Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 Mod Note Post #2331

bangkok

TheDoc wrote: »

I'm one who would hang off to see what he achieves, as if he achieves nothing he hasn't really done anything others havn't done before him at Spurs, and I don't see what would separate him from a host of candidates at that tier.

But it's hard not to be impressed with what has done thus far with Spurs, but there will need to be some end result for me to be totally convinced.

As a sidenote, I find it interesting that Rafa Benitez hasn't been linked anywhere or even spoken off. I like him as a coach. I assume the Liverpool puts him totally out of the running, but would have even thought when things for Van Gaal went horrid, I would have saw his name thrown up as an interim boss.

Valencia spoke with Rafa 2 weeks ago but he wasn't interested.

Pochettino would be a great choice imo, young, hungry, gives youth a chance, plays good football and most of all carries himself with a bit of respect

RobertKK

Canadel wrote: »

They could be offering him a pay cut and he'd still be crazy not to go. My comment about him and CBJ yesterday was half true, De Gea is too good to waste away his career any longer with this current manifestation of Man Utd.

I am sure Schmeichel was thinking that when we couldn't even beat Rotor Volgograd in 1995.

homerjay2005

M!Ck^ wrote: »

What exactly has Pochettino proven and won @ management level?

Spurs look good this year fine but I think some of you are jumping the gun in here. The season isn't even over yet.

ya i agree. ive stated here a few times how much i admire the way Spurs play, its exciting and like United were in the past but i think right now, Poch has alot to prove before getting the United job.

Mitch Connor

homerjay2005 wrote: »

ya i agree. ive stated here a few times how much i admire the way Spurs play, its exciting and like United were in the past but i think right now, Poch has alot to prove before getting the United job.

But until someone gives him a top job, how is he to prove. In most seasons, unless you are managing one of the traditional 'big four' in England you are very unlikely to win something.

Someone will take shot with him, be it United or Chelsea or one of the bigger foreign sides. He may fail, he might succeed - but until one of the big sides take a shot with him I don't think his lack of trophies should be held against him.

Liam McPoyle

RobertKK wrote: »

Guillem Ballague saying Neymar is leaving the door open for a move to United.

Ballague:
‘Barcelona cannot afford to give new contracts to Lionel Messi, Suarez and Neymar as it stands, financially they do not have the power to do so.’

‘They need to bring a lot of money in, if they do that they will be able to keep them, but if they don’t they may have to get rid of one.
‘That’s why Neymar keeps leaving the door open for United.’

---

But then Barcelona is up to their necks in debt and a sale of Neymar makes things much easier for the club.
This is a story that is going to rumble on and will blow up and happen, or go away like a volcano that had threatened to erupt but was just a lot of hot air.
I do think Woodward will be offering money to Neymar that he knows puts Barcelona under very severe pressure to match.

If, and a big if at that, Neymar leaves Barca he won't come anywhere near us, a blank cheque and Pep at City will be where he ends up.

bangkok

so now Busquets says he would be honoured to play under pep again...

Could easily see City sign Busquets, Neymar and Alaba next summer

Blatter

bangkok wrote: »

so now Busquets says he would be honoured to play under pep again...

Could easily see City sign Busquets, Neymar and Alaba next summer

Could easily see Bayern/Barca not selling. Easily.

Rayne Wooney

I think City will definitely sign a couple of world class players there's no way Pep would agree to manage them otherwise

bangkok

Blatter wrote: »

Could easily see Bayern/Barca not selling. Easily.

neither clubs can compete with City for transfer fee or wages. If City want Busquets and he is open to the move he will be sold. If Busquets is sold they will more than likely offer Neymar that new contract

bangkok

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I think City will definitely sign a couple of world class players there's no way Pep would agree to manage them otherwise

Apparently there is no transfer limit, if Pep wants a particular player, city will do all they can to sign him regardless of cost.

Yaya will be sold no doubt, wouldn't be surprised if Pogba and Busquets are both signed

jayo26

jayo26 wrote: »

Its not what he has won or proven its what he has done with Southampton and spurs he has taken two squads and coached the players and made them better and more consistent while also have laying a good brand of football and playing young players.

Its not a case that id prefer prefer pochetino over someone like jose or ancelloti but if we can't get a top manager that has won at the top level id have him because of his experience in the premier league over a manager that has no experience in the league.

RobertKK wrote: »

The main thing is the style of play is very good. He has the team very good defensively and has a balanced team.
He has a very calm demeanor and lacks controversy.
He doesn't appear to be a manager who lets things get to him, and for the United job that would be a very important thing.
He does look the genuine article as it doesn't appear he fluked it with Spurs.

He's a risk all the same.

The feeling I have been getting is the main reason Jose is wanted (not particularly by me) is that fans want Utd back at the top and winning trophies immediately and also to have the ability and experience to challenge Pep when he takes over at City.

Pochetino currently does not check these boxes.

bangkok

M!Ck^ wrote: »

He's a risk all the same.

The feeling I have been getting is the main reason Jose is wanted (not particularly by me) is that fans want Utd back at the top and winning trophies immediately and also to have the ability and experience to challenge Pep when he takes over at City.

Pochetino currently does not check these boxes.

Mourinho is also a risk, what if he comes in and straight away wants to get rid of Mata, Depay, Bastian, falls out with the media immediately, rants about the referees, starts next season terribly (like he did Chelsea this season)

no manager guarantees success

sky88

The one thing that would worry me with poch is that it seems to take a season under him to get his philosophy :pac: and playing style for southampton and spurs now. So if it was to be him i could think it might be another year of fighting for 4th.

bucketybuck

bangkok wrote: »

Mourinho is also a risk, what if he comes in and straight away wants to get rid of Mata, Depay, Bastian, falls out with the media immediately, rants about the referees,

Couldn't give a toss.

starts next season terribly (like he did Chelsea this season)

no manager guarantees success

What if he starts well and wins the league, like he did at every club he has managed?

Rayne Wooney

It'll be a couple of years placing in the top 4 with Pochettino, patience whilst City presumably win trophies

The risk is when he is ready to challenge whether he will be good enough to go the distance and have that trophy winning edge, some managers can be really good but just aren't winners.

You look at Bayern, Madrid and Barca appointments over the last 15 years they are usually the top managers in the game at the time. Us taking a risk on Moyes and taking another on Pochettino in the space of 4 years when we are in such a precarious situation must seem like madness from the outside looking in.

bangkok

bucketybuck wrote: »

Couldn't give a toss.

What if he starts well and wins the league, like he did at every club he has managed?

but the board do give a toss and that's why it is not straight forward. the manager represents the club and they don't want Mourinho damaging the reputation of the club.

Only go back to the start of this season, his treatment of the club doctor. Disgraceful

Mitch Connor

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

It'll be a couple of years placing in the top 4 with Pochettino, patience whilst City presumably win trophies

The risk is when he is ready to challenge whether he will be good enough to go the distance and have that trophy winning edge, some managers can be really good but just aren't winners.

You look at Bayern, Madrid and Barca appointments over the last 15 years they are usually the top managers in the game at the time. Us taking a risk on Moyes and taking another on Pochettino in the space of 4 years when we are in such a precarious situation must seem like madness from the outside looking in.

Barcelona:

Pep - B team manger.
Rijkard - Sparta Rotterdam manager, yeah - which year did he win the CL with them?
Enrique was doing ok, not pulling up trees.
Martino?
Vilanova?

Real Madrid:

Were Schuster, Ramos, Benitez, Zidane all at the very top level of managers when appointed?

Maximus Alexander

I was just messing around with stats as I like to do sometimes because I'm a nerd and I thought this was an interesting view of the season so far.

It doesn't tell us anything we don't already know, but viewed in this way I think the dip in form around December looks much more startling and pronounced.

Graph shows points per game averaged over the last 5 games, by game week.



Average has now returned to a level that would potentially be good enough for top 4.

bucketybuck

bangkok wrote: »

but the board do give a toss and that's why it is not straight forward. the manager represents the club and they don't want Mourinho damaging the reputation of the club.

Only go back to the start of this season, his treatment of the club doctor. Disgraceful

The board don't give a toss about Mata or Depay either, not beyond them being a means to an end. If Mourniho can make the club successful again the board won't care who the specific players are, not unless they are very elite players that can be marketed. If Mourniho wanted to replace Mata, Depay and Bastian with his own targets, then nobody will really care as long as he is winning.

Likewise the media, we currently have a manager who has managed to make the media extremely antagonistic, how could Mourinho be worse? Not that Mourinho falls out with the media anyway, they lap up the ****e he comes out with.

Rants about referees? Every manager moans about referees, thats a total non-issue.

Rayne Wooney

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Barcelona:

Pep - B team manger.
Rijkard - Sparta Rotterdam manager, yeah - which year did he win the CL with them?
Enrique was doing ok, not pulling up trees.
Martino?
Vilanova?

Real Madrid:

Were Schuster, Ramos, Benitez, Zidane all at the very top level of managers when appointed?

You're right Barca are a special case, having the best squad the managing does itself, it would be extremely difficult to mess it up at Barca

If we had the relative squad quality of Barca we could probably appoint Giggs

bangkok

bucketybuck wrote: »

The board don't give a toss about Mata or Depay either, not beyond them being a means to an end. If Mourniho can make the club successful again the board won't care who the specific players are, not unless they are very elite players that can be marketed. If Mourniho wanted to replace Mata, Depay and Bastian with his own targets, then nobody will really care as long as he is winning.

Likewise the media, we currently have a manager who has managed to make the media extremely antagonistic, how could Mourinho be worse? Not that Mourinho falls out with the media anyway, they lap up the ****e he comes out with.

Rants about referees? Every manager moans about referees, thats a total non-issue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo4HLLHFlYc

the board do care though how the manager is portraying the club.

And no, nobody has more rants against referees than mourinho. He thinks there is a conspiracy against him no matter where he goes. It is a very big issue for the club owners if a manager is constantly every week giving out about refs.

bangkok

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

You're right Barca are a special case, having the best squad the managing does itself, it would be extremely difficult to mess it up at Barca

If we had the relative squad quality of Barca we could probably appoint Giggs

van gaal did :pac:

bucketybuck

bangkok wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo4HLLHFlYc

the board do care though how the manager is portraying the club.

And? Thats not a response to anything I said.

And no, nobody has more rants against referees than mourinho. He thinks there is a conspiracy against him no matter where he goes. It is a very big issue for the club owners if a manager is constantly every week giving out about refs.

Nobody cares how many times Jose moans about refs.

Even if your point was correct (it isn't) and Jose was officially the biggest moaner about refs in football then we still wouldn't give a toss if he was winning games.

RobertKK

Business Cat wrote: »

If, and a big if at that, Neymar leaves Barca he won't come anywhere near us, a blank cheque and Pep at City will be where he ends up.

I don't know, the father talks about the Neymar brand as something akin to a family business.
Neymar Sr may see United being better for the Neymar brand due to the number of fans than Man City.
It has been claimed Neymar wants to be the main man, and step out of the shadow of Messi. United should be able to make mre money for the Neymar family, can't see Neymar being the top shirt sold if he moves to City.
At United it would drive sales and help him overtake Messi and Ronaldo. Then out of the shadow for the Ballon dor, with no Messi as a team mate. He can be well established before Martial hits peak.

That said in Spain they think he will go to Real Madrid, or at least they want him to go there. They would have to sell Ronaldo to fund it.

All that if he leaves...as Ballague said "The priority is to renew his contract with Barcelona but no option has been discounted."

bangkok

bucketybuck wrote: »

And? Thats not a response to anything I said.


Nobody cares how many times Jose moans about refs.

Even if your point was correct (it isn't) and Jose was officially the biggest moaner about refs in football then we still wouldn't give a toss if he was winning games.

you are going back to "we" again.

Its not the fans that decides who the next manager is, its the board and the way Mourinho carries on is making the board think about other options rather than mourinho as he brings so much negative press to the club which they don't want

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

you are going back to "we" again.

Its not the fans that decides who the next manager is, its the board and the way Mourinho carries on is making the board think about other options rather than mourinho as he brings so much negative press to the club which they don't want

How can you be so certain of this? Do you have knowledge of what goes on in board meetings?

bangkok

astradave wrote: »

How can you be so certain of this? Do you have knowledge of what goes on in board meetings?

“A United manager would not do that. He’s a really good coach but that’s as far as I would go really.” - Sir Bobby Charlton on Jose Mourinho, December 2012

"also they do not see him as someone with the top-to-bottom approach embraced by Ferguson they were nervous about his capacity to pick a fight"

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

“A United manager would not do that. He’s a really good coach but that’s as far as I would go really.” - Sir Bobby Charlton on Jose Mourinho, December 2012

That quote shows absolutely **** all in fairness.

Bobby Charlton is a non voting executive. He would have absolutely no say in who is appointed.

Any thing recent? From voting board members?

Edit: where's the other quote from? No source, nothing!

bangkok

astradave wrote: »

That quote shows absolutely **** all in fairness.

Bobby Charlton is a non voting executive. He would have absolutely no say in who is appointed.

Any thing recent? From voting board members?

so you think him or ferguson would have zero say on the next manager?? lol

they hold massive sway and have huge repect in the United boardroom.

if they wanted Mourinho he could have been manager when fergie left but they didn't want him.

also something recent, Mourinho the way he handled the club doctor was seen in a hugely negative light all over the country and hardly endeared himself to the united board

Blatter

bangkok wrote: »

neither clubs can compete with City for transfer fee or wages. If City want Busquets and he is open to the move he will be sold. If Busquets is sold they will more than likely offer Neymar that new contract

Bayern, Barca or Madrid very rarely part with their best players unless they want rid. Of course it could happen but it's not something that's easy to see.

adox

bangkok wrote: »

Mourinho is also a risk, what if he comes in and straight away wants to get rid of Mata, Depay, Bastian, falls out with the media immediately, rants about the referees, starts next season terribly (like he did Chelsea this season)

no manager guarantees success[

I really hate this sort of point. Sure everything in life is a risk. it doesnt mean you dont evaluate a situation and try to do what is best.

Mourhino is a risk, as is every other manager on the planet. He just happens to offer the least risk as far as success goes.

Too much whataboutery

bangkok

Blatter wrote: »

Bayern, Barca or Madrid very rarely part with their best players unless they want rid. Of course it could happen but it's not something that's easy to see.

Barca sold Sanchez

Bayern sold Kroos

Real sold di Maria, Ozil, Robben, alonso

sometimes the money on offer is too good to turn down or else the player wants the move

adox

bangkok wrote: »

Barca sold Sanchez

Bayern sold Kroos

Real sold di Maria, Ozil, Robben, alonso

sometimes the money on offer is too good to turn down or else the player wants the move

Kroos is the only one on that list you can make a case for really, if my memory serves me right.

bucketybuck

bangkok wrote: »

you are going back to "we" again.

Its not the fans that decides who the next manager is, its the board and the way Mourinho carries on is making the board think about other options rather than mourinho as he brings so much negative press to the club which they don't want

You still are not responding to the original point. From post 7713.

Mata, Depay, Bastian, media and referees, and then a bad start to the season, remember?

Polo_Mint

bangkok wrote: »

Barca sold Sanchez

Bayern sold Kroos

Real sold di Maria, Ozil, Robben, alonso

sometimes the money on offer is too good to turn down or else the player wants the move

All clubs will sell players not for the right price but overprice.

As has been proved many times now, There is no point in buying a player at any price if the player does not want to play for the club in question.

Pro. F

I'd be happy with Pochettino being appointed. He's far from as sure a thing as Mourinho, but he has a much better character and that's important to me. Bobby Charlton has said he thinks that how a manager conducts himself is important for United and I would hope that the board still give his opinion the respect it deserves.

With regards to the idea that we have to hire Mourinho because we have to improve our chances of winning as much as possible, I don't see it that way. Success will come and go over the long run, and while we're the third strongest team financially in the league we'll generally be behind the other two in terms of success and players that can be signed.

Even if we had Mourinho for a successful three year stint, it wouldn't change the long term prospects of the club. We'd still be the third strongest team in terms of finances and the benefit to the next manager of following a short period of success would be negligible.

bangkok

bucketybuck wrote: »

You still are not responding to the original point. From post 7713.

Mata, Depay, Bastian, media and referees, and then a bad start to the season, remember?

You think the board also don't care about players? Depay cost 27m or whatever, he is still young and the club would like him to succeed. if mourinho came in and wanted him gone, how much do you reckon we would get for him now? At least a 10m loss minimum, do you think the board would be happy with that? no they would not

Blatter

bangkok wrote: »

Barca sold Sanchez

Bayern sold Kroos

Real sold di Maria, Ozil, Robben, alonso

sometimes the money on offer is too good to turn down or else the player wants the move

Yeah pretty much none of the players you mentioned there are good comparisons to the names you suggested City could easily get in the Summer. You mentioned a pile of players that Real/Barca were actively trying to sell/not cast iron first team players.

Kroos is an exception and even he had Bayern over a barrel as he was in the final year of his contract.

Pro. F

Giggsy11 wrote: »

But when his team consistently scores most goals in the league it's hard to say he is defensive coach.

Yeah in big games he sets up very defensively which is something I don't like but one positive is at least 30-32 league games will be played with attacking intent.

Sorry to take so long to reply to this.

I know it might seem daft, but I'm of the opinion that when you have one of the dominant clubs in a league you can play relatively conservatively and still be up there amongst the leading scorers. As long as you don't completely sit on a lead, when playing against the minnows, you can score one and then pick up a few more on the counter.

I'll give you Madrid though. He had them more attacking all right, but I think his hand was more forced there.

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Hopefully we don't watch his classic meltdown very early in his ManUtd career if he joins United.

Tbf to him, the set-up at United is likely to be much more manager friendly than it was at his previous clubs, so there might be a chance that he would finally settle down a bit.

Blatter

Pro. F wrote: »

I'd be happy with Pochettino being appointed. He's far from as sure a thing as Mourinho, but he has a much better character and that's important to me. Bobby Charlton has said he thinks that how a manager conducts himself is important for United and I would hope that the board still give his opinion the respect it deserves.

With regards to the idea that we have to hire Mourinho because we have to improve our chances of winning as much as possible, I don't see it that way. Success will come and go over the long run, and while we're the third strongest team financially in the league we'll generally be behind the other two in terms of success and players that can be signed.

Even if we had Mourinho for a successful three year stint, it wouldn't change the long term prospects of the club. We'd still be the third strongest team in terms of finances and the benefit to the next manager of following a short period of success would be negligible.

I would say 2nd strongest financially. Abramovich hasn't put his own money into the club for a long time at this stage. They seem to be operating in line with their revenues (which are still a good bit lower than ours)

City have the potential to be the clear frontrunners but I still don't know how the current iteration of FFP could affect things. I know the rules have been relaxed but to what extent I'm not sure. Is it confirmed that they can spend how much they want now?

Rayne Wooney

Pro. F wrote: »

I'd be happy with Pochettino being appointed. He's far from as sure a thing as Mourinho, but he has a much better character and that's important to me. Bobby Charlton has said he thinks that how a manager conducts himself is important for United and I would hope that the board still give his opinion the respect it deserves.

With regards to the idea that we have to hire Mourinho because we have to improve our chances of winning as much as possible, I don't see it that way. Success will come and go over the long run, and while we're the third strongest team financially in the league we'll generally be behind the other two in terms of success and players that can be signed.

Even if we had Mourinho for a successful three year stint, it wouldn't change the long term prospects of the club. We'd still be the third strongest team in terms of finances and the benefit to the next manager of following a short period of success would be negligible.

I don't see how it could be negligible, if Mourinho comes in and wins a couple of league titles or trophies which history says he would does that not make us more attractive to potential signings than we are if we don't?

Players these days are swayed one way or the other by recent success not something that happened 5 years ago, a player that wants to win trophies picks City over us right now, but if Mourinho has a successful three year stint then the next manager in has a better chance of signing these players. It's not like City eclipse us in wages, a lot of their players are on suprisingly low wages and we still have a higher wage bill.

beno619

StringerBell wrote: »

I hope CBJ bulks up a bit over the next 12 months, may have the making of a good centre back in there but he looks a little light weight at the moment even though he did deal very well with Walters who is one of the most physical players in the league

I think I remeber hearing he was a CB when he made his debut ?

Can anyone who watches the U-21's confirm ?

Rossi IRL

beno619 wrote: »

StringerBell wrote: »

I hope CBJ bulks up a bit over the next 12 months, may have the making of a good centre back in there but he looks a little light weight at the moment even though he did deal very well with Walters who is one of the most physical players in the league

I think I remeber hearing he was a CB when he made his debut ?

Can anyone who watches the U-21's confirm ?

Im nearly sure he was a centre back but he could also play at left back if needed

Lord TSC

2 years ago today...

Manutd_4life

^^^^ Terrible memories. This thread went nuts after that game

Hococop

It was my turning point on Moyes

Vic Vinegar

Moyes celebrating like we had won the league was hella cringey.....

Shudder.

RobertKK

https://twitter.com/PhilJones4/status/695922644877778944/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

Phil getting a lot of criticism for using the Munich air disaster as a means to promote himself.

jayo26

Vic Vinegar wrote: »

Moyes celebrating like we had won the league was hella cringey.....

Shudder.

bangkok

RobertKK wrote: »

https://twitter.com/PhilJones4/status/695922644877778944/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

Phil getting a lot of criticism for using the Munich air disaster as a means to promote himself.

He wouldn't be the sharpest knife in the drawer