Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 Mod Note Post #2331

DARK-KNIGHT

Mitch Connor wrote: »

And what if it turns out Mourinho is the person that takes over - what is the argument for not sacking LVG and bring Jose in now?

the board have set a new goal for van gaal to keep his job aka 5th spot :pac:

Pro. F

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Suppose we will see whenever the change is made, if it is anybody who currently is in a job then fair enough and wait but if it is somebody who is available now then shame on the board.

But how will you know that delay didn't come from the new manager's end or because of the contract negotiation?

ShaneU

Like with Moyes, I'd say if we're mathematically unable to finish in the top four, LVG will be gone the next day

homerjay2005

astradave wrote: »

Not even a whisper on twitter I hope I'm wrong but it looks like he is going to see out the season

Your not the only one actually..

http://twitter.com/kpsundayworld/status/699193935462273024

his article in the independant makes for interesting reading, basic points are -

LVG was possibly never right for the club.
United have made a mess of two managerial appointments in a row.
the damage done by LVG may take years to recover from, especially financially.
too much change in a short space of time and while work was needed on the Fergie/Moyes squad, it went too far.
set of players at the club not good enough.
Jose will have to start all over again and there is a big rebuilding needed.

homerjay2005

TheDoc wrote: »

Sunderland.....****ing Sunderland

I just can't get over it.

eh????

these results and performances have been happening for the last 20 months since LVG took over - they now are the norm, as opposed to the exception.

our form against the bottom teams in the league, is an absolute disgrace - we dropped 16 points against them last season and 18 already this season.

whats worse about our November run of results, is that we didnt play any decent teams apart from Leceister and we have them all left to play - arsenal, west ham, leceister, city, spurs all coming up.

while we have done well in these games, there is nothing to suggest that we can actually win any of them based on how the team is going.

Mitch Connor

homerjay2005 wrote: »

his article in the independant makes for interesting reading, basic points are -

LVG was possibly never right for the club.
United have made a mess of two managerial appointments in a row.
the damage done by LVG may take years to recover from, especially financially.
too much change in a short space of time and while work was needed on the Fergie/Moyes squad, it went too far.
set of players at the club not good enough.
Jose will have to start all over again and there is a big rebuilding needed.

I think there is a base of decent players to form a Jose 11 around.

I think he could do well with:

---

De Gea
Darmian-Smalling-New Signing-Shaw

---

Schneiderlin

---

Herrera---New Signing
New Signing

---

Martial

---

Rooney

so, imo - that is 3 first team signings needed to fill out the first 11 with sufficient quality. Beyond that though we arguably also need a second right back, another cb, maybe two more CMs and a forward. Then you are still hoping Young, Memphis and maybe Pereira and Mata can offer decent alternatives on the wing or as a 3rd CM (player depending)

Liam McPoyle

homerjay2005 wrote: »

his article in the independant makes for interesting reading, basic points are -

LVG was possibly never right for the club.
United have made a mess of two managerial appointments in a row.
the damage done by LVG may take years to recover from, especially financially.
too much change in a short space of time and while work was needed on the Fergie/Moyes squad, it went too far.
set of players at the club not good enough.
Jose will have to start all over again and there is a big rebuilding needed.

United are in a better place financially than ever before.

DARK-KNIGHT

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I think there is a base of decent players to form a Jose 11 around.

I think he could do well with:

---

De Gea
Darmian-Smalling-New Signing-Shaw

---

Schneiderlin

---

Herrera---New Signing
New Signing

---

Martial

---

Rooney

so, imo - that is 3 first team signings needed to fill out the first 11 with sufficient quality. Beyond that though we arguably also need a second right back, another cb, maybe two more CMs and a forward. Then you are still hoping Young, Memphis and maybe Pereira and Mata can offer decent alternatives on the wing or as a 3rd CM (player depending)

fully agree 3 big signings needed and a few young exciting prospects to play second fiddle and put pressure on the starting 11

we need pace, we need excitement, we need bale......

jayo26

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I think there is a base of decent players to form a Jose 11 around.

I think he could do well with:

---

De Gea
Darmian-Smalling-New Signing-Shaw

---

Schneiderlin

---

Herrera---New Signing
New Signing

---

Martial

---

Rooney

so, imo - that is 3 first team signings needed to fill out the first 11 with sufficient quality. Beyond that though we arguably also need a second right back, another cb, maybe two more CMs and a forward. Then you are still hoping Young, Memphis and maybe Pereira and Mata can offer decent alternatives on the wing or as a 3rd CM (player depending)

Totally agree with you Mitch and one big problem and difference in your lineup that another manager like jose would have is only one bloody defensive midfielder... For christ sake like against Sunderland of all teams we lining up with 2 defensive minded midfielder we should of had mata as number 10 and herrera sitting in front of Carrick or Schneiderlin.

jayo26

jayo26 wrote: »

Totally agree with you Mitch and one big problem and difference in your lineup that another manager like jose would have is only one bloody defensive midfielder... For christ sake like against Sunderland of all teams we lining up with 2 defensive minded midfielder we should of had mata as number 10 and herrera sitting in front of Carrick or Schneiderlin.

IMO the two have issues playing together. Schneiderlan looks to be struggling to distinguish what role he's supposed to to be playing in the center.

To be fair to Carrick when Fellani was in the side he looked to have been playing further forward and the team was playing much better as Fellani was playing the defensive role to a T.

Liam O

Schneiderlin has been all over the place for United, I'd rather Blind went back to DM if a new CB is signed. Though I'd have no problem with Blind and Smalling continuing at CB but a new manager may have a different view.

The problem is the lack of any real battlers in the team which is why Fellaini looks so good. The only player bar Rooney and Herrera who's not willing to just roll over and accept what's happening around him. It's even happened to Schweinsteiger and Smalling who seem to be afraid to impose their will on the team too. It's also why Herrera and Fellaini in front of Carrick is the only midfield that has looked competent under LVG.

DARK-KNIGHT

We have more pressing issues now lads

What top tier player is gonna wanna join us without CL football

Add to that the dire results and the acceptance of poor performance after poor performance. And then go further and see lvg treatment of valdes absolutely disgusting to basically isolate the guy it's a joke tbh van gaal needs ****ing out asap

user2011

Form wise we look like we'll struggle for Europa League spots, so we potentially could be totally out of Europe next year again (was happy first time around because I thought a clean break from the mistakes that were made, learn and move swiftly on, nope!) Ed/Glazers look like they are willing to take a hit of near a £100m for the 2 seasons out of Europe.

In the name of saving face :rolleyes:

£100m, nearly a Neymar/Bale a Pogba.

DARK-KNIGHT

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

We have more pressing issues now lads

What top tier player is gonna wanna join us without CL football

Add to that the dire results and the acceptance of poor performance after poor performance. And then go further and see lvg treatment of valdes absolutely disgusting to basically isolate the guy it's a joke tbh van gaal needs ****ing out asap

TBF the same was said when LVG started. The signings are not of a concern to me. The concern is getting the correct manager in. Money isn't an issue. Players like money. Forget about Romance if given enough they will come.
Di Maria a prime example of that.

The Valdes treatment piece is a bit hyperbole IMO

Leroy42

Looking like 2 out of 3 seasons without CL football (you can forget about winning the EL, we can't even beat Sunderland why do people think we have any chance)

One year can be easily skipped over, no player is going to not come to a club based on that, but as Liverpool saw when they came 2nd, players start to question whether CL will be available for the next few years and we currently are showing all the signs of a previous big club moving into the second tier.

No chance any of Ronaldo, Neymar, Bale etc are coming to Utd in the summer if we fail to secure 4th. I can't believe the board cannot see the potential long term danger the club is in. They appear to be blinded by the current financial success, which is actually based on prior years and failing to plan for the future.

Remember, this year we were suppossed to be fighting for the title, LVG's own words, and instead we are lamenting how we might miss out on 4th!

Cantona's Collars

If we miss out on CL football this season and next then the Adidas money gets cut by about 25 million the following season.

paulbok

zerks wrote: »

If we miss out on CL football this season and next then the Adidas money gets cut by about 25 million the following season.

And that's just the one deal that is public. I'd imagine all the top end deals have similar clauses.
A few years out of the CL and even noodle sponsors won't wok anything to do with us.

I don't think LvG will have done all that much long term damage regardless of how the season ends. Worst damage he could do is leave us outside the top 4. Not the longest lasting damage (One would hope...).
In fact the best part of his reign has been how many young players he's brought through to the first team.
Don't get me wrong, it's not working out and he needs to go but he won't do any long lasting damage.

homerjay2005

If we had kept Rafael, Evans, Nani, RVP and Hernandez and maybe only signed Darmian, Morgan,Memphis and Martial last summer, do people think we'd be in better shape now or worse off?

RobertKK

Our current form is the same as City, whom teams are no longer afraid of either.

6 points behind 4th is not impossible, we would all like to see how Pep would do in the Europa league.

36 points to play for.

DARK-KNIGHT

M!Ck^ wrote: »

TBF the same was said when LVG started. The signings are not of a concern to me. The concern is getting the correct manager in. Money isn't an issue. Players like money. Forget about Romance if given enough they will come.
Di Maria a prime example of that.

The Valdes treatment piece is a bit hyperbole IMO

Not hyperbole at all mick. He was treated badly by Van gaal that is undeniable

I'm saying it a long time van gaal wasn't the right man

Imo while moyes failed he still on par if not better than van gaal moyes without spending apart from afroman had us in the same place we find ourselves now. Why is van gaal being given this much leeway it's so frustrating

At the time fergie retirement I was expecting a drop but holy **** this is bad just goes to show how good sir Alex was.

We need a manager in place now and gearing towards the transfer window and next season at this point bar a miracle run from us and a collapse in the form teams the season has been an absolute disaster. Look at our run in I reckon there are 6 games that are very loseable for us

I have **** all hair left and I still find myself trying to rip it out watching United these days.

Here's hoping mourinho is appointed this week

DARK-KNIGHT

paulbok wrote: »

And that's just the one deal that is public. I'd imagine all the top end deals have similar clauses.
A few years out of the CL and even noodle sponsors won't wok anything to do with us.

I see what you did there... I like it....

The_Kew_Tour

homerjay2005 wrote: »

If we had kept Rafael, Evans, Nani, RVP and Hernandez and maybe only signed Darmian, Morgan,Memphis and Martial last summer, do people think we'd be in better shape now or worse off?

I would have said yes, but the football we play I doubt it have made much difference.

jayo26

RobertKK wrote: »

Our current form is the same as City, whom teams are no longer afraid of either.

6 points behind 4th is not impossible, we would all like to see how Pep would do in the Europa league.

36 points to play for.

See thats the problem tho, if we got rid of lvg even if it was giggs temporary the team might get a lift and push on and get six points on city but the fact is lvg is still there and the team dont look like they are going to turn a corner with him in charge so I can't see us overtaking city with him there.

bucketybuck

homerjay2005 wrote: »

If we had kept Rafael, Evans, Nani, RVP and Hernandez and maybe only signed Darmian, Morgan,Memphis and Martial last summer, do people think we'd be in better shape now or worse off?

Theoretically we should have been better off, but to be honest it doesn't really matter too much what players were there or not there, not when the manager can't get anybody playing well. Had Nani or Chico stayed we would just be talking about how rubbish they'd been all season.

jayo26

homerjay2005 wrote: »

If we had kept Rafael, Evans, Nani, RVP and Hernandez and maybe only signed Darmian, Morgan,Memphis and Martial last summer, do people think we'd be in better shape now or worse off?

I think of the only one of them now that would help us would be Chicharito simply because
if rafa was still here there is a good chance he Been injured or else Varela wouldnt get a chance and I think Varela looks really good.
Evans no because even tho he was experienced I don't think he was better then blind has been for us this year,
nani no because even tho he had flashes of good in him he was still inconsistent and I don't think he would improve on lingard who has scored some good goals and winning goals for us
And rvp no because he wouldn't be playing enough to keep him happy so I think he would of been destructive influence.

Rayne Wooney

The reason we have more sponsors than the rest is the success we have had, if we continue the way we are of course sponsors are going to pull out. Do you think adidas would have made that comment about the poor football if we were top of the league and still in the CL, of course not, the business is in the results.

As it stands 3 seasons are written off, when is the last time that has happened to a big club?

Canadel

Liam O wrote: »

The idea that LVG is somehow not a competent manager is ridiculous. Naive of him to think that he could implement the style that he tried to with the players available maybe, but to call him incompetent is very disrespectful as he has achieved good things everywhere he's been.

The players available? That argument could be used for Moyes maybe but not Van Gaal. They're his players. It's Van Gaal's team. He got rid of the players he didn't want, and signed the ones he did want. It's not disrespectful at all to call him incompetent. Nor is it wrong to call the board negligent for allowing him to continue on this far. The implementation of his philosophy at Utd has been a total miscalculation on his part and he has nobody to blame but himself. I still think he did well to get CL football last season but I also think Moyes may well have got 4th too had he been given another season. That the football has got worse, that the signings have failed to deliver spectacularly, and that there are no signs of improvement, all suggest that he is incompetent and unskilled to complete this job to the expected level.

billyhead

What the **** is Ed doing. Why is this clown LVG still in the job? No point in him being there as 4th place is out of question. Offer it to Mourinho if hes interested and let him plan for next season

Lord TSC

billyhead wrote: »

What the **** is Ed doing. Why is this clown LVG still in the job? No point in him being there as 4th place is out of question. Offer it to Mourinho if hes interested and let him plan for next season

The reliable sources are pretty much saying thats whats happening...

markcahill1985

Lord TSC wrote:

The reliable sources are pretty much saying thats whats happening...

Which sources? Saying it's happening now? Please please

Lord TSC

markcahill1985 wrote: »

Which sources? Saying it's happening now? Please please

Not right now, but over the last week, the likes of DiMarzio, the credible guys at the BBC and other more credible sites and journalists are saying that we are at least talking with him, with some saying there is a verbal agreement. Point is, most credible sources are saying that it's highly likely Jose will be our manager next season at the latest....

I would imagine, if that's true, the idea has been floated with Jose about coming in sooner. Could be negotiations are ongoing (it's not as simple as "here, sign this!") or could be Jose wants nothing to do with this "failed" season at this stage.

bangkok

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

We have more pressing issues now lads

What top tier player is gonna wanna join us without CL football

Add to that the dire results and the acceptance of poor performance after poor performance. And then go further and see lvg treatment of valdes absolutely disgusting to basically isolate the guy it's a joke tbh van gaal needs ****ing out asap

You pay any player enough money and he will join you.

Just look at teixeira or Jackson Martinez, both players left Europe to join Chinese clubs. Last time I checked no champions league in China.

Di Maria, falcao, shaw etc etc all joined us without champions league.

Look at Man city when they signed all the players Robinho etc no champ league.

Once you pay big £££ players really don't care where they play, it's just champions league clubs will more than likely be able to pay the bigger wages

Strumms

Canadel wrote: »

The players available? That argument could be used for Moyes maybe but not Van Gaal. They're his players. It's Van Gaal's team. He got rid of the players he didn't want, and signed the ones he did want. It's not disrespectful at all to call him incompetent. Nor is it wrong to call the board negligent for allowing him to continue on this far. The implementation of his philosophy at Utd has been a total miscalculation on his part and he has nobody to blame but himself. I still think he did well to get CL football last season but I also think Moyes may well have got 4th too had he been given another season. That the football has got worse, that the signings have failed to deliver spectacularly, and that there are no signs of improvement, all suggest that he is incompetent and unskilled to complete this job to the expected level.

spot on. I've said it a million times here. His excellent record is what got him the job but that is not enough to keep him here when he is performing so badly. He has managed in a year and a half to make changes but we are worse off then when we were under Moyes. At least he had the excuse of not signing anyone of note aside from Fellaini.

We are playing shocking football and it is clear to me that he got it so wrong in terms of estimating the depth and quality of squad that would be required to stand up not only to the rigors of the premership but to fight on 3 other fronts also. To fight for every trophy and seek success is what is demanded by this club and supporters. He hasn't lived up to his own billing or our standards, things will get worse, he has a year on his contract just show him the door and put us out of our misery.

Mitch Connor

I reckon that the talk of Jose to United is way off.

If United were seriously interested in him taking over, and Mourinho wanted it - it would have happened at some point in the last two months.

I reckon United are, as ever under Woodward, happlessly meandering along without any real plan of action.

The longer it goes on with LVG in charge, the worse the summer is going to be - and thus the worse next season is going to be. The club is a shambles from top to bottom.

There isn't another 'top' club in football that is as poorly run on the football front as United. Woodward and the Glazers have a mediocre ambition for the club, a mediocre vision for the club, and a mediocre management of the club. Yay, we are rich with loads of sponsors. BIG FOOKING WHOOP. We'd make more money in the CL than we will off most sponsors, but the club shows little ambition in trying to achieve it. Settling for pathetic league performances - accepting it, wallowing in it.

A pathetically ran club.

This is the United Woodward and the Glazers are creating - we are getting exactly what their stewardship of the club deserves.

user2011

bangkok wrote: »

You pay any player enough money and he will join you.

Just look at teixeira or Jackson Martinez, both players left Europe to join Chinese clubs. Last time I checked no champions league in China.

Di Maria, falcao, shaw etc etc all joined us without champions league.

Look at Man city when they signed all the players Robinho etc no champ league.

Once you pay big £££ players really don't care where they play, it's just champions league clubs will more than likely be able to pay the bigger wages

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFC_Champions_League

:pac:

UnitedIrishman

homerjay2005 wrote: »

If we had kept Rafael, Evans, Nani, RVP and Hernandez and maybe only signed Darmian, Morgan,Memphis and Martial last summer, do people think we'd be in better shape now or worse off?

Like Kew said I don't think it'd have made much of a difference. And it's likely that whoever we get in will get more out of this group of players than LVG has the last number of months.

bucketybuck

Lord TSC wrote: »

Not right now, but over the last week, the likes of DiMarzio, the credible guys at the BBC and other more credible sites and journalists are saying that we are at least talking with him, with some saying there is a verbal agreement. Point is, most credible sources are saying that it's highly likely Jose will be our manager next season at the latest....

I would imagine, if that's true, the idea has been floated with Jose about coming in sooner. Could be negotiations are ongoing (it's not as simple as "here, sign this!") or could be Jose wants nothing to do with this "failed" season at this stage.

The talk of Mourinho smells a lot like many of our transfer "targets" over the past few seasons, a lot of "preparing bids", of "talks ongoing" and other such hand waving.

For myself, I see a manager who for years has made it clear he would like to manage here, who even recently has indicated he would like to manage here, who is currently available and who wants to manage here. In the great scheme of things this really should be one of the simpler decisions to make but yet again the club seem not to be getting things done. We can use our imaginations to come up plausible reasons why perhaps Jose doesn't want to come now, (gardening leave for a sacked manager, really?) but you know what, most of them ring false to me.

And I don't agree that Mourinho doesn't want to be associated with a failed season, he will know that the blame for that won't be on him, instead rather he will get a free pass for next few months to do and try what he wants without consequence.

In my opinion we are dithering again, and its fast becoming the watchword under Ed Woodward.

billyhead

I agree with Mitch. If the club was properly run Ed would have got his finger out and fired LVG before x-mas. Its a results orientated business. It looks like the owners only give a **** about making money and not whats happening on the pitch and the fans are ultimately the ones suffering. I don't want to sound like a doomed merchant especially when it concerns the team I follow and have done all my life but I see us turning into the likes of what Liverpool were after they enjoyed their success in the late 80s early 90s.

allthedoyles

i wonder if the delay is anything to do with the court case Jose is involved in . They might be waiting for the outcome .

Rossi IRL

u21s winning 1-0.

Canadel

bangkok wrote: »

You pay any player enough money and he will join you.

Just look at teixeira or Jackson Martinez, both players left Europe to join Chinese clubs. Last time I checked no champions league in China.

Di Maria, falcao, shaw etc etc all joined us without champions league.

Look at Man city when they signed all the players Robinho etc no champ league.

Once you pay big £££ players really don't care where they play, it's just champions league clubs will more than likely be able to pay the bigger wages

I also think there is a danger in that theory whereby you attract players that are attracted to a club entirely due to the money being offered. Don't get me wrong, I know money is a huge factor in a player deciding who to join, but I don't believe it is 100% the reason in the case of the best players and those who truly love the game. Not to mention players who will play their hearts out for both manager and team. You only have to look at the recent transfers of Di Maria and Falcao to Utd. You could argue that Falcao tried his best till the end, but surely he knew himself before he arrived on astronomical wages that he was not the same player as in his prime. Money can be a great market indicator and a powerful tool with which to attract the best, but it is also a huge source of dishonesty and stupidity by those on both sides. It's also why scouting is so important too in football, and why signing the right kind of players in terms of attitude and mentality is just as important as signing the most sought after in terms of monetary value.

bangkok

Canadel wrote: »

I also think there is a danger in that theory whereby you attract players that are attracted to a club entirely due to the money being offered. Don't get me wrong, I know money is a huge factor in a player deciding who to join, but I don't believe it is 100% the reason in the case of the best players and those who truly love the game. Not to mention players who will play their hearts out for both manager and team. You only have to look at the recent transfers of Di Maria and Falcao to Utd. You could argue that Falcao tried his best till the end, but surely he knew himself before he arrived on astronomical wages that he was not the same player as in his prime. Money can be a great market indicator and a powerful tool with which to attract the best, but it is also a huge source of dishonesty and stupidity by those on both sides. It's also why scouting is so important too in football, and why signing the right kind of players in terms of attitude and mentality is just as important as signing the most sought after in terms of monetary value.

And that brings me back to welbeck, homegrown, supported the club, gave 100%, provided a serious threat going forward, good work rate, technically very good, tactically excellent, still to reach his peak and we sold him to a direct rival!!

DARK-KNIGHT

billyhead wrote: »

I agree with Mitch. If the club was properly run Ed would have got his finger out and fired LVG before x-mas. Its a results orientated business. It looks like the owners only give a **** about making money and not whats happening on the pitch and the fans are ultimately the ones suffering. I don't want to sound like a doomed merchant especially when it concerns the team I follow and have done all my life but I see us turning into the likes of what Liverpool were after they enjoyed their success in the late 80s early 90s.

Ah ffs don't compare us to the scousers how utterly ****ing depressing is that

Discodog

I would of thought that Jose would love to come in now. Either he stabilises our position & plans changes or he gets us top 4 & becomes adored. Can't lose.

Headshot

Discodog wrote: »

I would of thought that Jose would love to come in now. Either he stabilises our position & plans changes or he gets us top 4 & becomes adored. Can't lose.

Exactly.

Id go as far to say if Jose was here we'd be up their in a CL spot and maybe even challenging. This team is good enough to challenge, maybe not win it but certainly challenge.

The board really have a lot to answer for. LVG will go soon enough but unfortunately the board will remain

Flint Fredstone

Headshot wrote: »

Exactly.

Id go as far to say if Jose was here we'd be up their in a CL spot and maybe even challenging. This team is good enough to challenge, maybe not win it but certainly challenge.

The board really have a lot to answer for. LVG will go soon enough but unfortunately the board will remain

Will he though? I mean, we've been saying this for ages now, what's it going to take?

Headshot

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Will he though? I mean, we've been saying this for ages now, what's it going to take?

Unfortunately at the end of the season like Moyes when it will be way to late

user2011

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Will he though? I mean, we've been saying this for ages now, what's it going to take?

Top 4 to be mathematically out of reach it looks like!!!

Canadel

Headshot wrote: »

Unfortunately at the end of the season like Moyes when it will be way to late

Nightmare scenario: CL qualification comes down to the last game or two and Utd lose out. Worse if Spurs win the league.

In economic terms, Utd are experiencing a recession right now. If CL is not secured this season, that will officially become a depression.