Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 Mod Note Post #2331

Trigger

billyhead wrote: »

Breaking News. LVG has been sacked:eek:

That thread on the Caf is great craic! :pac:

Mitch Connor

astradave wrote: »

Seems like a briefing of some sort anyways. To go with Jacksons story

https://twitter.com/MirrorFootball/status/700758277408301056?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

https://twitter.com/ManUtdMEN/status/700772146247696385

Its not a briefing - least not from Woodward or Mendes/Mourinho.

jayo26

astradave wrote: »

Seems like a briefing of some sort anyways. To go with Jacksons story

https://twitter.com/MirrorFootball/status/700758277408301056?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

https://twitter.com/ManUtdMEN/status/700772146247696385

God damn you there is my weekend gone

Trigger

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Its not a briefing - least not from Woodward or Mendes/Mourinho.

Probably more of a collusion between themselves

Cantona's Collars

StringerBell

I remember when Mendes was Fergie's best friend, that man has made some money from the club over the years.

Aidric

That Jackson article is no better than the clickbait rubbish posted by ITK's on twitter, nothing of substance.

J. Marston

Should United lose to League One Shrewsbury in the FA Cup on Monday, exit the Europa League and be cast further adrift in the race for a top-four place when they host Arsenal the following Sunday, Van Gaal's position will be untenable.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/manchester-united-make-desperate-plea-7404206

Really laying his neck on the line there. McDonnell hasn't a clue.

bangkok

Lord TSC wrote: »

Jose speaks...

Jose Mourinho: "I'm not looking for a club, clubs are looking for me. I want to clarify, I won’t be in charge at Inter next season."
Mourinho: “My next club? I really don’t know, but one thing is certain: I love football and I’ll return to the touchline."
Mourinho: “Right now I have respect for every Coach and every club. I’m not looking for a club, it’s the clubs who are looking for me.”

https://twitter.com/UnitedPeoplesTV/status/700715952376303616

Funny how quick he's come out to deny the links to Inter, but not a word about United

That's because he was invited to inter game this weekend and met with president so was asked was he going to take over at inter.

Imagine he turned up at our next home game v Arsenal and was asked the same question....

IamtheWalrus

Utd have sent an SOS to Jose after the Midtjylland defeat? So before the defeat Jose wasn't needed? :rolleyes:

Cantona's Collars

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Utd have sent an SOS to Jose after the Midtjylland defeat? So before the defeat Jose wasn't needed? :rolleyes:

billyhead

J. Marston wrote: »

Really laying his neck on the line there. McDonnell hasn't a clue.

You dont say McDonnell:rolleyes:

alchemist33

astradave wrote: »

That thread on the Caf is great craic! :pac:

I snorted for minutes at

Ban him and set fire to his sheep!

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/JamieJackson___/status/700769625475141632

https://twitter.com/samuelluckhurst/status/700768818440880128

Did Van Gaal not say if he ever thought he lost the dressing room he would walk?

Time to go Louis

Cantona's Collars

Deleted User wrote: »

Did Van Gaal not say if he ever thought he lost the dressing room he would walk?

Time to go Louis

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/10089448/manchester-united-boss-louis-van-gaal-would-leave-if-he-lost-the-dressing-room

Pro. F

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Absolute ridiculous post, I wasn't aware a coach who had achieved as much as LVG was A: an unknown entity and B: had ties to doping and bungs throughout his career and required a full time snitch to be appointed at his side.

I'm sure the homework was done before he was appointed.

I did not say or imply that he was an unknown entity. In fact, I gave a reasonably detailed explanation of my understanding of how well he would have been known to the club and Fergie in particular (since it seems like he would be the most well informed at the club).

The new manager (LVG in this case) doesn't need to have "ties" to anything, in order for it to be sensible for the club to exercise caution. Football is awash with things like doping, financial shenanigans and all sorts, so the risk is there with any new appointment. You yourself suggest that the club would do their homework, so you realise that this is true. I suggest that there is not that much homework you can do when investigating a manager, especially one who has never worked in England (with English based managers, at least there's a more extensive connection with Fergie's network of ex players and coaches). And so imo it would also be a good idea to set up a structure that will help ensure the new manager behaves in the way you want him to.

homerjay2005

The angle being touted about giggs is interesting. Not sure it's something Giggs could or should be blamed for as I think most in his position would do the same.

One may say that Ferguson could be a critical factor but I guess nobody knows, it's all just speculation. It does se like there's a huge gap and problem behind the scenes though which is why LVG has not been sacked.

jimmytwotimes 2013

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/12165610/How-were-Manchester-United-humiliated-by-FC-Midtjylland-and-will-Louis-van-Gaal-be-able-to-escape-the-sack.html


Nothing happening according to this (Sam Wallace)

homerjay2005

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/12165610/How-were-Manchester-United-humiliated-by-FC-Midtjylland-and-will-Louis-van-Gaal-be-able-to-escape-the-sack.html


Nothing happening according to this (Sam Wallace)

Not only states nothing happening, but goes further to say nothing is even in the process of happening.

This staying loyal stuff is bizzare.

jayo26

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/12165610/How-were-Manchester-United-humiliated-by-FC-Midtjylland-and-will-Louis-van-Gaal-be-able-to-escape-the-sack.html


Nothing happening according to this (Sam Wallace)

Thats it settled then it's definitely happening.

Cantona's Collars

jayo26

The one thing that is clear about united is the english press havent a clue none of them stories are probably based on anything other then guesswork. The stories claiming they are panicking and want jose are going on results and assuming the board won't take much more and on the other hand the papers saying Woodward is staying loyal are going on the fact that they would of sacked him by now.

Danye

Hi lads,

Off topic, but is anybody in the Dublin branch of the supporters club??

I'm one of only 2 or 3 of United fans out of my mates it's a pain trying to organise trips over to games. If I was in the supporters club would it make it easier to get to games? Would it matter if I travelled on my own with like minded individuals?

Any info greatly appreciated.

Cheers.

Cantona's Collars

jayo26 wrote: »

The one thing that is clear about united is the english press havent a clue none of them stories are probably based on anything other then guesswork. The stories claiming they are panicking and want jose are going on results and assuming the board won't take much more and on the other hand the papers saying Woodward is staying loyal are going on the fact that they would of sacked him by now.

The 3 match sacking clock was reset,now we are heading for match 3 in the next timescale:last Saturday,last night and Monday night to come.Imagine the embarrassment if Shrewsbury beat us.

hufpc8w3adnk65

zerks wrote: »

Please God!!! ðŸ‘ðŸ»ðŸ‘ðŸ»

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

This is very much news to me to be honest. I know the situation your are outlining, and I equate that to a club having resistant infrastructure that allows the club to remain competitive or strong while being resilient to a managerial change.

But I expect this to come in the form of a sporting director, a technical director, or answerable to the board of a club. That an assistant manager being in this position is extremely contradictory, as the assistant is effectively a subordinate to the manager, responsible for tasks delegated by the manager.

There is nothing contradictory about subordinate staff observing and, just by being there, positively influencing their boss' behaviour. In fact it is standard organisational practice. It seems like you're thinking that that type of interaction could only happen with overt expressions of power, but that's not the case.

TheDoc wrote: »

I find it hard to believe a top class manager would accept these sort of terms with that check of standards and practice coming from the assistant manager, as opposed to a sporting director or technical director.

You are talking as if the situation would be presented to the prospective manager in an incompetently clumsy way.

Do you find it hard to believe that a top class manager would accept having a man from the club employed to work on his coaching staff? If not, then you can imagine a way that it would be possible to place a club man in a position of working closely with the new manager. And let's not forget, that is what has happened here - LVG has taken the job and has accepted having Giggs working on his staff.

TheDoc wrote: »

This is contrary to what is being portrayed as accepted. While yes, I don't believe everything that is written and spoken, sometimes you have to accept somethings are so widely reported and accepted that it is most likely the case.

And that acceptance seems to be that Woodward appointed Van Gaal, and chose Van Gaal, and that Van Gaal's success or failure is representative directly onto Woodward himself. If Ferguson was the driving force behind Van Gaal, then I'm not sure why Woodward would be holding onto him, as it really is not reflection on himself, and I'd have expected Ferguson to be spoken much more directly about when reflections are made on the clubs hierarchy.

The narrative is very much Woodward and Van Gaal, Ferguson is not fitting into it anywhere.

"The narrative," "What is being portrayed as accepted" - You cannot be serious about using these things to gauge what is likely to be true. These things are not a good measure of what is true, nor a good indication of what is a sensible interpretation of the available information. In fact, the narrative that the press spins is often completely false.

Your theory that Woodward doesn't want to fire LVG because it would reflect badly on him is based on this supposed press narrative and, even at that, it is a reach. Keeping LVG in charge reflects badly on Woodward as well, so there's no more reason to believe that Woodward would want to keep LVG on, in order to make himself look better, than there is to believe that Woodward wants LVG gone.

TheDoc wrote: »

I don't think this is an accepted view as you make out to be honest. I'm reacting to it very differently, maybe others can chime in here. But I'm under the impression Van Gaal was very much Woodwards choosing.

I think the view of Ferguson would drastically change among the fanbase, if it transpired that Ferguson was steadyfast in his recommendation of Moyes and Van Gaal, and that Woodward was effectively "carrying out orders". That would raise some serious question marks about Ferguson, his decision making, and his actual role in the clubs hierarchy.

I didn't present it as an accepted view at all. I said that I hope Fergie is the one making the decisions on managers and I said that I don't know why you would want anybody else at the club doing it.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the most popular view among the fan base would be generally negative towards Fergie if they believed he was the one making the decisions on managers. I don't see how that is of any relevance to anything.

TheDoc wrote: »

Yes to an extent. But you are outlining statements that and indicating that it shouldn't be news to anyone, but your statements are effectively the first mention anywhere of this.

I have not once read, heard or watched a journalist, pundit, commentator or anything of the sort, indicate that Ferguson has been the decision maker behind Van Gaal. If so, surely HE would be the one where the targets are pointed towards, instead of Woodward. No ?

I hope I'm conveying this properly and understanding what you are saying.

I did not say that Fergie being responsible for the two managerial appointments should not be news to anyone.

It's not important in the slightest whether or not any journalists have said that Fergie is the decision maker behind LVG's hiring/firing.

If the best reading of the evidence points towards Fergie being the one calling the shots on managers (as I think is the case) then, yes, the logical conclusion would be that any ire about these hirings and (lack of) firings should be directed at him. But good reading of the available information and logical drawing of conclusions is not how the press come up with these types of stories.

alchemist33

Danye wrote: »

Hi lads,

Off topic, but is anybody in the Dublin branch of the supporters club??

I'm one of only 2 or 3 of United fans out of my mates it's a pain trying to organise trips over to games. If I was in the supporters club would it make it easier to get to games? Would it matter if I travelled on my own with like minded individuals?

Any info greatly appreciated.

Cheers.

Dunno about Dublin but Donegal branch used to have four season tickets members could book and use, and they organised four trips for a busload of members per year. Definitely an option if youve nobody to go with.

Strumms

alchemist33 wrote: »

Dunno about Dublin but Donegal branch used to have four season tickets members could book and use, and they organised four trips for a busload of members per year. Definitely an option if youve nobody to go with.

I know a good few of the donegal lads... sound enough as it goes in terms of hooking up folks with spares they are not using. Go on toutless.com and check what's available and get your spoke in. Also I'd recommend buying a membership package. You Will have access to tickets for all cup games and the less desirable PL ones... Done a few solo trips to games as I do a lot of work in Manchester but it's always good to know a few heads and who is travelling and what not... Always a great day out.

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

Yes

That explains it then. The thing you are describing as "clamour for Giggs to take over" would be better described as clamour for LVG to be sacked. If Giggs wasn't an obvious candidate to take the caretaker role then the people clamouring for LVG to be sacked would just find somebody else, or they wouldn't even bother with the idea of a caretaker.

When a manager delivers results and football as bad as LVG has at a club as big and rich as United then there is no way there is not going to be a clamour for his sacking.

Rayne Wooney

Difficult to see what Mourinho would have to lose by taking over now instead of the summer if indeed that is the situation at the moment, the fans are not going to expect anything from this season and I think we're safe from relegation at the moment

Korat

I don't know if it's been mentioned here already but I was just reading about the ejector clause in David Moyes' contract. When it became mathematically impossible to qualify for the CL the club could sack him and only pay him one year's compensation. That was all very well in Moyes' case as he hadn't been in the job very long.

But I have a horrible feeling the reason LVG hasn't been sacked already is because Woodward is waiting to activate the same clause in LVG's contract. That seems insane given how badly wrong things have been going for months now but it would make complete sense for someone like Ed Woodward, saving money is more important than the team. I might cut him some slack and hypothesise that he’s already under orders from the Glazers to cut staff costs and is afraid for his own job if he’s seen to be going against their instructions.

What kind of a f*cked up club has it become where such things are even plausible.

duffman13

Korat wrote: »

I don't know if it's been mentioned here already but I was just reading about the ejector clause in David Moyes' contract. When it became mathematically impossible to qualify for the CL the club could sack him and only pay him one year's compensation. That was all very well in Moyes' case as he hadn't been in the job very long.

But I have a horrible feeling the reason LVG hasn't been sacked already is because Woodward is waiting to activate the same clause in LVG's contract. That seems insane given how badly wrong things have been going for months now but it would make complete sense for someone like Ed Woodward, saving money is more important than the team. I might cut him some slack and hypothesise that he’s already under orders from the Glazers to cut staff costs and is afraid for his own job if he’s seen to be going against their instructions.

What kind of a f*cked up club has it become where such things are even plausible.

I really dont think its the case this time. Moyes was on a 6 year contract, it possibly saved the club 10-15 million depending on what Moyes was on by sacking him with that clause however if the same clause is in LVGs contract it doesnt make sense as he only has a year remaining on his deal. Its not a money exercise to not sack him, just an exercise in sheer stupidity.

jayo26

Korat wrote: »

I don't know if it's been mentioned here already but I was just reading about the ejector clause in David Moyes' contract. When it became mathematically impossible to qualify for the CL the club could sack him and only pay him one year's compensation. That was all very well in Moyes' case as he hadn't been in the job very long.

But I have a horrible feeling the reason LVG hasn't been sacked already is because Woodward is waiting to activate the same clause in LVG's contract. That seems insane given how badly wrong things have been going for months now but it would make complete sense for someone like Ed Woodward, saving money is more important than the team. I might cut him some slack and hypothesise that he’s already under orders from the Glazers to cut staff costs and is afraid for his own job if he’s seen to be going against their instructions.

What kind of a f*cked up club has it become where such things are even plausible.

I really don't think it's about his contract, its either that the club dont care about results or else the youth setup review and behind the scene work is mostly coming from lvg and they value his input so much in that to the extent they are gambling this season of football on lvg.

Leroy42

Yeah, I agree, the lack of sacking has nothing to do with money. It has got to do with Ed and the board not wanting to look like failures.

The Moyes disaster could be levelled at SAF, he picked him and the club went with him. LVG was Ed's man, so to dispense with him is to admit that they got it terribly wrong.

On top of that is the reluctance to give the job to Jose. People in the club (SAF, Gill & BC for starters) are all against it and so Ed is faced with having to go against their wishes and so really put his neck on the line That is a big risk to take and so seems to have resulted in the whole thing being frozen by fear, hoping beyond any evidence that LVG can turn things around.

Funnily, their is no way Ed would let a business transaction fail so completely and just let it continue, action would be taken.

bucketybuck

Korat wrote: »

When it became mathematically impossible to qualify for the CL the club could sack him and only pay him one year's compensation.

So we would only have to pay Van Gaal a years compensation, instead of the year and 4 whole months that we would have to pay him right now...

Lord TSC

Ducker - Giggs has "serious reservations" over being an interim manager and also has misgivings over being Jose's assistant

Mark Ogden - Manchester United players increasingly fed up with Louis van Gaal's odd tactics as micro-manager tells them not to shoot first time

MEN - Manchester United manager facing three games to save his job

Korat

You wonder what the mood of the players will be like when it becomes a mathematical certainty that they're getting a 25% pay-cut because the club won't be playing in the CL next season. Fully deserved but I can imagine some players sulking about it, especially younger ones who like buying Rolls-Royces.

Leroy42

In any other 'top' club (of which Utd are no longer part of based on results) the manager would have been sacked. Take RM for example. Not a good example for continuity, but it was clear that Rafa was not going to work out (not sure why they ever appointed him) and they moved him on. No waiting around hoping. Got a terrible result against Barca and he was out the door.

In the last few months we have been beaten by Norwich, Stoke, Sunderland and the Europa cup disaster. And nothing. The team has not shown are real signs of improvement. Yes there have been glimpses of more attacking intent but that has been matched by a complete disintegration of our defense. We have a manager who seems to have only one way of playing and is incapable of any adjustment to that regardless of the actual happenings on the pitch.

In LVG's defence, the injuries has been unbelievable. 13 top team players are gone. Imagine taking that out of any of Leicster, Arsenal, Spurs or City. They are each heavily dependent on one or two players (Aguero, Costa, Mahrez etc) so that level of injuries, and the sustained nature of it will have an impact on any team.

But even with his full team playing, LVG's style is one that has not shown any signs of being able to provide anything close to the level required.

The top of the club is paralysed by indecision. That, even more than the results on the pitch, is the most worrying. Any team can suffer a drop in form, an injury crisis etc, but you can normally be assured that behind the scenes the right things are being done that will remedy the situation. I have the feeling that behind the scenes Utd are simply looking on aghast and hoping that LVG can turn it around so that they can all get back to worrying about shirt sales and not waste their time thinking about football.

On a final point, SAF and Gill should be removed from the club. They did a great job, but opted to step down from that job and should give the people remaining the respect to stay out of it. SAF in particular cast a massive shadow over Moyes and continues to do so even with LVG. You have your stand and your statue, you have your legacy and the respect and every Utd fan, but its time to step aside and let the new era happen without you. This includes getting rid of Giggs, The class of 92 were awesome, but WERE is the word.

We can continue to live in the past like Liverpool or look to the future and focus on the risks from City and Arsenal and the changing environment of the EPL. No doubt Ed W is a genius in the business world, Utd will soon be the 1st club to generate 500m in a year, but we need to harness that to deliver results. With that massive advantage in revenue we should be aiming to be winning 10 CL trophies in the next 15 years, not settling for maybe getting 4th in the EPL.

We should be aiming for doing the same in the EPL, with a mixture of FA and other cups thrown in. That is what City want, that is what they are looking to deliver and they are constantly striving to achieve that. They have just got in the best manager to try and deliver teh CL trophy for them. You get the feeling that if Utd were in the top 4 Utd would be more than happy to stay there and simply exist.

Flint Fredstone

Lord TSC wrote: »

Ducker - Giggs has "serious reservations" over being an interim manager and also has misgivings over being Jose's assistant

Mark Ogden - Manchester United players increasingly fed up with Louis van Gaal's odd tactics as micro-manager tells them not to shoot first time

MEN - Manchester United manager facing three games to save his job

Another 3 games to save his job? That went well the last time.

homerjay2005

There was a very valid point made on one of those BBC discussion programmes about 2 weeks ago that Woodward had gambled on the assumption that Leceister would eventually fall away and United improving would end up being enough for top 4.

Also highlighted a complete misunderstanding of the suituation though when even without Leicester, the signs were there that United were slipping rapidly down the pecking order and it was being ignored.

Mars Bar

Lord TSC wrote: »

Joe.co.uk makes their case for who the next manager should be...

http://www.joe.co.uk/sport/opinion-why-rachel-riley-should-be-considered-for-the-manchester-united-job/43498

I love the fact that at no point in the paragraph about others finding the idea ludicrous, her being a female wasn't a factor!

Mars Bar

Mars Bar wrote: »

I love the fact that at no point in the paragraph about others finding the idea ludicrous, her being a female wasn't a factor!

Mars Bar for manager

jayo26

Bt are saying it's because jose dont want to take over mid season.

homerjay2005

Leroy42 wrote: »

In LVG's defence, the injuries has been unbelievable. 13 top team players are gone. Imagine taking that out of any of Leicster, Arsenal, Spurs or City.

That list of injuries contains mainly players who are not first choice players-in there Darmian,Rooney and DDG have only missed 1 game, Fellaini has missed two. Shaw has been out all season. Injuries is a lame excuse, when even with our first choice team out we are losing games and playing terrible.

The rest are either kids or back up players. Or I'll put it another way-the injury list just shows how poor our squad quality is, something however that many fans highlighted last September but others chose to ignore it. We have injury crisis every year and yet when it comes to squad planning, our club ignores it.

Meanwhile, the so called injury proned players we got rid of last summer have had all had relatively injury free seasons and have over 150 games played between them.

Getting rid of all those players in the interest of a smaller squad or more to the point cost cutting, has been a huge part why we are in the Shi* now and for that, LVG and Woodward are culpable. Smaller squad also means players are needed to play more games and that increases risk of injuries.

When you look at everything out together, it's truely disgraceful what has been left to happen.

madcabbage

jayo26 wrote: »

Bt are saying it's because jose dont want to take over mid season.

Would it not be better to take over now? He'll have less time to work with the squad with the Euros in the summer as well as the fact that he'd know what players he needs and doesn't need transfer wise.

Personally I wouldn't be the slightest surprised if there's been zero contact from the club or if there's going to be any at all!

homerjay2005

madcabbage wrote: »

Personally I wouldn't be the slightest surprised if there's been zero contact from the club or if there's going to be any at all!

Exactly- we've not made any contact with Jose is the most likely scenario and Woodward genuinely puts our current "run" down to bad luck, injures and every other excuse you see in football.

His comments before Christmas about the fans expectations and LVG being a "genius" should have set off alarm bells for most in the sense that we should have known what was coming.

And that is even before we reflect on what he said around this time two years ago-we Don't need success to sell shirts.

In that one line right there, you see what our club has become.

Iused2likebusts

homerjay2005 wrote: »

That list of injuries contains mainly players who are not first choice players-in there Darmian,Rooney and DDG have only missed 1 game, Fellaini has missed two. Shaw has been out all season. Injuries is a lame excuse, when even with our first choice team out we are losing games and playing terrible.

The rest are either kids or back up players. Or I'll put it another way-the injury list just shows how poor our squad quality is, something however that many fans highlighted last September but others chose to ignore it. We have injury crisis every year and yet when it comes to squad planning, our club ignores it.

Meanwhile, the so called injury proned players we got rid of last summer have had all had relatively injury free seasons and have over 150 games played between them.

Getting rid of all those players in the interest of a smaller squad or more to the point cost cutting, has been a huge part why we are in the Shi* now and for that, LVG and Woodward are culpable. Smaller squad also means players are needed to play more games and that increases risk of injuries.

When you look at everything out together, it's truely disgraceful what has been left to happen.

City and arsenal have had much the same issues with injuries and arsenal in particular have coped much better than utd.

Crimson King

I honestly believe if the club don't proceed in the Europa he is gone, it cannot be anything other than a sacking failing to beat Danish minnows 1-0 at OT at least.

Saying that the indecision and slowness to react is something very noticeable at the club and is evident every Summer. Top clubs don't let things like this season happen without change, somehow United think it's ok to right off seasons in December.

homerjay2005

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

City and arsenal have had much the same issues with injuries and arsenal in particular have coped much better than utd.

And that a down to having more senior players than we do.Arsenal have 22 senior outfield players, we have 19 and that list includes some very very average players.

They have not needed to play their youngsters at all really apart from the odd game here and there. Had we kept Evans, Rafael, Nani and Hernandez for example, we'd be in Much better shape but nope, sell them on and rely on Lingard, Varela, Mcnair and all the other to play instead of them.

Wouldn't happen at any other club . Like, could you imagine Lingard starting regularly for Barcelona, Madrid and Bayern ?