Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 Mod Note Post #2331

Lord TSC

So in 24 hours, Bobby gets appeased by having a stand named after him, and a prominent member of the Class of 92 gets a massive promotion, and is basically put in charge of the future of the club.

I can't decide if that's a sign they are licking up to anyone who might be annoyed with Jose, or if the handing over of the reigns to the Class of 92 has begun....

Half expecting it to be announced tomorrow that Giggs will get a statue erected outside the grounds :P

beno619

I haven't seen anyone point out the Butt appointment as negative.

I have seen well thought out responses for pro's & con's of the appointment but in general people seem happy.

bangkok

just to put things into perspective, Patrick Vieria was the head of citys elite youth development, is there any real difference in Butt getting the United job and city giving Vieria that job??

Liam Brady was head of Arsenals academy for years.

Has anyone here ever seen how Nicky Butt works or coaches??

StringerBell

Time will tell whether its a good appointment or not, I wish him the best of luck anyway.

bucketybuck

beno619 wrote: »

I haven't seen anyone point out the Butt appointment as negative.

I have seen well thought out responses for pro's & con's of the appointment but in general people seem happy.

Nobody has called it negative, but the usual suspects won't let that stop their little digs regardless.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Butt was very successful in the role, for me the interesting questions come not from Butt himself, but from the process that put him there and what it means for the first team. The similarities between Butt and Giggs are too pronounced to pass without comment.

StringerBell

bucketybuck wrote: »

Nobody has called it negative, but the usual suspects won't let that stop their little digs regardless.

You're usual passive aggressive response is wrong old chap.

Mitch Connor

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Tbf Butt has his badges. He seems like grounded lad, who won't be big headed, but also a Club Legend.

He has to start somewhere and I think Youths is good start

I welcome the appointment.

He is head of the academy.

His job will be mostly administrative - scouts/coaches etc report to him. He will be in charge of youth staff appointments and overall player reruitment.

He won't be coaching players (so badges not an issue) and as for starting somewhere... its not a team managerial position, I don't see it as a position you could transition to first team management from. Far more likely to transition to a sporting director/director of football role. Which is basically what his role will be, but for the youth sides.

brinty

do all those people who give out about the Liverpool "boot room culture" realise this is repeated at the best club in the world
and guesss who everyone was crying out for us to get
a certain P Guardiola...
Guess where he came from.. the Barca bootroom...

uggghhhh some perspective people

Nalz

Mitch Connor wrote: »

He is head of the academy.

His job will be mostly administrative - scouts/coaches etc report to him. He will be in charge of youth staff appointments and overall player reruitment.

He won't be coaching players (so badges not an issue) and as for starting somewhere... its not a team managerial position, I don't see it as a position you could transition to first team management from. Far more likely to transition to a sporting director/director of football role. Which is basically what his role will be, but for the youth sides.

Maybe the role will change to suit the personnel? Tweaked ever so slightly? Mighn't be as black and white or square pegs square holes as you think.

bangkok

I other non Nicky Butt related news this morning...

On Monday, Van Gaal told reporters:

"Bastian has been unlucky because he picked up an injury at a time that he was playing very well; he was improving.

"However, during December I said that I expect more and he was very disappointed I said that, but I think I can say that because my expectation is higher.

"Manchester United has bought him even though he is now 31, so I had to convince the board to buy him, because he’s a very good player and he always gives a team more balance."

Well done Louis, punch the player while he is down. Moral in the dressing room must be at a serious low

UnitedIrishman

brinty wrote: »

do all those people who give out about the Liverpool "boot room culture" realise this is repeated at the best club in the world
and guesss who everyone was crying out for us to get
a certain P Guardiola...
Guess where he came from.. the Barca bootroom...

uggghhhh some perspective people

Also the boot room culture didn't work to bad with Shankly, Paisley, Dalglish and Fagan. It was only when Souness came in after that it didn't work.

Upside to Butt's appointment is that he's a local lad and hopefully he will have more of a knowledge of the local areas and leagues and their respective quality than another appointment. Regardless there won't be much Butt can do if we don't get the structure right first.

StringerBell

Not sure what is wrong with what he said there.

He told a highly paid, hugely experienced under performing player that he wanted more from him. A captain of multiple title winning domestic and international teams.

He actually says he was improving when he picked up the injury so he was unlucky with timing, he puts his own personal stake in it in how highly he rates him by affirming how he personally convinced the board to sign him with obvious reservations about his age/miles on the clock because he knows he is a very good player and always brings more balance to a team....

Still struggling to see whats wrong with any of that

Your Airbag

bangkok wrote: »

I other non Nicky Butt related news this morning...

On Monday, Van Gaal told reporters:

"Bastian has been unlucky because he picked up an injury at a time that he was playing very well; he was improving.

"However, during December I said that I expect more and he was very disappointed I said that, but I think I can say that because my expectation is higher.

"Manchester United has bought him even though he is now 31, so I had to convince the board to buy him, because he’s a very good player and he always gives a team more balance."

Well done Louis, punch the player while he is down. Moral in the dressing room must be at a serious low

So during our worst spell in December you have a problem with the manager telling players they need to improve?

Once posters on here turn on a manager or cheif exec some of the biased stuff that gets written is really cringey.

bangkok

StringerBell wrote: »

Not sure what is wrong with what he said there.

He told a highly paid, hugely experienced under performing player that he wanted more from him. A captain of multiple title winning domestic and international teams.

He actually says he was improving when he picked up the injury so he was unlucky with timing, he puts his own personal stake in it in how highly he rates him by affirming how he personally convinced the board to sign him with obvious reservations about his age/miles on the clock because he knows he is a very good player and always brings more balance to a team....

Still struggling to see whats wrong with any of that

Well the main person it effects Bastian didn't seem to pleased with it....

Canadel

bangkok wrote: »

I other non Nicky Butt related news this morning...

On Monday, Van Gaal told reporters:

"Bastian has been unlucky because he picked up an injury at a time that he was playing very well; he was improving.

"However, during December I said that I expect more and he was very disappointed I said that, but I think I can say that because my expectation is higher.

"Manchester United has bought him even though he is now 31, so I had to convince the board to buy him, because he’s a very good player and he always gives a team more balance."

Well done Louis, punch the player while he is down. Moral in the dressing room must be at a serious low

Schweinsteiger has been practically immobile in most of his performances for Utd. I don't think Van Gaal saying that he expects more is even close to punching him while he's down. I'd be more worried if a comment like that caused low morale than low morale tbh.

There's no doubt at this stage that Van Gaal has failed spectacularly in his role as manager, nor is there any doubt that the board have been entirely negligent in not sacking him, but that still doesn't excuse a lot of the football that the team are providing. They're either very limited as footballers or they're not trying 100%. The truth is it's a bit of both.

Nalz

Your Airbag wrote: »

So during our worst spell in December you have a problem with the manager telling players they need to improve?

Once posters on here turn on a manager or cheif exec some of the biased stuff that gets written is really cringey.

I think he's issue is that he's too honest in this circumstance and too open in the media over it

While you're being open there Louis, explain your philosophy if ya can good lad

Flint Fredstone

bangkok wrote: »

Well the main person it effects Bastian didn't seem to pleased with it....

Well maybe he should grow up and act his age if he can't be told he needs to improve without getting offended.

StringerBell

bangkok wrote: »

Well the main person it effects Bastian didn't seem to pleased with it....

I don't know what it is you do, but if you were performing your job poorly and your manager pulled you aside one day and said your not at your best lately and I need a bit more from you, do you think that is out of order?

Basti is a professional and clearly going by his performance on the pitch, which his manager recognised as improving he seemed to respond well to the reminder. He was disappointed his manager wasn't happy with his performance?? I should hope he was!

Again, there is literally a wealth of material to throw stones at Van Gaal about at this point, there is no need to clutch at straws in this regard.

bucketybuck

"I said that I expect more and he was very disappointed I said that"

I can think of a very obvious reason why Bastian might be disappointed in a situation like that.

Heres a world cup winner, moved to one of the world biggest clubs, and instead of the well oiled machine he was expecting he finds he is in a team that is completely dysfunctional, that look like they never played together and that the manager can't get working at all. Nothing is working, the manager can't get his ideas across, the players aren't comfortable in the systems and its all a bit miserable. The experienced player wants this to work but everything is a bit **** and its dragging him down.

Then the manager comes and tells him he isn't doing enough. It would take a very good man not to think "I'm not doing enough? Maybe if this team was run properly I'd get a chance to play well ffs, don't blame me for this crap..."

bucketybuck

StringerBell wrote: »

I don't know what it is you do, but if you were performing your job poorly and your manager pulled you aside one day and said your not at your best lately and I need a bit more from you, do you think that is out of order?

If you are performing poorly because your entire department is run into the ground by poor management then perhaps you might wonder if said manager should get his own house in order first.

Canadel

Nalz wrote: »

While you're being open there Louis, explain your philosophy if ya can good lad

:pac:

In all seriousness, has he ever comprehensively explained what his philosophy is? And whether he has already implemented it at Utd? Or is he still trying to? Has he given up trying to? Not meaning to take the piss or anything but it would be interesting and quite fair I think to receive answers to these questions from Van Gaal.

Canadel

bucketybuck wrote: »

instead of the well oiled machine he was expecting

And there was the majority of fans expecting a well oiled machine in Bastian. How silly were they. His movement and overall fitness reminds me of Falcao.

bucketybuck

Canadel wrote: »

His movement and overall fitness reminds me of Falcao.

I've often wondered about the coaching at the club as well.

StringerBell

bucketybuck wrote: »

If you are performing poorly because your entire department is run into the ground by poor management then perhaps you might wonder if said manager should get his own house in order first.

So you would look to blame others instinctively and refuse to consider any personal responsibility for your own work......great.

bucketybuck

StringerBell wrote: »

So you would look to blame others instinctively and refuse to consider any personal responsibility for your own work......great.

No doubt you would ignore that the player in question is an incredibly experienced and respected figure who did not get where he was without a lot of hard work and dedication. No, he is probably just being lazy and looking for others to blame. That would indeed be the obvious reason for him to be disappointed at being told he isn't doing well enough. Good man.

Mitch Connor

bucketybuck wrote: »

No doubt you would ignore that the player in question is an incredibly experienced and respected figure who did not get where he was without a lot of hard work and dedication. No, he is probably just being lazy and looking for others to blame. That would indeed be the obvious reason for him to be disappointed at being told he isn't doing well enough. Good man.

Do you think Schweinsteiger was playing well when LVG criticised him?

Personally I think he was playing quite poorly - slow on the ball, easily tackled and provided little defensive protection. I had no problems with LVG saying he was playing poorly, to be honest. He's one of a number of players that LVG could say it about.

You could look at LVG possibly singling him out; but he was poor so the criticism itself was justified, imo.

Also, at 31 years of age he has't got to this point of his career without having bouts of poor form, either. Poor form is not solved with purely hard work and dedication, nor does displaying both mean you won't play poorly.

Korat

LVG is perfectly entitled to criticise players, doesn't mean it's a good idea but you just hava to trust that he knows what he's doing.

StringerBell

bucketybuck wrote: »

No doubt you would ignore that the player in question is an incredibly experienced and respected figure who did not get where he was without a lot of hard work and dedication. No, he is probably just being lazy and looking for others to blame. That would indeed be the obvious reason for him to be disappointed at being told he isn't doing well enough. Good man.

I tell you what, it takes serious effort to get a situation as mixed up as what you apparently have done. Congrats.

Maybe you should read things properly before diving in two footed?

bangkok

StringerBell wrote: »

So you would look to blame others instinctively and refuse to consider any personal responsibility for your own work......great.

exactly and also the team are set up by the manager, to dominate possession, that's part of the philosophy, if he is giving the instructions to the players and they are doing as he says and then he criticises the player it doesn't really make sense

Mitch Connor

Korat wrote: »

you just hava to trust that he knows what he's doing.

Ah, nope. Well past that stage to be honest.

bucketybuck

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Do you think Schweinsteiger was playing well when LVG criticised him?

Its not really relevant to my point, which relates not to his actual performance but to the reasons why he may be poor and his reaction to the criticism.

If the coaching was good but his performance poor, I suspect that any very experienced player with Bastions reputation would take such criticism on the chin and continue working hard.

The quote didn't say Bastion disagreed with the claim that he was poor, but that he was disappointed at the criticism. Logic would follow that the reason he is disappointed at the criticism is because he feels a large part of the reason for his poor performance is external factors such as poor coaching. Nobody, even a world cup winner, likes to feel like they are being made a scapegoat.

Its all just speculation but the reasoning is sound, especially when you consider that its not just one player who is underperforming.

bucketybuck

StringerBell wrote: »

I tell you what, it takes serious effort to get a situation as mixed up as what you apparently have done. Congrats.

Maybe you should read things properly before diving in two footed?

I shall give your suggestion the time and consideration it deserves.

Lord TSC

bucketybuck wrote: »

The quote didn't say Bastion disagreed with the claim that he was poor, but that he was disappointed at the criticism.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, but I would say it's dangerous to start playing semantics with quotes from someone whose English isn't perfect. There's been issues before with people trying to take LVG literally and analyzing his language like that.

bucketybuck

Lord TSC wrote: »

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, but I would say it's dangerous to start playing semantics with quotes from someone whose English isn't perfect. There's been issues before with people trying to take LVG literally and analyzing his language like that.

Sure, but I can only discuss what is in front of us, confident that its all pretty meaningless.

StringerBell

bucketybuck wrote: »

I shall give your suggestion the time and consideration it deserves.

Hey I don't mind if you wanna keep making an ass of yourself, it doth butter no parsnips.

Nalz

StringerBell wrote: »

So you would look to blame others instinctively and refuse to consider any personal responsibility for your own work......great.

isn't that what LVG is doing :pac: in the press too I might add :pac:

Language aside I think he should ease off singling out players like that a little. It's kinda pointless and fruitless saying things in the press like that.

Reflect and deflect

Your Airbag

bangkok wrote: »

Well the main person it effects Bastian didn't seem to pleased with it....

Most people are not pleased or supposed to be pleased with criticism but Bastis job is too deal with it, he's an adult I'm sure he can cope.

Nalz wrote: »

I think he's issue is that he's too honest in this circumstance and too open in the media over it

While you're being open there Louis, explain your philosophy if ya can good lad

Too honest? The player was not preforming well and was told as much by his manager. That's being perfectly reasonably honest. Saying he said as much to the media isn't an issue either, we all know a manager would tell a player as much anyway, its not exactly shock news.

This being an issue here is funny. Would you rather LVG tell an under preforming player "well done lad, your doing just fine" and tell the media the player is wonderful?

Big rumors circulating Simeone to Chelsea next year. Gutted if true

Him or Ancellotti are my preferred choice @ Utd

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/Drasdo/status/699552373346344960/photo/1

bangkok

Your Airbag wrote: »

Most people are not pleased or supposed to be pleased with criticism but Bastis job is too deal with it, he's an adult I'm sure he can cope.



Too honest? The player was not preforming well and was told as much by his manager. That's being perfectly reasonably honest. Saying he said as much to the media isn't an issue either, we all know a manager would tell a player as much anyway, its not exactly shock news.

This being an issue here is funny. Would you rather LVG tell an under preforming player "well done lad, your doing just fine" and tell the media the player is wonderful?

schweinsteiger was just voted player of the month for November. He probably thought he was starting to get back to full fitness and form and then LVG says he was disappointed with him??

this was around the same time rooney was in awful form, Memphis had no form and other players were playing very poor as well so Bastian probably thought, **** that, why is he saying that to me.

bucketybuck

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Big rumors circulating Simeone to Chelsea next year. Gutted if true

Him or Ancellotti are my preferred choice @ Utd

I could have sworn I heard that Allegri was all but confirmed for Chelsea next season? On "Off the ball" or one of those talk shows. Maybe I dreamt it.

bangkok

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Big rumors circulating Simeone to Chelsea next year. Gutted if true

Him or Ancellotti are my preferred choice @ Utd

don't think he is suited to the job at all to be honest, it works for him at Athletico, can see Abramovic getting rid of him within 2 years. still has to learn english

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

don't think he is suited to the job at all to be honest, it works for him at Athletico, can see Abramovic getting rid of him within 2 years. still has to learn english

??

He has proven multiple times how good he is at getting the best out of his squads. I fear for what he could do with a team using a bigger budget.

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

I could have sworn I heard that Allegri was all but confirmed for Chelsea next season? On "Off the ball" or one of those talk shows. Maybe I dreamt it.

TBF I read that also.

The Simeone rumors are popping up everywhere only today.

Donnielighto

bucketybuck wrote: »

Nobody has called it negative, but the usual suspects won't let that stop their little digs regardless.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Butt was very successful in the role, for me the interesting questions come not from Butt himself, but from the process that put him there and what it means for the first team. The similarities between Butt and Giggs are too pronounced to pass without comment.

If that's in reference to my comment as well I was just pointing out that club legend isn't the reason to appoint anyone. I think he might be good but not for the reason Bangkok stated.

bangkok

M!Ck^ wrote: »

??

He has proven multiple times how good he is at getting the best out of his squads. I fear for what he could do with a team using a bigger budget.

he had a brilliant team at athletico that worked extremely hard, but in the end the biggest games they had were Real and Barca. throw in a winter break and the ease of the rest of the games they play along with no English I think he will struggle in England. Only time will tell.

also, he looks like a mafia drug lord :pac:

Your Airbag

bangkok wrote: »

schweinsteiger was just voted player of the month for November. He probably thought he was starting to get back to full fitness and form and then LVG says he was disappointed with him??

this was around the same time rooney was in awful form, Memphis had no form and other players were playing very poor as well so Bastian probably thought, **** that, why is he saying that to me.

LVG said he was dissapointed with him in December, we don't know what date in december but it was during a bad spell and LVG is right to say it.

Just because you had a good month doesn't mean you can put the feet up and coast it, you need to keep those levels up or expect your manager to call you on it.

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

he had a brilliant team at athletico that worked extremely hard, but in the end the biggest games they had were Real and Barca. throw in a winter break and the ease of the rest of the games they play along with no English I think he will struggle in England. Only time will tell.

also, he looks like a mafia drug lord :pac:

He's rebuilt them again and they are brilliant again.
They are three points off the top in La Liga!?
What about the Cup & CL performances? Barca & Real are not the only teams in the CL
He nearly won them the Champions League

You're really not giving him much credit tbf

Mitch Connor

Your Airbag wrote: »

LVG said he was dissapointed with him in December, we don't know what date in december but it was during a bad spell and LVG is right to say it.

We do know the date, the criticism was public.

http://www.espnfc.com/manchester-united/story/2748029/louis-van-gaal-criticises-bastian-schweinsteiger-performance

bangkok

M!Ck^ wrote: »

He's rebuilt them again and they are brilliant again.
They are three points off the top in La Liga!?
What about the Cup & CL performances? Barca & Real are not the only teams in the CL
He nearly won them the Champions League

You're really not giving him much credit tbf

don't get me wrong I think he has done a fantastic job with them, unbelievable job, but I think his style and personality is suited to them and I think he might struggle in the premier league, but again only time will tell