Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 Mod Note Post #2331

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

I think your understanding about how much influence these journalists have is incorrect. Unless you are just saying that they have influence over other journalists.

I also think your view of how much popular support there is for the he idea of Giggs becoming next manager is incorrect.

You have also failed to address the fact that it was LVG who has been the most important source for the idea of Giggs being the next manager.

Yeah when I said influence, I meant on other journalists. Numerous mid ranking journalists will reference the higher ranking ones, or pundits, as some form of validation for their arguement Giggs should get the job.

I'm also pretty confident that from both the theme here on this forum, and in my circle of United supporting friends, there is little to no support for Giggs to get the job on a fulltime basis.

however that is the point I'm trying to convey here in text. The stories keep circulating, the opinion pieces keep coming. So whilst it is evident to us that on this forum and in our circle of friends that the idea is pretty outragous, there must be strong local support in the stadium or among the big supporter groups, or journalists would not keep pushing the narrative and shaping their opinion pieces around Giggs.

And I know Van Gaal said that Giggs would be the next manager, when Martial signed. But I didn't take that as anything anymore then Van Gaal supporting his assistant who has managerial aspirations, as many other managers have done. I didn't take it as some form of confirmation Giggs would be taking over

TheDoc

v3ttel wrote: »

On what basis is he casting a shadow?

The man has barely spoken to the media since the LVG has taken over. His role is largely behind the scenes. He's not ranting and raving (rightly or wrongly) and looking to be the center of attention during games. He is sitting quietly on the bench beside the man he is supposed to be helping.

As far as I can see, he's done nothing to bring attention to himself or undermine the manager.

It's the media who are pushing that agenda. He is a club legend, but he is not the right person to be the next manager based on his lack of experience. I don't buy the whole "Giggs is a distraction and casting a shadow" bollocks that the media are pushing. LVG is the biggest part of the problem.

But that is what I mean. It's allowed became a sideshow and a circus. Ex-players publicly supporting Giggs to replace Van Gaal. Frequent stories and opinion pieces on why Giggs should take over.

The fact we have had pages of debate since November about the validaty of Giggs taken over, is the consequence of the clamour I described. It's not coming from fans, but its coming from elsewhere.

All the Van Gaal sacked stories in December, all came with a mention of Giggs or some form or outline as to what he will be doing.

Aslong as Giggs continues on the bench, any manager that begins to flounder, will immediately have to start dealing with the issue of Giggs being a manager of waiting. It doesn't matter where it comes from, the issue is that it arises.

And the club are being extremely poor in dealing with it, and managing it.

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

Yeah when I said influence, I meant on other journalists. Numerous mid ranking journalists will reference the higher ranking ones, or pundits, as some form of validation for their arguement Giggs should get the job.

I'm also pretty confident that from both the theme here on this forum, and in my circle of United supporting friends, there is little to no support for Giggs to get the job on a fulltime basis.

however that is the point I'm trying to convey here in text. The stories keep circulating, the opinion pieces keep coming. So whilst it is evident to us that on this forum and in our circle of friends that the idea is pretty outragous, there must be strong local support in the stadium or among the big supporter groups, or journalists would not keep pushing the narrative and shaping their opinion pieces around Giggs.

And I know Van Gaal said that Giggs would be the next manager, when Martial signed. But I didn't take that as anything anymore then Van Gaal supporting his assistant who has managerial aspirations, as many other managers have done. I didn't take it as some form of confirmation Giggs would be taking over

I wouldn't take it as confirmation either, but it is just as likely to be the inspiration for these stories as anything else. I'd also be weary of the thought process that if the journos keep writing it then there must be support for the idea in the stadium or local area.

Pro. F

Doc, are you including suggestions for Giggs to be made caretaker manager as part of the clamour for him?

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

It is a fairly common sentiment that I have heard plenty of times from managers, coaches and executives; the idea that clubs should exercise healthy oversight in their operations; the importance of being stable, independent of any one manager and having consistent codes of practice that are followed. It is also a common sentiment in the world of management outside of football. I'm surprised that this would be a news to anybody, or that you would equate this idea with theories about power struggles at the club.

Managers accept oversight or they're not given jobs. It's a simple equation for them. And no, it wouldn't be presented as baldly as you describe.

This is very much news to me to be honest. I know the situation your are outlining, and I equate that to a club having resistant infrastructure that allows the club to remain competitive or strong while being resilient to a managerial change.

But I expect this to come in the form of a sporting director, a technical director, or answerable to the board of a club. That an assistant manager being in this position is extremely contradictory, as the assistant is effectively a subordinate to the manager, responsible for tasks delegated by the manager.

I find it hard to believe a top class manager would accept these sort of terms with that check of standards and practice coming from the assistant manager, as opposed to a sporting director or technical director.

I am confident that Fergie is responsible for the two managerial appointments. Given his history with those two managers and how he talked about the process of choosing Moyes I see no reason to believe that somebody else is calling the shots. His position on the board is irrelevant. If the shot callers want to they can pay anybody to choose the next manager for them.

This is contrary to what is being portrayed as accepted. While yes, I don't believe everything that is written and spoken, sometimes you have to accept somethings are so widely reported and accepted that it is most likely the case.

And that acceptance seems to be that Woodward appointed Van Gaal, and chose Van Gaal, and that Van Gaal's success or failure is representative directly onto Woodward himself. If Ferguson was the driving force behind Van Gaal, then I'm not sure why Woodward would be holding onto him, as it really is not reflection on himself, and I'd have expected Ferguson to be spoken much more directly about when reflections are made on the clubs hierarchy.

The narrative is very much Woodward and Van Gaal, Ferguson is not fitting into it anywhere[/quote]

I certainly hope that it is Fergie who is doing the choosing (preferable with some oversight from Charlton), I don't know why you would want anybody else at the club doing it.

I don't think this is an accepted view as you make out to be honest. I'm reacting to it very differently, maybe others can chime in here. But I'm under the impression Van Gaal was very much Woodwards choosing.

I think the view of Ferguson would drastically change among the fanbase, if it transpired that Ferguson was steadyfast in his recommendation of Moyes and Van Gaal, and that Woodward was effectively "carrying out orders". That would raise some serious question marks about Ferguson, his decision making, and his actual role in the clubs hierarchy.

Pretty much all the reporting is made up and clueless as to what is going on behind the scenes at United. You have said that many times yourself.

Your theories are based on these media stories.

Yes to an extent. But you are outlining statements that and indicating that it shouldn't be news to anyone, but your statements are effectively the first mention anywhere of this.

I have not once read, heard or watched a journalist, pundit, commentator or anything of the sort, indicate that Ferguson has been the decision maker behind Van Gaal. If so, surely HE would be the one where the targets are pointed towards, instead of Woodward. No ?

I hope I'm conveying this properly and understanding what you are saying.

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

Doc, are you including suggestions for Giggs to be made caretaker manager as part of the clamour for him?

Yes

Trigger

Is there going to be a press conference at all before the FA Cup game?

kstand

astradave wrote: »

Is there going to be a press conference at all before the FA Cup game?

It is a disgrace that there hasnt been anything from the club in the last few months in relation to the total and utter shambles out on the field.

Trigger

kstand wrote: »

It is a disgrace that there hasnt been anything from the club in the last few months in relation to the total and utter shambles out on the field.

What the hell has that got to do with the question I asked? :pac:

Classic kstand..

dundalkfc10

Reading this thread, is hilarious.

Some of the posters are obviously touched!

v3ttel

TheDoc wrote: »

But that is what I mean. It's allowed became a sideshow and a circus. Ex-players publicly supporting Giggs to replace Van Gaal. Frequent stories and opinion pieces on why Giggs should take over.

The fact we have had pages of debate since November about the validaty of Giggs taken over, is the consequence of the clamour I described. It's not coming from fans, but its coming from elsewhere.

All the Van Gaal sacked stories in December, all came with a mention of Giggs or some form or outline as to what he will be doing.

Aslong as Giggs continues on the bench, any manager that begins to flounder, will immediately have to start dealing with the issue of Giggs being a manager of waiting. It doesn't matter where it comes from, the issue is that it arises.

And the club are being extremely poor in dealing with it, and managing it.

Most of that post is pretty meaningless IMHO. Giggs can't control what the media write nor can the club.

He hasn't created the situation. We can't see from outside the club if he is doing a good or bad job in his role as assistant. We don't see what he does day to day. He should be left alone and not painted as the problem unless there is some proof of that.

The only situation that has been handled badly is that fact that LVG is still at the club when it's clear he can't turn this around. Things are just going from bad to worse with no end in sight.

Trigger

Well thank **** for that

http://twitter.com/DuckerTheTimes/status/700709801882292225

The Daily Star jumping the gun again!

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/495689/Manchester-United-Transfer-News-Jose-Mourinho-Louis-van-Gaal

Mitch Connor

zorro2566 wrote: »

The Daily Star jumping the gun again!

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/495689/Manchester-United-Transfer-News-Jose-Mourinho-Louis-van-Gaal

No, they are reporting what football insider have said.

Lord TSC

Jose speaks...

Jose Mourinho: "I'm not looking for a club, clubs are looking for me. I want to clarify, I won’t be in charge at Inter next season."
Mourinho: “My next club? I really don’t know, but one thing is certain: I love football and I’ll return to the touchline."
Mourinho: “Right now I have respect for every Coach and every club. I’m not looking for a club, it’s the clubs who are looking for me.”

https://twitter.com/UnitedPeoplesTV/status/700715952376303616

Funny how quick he's come out to deny the links to Inter, but not a word about United

Liam McPoyle

Lord TSC wrote: »

Jose speaks...

Jose Mourinho: "I'm not looking for a club, clubs are looking for me. I want to clarify, I won’t be in charge at Inter next season."
Mourinho: “My next club? I really don’t know, but one thing is certain: I love football and I’ll return to the touchline."
Mourinho: “Right now I have respect for every Coach and every club. I’m not looking for a club, it’s the clubs who are looking for me.”

https://twitter.com/UnitedPeoplesTV/status/700715952376303616

Funny how quick he's come out to deny the links to Inter, but not a word about United

Oh he is a saucy bastard!

Trigger

Lord TSC wrote: »

Jose speaks...

Jose Mourinho: "I'm not looking for a club, clubs are looking for me. I want to clarify, I won’t be in charge at Inter next season."
Mourinho: “My next club? I really don’t know, but one thing is certain: I love football and I’ll return to the touchline."
Mourinho: “Right now I have respect for every Coach and every club. I’m not looking for a club, it’s the clubs who are looking for me.”

https://twitter.com/UnitedPeoplesTV/status/700715952376303616

Funny how quick he's come out to deny the links to Inter, but not a word about United

The full post is by Castles again.

http://twitter.com/DuncanCastles/status/700720943245557761

jayo26

Lord TSC wrote: »

Jose speaks...

Jose Mourinho: "I'm not looking for a club, clubs are looking for me. I want to clarify, I won’t be in charge at Inter next season."
Mourinho: “My next club? I really don’t know, but one thing is certain: I love football and I’ll return to the touchline."
Mourinho: “Right now I have respect for every Coach and every club. I’m not looking for a club, it’s the clubs who are looking for me.”

https://twitter.com/UnitedPeoplesTV/status/700715952376303616

Funny how quick he's come out to deny the links to Inter, but not a word about United

Sky have only been talking about him to balague a half hour ago im surprised they aint all over this if it's actual quotes from him.

Headshot

astradave wrote: »

The full post is by Castles again.

http://twitter.com/DuncanCastles/status/700720943245557761

Didnt he say Inter wanted Jose for the job or somthing along those lines

Good auld Castles, found out again. What a troll

Trigger

Headshot wrote: »

Didnt he say Inter wanted Jose for the job or somthing along those lines

Good auld Castles, found out again. What a troll

Well he said they would talk as he looks to get back to work.. he has basically contradicted himself in the space of a couple of days..

TheTownie

Headshot wrote: »

Didnt he say Inter wanted Jose for the job or somthing along those lines

Good auld Castles, found out again. What a troll

He said Jose was meeting with Moratti which he did. I think his article said Inter was an option for Jose. Journo's consistently word their articles so they can claim both they had both the scoop and backtrack if necessary.

Now Jose is obviously going to say that meeting was just to catch up with Moratti but who knows what was really discussed nor does it matter really.

Its the journo's who speak definitively that are interesting. Might as well ignore the likes of Duncan Castles until they do likewise.

Strumms

Still cant believe LVG hasnt been turfed out yet... if his replacment isnt available till the summer we can get by with a caretaker we just need a change... what the fůck is the benefit of keeping this guy on... beyond a joke now... been travelling and on and off wifi and have been logging on sporadicially hoping if not expecting the welcome headline 'Louis Van Gone'.

homerjay2005

astradave wrote: »

Well thank **** for that

http://twitter.com/DuckerTheTimes/status/700709801882292225

Hmmm good news of course, but we are s*it with or without him.

Romeros performance in goal this season is quite good apart from the Swansea game.

I doubt we would be much worse off without DDG considering we've won 1/3 of our games in the last 3 months anyway with him in the team.

You could also argue that DDG has made a few big and costly f*ck ups, most notably last weekend and Bournemouth.

Manutd_4life

How much longer until this is reality??

hufpc8w3adnk65

Manutd_4life wrote: »

How much longer until this is reality??

Yes he's a short term (so far in his career) manager but we really need someone of his proven quaility too come in Help the team rebuild and improve the confidence of the players who stay. For all the talk of his second stint at Chelsea he's left a very good side which Hiddink has playing well. I wouldn't mind two or three good seasons with Jose picking up a few trophys and if he goes into meltdown then in a few years move him on. Surely his meltdown couldn't be worse then the one under LVG currently

sReq | uTeK

Pro. F wrote: »

I'm glad Giggs was put into the management team by the board. LVG was relatively unknown. Like he was famous and Fergie knew and respected him, but Fegie wouldn't have known as much about him as he would most managers working in England. Fergie wouldn't have had so much of the inside track on him.

There is a strong possibility when you appoint a new manager that he could get up to some dodgy behaviour - doping, bungs, etc - and with one that you know less about that risk is increased. So I think putting one of your own into the management team to keep an eye on things is a good idea. I also think that it is relatively common practice in football, whether with assistant's who are club men, or with structures that control the football operation above the manager (probably not really United's model).

So Giggs's role has been very important imo. If a new manager comes in, and Giggs isn't going to be there, then I expect another appointment of his type. That is unless the new manager is somebody Fergie knows enough about to trust completely.

Absolute ridiculous post, I wasn't aware a coach who had achieved as much as LVG was A: an unknown entity and B: had ties to doping and bungs throughout his career and required a full time snitch to be appointed at his side.

I'm sure the homework was done before he was appointed.

hufpc8w3adnk65

Manutd_4life wrote: »

How much longer until this is reality??

We need a shop job too turn the shirt white and the tie red lads!

All over SSN

Headline on Jose

Lord TSC

M!Ck^ wrote: »

All over SSN

Headline on Jose

Whats this? Just reporting his comments from earlier?

Lord TSC

Lord TSC wrote: »

Whats this? Just reporting his comments from earlier?

Yep, it looks like they have jumped on it

Lord TSC

Joe.co.uk makes their case for who the next manager should be...

http://www.joe.co.uk/sport/opinion-why-rachel-riley-should-be-considered-for-the-manchester-united-job/43498

Oranage2

Would there be an advantage to bringing Jose in now then waiting till the end of the season? I really dont think he could improve the team much is the short time.

Lord TSC

Lord TSC wrote: »

Joe.co.uk makes their case for who the next manager should be...

http://www.joe.co.uk/sport/opinion-why-rachel-riley-should-be-considered-for-the-manchester-united-job/43498

I agree with this article

Kerrydude1981

Oranage2 wrote: »

Would there be an advantage to bringing Jose in now then waiting till the end of the season? I really dont think he could improve the team much is the short time.

Bringing him in before the end of the season would give him a chance to assess the squad and see what players he wants to keep and what players that need to go and all of this in competitive games,that has to be an advantage

Be better then bringing him in and going on a summer tour with half a squad while the players coming back from the Euro's will be extended summer break

Trigger

Lord TSC wrote: »

Joe.co.uk makes their case for who the next manager should be...

http://www.joe.co.uk/sport/opinion-why-rachel-riley-should-be-considered-for-the-manchester-united-job/43498

Somewhere in Ireland Homer has thrown his shopping/pint/child on the ground in search of a computer screen

mewe

Jose normally would only stay for 2 years or that at a club alright but I firmly believe if he got the chance at United and things worked out well he would stay for a very long time. Everyone knows he really wanted the job when Fergie retired and I would say he was in for the long haul then if he got the job too.

jayo26

astradave wrote: »

Somewhere in Ireland Homer has thrown his shopping/pint/child on the ground in search of a computer screen

That has the hallmark of brinty all over it.

Lord TSC

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/feb/19/louis-van-gaal-manchester-united-jose-mourinho?CMP=share_btn_tw

Jamie Jackson says an "influential" group of senior players have lost faith in LVG and want Jose in to replace him.

billyhead

Jose should be offered the job now as he can as already mentioned assess the squad and plan for the summer transfer market. Theres nothing to lose from appointing him and he may just give everyone a lift around the club as the club is turning into an embarrassment. Ed is no use as a football man. Yes great for the commercial side of things and getting sponsorship money but in the transfer market hes incompetent. The Glazers really need to get rid of LVG now. Surely with the North stand having to be closed Monday they will realise this

Mitch Connor

Lord TSC wrote: »

Joe.co.uk makes their case for who the next manager should be...

http://www.joe.co.uk/sport/opinion-why-rachel-riley-should-be-considered-for-the-manchester-united-job/43498

can't stand that fella - don't think he has ever had a thought he hasn't put on twitter.

Trigger

Mitch Connor wrote: »

can't stand that fella - don't think he has ever had a thought he hasn't put on twitter.

Rachel Riley is a bloke???:eek::eek:

Liam McPoyle

Ballbag on Sky saying that Jose's comments are a come and get me before someone else does to United.

For once I'd be inclined to agree with him.

Hopefully we don't act the bollox and let another top class manager slip through our fingers again.

xtal191

Mitch Connor wrote: »

can't stand that fella - don't think he has ever had a thought he hasn't put on twitter.

Cant stand all those Joe websites

adox

Lord TSC wrote: »

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/feb/19/louis-van-gaal-manchester-united-jose-mourinho?CMP=share_btn_tw

Jamie Jackson says an "influential" group of senior players have lost faith in LVG and want Jose in to replace him.

You know, as ****e as Utd have been this season, last night was the first time I thought that they really weren't trying. Other times they have looked clueless, out of ideas, even ponderous but not like they weren't trying, if that makes sense.

Last night felt like they were just going through the motions.

J. Marston

adox wrote: »

You know, as ****e as Utd have been this season, last night was the first time I thought that they really weren't trying. Other times they have looked clueless, out of ideas, even ponderous but not like they weren't trying, if that makes sense.

Last night felt like they were just going through the motions.

It was obvious. Look at this...

https://gfycat.com/HeavenlyKnobbyBuffalo.gif

Token effort and then "Couldn't be arsed." People will say Van Gaal has broken their spirit or whatever but that doesn't wash with me.

billyhead

Breaking News. LVG has been sacked:eek:

mewe

Lord TSC wrote: »

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/feb/19/louis-van-gaal-manchester-united-jose-mourinho?CMP=share_btn_tw

Jamie Jackson says an "influential" group of senior players have lost faith in LVG and want Jose in to replace him.

Say the catchphrase goddamnit!!

madcabbage

billyhead wrote: »

Breaking News. LVG has been sacked:eek:

Get out, and take your coat with you! :mad:

Lord TSC

Lord TSC wrote: »

Joe.co.uk makes their case for who the next manager should be...

http://www.joe.co.uk/sport/opinion-why-rachel-riley-should-be-considered-for-the-manchester-united-job/43498

Giggs definitely has to go if that's happening :pac:

Trigger

Seems like a briefing of some sort anyways. To go with Jacksons story

https://twitter.com/MirrorFootball/status/700758277408301056?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

https://twitter.com/ManUtdMEN/status/700772146247696385