Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 Mod Note Post #2331

The_Kew_Tour

In the Calendar year we were team who had highest Average Possession on 62%

Get in!!!

What a year!!

FutureGuy

It's very difficult to remember the games of the really 90's except the clips of goals I watched over and over again on the end of season tape during the summer holidays.

I do remember a time where we won a ton of games 1-0 thanks to a certain Eric Cantona. I don't remember full games enough to say the football was stellar or whether it was workmanlike.

What does resonate with me is the importance of getting that special player in January who can do something special and turn the 0-0s into 1-0 and 2-0 wins.

Not defending the current style of play by a long shot but if we had that Ronaldo/Suarez type player and we had won 4 of those 0-0 games by 1-0, I wonder what the overall feeling would be? We'd be top of the league and would de drugged by our resilient defence.

There is still a league title there if the right players come in. Whether we get them or not is another thing. I have thing unshakable feeling that fourth is the clubs aim for every season and once we get that, the top men are satisfied.

What the hell. Did I have happy pills this morning?

Leroy42

FutureGuy wrote: »

Not defending the current style of play by a long shot but if we had that Ronaldo/Suarez type player and we had won 4 of those 0-0 games by 1-0, I wonder what the overall feeling would be? We'd be top of the league and would de drugged by our resilient defence.

There is still a league title there if the right players come in. Whether we get them or not is another thing. I have thing unshakable feeling that fourth is the clubs aim for every season and once we get that, the top men are satisfied.

What the hell. Did I have happy pills this morning?

The problem with the above is that LVG has shown nothing in the 18 months he has been here that he has the ability to get a player playing like that. WHilst our defence has no doubt become stronger it stems in large part to having such a defensive set up and having 2 DM in front of the back four and a world class goalkeeper.

Just as you rightly point out that a couple of goals would have brought extra wins, a couple of goals the other end, which without DDG most teams would have conceded would see if 4 points worse off. (and probably more).

I cannot see how LVG is going to get us scoring more without having some impact on the defence (which has struggled badly the last few weeks). LVG has some amazing talent at his disposal and completely failed to get it firing. ADM seeems to have been largely outside his control, but RVP never clicked, he failed to find the form from Chico that he is now proving, Rooney is a disaster, Memphis is a disaster, Martial started well but regressed and Mata has failed to find his Chelsea form.

What makes you think that LVG can do any better with another player.

It is LVG that is the problem

Lord TSC

Was off the opinion a few weeks back that LVG deserved the transfer window, but that was before the run of form which, if it came in the first quarter of the season instead of the second, would have us sitting 2nd from bottom. While I don't have problems with the level he's bought thus far, I don't trust him to either buy the level we need (absolutely top class, not potential to be), or to get that top class ability out of them.

We won't attract the top class of player we need sitting midtable with a manager who can't buy a win, and is trying to sell a 0-0 on the back of an 8 game winless streak as a massive achievement.

Apologies I dont normally get near a computer after a few.

We lack pace (in a few positions)
We lack a leader.
We lack a clinical finisher.


All LVGs fault after 3 windows.

He also hasn't the team playing at its best.

I'm a fan of his but its his team as far as I'm concerned

DARK-KNIGHT

Can any of you see degea hanging around this summer? I reckon he is on his way

J. Marston

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

Can any of you see degea hanging around this summer? I reckon he is on his way

Probably gone if we don't get Champions League. Should get a decent price with his contract though.

Guessing Butland would replace him.

Coat22

So. Half way through now and we have Crystal Palace, Spurs and Leicester ahead of us, Liverpool level with us and West Ham, Watford and Stoke a solitary point behind us.

I can't think of one game in which I would say we were "unlucky" (perhaps the Chelsea game with 2 off the post) but several where we got lucky so we are 6th by virtue of good fortune.

The fact that VG still has a job suggests that either a) they are in talks with Guardiola and happy to write this season off on the basis of him coming in the summer or b) Woodward hasn't a clue what to do.

My feeling is its B.

Kerrydude1981

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

In the Calendar year we were team who had highest Average Possession on 62%

Get in!!!

What a year!!

StringerBell

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

In the Calendar year we were team who had highest Average Possession on 62%

Get in!!!

What a year!!

Looking forward to the open bus top parade tomorrow to celebrate!!

Kerrydude1981

StringerBell wrote: »

Looking forward to the open bus top parade tomorrow to celebrate!!

It would probably end up like the one in Mike Bassett

gosplan

Lord TSC wrote: »

Was off the opinion a few weeks back that LVG deserved the transfer window, but that was before the run of form which, if it came in the first quarter of the season instead of the second, would have us sitting 2nd from bottom. While I don't have problems with the level he's bought thus far, I don't trust him to either buy the level we need (absolutely top class, not potential to be), or to get that top class ability out of them.

We won't attract the top class of player we need sitting midtable with a manager who can't buy a win, and is trying to sell a 0-0 on the back of an 8 game winless streak as a massive achievement.

I think this is becoming more and more clear about LVG's reign. He's not getting the best out of the players and seems to be stifling them in terms of their attacking abilities.

I don't think you can always look to the transfer market for a solution. Sure Ronaldo or Bale would make a difference but that should be the difference between 2nd/3rd and 1st, not 7th and 4th.

Really hard to know what to do though. There's the risk of becoming a club where the players can just pack it in and wait for the manager to be sacked. I think it's really important to avoid that.

It's just hard to view the potential threat of that vrs the league position.

I'd err on the side that LVG has rebuilt the squad and you're now a top four squad with a young age profile who will continue to develop.

Stick with that and you'll have a solid foundation for the next manager to come in and build on rather than coming into chaos and over-optimistic expectations.

Also you get the bonus that the players will never be of the opinion that they can just phone it in for a while and wait for the change of manager.

Lord TSC

gosplan wrote: »

I'd err on the side that LVG has rebuilt the squad and you're now a top four squad with a young age profile who will continue to develop.

At the moment, I think people could accept that. The worry is, we barely scrapped top four last season, and this season, we're now looking as if it's going to be a massive fight for it again, and one we're likely to lose if things don't change round.

Also you get the bonus that the players will never be of the opinion that they can just phone it in for a while and wait for the change of manager.

I agree with the notion that player power should be kept to a minimum in that regard, but at the same time, we can't be afraid to switch managers if its clear he can't motivate players. There's still a few players I think should be leaving, though the number dwindles. But at the end of the day, most of the team are players he bought and brought in, and he can't even convince them to play for him any more.

Van.Bosch

The thing about LVG is is he motivating or getting the best out of players. I think it would be universally accepted he is not. On Saturday we face Swansea at home, for a club like UTD, this should be a comfortable 3-0 type game 9 times out of ten. However I'd say it is a 1 out of ten chance we will see something like that and UTD fans go into the game nor ruling out a 1-0, 0-0 or even a defeat. This is where we are now so it is a huge few weeks in terms of new players or managers.

IamtheWalrus

I can see at least 1 signing in January. The squad needs a lift. Maybe him?

Mars Bar

https://twitter.com/ManUtd/status/682516564915032064

An assist worthy of the no.10 jersey

homerjay2005

Mars Bar wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ManUtd/status/682516564915032064

An assist worthy of the no.10 jersey

I think LVG obsession with a "10" is a huge part of the problem. We have f*ck all goals, so why not return to basics with two out and out strikers supported by two pacey wingers and go from there.

gosplan

Lord TSC wrote: »

At the moment, I think people could accept that. The worry is, we barely scrapped top four last season, and this season, we're now looking as if it's going to be a massive fight for it again, and one we're likely to lose if things don't change round.



I agree with the notion that player power should be kept to a minimum in that regard, but at the same time, we can't be afraid to switch managers if its clear he can't motivate players. There's still a few players I think should be leaving, though the number dwindles. But at the end of the day, most of the team are players he bought and brought in, and he can't even convince them to play for him any more.

Yeah. It's a tightrope.

The other thing about chopping and changing managers and philosophies is that it's very expensive. Roman seems to want to get off the roundabout now but can't manage to do so without hugely comprimising the team's success.

I get the impression that the Glazers would be more likely to settle for profitable mediocrity rather than an expensive series of peaks and troughs so maybe it's a case if building on what you have rather than going back to the drawing board every couple of years.

5starpool

Lord TSC wrote: »

Pool will be ahead of us well before that IMO. Have no faith that we will get more than a point against Swansea, so could see them getting ahead of us by The weekend.

I know a lot of people in here are (understandably) focused on how poor you have been, but Liverpool have in general been little better (with the exception of a couple of performances a while back). Confidence is a little better, but Liverpool are stupidly inconsistent now, and could just as easily lose 3-0 (again) to West Ham on Saturday as they could win. Neither us nor you will make top 4 the way things are going. If this was a normal season (normal for the last decade anyhow) then both would be pretty much out of the top 4 running with 30 points at the halfway stage, but it is a weird year so who knows.

Chances are at least one of us will limp into the top 4, but it's hard to make a convincing argument for either at this stage of the season, even when I am still convinced that Leicester will drop down to 6th/7th by the end of the season.

Lord TSC

5starpool wrote: »

I know a lot of people in here are (understandably) focused on how poor you have been, but Liverpool have in general been little better (with the exception of a couple of performances a while back). Confidence is a little better, but Liverpool are stupidly inconsistent now, and could just as easily lose 3-0 (again) to West Ham on Saturday as they could win. Neither us nor you will make top 4 the way things are going. If this was a normal season (normal for the last decade anyhow) then both would be pretty much out of the top 4 running with 30 points at the halfway stage, but it is a weird year so who knows.

Chances are at least one of us will limp into the top 4, but it's hard to make a convincing argument for either at this stage of the season, even when I am still convinced that Leicester will drop down to 6th/7th by the end of the season.

Yeah, fair point.

Either way, I'd argue either ye lot or West Ham will likely be above us once the next set of games is over. Possibly both if we lost and ye got a draw (I think it had to be a 2-2 draw or something for that to happen though.

You guys may be inconsistent but at least you are getting the odd win. I'd take your inconsistent form of 3 wins, 1 draw and 2 losses over the last 6 PL games than ours of 3 draws, 3 losses. I'm also interested to see how Klopp works the transfer market over the next month, and if it will help your results a bit more.

Liam O

homerjay2005 wrote: »

I think LVG obsession with a "10" is a huge part of the problem. We have f*ck all goals, so why not return to basics with two out and out strikers supported by two pacey wingers and go from there.

When Rooney and Martial have played up front that has been how it is and the team struggle because of it. Problem is there is no Ozil or Silva there to play that role. You could say Mata but I think he's achieved more in a wide role than a central one in his career. Tell Bayern and Real to not play a 10 see where it gets them.

The system that the players at the club could pull off a poor man's version of is Barca's.

Memphis and Martial as wide forwards, sticking close to the middle, propped up by a link man in Mata(Iniesta), a smart passer with a bit of bite in Herrera(Rakitic) and a deep player to break up and pass forward in Schneiderlin or Carrick (Busquets). The wingers problems have been complete isolation. Having to beat 2 players to shoot or cross isn't Memphis' game, being played into positions to use his great technique when it comes to passing and shooting around the box is.

dixiefly

What about the O'Neill and Keane double act taking over after the Euros? We could do a lot worse.

Nalz

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

In the Calendar year we were team who had highest Average Possession on 62%

Get in!!!

What a year!!

I want a journo or someone in the media to ask\tell LVG that significantly more possession does not equal dominating games

That would stop his usual opening line of "we dominated the game" followed by "we have no luck" and "need to take our chances" (all 2 or 3 of them:rolleyes:)

hufpc8w3adnk65

dixiefly wrote: »

What about the O'Neill and Keane double act taking over after the Euros? We could do a lot worse.

Ha ha ha ha

keith16

dixiefly wrote: »

What about the O'Neill and Keane double act taking over after the Euros? We could do a lot worse.

LOL

Maximus Alexander

dixiefly wrote: »

What about the O'Neill and Keane double act taking over after the Euros? We could do a lot worse.

I'd rather put Pro. F in and I'd say he'd be cheaper.

Cantona's Collars

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I'd rather put Pro. F in and I'd say he'd be cheaper.

Team meetings would last weeks:P

5starpool

dixiefly wrote: »

What about the O'Neill and Keane double act taking over after the Euros? We could do a lot worse.

I'd pay good money to see this happen!

IamtheWalrus

If Fergie and the club are ear-marking Giggs as the new manager, maybe it's because he is showing the right aptitude behind the scenes? Innovation training methods, vision for the club, etc? Is that possible? Otherwise, why would he be mentioned if the club didn't think he's a strong candidate?

Coat22

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

If Fergie and the club are ear-marking Giggs as the new manager, maybe it's because he is showing the right aptitude behind the scenes? Innovation training methods, vision for the club, etc? Is that possible? Otherwise, why would he be mentioned if the club didn't think he's a strong candidate?

For me its a question of why was he given the number 2 role?

Was it as you point out above, that the club have a long term plan for him to take over and this is why he was appointed or was it to keep a link with the past in the current set up therefore avoiding the Moyes mistake of clearing everyone out?

I think it was the former and that's why the club aren't jumping up and down at the moment. They'll let VG see out his contract and Giggs will roll in and the comparison to Liverpool in the early 90s will become more and more real

bucketybuck

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

If Fergie and the club are ear-marking Giggs as the new manager, maybe it's because he is showing the right aptitude behind the scenes? Innovation training methods, vision for the club, etc? Is that possible? Otherwise, why would he be mentioned if the club didn't think he's a strong candidate?

Surely what we can see on the field of play answers that?

The_Kew_Tour

Had a dream the other night that Liverpool were beating us 5-0.... At half time

I also dreamt before Germany game that Ireland won 1-0 although David Connelly scored that

So brace yourself, you've been warned.

The_Kew_Tour

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Had a dream the other night that Liverpool were beating us 5-0.... At half time

I also dreamt before Germany game that Ireland won 1-0 although David Connelly scored that

So brace yourself, you've been warned.

Sigh

Lord TSC

Presume there's a press conference today, yeah? Will cry if he spends it trying to outline how good a result the Chelsea game was

I feel a 10 game winning streak coming up.. going to put a 10 on the first and roll on, untill we are through the the next rounf od the uefa cup.....:cool:

adox

5starpool wrote: »

I know a lot of people in here are (understandably) focused on how poor you have been, but Liverpool have in general been little better (with the exception of a couple of performances a while back). Confidence is a little better, but Liverpool are stupidly inconsistent now, and could just as easily lose 3-0 (again) to West Ham on Saturday as they could win. Neither us nor you will make top 4 the way things are going. If this was a normal season (normal for the last decade anyhow) then both would be pretty much out of the top 4 running with 30 points at the halfway stage, but it is a weird year so who knows.

Chances are at least one of us will limp into the top 4, but it's hard to make a convincing argument for either at this stage of the season, even when I am still convinced that Leicester will drop down to 6th/7th by the end of the season.

The differences are I'd say, Utd probably have better players overall but while Liverpool may have the weaker squad(I know it's subjective to a point) Liverpool have a manager on the way up you would think, yet to bring in some of his own players and stamp his footprint on the team and club. Utd have a manager on the way down. Been there 18 months, cleared out most of the league winning squad, spent £250 million on players and has us languishing outside the top 4 on our worst run in decades, playing the worst football in the division.

I'd be a lot more optimistic being a Liverpool supporter in the short term. Sure Utd have th financial clout to correct all this but, despite spending hundreds of millions already they are more or less where Moyes left them.

It really is a worrying time as a Utd fan.

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/CraigNorwood/status/682531052787757056

homerjay2005

more from this lot on the problems behind the scenes that appear to be the main reason why LVG is being kept on. gives impression that its a complete mess there - mr Woodward is the man who has the shoulder the blame here.

first off, this lad is a close pal of Fergusons (wrote his book or something according to RI -

Paul Hayward ‏@_PaulHayward Dec 22
My information is that Sir Alex Ferguson hasn't been involved in any meetings about Van Gaal. Believe it or not he wouldn't expect to be.

Paul Hayward ‏@_PaulHayward Dec 22
@dazlo3500 no specific info but the club is changing fast. Unrecognisable from Ferguson years.

@dazlo3500 I think the commercial agenda has undermined the
football side.

Red issue see this that Ferguson isnt happy how the club has moved to a business now since Woodward took over and football is no longer the priority.

Red Issue ‏@RedIssue 23h23 hours ago
Fergie's thoughts reflect internal MUFC board power struggle. He's desperate to have someone under his control (not Woodward's) as next boss

this part is very interesting though -

Red Issue ‏@RedIssue 23h23 hours ago
Fergie previously against LVG hence Co92 bashing him. He now backs LVG to stop Mourinho taking over. His own interests above club as always.

Red Issue ‏@RedIssue 23h23 hours ago
Woodward wants to keep LVG so he's not responsible for appointing 2 failures. Equally keen to avoid Giggs as boss to stop Fergie power grab.

if this lot are telling the truth, then the club is in a sorry state. and we can forget about Jose or pep being next manager, if things go as the above appears, then Giggs will be next manager be it next month or in 2 years time.

things will really need to go t*ts up for that to change now sadly, but it looks like the entire problems in the last 18 months are based about profit over football and an obsession with Giggs being the manager.

J. Marston

Red Issue is a load of shít. I'd love to see how much of their inside info over the last couple of years has actually panned out.

Blatter

Any reason as to why Red Issue should be believed?

Were they not the crowd that were well known for having an anti Fergie agenda for years?

Rayne Wooney

FutureGuy wrote: »

It's very difficult to remember the games of the really 90's except the clips of goals I watched over and over again on the end of season tape during the summer holidays.

I do remember a time where we won a ton of games 1-0 thanks to a certain Eric Cantona. I don't remember full games enough to say the football was stellar or whether it was workmanlike.

What does resonate with me is the importance of getting that special player in January who can do something special and turn the 0-0s into 1-0 and 2-0 wins.

Not defending the current style of play by a long shot but if we had that Ronaldo/Suarez type player and we had won 4 of those 0-0 games by 1-0, I wonder what the overall feeling would be? We'd be top of the league and would de drugged by our resilient defence.

There is still a league title there if the right players come in. Whether we get them or not is another thing. I have thing unshakable feeling that fourth is the clubs aim for every season and once we get that, the top men are satisfied.

What the hell. Did I have happy pills this morning?

Any club in the top 6 could sign a couple of world class players and challenge for the league. That isn't a good enough solution in my book. The players are there to challenge for the league, Van Gaal just isn't a good enough manager at this point in time to get it out of them. Blindly thrusting his philosophy on the players expecting it to work instead of adapting his system to get the best out of the players he has at his disposal.

Are you accounting for the overall feeling people had last season when we were doing *relatively* well result wise but a lot of people could see this impending spiral coming if we didn't fix the style of football?

jayo26

homerjay2005 wrote: »

more from this lot on the problems behind the scenes that appear to be the main reason why LVG is being kept on. gives impression that its a complete mess there - mr Woodward is the man who has the shoulder the blame here.

first off, this lad is a close pal of Fergusons (wrote his book or something according to RI -







Red issue see this that Ferguson isnt happy how the club has moved to a business now since Woodward took over and football is no longer the priority.



this part is very interesting though -





if this lot are telling the truth, then the club is in a sorry state. and we can forget about Jose or pep being next manager, if things go as the above appears, then Giggs will be next manager be it next month or in 2 years time.

things will really need to go t*ts up for that to change now sadly, but it looks like the entire problems in the last 18 months are based about profit over football and an obsession with Giggs being the manager.

In my opinion I think that's a group of people making there own conspiracy theory to coincide woth what looks to be happening on the outside,

Yhh the club isn't doing well on the field and of course Woodward doesn't want to have another boss as failure but any businessman and the glazier family have to see that to keep united profitable the football side of it is most important.

I think they want to give LVG every chance to turn it around unfortunately it's costing the club with results and its appalling to watch but I can not see them leaving LVG in charge if results keep going as they are because ultimately the team needs to be successful.

sky88

jayo26 wrote: »

In my opinion I think that's a group of people making there own conspiracy theory to coincide woth what looks to be happening on the outside,

Yhh the club isn't doing well on the field and of course Woodward doesn't want to have another boss as failure but any businessman and the glazier family have to see that to keep united profitable the football side of it is most important.

I think they want to give LVG every chance to turn it around unfortunately it's costing the club with results and its appalling to watch but I can not see them leaving LVG in charge if results keep going as they are because ultimately the team needs to be successful.

Yep id agree the same kind of stories come out of most clubs in turmoil. I wouldnt be surprised if theres some truth to it as woodward does strike me as too much of an accountant to run a football side of things. i wouldnt mind seeing a director of football of sorts to deal with transfers and negotiations.

Let ed deal with the corporate side as he does seem brilliant at it. he also maybe trying to take on too much responsibilit, as i read somewhere hes based out of 3 differnt offices which isnt good to me .

Pro. F

What we need is somebody like David Gill was. A chartered accountant who worked in the world of finance before he came to United as a finance director and eventually became chief exec.

bucketybuck

The Woodward story doesn't pass a logic test.

He doesn't want to be the guy that hired two failures? He will be that guy whether he fires Van Gaal or not.

In terms of the team success or failure is judged by what happens on the field, not by whether the manager is sacked or not. If the team stays on its present course then he will be judged to have appointed two failures, Van Gaal staying or going is just a part of that.

Woodward is not stupid, he isn't going to be sitting with a midtable team telling himself that everything is fine and that Van Gaal hasn't failed until he is sacked. The story doesn't add up.

Hurler85

Pro. F wrote: »

What we need is somebody like David Gill was. A chartered accountant who worked in the world of finance before he came to United as a finance director and eventually became chief exec.

Any chance Gill might come back?!

bucketybuck

I see the BBC have given Van Gaal the "Statue of the year" award!

Wonder will they have to apologise for that as well...

FutureGuy

homerjay2005 wrote: »

I think LVG obsession with a "10" is a huge part of the problem. We have f*ck all goals, so why not return to basics with two out and out strikers supported by two pacey wingers and go from there.

I have been thinking for weeks Id love to go back to 4-4-2. Leicester and Watford are certainly using it to their advantage.

FatherTed

bucketybuck wrote: »

The Woodward story doesn't pass a logic test.

He doesn't want to be the guy that hired two failures? He will be that guy whether he fires Van Gaal or not.

In terms of the team success or failure is judged by what happens on the field, not by whether the manager is sacked or not. If the team stays on its present course then he will be judged to have appointed two failures, Van Gaal staying or going is just a part of that.

Woodward is not stupid, he isn't going to be sitting with a midtable team telling himself that everything is fine and that Van Gaal hasn't failed until he is sacked. The story doesn't add up.

Plus wasn't Moyes Fergie's choice anyway?
Woodward is doing a great job on the commercial side of things. Don't we have the official Manchester United toothpaste now? Obviously he has no clue about football. He needs to appoint a DOF asap but the issue is that they are just as hard to get as a good manager.

As for LVG, I think the players are better than how they are playing for him. Put it this way, if Messi and Ronaldo came here, they'd quickly look like Rooney is now. The question is who can we get in? I really believe Pep is the right man but getting him won't be easy. On one hand, I'm kinda hoping Man City wins the Prem and goes deep in the CL maybe even win it. But on the other hand, it's Man City. Where is Pep going to go? Real/Barca/PSG are out. I doubt he'd take on any Italian side. That leaves Man City/Chelsea/us. Maybe Arse at the end of the season is Wenger decides to pack it in.

Maybe the board is hoping for some sort of form turnaround that would be good enough to ride this season out and get us into the top 4 and have a proper run at Pep.

bucketybuck

FatherTed wrote: »

The question is who can we get in?

There is a proven, successful, world class manager available but a lot of people have convinced themselves that he would be a bad choice, as if a slow slide into mediocrity is better than rolling the dice on one of the few proven managers in the game today.