Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 Mod Note Post #2331

glued

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Jaysus lads I remember we were linked with james rodrigues there a few months ago.

No thanks.

Garbage.

Huh? He's been great since they sacked Rafa. Excellent player. How much of him have you watched over the past few months? He's exactly the kind of player that we lack.

Liam McPoyle

Canadel wrote: »

He was closer to him than not in terms of talent. Martial, while very good and a great talent, isn't remotely as good now as a lot of people say he is. No thanks, but I think a lot of people may be surprised. Martial may have to move away from Utd too if he wants success.

Canadel

I don't think it's unrealistic at all to mention that Martial might have to move on from Utd to find success? Welbeck had to (FA Cup already and potential PL title this season) but maybe you're right and Martial is so good that he can lead Utd to trophies. Let's see what the history books say.

bangkok

glued wrote: »

Huh? He's been great since they sacked Rafa. Excellent player. How much of him have you watched over the past few months? He's exactly the kind of player that we lack.

Is he? We need more pace in the team, is he better than mata? I doubt he is

raze_them_all_

Canadel wrote: »

I don't think it's unrealistic at all to mention that Martial might have to move on from Utd to find success? Welbeck had to (FA Cup already and potential PL title this season) but maybe you're right and Martial is so good that he can lead Utd to trophies. Let's see what the history books say.

Welbeck had to move away?? I think you don't know what got given the shove is

Liam O

Draxler was the big miss last Summer. Available for a good price, plenty of experience in a top league and still very young. Wolfsburg basically got €50m odd + Draxler for De Bruyne. Some deal.

Canadel

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

Welbeck had to move away?? I think you don't know what got given the shove is

First of all, while I agree that he was forced out due to the arrival of Falcao, it was still his decision to leave and seek success and more regular football elsewhere.

Secondly, what have Utd won since? What have Utd even threatened to win? Welbeck has won an FA Cup with a crucial winning goal in the semi final and has just recently scored a winning goal that could be crucial to Arsenal's chances of claiming the PL. He's also a regular starter when not injured, and was brought straight back into action at the weekend ahead of players who have been taking his place all season while injured like Campbell.

The reality is, Ferguson had huge faith in Welbeck as a footballer and as the kind of player you need in a title winning side. Wenger has similar faith in Welbeck, hence the signing and the regular game play when fit, plus the faith he has had in him throughout a long term injury by brining him on at the weekend when Arsenal needed a goal. The two most successful managers in premier league history both see Welbeck as an excellent footballer and both wanted him part of their title challenging sides.

Pro. F

Canadel wrote: »

He was closer to him than not in terms of talent. Martial, while very good and a great talent, isn't remotely as good now as a lot of people say he is. No thanks, but I think a lot of people may be surprised. Martial may have to move away from Utd too if he wants success.

Didn't think so. Despite what you say, you are obviously aware that Martial is miles better than Welbeck was at the same age.

Maximus Alexander

Pro. F wrote: »

Didn't think so. Despite what you say, you are obviously aware that Martial is miles better than Welbeck was at the same age.

He's also miles better than Welbeck is at present, or indeed, has been at any stage in his career.

Pro. F

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

He's also miles better than Welbeck is at present, or indeed, has been at any stage in his career.

This is true, but I was just keeping it simple for the sake of the argument.

Korat

It never ceases to amaze me how much of some opinions are obviously influenced by the UK media. Any time an English player has a decent game he's the best in the world, ignoring the fact that he's either been injured or ****e for most of his career up to that point.

Funnily enough while the UK press loves their Roy of the Rovers stories they take every opportunity to denigrate their most genuinely talented players. It's all about selling print I suppose but I wish people wouldn't regurgitate the crap they spout without taking an objective view of it first.

Welbeck is an injury prone mediocre footballer and Utd were right to move him on in my opinion, at the time. If he was Irish the UK press would have questioned how he deserved a move to Arsenal at all, much like when Shane Long was linked with Liverpool.

Canadel

Pro. F wrote: »

Didn't think so. Despite what you say, you are obviously aware that Martial is miles better than Welbeck was at the same age.

He's certainly not miles better. Anyway, I don't know why you are so desperate to compare how good the two were at that age. Welbeck has been excellent since then, even if his scoring record hasn't reflected it, and he is improving on that and will continue to do so as his confidence grows at Arsenal.

Korat wrote: »

It never ceases to amaze me how much of some opinions are obviously influenced by the UK media. Any time an English player has a decent game he's the best in the world, ignoring the fact that he's either been injured or ****e for most of his career up to that point.

Funnily enough while the UK press loves their Roy of the Rovers stories they take every opportunity to denigrate their most genuinely talented players. It's all about selling print I suppose but I wish people wouldn't regurgitate the crap they spout without taking an objective view of it first.

Welbeck is an injury prone mediocre footballer and Utd were right to move him on in my opinion, at the time. If he was Irish the UK press would have questioned how he deserved a move to Arsenal at all, much like when Shane Long was linked with Liverpool.

I don't think opinions on Welbeck are influenced by the UK media, and if they are it's probably due to his superb scoring record in international qualifiers before his injury. The goal on Sunday was a massive goal for Arsenal, and could be huge in the context of the league positions at the end of the season. Nobody is foolish enough to base their opinion of a player based on one goal, or on the musings of the UK media. People were just happy for Welbeck scoring on his return from a long term injury and because he's a likeable guy who is still fondly regarded by Utd fans. The reason discussion surrounding Welbeck has resurfaced is because many people, including Ferguson and Wenger, don't believe he is a mediocre footballer. And a lot of Utd fans don't believe he should have been moved on. It has nothing to do with the UK media building him up.

Korat

Welbeck's finishing and touch were terrible at Utd. Maybe the coaching he gets at Arsenal will improve those but right now he's a bang average player as far I'm concerned. If he doesn't improve and the international goals dry up then the press will turn on him the way they did with Emile Heskey, who was a player of a similar standard imo. They build them up to knock them down.

Canadel

Korat wrote: »

Welbeck's finishing and touch were terrible at Utd. Maybe the coaching he gets at Arsenal will improve those but right now he's a bang average player as far I'm concerned. If he doesn't improve and the international goals dry up then the press will turn on him the way they did with Emile Heskey, who was a player of a similar standard imo. They build them up to knock them down.

I have to disagree. Welbeck's touch has always been consistently tidy. One of his best traits is his technical ability in terms of touch, one two football and turning in tight spaces. If you combine this with his size and speed you have the making of a formidable player. His finishing has been his only failure, and I think people unfairly gauge the rest of his game based on this, including the way in which he has a tendency to fall over after shooting. His finishing isn't bad though, as you say he has proven he can score for England, and he had some good scoring spells at Utd, but really his problem is his positioning as a striker and finding himself in scoring opportunities. Wenger will work with him on that and he'll learn from Giroud too. All I know is, people who know a lot more about football and players than me, saw something in Welbeck and still see it. There's no way Ferguson would have allowed him leave Utd, and there's no way Wenger would have spent £16m on him if he didn't think he had something special.

Korat

Scoring international goals isn't necessarily the sign of a top class player. There have been great English players that just didn't suit international football like Matt LeTissier or Andy Cole, on the other hand David Healy scored loads of international goals, and maybe if he was English there'd have been Welbeck style hype about him too. I feel sorry for James Wilson as he's come through when Utd were in decline, he's struggled to make an impact because we're playing horrible football and he's not getting chances to play. Welbeck looked ok as part of a successful team and getting game time.

Liam McPoyle

Canadel wrote: »

He's certainly not miles better. Anyway, I don't know why you are so desperate to compare how good the two were at that age. Welbeck has been excellent since then, even if his scoring record hasn't reflected it, and he is improving on that and will continue to do so as his confidence grows at Arsenal.

I don't think opinions on Welbeck are influenced by the UK media, and if they are it's probably due to his superb scoring record in international qualifiers before his injury. The goal on Sunday was a massive goal for Arsenal, and could be huge in the context of the league positions at the end of the season. Nobody is foolish enough to base their opinion of a player based on one goal, or on the musings of the UK media. People were just happy for Welbeck scoring on his return from a long term injury and because he's a likeable guy who is still fondly regarded by Utd fans. The reason discussion surrounding Welbeck has resurfaced is because many people, including Ferguson and Wenger, don't believe he is a mediocre footballer. And a lot of Utd fans don't believe he should have been moved on. It has nothing to do with the UK media building him up.

Wellbeck is a striker.

He has been excellent.

Even though he has scored sod all in the PL.

Should a striker not be judged on goals (mainly)?

He did score in the FA cup semi final though which seemingly negates not scoring in every other competition.


Mario Balotelli has done well enough at international level and has had flashes of brilliance.

Would you consider him a great player like you do Wellbeck?

I doubt it.

You can say what you want but its pretty clear what your intentions have been since you started posting in here so there is no point wasting bandwidth interacting with you.

glued

bangkok wrote: »

Is he? We need more pace in the team, is he better than mata? I doubt he is

He's undoubtably better than Mata. He's quick with the ball at his feet. He'd easily walk into this side an improve it. His movement is also excellent.

Backstreet Moyes

Canadel wrote: »

I have to disagree. Welbeck's touch has always been consistently tidy. One of his best traits is his technical ability in terms of touch, one two football and turning in tight spaces. If you combine this with his size and speed you have the making of a formidable player. His finishing has been his only failure, and I think people unfairly gauge the rest of his game based on this, including the way in which he has a tendency to fall over after shooting. His finishing isn't bad though, as you say he has proven he can score for England, and he had some good scoring spells at Utd, but really his problem is his positioning as a striker and finding himself in scoring opportunities. Wenger will work with him on that and he'll learn from Giroud too. All I know is, people who know a lot more about football and players than me, saw something in Welbeck and still see it. There's no way Ferguson would have allowed him leave Utd, and there's no way Wenger would have spent £16m on him if he didn't think he had something special.

So what leaves Wellbeck down is getting into goal scoring positions and finishing.

Remind me again what a great striker should be good at.

Just to add you think he will also learn this from a decent striker Giroud when he didn't beside Rooney, hernandez andRVP my god.

The "Wonder"Becks keeps going!!

Anyone been watching this Joe Riley lad that was called up?
CBJ is injured

Cookie_Dough

M!Ck^ wrote: »

The "Wonder"Becks keeps going!!

Anyone been watching this Joe Riley lad that was called up?
CBJ is injured

Is he injured? I thought I read LVG said he was ill? I haven't watched the presser so I could be mistaken

Cookie_Dough

Cookie_Dough wrote: »

Is he injured? I thought I read LVG said he was ill? I haven't watched the presser so I could be mistaken

Apologies you are correct. I meant to say illness.

Cookie_Dough

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Apologies you are correct. I meant to say illness.

Glad he's not injured, he's impressed me so far. Hopefully he will be back in time to help us overcome the mighty Shrewsbury Town!

bangkok

glued wrote: »

He's undoubtably better than Mata. He's quick with the ball at his feet. He'd easily walk into this side an improve it. His movement is also excellent.

of course he would walk into our side, we are pretty **** in fairness. still don't think he is much better than mata if even better than him at all.

beno619

Nuts102 wrote: »

So what leaves Wellbeck down is getting into goal scoring positions and finishing.

Remind me again what a great striker should be good at.

Just to add you think he will also learn this from a decent striker Giroud when he didn't beside Rooney, hernandez andRVP my god.

Something I always look for is a striker is to perform even when he isn't scoring or getting chances he still has to contribute with assists, good hold up play and decent work rate.

Welbeck would generally put it a 7/10 performances.

bangkok

why do people consistently say Welbeck is a striker when he plays the majority of his games wide left or right on the pitch

van Nistelrooy was a striker, Welbeck is an attacking forward player

gosplan

Arsenal fan in peace.


I'm glad we got Welbeck but he's nowhere near the finished article. His finishing and awareness still need a lot if work.

However, much of what he lacks is made up for by his sheer athleticism. He's amazingly quick and strong for such a young and tall player.

Arsenal signed him out of sheer necessity when Giroud got injured the day before the deadline. We had a fair amount of goals in the team at the time so his presence and physicality alone we're maybe enough to tide us over.

As it stands though, he's really a sub option or first choice on the wing at times ... which still baffles me a bit.

I think the tight gameplay that LVG plays needs a good striker and I think Welbz would have been very unsuited to it.

That said results-based-thinking allows you to say that it hasn't worked and now with Rooney's injury, Welbeck would be most welcome.

However I think if you went back a couple of months, Utd were scoring and creating very little, Rooney was injured then and the two chances being created per game we're being missed by Welbeck, people would equally have been freaking out.

Irishcrx

Anyone know if the game is on TV tonight?

Irishcrx

Irishcrx wrote: »

Anyone know if the game is on TV tonight?

Think it was mentioned yesterday..Channel 5 I think??

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

why do people consistently say Welbeck is a striker when he plays the majority of his games wide left or right on the pitch

van Nistelrooy was a striker, Welbeck is an attacking forward player

Welbeck is a center forward always has been but its just he aint good enough to lead the line so he gets played out wide because he has a good work rate and energy.

jayo26

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Think it was mentioned yesterday..Channel 5 I think??

BT sports 2

bangkok

jayo26 wrote: »

Welbeck is a center forward always has been but its just he aint good enough to lead the line so he gets played out wide because he has a good work rate and energy.

so he is a good all round player then?

I think he is very good and has been a massive loss to us this season and last

Flint Fredstone

Irishcrx wrote: »

Anyone know if the game is on TV tonight?

BT only as far as I'm aware.

Julez

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

BT only as far as I'm aware.

Its also on Setanta Ireland.

bucketybuck

jayo26 wrote: »

Welbeck is a center forward always has been but its just he aint good enough to lead the line so he gets played out wide because he has a good work rate and energy.

I think that if Wellbeck had been at a different club and played constantly as a striker from age 20 to 25, then he would have developed into a far better player and would easily have a goal record as good as a Sturridge or Kane. He has all the raw ability, but in his formative years he rarely ever got to play as a striker for any meaningful length of time, he never got 20/25 games in a row playing as a striker and being allowed to grow into it, instead he had to fit in around Rooney and Van Persie and make do with what he could.

At this stage he may well be one of those that never reach their full potential, which is a shame but thats football.

A different discussion completely is if United should have sold him or not, and in my mind the answer is definitely "not". A young, English versatile attacker with a lot of potential sold to a direct rival for relative peanuts, that was just a stupid sale, not least because Wellbeck would actually be a great asset for this current United setup, with his workrate and flexibility he would suit us perfectly.

Flint Fredstone

Julez wrote: »

Its also on Setanta Ireland.

Ah right, I just lump that in with BT anyway as it's in the same package. I do forget that channel is available free on UPC.

Maximus Alexander

gosplan wrote: »

Arsenal fan in peace.


I'm glad we got Welbeck but he's nowhere near the finished article. His finishing and awareness still need a lot if work.

However, much of what he lacks is made up for by his sheer athleticism. He's amazingly quick and strong for such a young and tall player.

Arsenal signed him out of sheer necessity when Giroud got injured the day before the deadline. We had a fair amount of goals in the team at the time so his presence and physicality alone we're maybe enough to tide us over.

As it stands though, he's really a sub option or first choice on the wing at times ... which still baffles me a bit.

I think the tight gameplay that LVG plays needs a good striker and I think Welbz would have been very unsuited to it.

That said results-based-thinking allows you to say that it hasn't worked and now with Rooney's injury, Welbeck would be most welcome.

However I think if you went back a couple of months, Utd were scoring and creating very little, Rooney was injured then and the two chances being created per game we're being missed by Welbeck, people would equally have been freaking out.

I happen to like Welbeck and didn't particularly want him to leave. I thought he was a good option to have in the squad and I think Arsenal fans should be pleased to have him. However, for some reason his dad has come onto Boards and is way overstating his abilities and making him out to be in the world class bracket, which is hilariously wide of the mark.

I think your summary is pretty much dead on.

jayo26

bucketybuck wrote: »

I think that if Wellbeck had been at a different club and played constantly as a striker from age 20 to 25, then he would have developed into a far better player and would easily have a goal record as good as a Sturridge or Kane. He has all the raw ability, but in his formative years he rarely ever got to play as a striker for any meaningful length of time, he never got 20/25 games in a row playing as a striker and being allowed to grow into it, instead he had to fit in around Rooney and Van Persie and make do with what he could.

At this stage he may well be one of those that never reach their full potential, which is a shame but thats football.

A different discussion completely is if United should have sold him or not, and in my mind the answer is definitely "not". A young, English versatile attacker with a lot of potential sold to a direct rival for relative peanuts, that was just a stupid sale, not least because Wellbeck would actually be a great asset for this current United setup, with his workrate and flexibility he would suit us perfectly.

The thing is I don't think wellbeck is bad player or anything and yeh we shouldn't of sold him looking at the squad now but back when we did sell him we had rooney and rvp and falcao ahead of him now in hindsight wellbeck would of been better then the two latter players but who was to know that they were not gonna regain form under LVG.

We got 16 million for a decent player it was a good deal, not a fantastic deal but he was 4th choice and not a great scoring ratio.

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

so he is a good all round player then?

I think he is very good and has been a massive loss to us this season and last

He is a good all round player but that's all he is we got 16 million for him good deal.

The issue I have is this argument goes on for days and days and its a stupid argument because the biggest mistake of the past 2 years was leaving Chicharito go and that hardley ever gets a mention compaired to welbeck but ohh no thread spends day after day arguing about a center forward that didn't score enough goals.

Your Airbag

Zlatan would be keen on following Jose to OT apparently

http://www.90min.com/posts/2963220-ibrahimovic-keen-to-link-up-with-jose-mourinho-at-manchester-united?a_aid=35153

Lord TSC

Guardian saying Felaini is out with a hamstring tear and is out for several weeks....

Liam O

Tbh, I rate Welbeck quite highly. He's not a world beater, but in some massive games he has played like it. Off the striker against the likes Bayern and Real he's been a standout for United in the latter stages of the CL and performances like that live long in the memory for me. He's produced at major tournaments too so clearly knows how to perform in big games.

I think getting a run up front he'd do quite well, I don't know how much the last injury has affected him but if he's still the same player who left United then I think his finishing, while not world class by any means, could be very good along with the bad. His last season he had a very good run of games where he scored and I think he could have made a step up but obviously Falcao was going to change that and at the time it was probably the right move for everyone.

It may seem like reading this that I think he's better than I realise he is. I'd rate him as a very good big game player, who steps up when needed. He can blow hot and cold in terms of putting in that level throughout the season however. You see that with a lot of English players tbh.

The_Kew_Tour

We talk more about Welbeck past 18months then any United player I reckon.

Even Rooney, Martial and Carrick debates are finished within a day, Welbeck debates go on for days.

Why? I have no idea. Im all for people discussing whatever they like, but its Dizzy Roundabouts at this stage.

Liam O

Lord TSC wrote: »

Guardian saying Felaini is out with a hamstring tear and is out for several weeks....

Great, surely United will win all their games now, like when he came off against Southampton. And when he came off against Chelsea. And when he didn't play against Sunderland.

He was really holding the team back. Everything wrong with Woodward and Manchester United.

jayo26

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

We talk more about Welbeck past 18months then any United player I reckon.

Even Rooney, Martial and Carrick debates are finished within a day, Welbeck debates go on for days.

Why? I have no idea. Im all for people discussing whatever they like, but its Dizzy Roundabouts at this stage.

You forgot about nani

Maximus Alexander

Liam O wrote: »

Great, surely United will win all their games now, like when he came off against Southampton. And when he came off against Chelsea. And when he didn't play against Sunderland.

He was really holding the team back. Everything wrong with Woodward and Manchester United.

We're gonna win the league!

Maximus Alexander

jayo26 wrote: »

You forgot about nani

Don't mention Nani.

jayo26

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

We're gonna win the u21 league!

FYP

bangkok

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Don't mention Nani.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUIPbRJL27E

seems like a lifetime ago.... 6 mins in 2-0 up v Bayern Munich. Makes you realise how far we have fallen

Your Airbag

Fellaini now too? Christ, so much for that "state of the art medical clinic that can predict injuries 6 months before they happen" at Carrington.

I haven't seen this many men go down since the gay marriage referendum celebrations in temple bar.