Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 Mod Note Post #2331

bangkok

StringerBell wrote: »

Even when he contradicted himself? Its pretty impossible for him to be spot on that Rooney was finished, while also being spot on that Rooney was world class.

he never said he was finished, ever, he said he couldn't go running in games like he used to and he needed to pick his moments in games. he also said "there is no doubt he is still a big threat in this team and he is a player that has to play"

that's hardly saying he is finished

StringerBell

A bit that stood out for me, and often gets lost I feel is how Van Gaal does what all the top managers do and makes sure the media focus on him personally rather then attack his players , but he is clear that it is not something he enjoys, it is something he see's as part of his job

“I am used to a lot of criticism,” he says. “My performances in the media are also provocative, but I have had to cope with the criticism from the first time I was a coach. For me, it is not any more stress or bother to have to deal with it.

“That is because, with the way I speak, my players are always protected. It is always against Louis van Gaal, it is never against my players, so that is a benefit of how I talk in the media.

“But do I enjoy it? No, because I am annoyed. I am very annoyed and there are a lot of people who know me who know that I am an honest guy and I will defend the good things and attack the wrong things. Of course, the Glazers are disappointed. Ed Woodward is disappointed and I am also disappointed because we are now further away from the top.

I quite liked the interview actually. Some good points made (not excusing the under performing obviously)

Did the interview last week with Smalling get an airing here actually?

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/chris-smalling-interview-louis-van-gaal-is-receptive-to-other-people-s-ideas-at-manchester-united-a6858151.html

Some points

“He made it clear when he came in that he had a certain philosophy but, as time has gone on, we have all developed better relationships with him. He encourages us to talk. We have accepted his philosophy and, in return, he has accepted some of our views as well.”

“It’s nice that he’s made me captain and it’s a responsibility I like. It gives you an edge to set a standard others can follow.

“Van Gaal is receptive to other people’s ideas. Obviously, he has his own philosophy and the way he wants to work, but he has been willing to listen and not just to us three. Others have also pitched in with their suggestions and that’s how we can have a much better relationship going forward.”

On Giggs

“He has the qualities to be a great coach,” said Smalling. “The manager gives him a lot of responsibility when analysing the opposition and doing his team meetings. Quite often, when we are training 11 v 11, he will take one of the teams.”

Giggs has a temper, albeit one Sir Alex Ferguson described as slow burning, but does he possess the ruthlessness a manager requires? “Oh, he is nasty enough and he has shown that in training,” said Smalling. “If we are playing and he’s not happy, he’ll let everyone know about it.”

On himself

One aspect of Smalling’s game Van Gaal has encouraged is for him to carry the ball with him out of defence more than he once did. On Tuesday night, as he pushed deeper into Stoke’s half, there was a cry of: “Don’t get a nosebleed” from the crowd.

“Since Louis van Gaal has come in, I’ve pretty much always been fit,” he said. “That has been the key factor. A lot more emphasis has been put on defenders under Van Gaal than under other managers, so there’s been a lot more emphasis on bringing the ball out of defence.”

Interestingly, he calls his manager by his name, rather than “boss”, another sign relationships are not as distant as they might seem.

StringerBell

bangkok wrote: »

he never said he was finished, ever, he said he couldn't go running in games like he used to and he needed to pick his moments in games. he also said "there is no doubt he is still a big threat in this team and he is a player that has to play"

that's hardly saying he is finished

Finished was the easy option, I should have said he has been saying Rooney is past his best, and on a downward slide, may even retire in a couple of years. Certainly more critical then your powder puff interpretation where all he was ever saying was he couldn't go running games anymore.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2636671/Paul-Scholes-fears-Wayne-Rooney-past-best-Manchester-United-legend-questions-England-balls-drop-star-striker.html

Questions Rooney (in 2014!), also questions whether Moyes was given enough time, thinks he is a world class manager and blames the players.

'Wayne’s peak may have been a lot younger than what we’d expect of footballers traditionally. Age 28 or 29 has been the normal "peak". With Wayne, it could have been when he scored 27 league goals in 2011-12 when he 26.

Paul Scholes has claimed his former Manchester United team-mate Wayne Rooney could be worn out at 28 years of age and has questioned whether England manager Roy Hodgson has the “balls” to drop the striker

“Wayne was in the Everton team at 16 years of age,” said Scholes, who retired for the second time last year. “Since then he’s played at Euro 2004, two World Cups, Premier League and Champions League every year at United. There’s a chance he’s worn out.

Scholes even received a backlash from people (eg Keane) defending Rooney from his comments that he may be finished/past his best (i.e. finished at the highest level)

bangkok

StringerBell wrote: »

Finished was the easy option, I should have said he has been saying Rooney is past his best, and on a downward slide, may even retire in a couple of years. Certainly more critical then your powder puff interpretation where all he was ever saying was he couldn't go running games anymore.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2636671/Paul-Scholes-fears-Wayne-Rooney-past-best-Manchester-United-legend-questions-England-balls-drop-star-striker.html

Questions Rooney (in 2014!), also questions whether Moyes was given enough time, thinks he is a world class manager and blames the players.








Scholes even received a backlash from people (eg Keane) defending Rooney from his comments that he may be finished/past his best (i.e. finished at the highest level)

I would agree he is past his best, but he is still one of our best players, he also said he would still be in the team and playing midfield would be no problem to him.

Ronaldo has also reached his peak, doesn't automatically mean he is a bad player. when you reach a certain age, your body can no longer do what you want it to do. Class will always remain, your body wont

homerjay2005

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I did like the way he said Rooney was finished

do you have a video/link where he said Rooney was finished?

when everybody else was finishing Rooney off, i recall him saying Rooney was a world class player suffering in the system, that we need to focus on playing him in his right position and he will score goals.

Mitch Connor

homerjay2005 wrote: »

do you have a video/link where he said Rooney was finished?

when everybody else was finishing Rooney off, i recall him saying Rooney was a world class player suffering in the system, that we need to focus on playing him in his right position and he will score goals.

No, and I can't be arsed looking. maybe I am wrong. Convinced he was saying in the summer that Rooney was past it.

yermandan

brinty wrote: »

yermandan speaks, well I never...
Congrats on the engagement dude, welcome to the life of United being second in your life (at least around your better half) to weekends doing up the house, making babies, shopping and all that fun stuff.

So anyways Sunderland this week, please god let us have another early goal and take it from there. Once we get an early goal we seem to relax and play with more freedom. We really should be putting Sunderland to the sword. Big sam has an awful record v United so lets get at them early get a goal and put it to bed before half time.

Quiet day on the jose front

Thanks a million man, yeah her love for betting and Leicester's form this season has her glued to the footie. Long may it last!

On the piss for the weekend hopefully a goal laden saturday. Hopewfully the gap to 4th is closed after the dust settles....

Vrooom Vroom goes the tractor.

aperture_nuig

Deleted User wrote: »

On the piss for the weekend hopefully a goal laden saturday. Hopewfully the gap to 4th is closed after the dust settles....

Vrooom Vroom goes the tractor.

I didn't realize Jaguar made tractors



:P

Kerrydude1981

Deleted User wrote: »

On the piss for the weekend hopefully a goal laden saturday. Hopewfully the gap to 4th is closed after the dust settles....

Vrooom Vroom goes the tractor.

:D

Pro. F

homerjay2005 wrote: »

do you have a video/link where he said Rooney was finished?

when everybody else was finishing Rooney off, i recall him saying Rooney was a world class player suffering in the system, that we need to focus on playing him in his right position and he will score goals.

Scholes said there's a chance Rooney is warn out (StringerBell provided the link above), then a few months later, like you say, he said Rooney was a world class player. Those two statements are contradictory.

TheDoc

Mitch Connor wrote: »

No, and I can't be arsed looking. maybe I am wrong. Convinced he was saying in the summer that Rooney was past it.

He definitely did, and I provided the links and context previously. For timelines, his argument Rooney might on the on the downward slope came before the World Cup where he put forward the point Sturridge should be the no.9 for England, with Rooney dropping back deeper. He re-iterated his point ahead of Van Gaals first season with the arrival of Falcao and the assumption Van Persie would recapture his SAF form, claiming Rooney would likely need to drop deep into 10 or wide left. He then indicated that view again at the start of this season, when he questioned the decision to make Rooney captain and essentially an untouchable in terms of selection.

The issue with Scholes is what you can see with a lot of ex-pros recently out of the game moving into punditry. They are too visceral and definitive with their statements, leaving nothing open ended, and then basically end up back tracking on their point. Gary Neville made the point how he learned from the slating of David Luiz, that when he was criticise he would choose his words carefully not to write something off, especially when it came to idnetifying if someone or thing was good enough, or suffering a slump in form.

Problem being no one ever wants to look like they were wrong in the first place, so it twists into this weird and awkward viewpoint.

Scholes unequivocally stated that he believed Rooney was on the downward slope and outlined his thoughts as to why. Which is fine.

That he then drastically shifted his opinion, when Rooney was CLEARLY playing rubbish, to blaming Van Gaal and the system, is why it gains so much traction from people.

I'd hate to think Van Gaal believes fans are being directed from Scholes viewpoint. I'd like to think the aggression he is receiving is from fans who have reached their conclusions by themselves. Nothing worse then just following ex-players opinions, as they most always have some form of agenda.

Scholes got the absolute hump when he was not invited to stay on the coaching staff when Van Gaal arrived(he believed he would)
Ferdinand still has the hump over the way he was released from the club.
Hargreaves believes United medical staff were the reason he suffered injury and that he was never properly catered for.

For me it's always worth me keeping these in mind, and present, whenever I'm listening/watching their post match analysis or comment regarding United.

The cynic in me probably also believes they keep pushing Giggs for the position, as they themselves might see that as an entry back into the club in coaching roles.

Maximus Alexander

Pro. F wrote: »

Scholes said there's a chance Rooney is warn out (StringerBell kryogen provided the link above), then a few months later, like you say, he said Rooney was a world class player. Those two statements are contradictory.

FYP. Don't indulge him by using his stupid new identity. :pac:

TheDoc

Paul Merson and Robbie Savage are the quintessential use cases when it comes to back tracking on opinion, embarrassingly and awkwardly. Both frequently make outragous predictions and "calls" and frequently change their opinion, in most cases, not even acknowledging there previous held view from what could only be a few weeks previous.

jayo26

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

FYP. Don't indulge him by using his stupid new identity. :pac:

You can get yellow carded for that carryon

Maximus Alexander

jayo26 wrote: »

You can get yellow carded for that carryon

For reals?

Trigger

jayo26 wrote: »

You can get yellow carded for that carryon

You must have missed the welcome back gif party when he came out and stated he was Kryogen himself :pac:

jayo26

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

For reals?

Hell ya big time.

astradave wrote: »

You must have missed the welcome back gif party when he came out and stated he was Kryogen himself :pac:

Thats was the problem I didn't miss it but someone else did haha. Anyways all in past.

Maximus Alexander

jayo26 wrote: »

You can get yellow carded for that carryon

Your inbox is full jayo but thanks for the heads up. It's not speculation though since he announced it himself.

jayo26

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Your inbox is full jayo but thanks for the heads up. It's not speculation though since he announced it himself.

Thanks for the heads up on my inbox I was wondering why my fan mail had suddenly stopped.

fish fingers

JONES, JANUZAJ, VARELA ALL INJURED
In his interview with MUTV, Louis van Gaal confirmed Phil Jones, Adnan Januzaj and Guillermo Varela all picked up injuries while playing for the Under-21s on Monday. "They're not nasty injuries but I have to give them time to recover," the boss said.

Mars Bar

How does a tractor relate to positivity?! For the most part, drivers of tractors are gob****es who take up the road and are completely oblivious to the cars stuck behind them for ages and they don't have the decency to pull in to let them past when they have a chance!! I relate tractors to frustration, rage and dickheads.

fish fingers

LATEST ON BASTI, ROJO, VALENCIA
Van Gaal also spoke to MUTV about the fitness of Bastian Schweinsteiger, Marcos Rojo and Antonio Valencia. "I cannot say Bastian is returning in two weeks," he said. "I have given him a holiday. There is light at the end of the tunnel for Rojo and Valencia - they are coming back and I hope to have them as soon as possible."

Lord TSC

Scholes interests me. He was all over LVG, Rooney and the team before Xmas, laying in and not missing a chance to have a moan about them. He was contributing massively to LVG's pressure.

The suddenly, when word came out about "LVG has two games to save his job", Scholes 180'd and suddenly was calling for patience, etc.

The conspiracy nut in me thinks at one stage, he was piling on pressure hopeful Giggs would replace him, and then got word that wasn't happening. I'm even more hopeful that the reports of the "2 games to save his job" stories were true, and it was at that stage we started moving towards other managers, and that when Scholes discovered this, he stopped being so ultra-negative cause he realised if Jose (or Pep) came in, Giggs would likely be outed and his chance of a job would be gone too...

(*Puts on tin foil hat...*)

brinty

Mars Bar wrote: »

How does a tractor relate to positivity?! For the most part, drivers of tractors are gob****es who take up the road and are completely oblivious to the cars stuck behind them for ages and they don't have the decency to pull in to let them past when they have a chance!! I relate tractors to frustration, rage and dickheads.

Atta girl Mars Bar

Mars Bar

Mars Bar wrote: »

How does a tractor relate to positivity?! For the most part, drivers of tractors are gob****es who take up the road and are completely oblivious to the cars stuck behind them for ages and they don't have the decency to pull in to let them past when they have a chance!! I relate tractors to frustration, rage and dickheads.

:pac::pac::pac:

Tractors own the road and pull in for nobody

bucketybuck

fish fingers wrote: »

JONES, JANUZAJ, VARELA ALL INJURED
In his interview with MUTV, Louis van Gaal confirmed Phil Jones, Adnan Januzaj and Guillermo Varela all picked up injuries while playing for the Under-21s on Monday. "They're not nasty injuries but I have to give them time to recover," the boss said.

Jones injured again. 6 PL starts this season. He's still young but at some point the club will have to make a call on this guy, what use a player you can't rely upon.

TheDoc

Mars Bar wrote: »

How does a tractor relate to positivity?! For the most part, drivers of tractors are gob****es who take up the road and are completely oblivious to the cars stuck behind them for ages and they don't have the decency to pull in to let them past when they have a chance!! I relate tractors to frustration, rage and dickheads.

I'd imagine the tractor is a bit symbolic of the driver, which relates to the positivity brigade. Bouncing along head and shoulders all over the place, having a whistle and enjoying life, while ignoring a cohort of people behind going ****ing ape **** crazy and blaring their horns.

Mars Bar

TheDoc wrote: »

I'd imagine the tractor is a bit symbolic of the driver, which relates to the positivity brigade. Bouncing along head and shoulders all over the place, having a whistle and enjoying life, while ignoring a cohort of people behind going ****ing ape **** crazy and blaring their horns.

That's very true!

Asking a person what they think of when they think of a tractor would be a great way of sorting the optimists from the pessimists.

TheDoc

Lord TSC wrote: »

Scholes interests me. He was all over LVG, Rooney and the team before Xmas, laying in and not missing a chance to have a moan about them. He was contributing massively to LVG's pressure.

The suddenly, when word came out about "LVG has two games to save his job", Scholes 180'd and suddenly was calling for patience, etc.

The conspiracy nut in me thinks at one stage, he was piling on pressure hopeful Giggs would replace him, and then got word that wasn't happening. I'm even more hopeful that the reports of the "2 games to save his job" stories were true, and it was at that stage we started moving towards other managers, and that when Scholes discovered this, he stopped being so ultra-negative cause he realised if Jose (or Pep) came in, Giggs would likely be outed and his chance of a job would be gone too...

(*Puts on tin foil hat...*)

Your probably not far wrong. I personally think Scholes is extremely poor at masking his agenda.

Trigger

Mars Bar wrote: »

How does a tractor relate to positivity?! For the most part, drivers of tractors are gob****es who take up the road and are completely oblivious to the cars stuck behind them for ages and they don't have the decency to pull in to let them past when they have a chance!! I relate tractors to frustration, rage and dickheads.

I think someone's ex is a farmer. :pac:

Pro. F

Scholes just likes to be blunt and contrarian, but he doesn't put enough thought into the topic so he ends up contradicting himself.

glued

Pro. F wrote: »

Scholes just likes to be blunt and contrarian, but he doesn't put enough thought into the topic so he ends up contradicting himself.

He's an awful pundit tbh. His answer to United's problems were to pass the ball to Wayne Rooney. It's obvious that he's strongly biased towards Giggs, which seems to also be a view harboured by many ex-United players. Appointing Giggs at this point would be a massive risk and one that would end in inevitable failure. The whole premise for him getting the job is that 'he knows the club inside out'. That's not the basis we should be using to appoint a new manager.

RobertKK

Mars Bar wrote: »

How does a tractor relate to positivity?! For the most part, drivers of tractors are gob****es who take up the road and are completely oblivious to the cars stuck behind them for ages and they don't have the decency to pull in to let them past when they have a chance!! I relate tractors to frustration, rage and dickheads.

Thankfully you said 'for the most part'...I always pull in, hate it myself when a tractor driver doesn't pull in.
Tractors are work horses, we bought a Ferrari when we got Di Maria, but then he went all Lada on us.

Rayne Wooney

When did Scholes say Rooney was world class?

adox

Scholes didnt say Rooney was finished. He say he may have peaked earlier than other players due to the nature of his game and be on the way down.

Thats him speculating about Rooneys poor form at the time, not giving a definitive reason for it.

It was taken out of proportion at the time and is again here.

Lord TSC

http://www.insidefutbol.com/2016/02/12/inter-defender-reveals-he-turned-down-manchester-united/269980/

Nagatomo turned down United in January. His contract is up in the summer, but wants to stay at Inter.

bangkok

Scholes is a United supporter. He was saying exactly the same as we all were on here only he was getting paid to do it on tele

Ashbourne hoop

bucketybuck wrote: »

Jones injured again. 6 PL starts this season. He's still young but at some point the club will have to make a call on this guy, what use a player you can't rely upon.

I think the fact that he is injured so often masks the fact that he isn't really Utd standard.

jayo26

Bit like the farming and forestry thread doing a mix with Man united thread here today.

castletownman

bangkok wrote: »

Scholes is a United supporter. He was saying exactly the same as we all were on here only he was getting paid to do it on tele

And as is the wont when someone (rightly) criticises the club, even a club legend like Scholes, people get upset over it. God forbid anyone dissing US! Only the experts on this thread are allowed to do that.

Mitch Connor

Ashbourne hoop wrote: »

I think the fact that he is injured so often masks the fact that he isn't really Utd standard.

i think if he wasn't injured so often he would improve to that level (or beyond).

Smalling looked rubbish a lot of the time too when he was spending most of the season injured or recovering.

Now that he is consistently fit, he has improved significantly

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

Scholes is a United supporter. He was saying exactly the same as we all were on here only he was getting paid to do it on tele

When Scholes was questioning if Rooney was on a downward slope coming to the end of his career, I was pushing, advocating and dieing to see him play as a no.9

And when he was saying Rooney was still World Class and the problem was Van Gaal and the system, I was saying Rooney was a major broken point in the system, with control equal to throwing a bouncy ball of a wall.

I've also totally disagreed with his assertions that many players in the squad are not good enough and not of United quality.

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

Scholes is a United supporter. He was saying exactly the same as we all were on here only he was getting paid to do it on tele

How could this be true if there were people on here disagreeing with what he said?

Ashbourne hoop

Mitch Connor wrote: »

i think if he wasn't injured so often he would improve to that level (or beyond).

Smalling looked rubbish a lot of the time too when he was spending most of the season injured or recovering.

Now that he is consistently fit, he has improved significantly

Maybe. Smalling has improved, but I don't think he's a world beater by any stretch either. Personally, I wouldn't be heartbroken if both were replaced if/when Mourinhio comes in.

beno619

castletownman wrote: »

And as is the wont when someone (rightly) criticises the club, even a club legend like Scholes, people get upset over it. God forbid anyone dissing US! Only the experts on this thread are allowed to do that.

Yeah the conspiracists re Scholes and Giggs are hilarious.

Scholes is being criticises for flip flopping on opinions many people on this forum held and subsequently flip flopped on.

Can anyone back up their conspiracy theory's or does the argument just suit the anti Giggs agenda ?

I dont think Giggs should get the job but the tarring of his name is becoming tiresome.

Pro. F

Ashbourne hoop wrote: »

Maybe. Smalling has improved, but I don't think he's a world beater by any stretch either. Personally, I wouldn't be heartbroken if both were replaced if/when Mourinhio comes in.

Smalling is easily one of the best CBs in the league, no way we'll be getting rid of him.

TheDoc

Mitch Connor wrote: »

i think if he wasn't injured so often he would improve to that level (or beyond).

Smalling looked rubbish a lot of the time too when he was spending most of the season injured or recovering.

Now that he is consistently fit, he has improved significantly

You can see where SAF was going with buying the two of them and the plan he had. Looked to me he was very much setting up for Rio(Smalling) and Vidic(Jones) mkII

Injury has blighted both. With Jones its more frustrating, as its totally stupid **** most of the time. His injury for the U21's was nutting his own midfielder, when there was really no need for him to try win the header.

If both could stay injury free for a season, I'd be fascinated to see how they would do together. If I'm not mistaken there was a point this season where a stat emerged that United have never lost when the two were paired in CB (might have been only this season, or I'm recalling it wrong)

TheDoc

beno619 wrote: »

Yeah the conspiracists re Scholes and Giggs are hilarious.

Scholes is being criticises for flip flopping on opinions many people on this forum held and subsequently flip flopped on.

Can anyone back up their conspiracy theory's or does the argument just suit the anti Giggs agenda ?

I dont think Giggs should get the job but the tarring of his name is becoming tiresome.

What conspiracies or arguments?

Ashbourne hoop

Pro. F wrote: »

Smalling is easily one of the best CBs in the league, no way we'll be getting rid of him.

Yeah maybe, not sure if that says more about CBs in the PL, rather than Smalling himself. Think of the CBs Utd have had over the last 15-20 years, where would Smalling come in that list ? Behind quite a few imo. Plus he's quite injury prone too, no?