Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 Mod Note Post #2331

Kerrydude1981

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Jose has told his closest friends he will be taking the United job. His closest friends run off and tell the papers? Is that how this is supposed to have happened?

Jose must have used "this is between you and me the four walls" line

The walls talked

Mitch Connor

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Jose has told his closest friends he will be taking the United job. His closest friends run off and tell the papers? Is that how this is supposed to have happened?

Close friend doesn't always mean close friend.

It can be, and is, used to describe pretty much anyone that doesn't want to go on record giving their name. Hell, it could be Jose himself that has said this.

This is how media works, and not just in football. In politics as well, a close friend could be anyone.

The press write the story they are given, with agreement of the source on how it will be written.

Mitch Connor

Ordinary man wrote: »

Maybe getting jose has all been agreed and lvg knows it but he doesn't want it public yet. A lot of people have said that the timing of pep to city has undermined pellegrinis job and could affect the players. There is still a chance of a trophy this season and lvg needs the players fully focused on that

a lot of people have said the Pep announcement was made with the agreement and full support of Pellegrini, who was more than happy to confirm to big clubs around the world that he is on the look out for a job.

StringerBell

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Jose has told his closest friends he will be taking the United job. His closest friends run off and tell the papers? Is that how this is supposed to have happened?

Yes, I believe he gathered around 600 of his closest confidants and announced it Wolf or Wall Street style, trusting of course that they would use their discretion in the matter but sadly it appears he has been let down and someone in the group called numerous papers in a couple of different countries to let them know what happened. Sadly it appears Jose even after all these years in managements has not chosen his confidants wisely

I do believe he has a good idea who ran to the media though, another of his closest friends who was there at the time has been on my facebook messenger to tell me that he is confident who the leak is and will no longer be inviting him to Sunday brunch.

StringerBell

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Close friend doesn't always mean close friend.

It can be, and is, used to describe pretty much anyone that doesn't want to go on record giving their name. Hell, it could be Jose himself that has said this.

This is how media works, and not just in football. In politics as well, a close friend could be anyone.

The press write the story they are given, with agreement of the source on how it will be written.

My money is on Mendes briefing and playing the game.

Mitch Connor

StringerBell wrote: »

My money is on Mendes briefing and playing the game.

I wouldn't bet against that.

See, also, Fergie coming out and praising Poch in the papers today too.

People are playing games - Woodward, Jose, Mendes, Fergie. I think there are elements of truth to it all. Different people, at different levels at United, want different people to be the next manager, and what we are seeing in the press is people trying to put their guy in pole position for the job.

The press are loving it, of course, but they aren't the ones making these stories up.

bucketybuck

StringerBell wrote: »

Do you think they might be ok with pissing him off though? Putting him under pressure to see what kind of reaction they can get from him at the next press conference?

Is that as funny, less funny, or more funny?

Thats what happens when you don't cultivate relations with the press, you reap what you sow so no point him getting pissy and moany about it now.

StringerBell

bucketybuck wrote: »

Thats what happens when you don't cultivate relations with the press, you reap what you sow so no point him getting pissy and moany about it now.

The press go for your blood regardless of what you do with them tbh, I don't mind his approach to them any more then I minded Fergies, or any other manager really. They can deal with them as they see fit and they can counter stories they see run in the press however they fit in my eyes also, one mans pissy and moany is another mans firm and dismissive

It doesn't alter the point from the post you quoted either way you look at it anyway.

My initial point is not actually that the press would be making things up specifically, but that they would be more then happy to spin one side, to publicise one side and paint a picture one way rather then the other

StringerBell

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I wouldn't bet against that.

See, also, Fergie coming out and praising Poch in the papers today too.

People are playing games - Woodward, Jose, Mendes, Fergie. I think there are elements of truth to it all. Different people, at different levels at United, want different people to be the next manager, and what we are seeing in the press is people trying to put their guy in pole position for the job.

The press are loving it, of course, but they aren't the ones making these stories up.

Didn't see the Fergie comments today, but he does love to praise an up and coming manager so not surprising. I agree the press are not outright making things up, I think they are just happier to paint the story in one way more then the other.

As with all rumour, it is best to not bet your life on it and just let it play out.

bangkok

so disrespectful to van gaal all these rumours going around, must also be very distracting for the players

Trigger

In fairness the Fergie quotes about Poch are coming from an MP for Tottenham, who said that he met him 6 weeks ago at a dinner for grassroots and Fergie remarked "I think you guys have the best manager in the league atm"

Really don't think there is anything in that at all.

StringerBell

bangkok wrote: »

so disrespectful to van gaal all these rumours going around, must also be very distracting for the players

That is the only concern for me, I don't think it will affect Van Gaal, I just hope the players can be forcused to and no destabilised by the constant ****e. Of course its disrespectful but that comes a distant second to my concern

Toobz

bangkok wrote: »

so disrespectful to van gaal all these rumours going around, must also be very distracting for the players

It seems to have given van gaal the kick up the h*le he needed to play free flowing attacking football. Long may the rumours do the rounds!

Gone Drinking

Meh, LVG isn't right for United. Giggs isn't experienced enough and wouldn't want to see him get it either (he should have went to the Swansea job, realistically).

I don't want to see Mourinihos style of football at United either. I certainly don't want to see the way he handles youth at United but we need someone who can win and get us back in the run for trophys.

I'd take him in the short term, on a two year contract. When someone better is available for the long term, in a season or two, grab them!

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

so disrespectful to van gaal all these rumours going around, must also be very distracting for the players

I think it's even more disrespectful for a manager to totally destroy a teams style and spend 18 months to build a team and still not have them much better off then where they were when he took over and not show one bit of passion to get them playing better.

Only part of lvg I have enjoyed is how he manages the media anything else has been a let down.

StringerBell

StringerBell wrote: »

So was the Van Gaal is sacked stuff at Christmas, the two games **** after that and in fact Jose was already in at one point

Don't buy in to the bull****, whatever will happen will happen. The media are now very obviously in a campaign to heap as much pressure on, and piss off Van Gaal.

The only negative I can see from it (as I am sure Van Gaal won't be affected very much) is if it begins to unsettle the players which is the last thing we can afford now. They need to be focused and stuck to task

Fair point, I wouldn't want it to have a negative impact for the season run in either. If Jose is to take over in the summer getting into the CL is top priority.

Unhappy Man Utd fans

Press

Lvg has 2 games : no oops
LVG offered his resigation : no oops
Mourihino lined up for summer : sure why not

bucketybuck

jayo26 wrote: »

I think it's even more disrespectful for a manager to totally destroy a teams style and spend 18 months to build a team and still not have them much better off then where they were when he took over and not show one bit of passion to get them playing better.

When people are looking at the famous Moyes v Fulham result and considering that maybe it wasn't so bad, and "at least we had shots on target", it really puts into perspective the depths Van Gaal has brought this team and the levels of expectation down to.

Con-Call for Ed tomorrow with the investors from what I read also....

Discodog

The good thing about the "leaks" is, if they are true, it might force the club to do a City. To there credit City handled it professionally & stopped all the rumours.

If the Club announced Jose it would take the pressure off LvG. Personally I find his handling of the press naive & petty. If we were first or second & playing good football then he can be arrogant. The pathetic moaning about press lies does neither him nor the image of the club any favours.

We are struggling to finish fourth which is worse than last year. On that basis alone the Club will remove him.

I disagree that the player effort would drop. Everyone would be wanting to impress the new manager.

Discodog

Discodog wrote: »

The good thing about the "leaks" is, if they are true, it might force the club to do a City. To there credit City handled it professionally & stopped all the rumours.

If the Club announced Jose it would take the pressure off LvG. Personally I find his handling of the press naive & petty. If we were first or second & playing good football then he can be arrogant. The pathetic moaning about press lies does neither him nor the image of the club any favours.

We are struggling to finish fourth which is worse than last year. On that basis alone the Club will remove him.

I disagree that the player effort would drop. Everyone would be wanting to impress the new manager.

City were thumped by Leicester after Pep was announced...Just saying :P

Also, tbf to LVG if he's consistently being asked questions stating Jose is taking over then he's bound to have a pop at the media.

Mitch Connor

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Con-Call for Ed tomorrow with the investors from what I read also....

Yep - standard for discussion of company result. Nothing out of the ordinary with it.

Wouldn't expect much from it from a footballing perspective. it will mostly be about the financials. Someone might ask about expected transfer spend, which won't be answered.

However, giventhe performances on the pitch look VERY likely to cost us the CL, and the related money, I expect there will be some questions around that - including the massive drop in share price of late.

Can't imagine Woodward will want to actually comment on the managerial situation though, nothing good could come of it. I do wonder how Woodward is going to fob off flagging share value and poor performances.

bangkok

if Mourinho comes ye can forget about youth team players, ye can forget about a good scouting system and ye can forget about playing good football.

would Jesse Lingard or Borthwick-Jackson have been given their chance under mourinho?? No chance

bucketybuck

bangkok wrote: »

would Jesse Lingard or Borthwick-Jackson have been given their chance under mourinho?? No chance

If you mean that Jose would have had adequate squad numbers and enough senior players for a full PL and european season then I agree.

If you think that it is a good thing that Jesse Lingard has 19 first team appearances this season then I would disagree, and would suggest that relying on players of that level contributes to the position the club currently finds itself in.

StringerBell

Jose likes a small squad too.

bangkok

bucketybuck wrote: »

If you mean that Jose would have had adequate squad numbers and enough senior players for a full PL and european season then I agree.

If you think that it is a good thing that Jesse Lingard has 19 first team appearances this season then I would disagree, and would suggest that relying on players of that level contributes to the position the club currently finds itself in.

jose likes small squads as well.

Lingard is getting better with every game he plays , gaining more confidence and Borthwick-Jackson seems to be a real gem of a find who has taken his opportunity with both hands

bangkok

a few good points that have been made on here already why united would be mad to hire mourinho

1) Style of play flies in face of traditions
If United hire Mourinho they can once and for all leave aside any holier than thou notion of having a footballing ‘philosphy’ based on buccaneering attacking play.

The arch-pragmatist Mourinho is unashamedly results driven, and given his stubbornness he is hardly likely to compromise that because of a respect for the club’s history.


The reality is that supporters will care little as long as the team is winning, but if they are not, Mourinho’s style will simply make any simmering fan unrest boil over. Just look at their attitude to Van Gaal.

2) No regard for developing the kids

Supposedly one of the key tenets of the United ‘philosophy’ is an emphasis on bringing through young players.


From the Busby Babes to the Class of 92, and even to today’s team with the likes of Cameron Borthwick-Jackson and Jesse Lingard, the club has put a premium on seeing home-grown talent given its chance.

So far in his career, Jose Mourinho has put little to no importance on youth development, and in his two spells at Chelsea not a single player graduated from the academy to the first team.


If United have any interest in retaining this fundamental part of their identity, then hiring Mourinho would be a disastrous move.

3) No dynasty

Another major ideological conflict between Mourinho and United is the importance of dynasty at Old Trafford.


The decades-long reigns of Matt Busby and Alex Ferguson remain the gold standard at United, and the club claims to long for a return to those eras.

Such a long-term legacy though has been the one glaring omission from Mourinho’s CV, with three seasons the longest he has spent at one club.


At Chelsea, as with at Real previously, results dipped dramatically in Mourinho’s third season, with players having fallen out of love with their coach.

United would effectively be waving goodbye to any notion of long-term stability and legacy by hiring the ‘Special One’.

4) The PR damage

From a public relations perspective, employing Mourinho could be catastrophic, especially with Pep Guardiola taking over at Manchester City.

Mourinho is almost universally disliked by neutrals, especially when placed next to the comparatively saintly Guardiola.


In a world where winning hearts and minds in far-flung countries is almost as important as results on the pitch, United would be scoring a massive PR own goal by appointing the former Chelsea manager.

5) The financial cost


It’s probably naïve to think that any Premier League club could be constrained by a concern as piddling as money, but Mourinho’s astronomical wages are surely worth considering.

Mourinho’s annual salary at Chelsea was believed to be around £10million, which although probably the going rate for an elite-level manager, is still a monumental amount of money. It would feel even more monumental if paid as one lump sum as a pay-off should Mourinho fail and have to be sacked.

In a season where the likes of Mauricio Pochettino and Claudio Ranieri have excelled on much smaller salaries, United might want to consider hiring their next manager based on something other than hurling as much money as possible at the problem.


This is also known as the England Capello doctrine.

6) No guarantee of success


A major assumption with Mourinho is that yes he is high maintenance and can bring bad press, but his results justify the means.

The last few years though suggest Jose is no longer such a winning machine.

Before Mourinho was sacked by Chelsea this season, results were not just bad, they were atrocious.


Clearly there was much going on behind the scenes that suggest the sequence can be dismissed as a one-off, but the potential for such an implosion must worry the United hierarchy.

The failure at Real Madrid to overhaul a transitional Barcelona is also evidence that hiring Mourinho is no guarantee of success.

bucketybuck

bangkok wrote: »

jose likes small squads as well.

Lingard is getting better with every game he plays , gaining more confidence and Borthwick-Jackson seems to be a real gem of a find who has taken his opportunity with both hands

In my opinion Lingard is yet another good but not great player that wouldn't make it at a club really serious about winning trophies. He will have good games and pop up with the odd goal here and there but will never be an elite player, I look at him and see another Cleverley or an Ashley Young, they can reach a certain level but won't ever bring us onto the heights we want to reach.

He is 3 years older than Martial but the difference is already night and day, and it doesn't really help us to have another Cleverley situation, giving him gametime for 3/4 seasons hoping that if we stick with him he will magically transform from a good player into a great player. Even with Depays horrendous form I would still believe he has a higher ceiling than Lingard does, its simply a matter of quality.

I like giving young players a chance to develop but with Lingard lets face it, he isn't going to be a world beater and there isn't a top team out there that would give him 20 games a season.

Vic Vinegar

bangkok wrote: »

Post

Where did you copy and paste that from?

bangkok

Vic Vinegar wrote: »

Where did you copy and paste that from?

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/manchester-united/man-united-would-be-mad-to-hire-jose-mourinho-as-manager-heres-six-reasons-why-34440528.html

RobertKK

bucketybuck wrote: »

In my opinion Lingard is yet another good but not great player that wouldn't make it at a club really serious about winning trophies. He will have good games and pop up with the odd goal here and there but will never be an elite player, I look at him and see another Cleverley or an Ashley Young, they can reach a certain level but won't ever bring us onto the heights we want to reach.

He is 3 years older than Martial but the difference is already night and day, and it doesn't really help us to have another Cleverley situation, giving him gametime for 3/4 seasons hoping that if we stick with him he will magically transform from a good player into a great player. Even with Depays horrendous form I would still believe he has a higher ceiling than Lingard does, its simply a matter of quality.

I like giving young players a chance to develop but with Lingard lets face it, he isn't going to be a world beater and there isn't a top team out there that would give him 20 games a season.

Lingard is a top squad player to have, he has goals in him and not a bad option if another player needed a rest or got injured.

No he won't be a winger in the running for a Ballon Dor.
Given the form of Memphis we are lucky to have him.

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

In my opinion Lingard is yet another good but not great player that wouldn't make it at a club really serious about winning trophies. He will have good games and pop up with the odd goal here and there but will never be an elite player, I look at him and see another Cleverley or an Ashley Young, they can reach a certain level but won't ever bring us onto the heights we want to reach.

He is 3 years older than Martial but the difference is already night and day, and it doesn't really help us to have another Cleverley situation, giving him gametime for 3/4 seasons hoping that if we stick with him he will magically transform from a good player into a great player. Even with Depays horrendous form I would still believe he has a higher ceiling than Lingard does, its simply a matter of quality.

I like giving young players a chance to develop but with Lingard lets face it, he isn't going to be a world beater and there isn't a top team out there that would give him 20 games a season.

Your moving the goalposts to debate about Lingards quality.
It sounds to me like he's actually debating the fact Jose won't give youth a chance and there is strong evidence to support this. He just happened to use CBJ & Lingard as an example of this.

bangkok

bucketybuck wrote: »

In my opinion Lingard is yet another good but not great player that wouldn't make it at a club really serious about winning trophies. He will have good games and pop up with the odd goal here and there but will never be an elite player, I look at him and see another Cleverley or an Ashley Young, they can reach a certain level but won't ever bring us onto the heights we want to reach.

He is 3 years older than Martial but the difference is already night and day, and it doesn't really help us to have another Cleverley situation, giving him gametime for 3/4 seasons hoping that if we stick with him he will magically transform from a good player into a great player. Even with Depays horrendous form I would still believe he has a higher ceiling than Lingard does, its simply a matter of quality.

I like giving young players a chance to develop but with Lingard lets face it, he isn't going to be a world beater and there isn't a top team out there that would give him 20 games a season.

He doesn't have to be a world beater, he is a good squad player who is a good option for us but probably wont be on the team next season if we get our transfer targets.

Leicester City are favourites for the premier league title and 13 points clear of us with Danny Drinkwater, Danny Simpson and Robert Huth in their team. Just goes to prove where hard work can get you. Depay should take a look at a few Leicester games and then take a long hard look at himself

bucketybuck

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Your moving the goalposts to debate about Lingards quality.
It sounds to me like he's actually debating the fact Jose won't give youth a chance and there is strong deviance to support this. He just happened to use CBJ & Lingard as an example of this.

I'm not moving any goalposts, I simply took the opportunity to offer an opinion on Lingard.

Pro. F

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I wouldn't bet against that.

See, also, Fergie coming out and praising Poch in the papers today too.

People are playing games - Woodward, Jose, Mendes, Fergie. I think there are elements of truth to it all. Different people, at different levels at United, want different people to be the next manager, and what we are seeing in the press is people trying to put their guy in pole position for the job.

The press are loving it, of course, but they aren't the ones making these stories up.

You take a simple theory (Mendes briefing the press for his man's benefit) and then add complication (disagreement at United on the next manager and jockeying for advantage through the press) in order to fit into your theory of power struggles. Your theories about what's going on behind the scenes at United are nearly always built on shoddy logic.

bucketybuck

bangkok wrote: »

He doesn't have to be a world beater, he is a good squad player who is a good option for us but probably wont be on the team next season if we get our transfer targets.

Leicester City are favourites for the premier league title and 13 points clear of us with Danny Drinkwater, Danny Simpson and Robert Huth in their team. Just goes to prove where hard work can get you. Depay should take a look at a few Leicester games and then take a long hard look at himself

To me it shows where a good manager can get you...

On that point though, I was listening to Off the ball while driving last night and they reported on a list of the top ten players in the PL by distance covered. No Leicester players were in the top ten and the club itself were surprisingly midtable in combined figures. Its more than hard work that has Leicester where they are.

bangkok

bucketybuck wrote: »

To me it shows where a good manager can get you...

On that point though, I was listening to Off the ball while driving last night and they reported on a list of the top ten players in the PL by distance covered. No Leicester players were in the top ten and the club itself were surprisingly midtable in combined figures. Its more than hard work that has Leicester where they are.

that is a silly stat anyway, you could jog around the field for 90 mins doing feck all and you have the top stat for distance covered.

By working hard I mean sprinting 10 yards or whatever to press the ball and then sprinting the first 10 yards to get away from you man when ye have the ball.

I think Ozil last season was one of the top for distance covered during games!!

Pro. F

bucketybuck wrote: »

To me it shows where a good manager can get you...

On that point though, I was listening to Off the ball while driving last night and they reported on a list of the top ten players in the PL by distance covered. No Leicester players were in the top ten and the club itself were surprisingly midtable in combined figures. Its more than hard work that has Leicester where they are.

Distance covered doesn't tell you anything about workrate in football. Number and intensity of sprints is very useful, but even that has its limitations. Leicester are the fittest and hardest working team in the league imo, but there's no stat evidence (edit: publicly available) to prove the case either way.

Rayne Wooney

I don't see why the club wouldn't tell Mourinho to keep it quiet until June to keep Van Gaal on side

It would seem as if there isn't an approach for Mourinho yet and Mendes is trying to put pressure on the club

Mitch Connor

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I don't see why the club wouldn't tell Mourinho to keep it quiet until June to keep Van Gaal on side

It would seem as if there isn't an approach for Mourinho yet and Mendes is trying to put pressure on the club

It was stated in the press that United met Pep in Paris. The very next day United were strong and public in their denial.

It has been stated for a wee or so that United are in talks with Mourinho and even close to agreeing on a deal for him to take over.

NOT. A. PEEP from United.

Their silence is speaking volumes, imo.

Julez

Mitch Connor wrote: »

It was stated in the press that United met Pep in Paris. The very next day United were strong and public in their denial.

It has been stated for a wee or so that United are in talks with Mourinho and even close to agreeing on a deal for him to take over.

NOT. A. PEEP from United.

Their silence is speaking volumes, imo.

A good point, but on the other hand, if United knew that Pep was off to City, they definitely would want to distance themselves from that so that they don't appear second best to City.

Flint Fredstone

Mitch Connor wrote: »

It was stated in the press that United met Pep in Paris. The very next day United were strong and public in their denial.

It has been stated for a wee or so that United are in talks with Mourinho and even close to agreeing on a deal for him to take over.

NOT. A. PEEP from United.

Their silence is speaking volumes, imo.

Just because they denied one instance does not mean there is substance to another if they don't deny it.

Mitch Connor

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Just because they denied one instance does not mean there is substance to another if they don't deny it.

Correct - it could mean nothing.

But in my personal opinion - making no comment on the situation in the last week or so indicates there is something happening. There is no need for such silence unless they don't want to be seen to be lying about it later down the road.

Lord TSC

DiMarzio asked about Jose on Twitter an hour ago...

https://twitter.com/DiMarzio/status/697410752513208320

i just told few days ago, i know he'll be the next manager

Trigger

Lord TSC wrote: »

DiMarzio asked about Jose on Twitter an hour ago...

https://twitter.com/DiMarzio/status/697410752513208320

i just told few days ago, i know he'll be the next manager

DiMarzio isn't one to put his name on the line saying something so certainly.

Cantona's Collars

Mitch Connor wrote: »

It was stated in the press that United met Pep in Paris. The very next day United were strong and public in their denial.

It has been stated for a wee or so that United are in talks with Mourinho and even close to agreeing on a deal for him to take over.

NOT. A. PEEP from United.

Their silence is speaking volumes, imo.

I reckon it's Mendes rather than Jose going public,we all know Mendes and how he works,he's spinning plates at the moment and making sure that when they fall,he'll benefit.We can be fairly sure that a few more of his clients will come along with Jose.
The presser on Friday will be interesting as all the journos will want to talk about one thing (or person).

Mitch Connor

zerks wrote: »

I reckon it's Mendes rather than Jose going public,we all know Mendes and how he works,he's spinning plates at the moment and making sure that when they fall,he'll benefit.We can be fairly sure that a few more of his clients will come along with Jose.
The presser on Friday will be interesting as all the journos will want to talk about one thing (or person).

Football365 reckon this 'done deal' talk is coming from Harry Redknap, not Mendes.

Fenix

Surely not, sure he cant even read.

Coat22

zerks wrote: »

I reckon it's Mendes rather than Jose going public,we all know Mendes and how he works,he's spinning plates at the moment and making sure that when they fall,he'll benefit.We can be fairly sure that a few more of his clients will come along with Jose.
The presser on Friday will be interesting as all the journos will want to talk about one thing (or person).

Agreed - but for it to work for Mendes, he needs Jose to go to a club which will then be able to afford to buy and pay his other clients. Jose at Madrid / Chelsea was a dream combination for Mendes. There are few clubs with that might.

I'd say Mendes is working his hole off to make this happen at United. Whether that means it will or not is anybodys guess but he normally gets what he wants in the end

bangkok

Mendes has massive fish to fry now in china, he is behind most of them deals to bring all the players to china

http://www.gettyimages.ie/detail/news-photo/guo-guangchang-chairman-of-fosun-group-attends-gestifute-news-photo/505484342

he has a link up with one of his companies and a company in china. $$$$$$$$$