Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 Mod Note Post #2331

Korat

Whoever the manager might be in the next couple of seasons the team needs leaders.

A Steve Bruce type character at the back would be a silver bullet in my opinion. Schneiderlin does a good job of shielding the defence from breaking attacks but it still looks like complete chaos when balls are played into the box from set-pieces. At the moment a minimum number of opponents are causing maximum damage, so when we break we're still outnumbered by defenders.

Your Airbag

https://twitter.com/CheGiaevara/status/683047171873202176

mohamedbouhafsi saying Man United are going for John Stones. He was the first with the Anthony Martial news in the summer.

bucketybuck

Adamocovic wrote: »

So although he has a tendency of getting quite a few injuries they usually are not long term.

Thats not really a point in his favour, a centre back constantly missing 2/3 games at a time can't build a defensive partnership and can't be relied upon to be there for the crunch games. Its one thing for a utility squad player to be frequently missing, quite another from somebody you need to be a consistent presence in a vital area.

It would almost have been better for Jones to have had one or two longer term injuries than this constant parade of niggling small ones. I think he could easily follow Smalling and develop into a proper player but at some point we will have to decide whether he is worth the hassle or not.

Adamocovic

bucketybuck wrote: »

Thats not really a point in his favour, a centre back constantly missing 2/3 games at a time can't build a defensive partnership and can't be relied upon to be there for the crunch games. Its one thing for a utility squad player to be frequently missing, quite another from somebody you need to be a consistent presence in a vital area.

It would almost have been better for Jones to have had one or two longer term injuries than this constant parade of niggling small ones. I think he could easily follow Smalling and develop into a proper player but at some point we will have to decide whether he is worth the hassle or not.

I had to defend smalling here last summer and he came good so hopefully Phil does next season or coming months :P wishful thinking ha

Rossi IRL

What about a contract for Liandro Damiao, he became a free agent in the last month.

Sure he hasn't lived up to his hype but could he do a job for us? Cant be any worse than having Will Keane as our 3rd striker.

It isn't that long ago that we were after him along with Spurs an Arsenal.

J. Marston

Jones needs to be sold in the summer. Some lower mid-table team will gladly give us £5+ million for him.

Korat

Adamocovic wrote: »

I had to defend smalling here last summer and he came good so hopefully Phil does next season or coming months :P wishful thinking ha

How does someone stop getting injured?

Smalling seems to be playing smarter and maybe that's why he doesn't need to compensate for mistakes with recklessness anymore. Could be that Phil Jones just needs to read the game a little better.

Adamocovic

Korat wrote: »

How does someone stop getting injured?

Smalling seems to be playing smarter and maybe that's why he doesn't need to compensate for mistakes with recklessness anymore. Could be that Phil Jones just needs to read the game a little better.

I agree. I think for Jones one of his strengths is also his weakness. That being that he makes too much of an effort at times or tries too hard and goes in for balls or challenges that he won't win and puts himself in a situation where he's more likely to get hurt. His desire to win the ball or do something productive clouds his thinking and decision making at times I believe. Saying that I still rate his ability and he still is very young.

Obviously a bit of luck too but I do agree that if he starts playing smarter he can avoid being injured as much.

Lord TSC

https://twitter.com/DTguardian/status/683341831560663040

One quote from Van Gaal that probably sums up the modern Man Utd. "Our performance in the first half was better than the second half."

bmcc10

Wayne Rooney has more goals than Messi Neymar and Suarez combined this year, A class act.

RobertKK

Jones was injured for 13 matches and not on the bench for 3 other games so far this season.

Rossi IRL

bmcc10 wrote: »

Wayne Rooney has more goals than Messi Neymar and Suarez combined this year, A class act.

Johny Evans has more goals than Messi Neymar and Suarez combined this year.


Puts it into perspective

Peist2007

RobertKK wrote: »

Jones needs to be gotten rid of in the summer, injured again, fine bone china is less brittle.

He's useless. Any time i go to Old Trafford he is a liability. The injury prone-ness means we need to cash in now. Think of Sturridge's current value versus one year ago.

Headshot

oh getting very interesting now

Vic Vinegar

Mane has gone AWOL or something... Wonder what that is all about.

0gac3yjefb5sv7

Headshot wrote: »

oh getting very interesting now

League is ours to take! Haha

RobertKK

Headshot wrote: »

oh getting very interesting now

Indeed.
A big IF Watford can hold on to this lead...until City score we are just three points behind City...

titan18

I know he's a bit old, but wouldn't mind Ashley Williams in to partner Smalling. Think he's a very solid defender, used to the PL and probably wouldn't cost a bomb either

Korat

Vic Vinegar wrote: »

Mane has gone AWOL or something... Wonder what that is all about.

It's the kind of thing future employers would strike him off their shopping list for, unless they're really desperate.

Any sightings around Carrington yet?

Sand

Peist2007 wrote: »

He's useless. Any time i go to Old Trafford he is a liability. The injury prone-ness means we need to cash in now. Think of Sturridge's current value versus one year ago.

We're talking about 5 million. Even if he loses all value entirely, its not a huge loss.

On the other hand - he could overcome his injury issues and develop into a fine player like Smalling has. Even if he doesn't he is a perfectly acceptable squad player when people are claiming we are short a centre back. He is still quite young. I don't get the urgency to declare young players finished.

Stones is the new bright, shiny thing over the horizon. If he comes to United in January and puts in a few games there will be people calling for him to be sold in the summer too.

Liam McPoyle

Vic Vinegar wrote: »

Mane has gone AWOL or something... Wonder what that is all about.

He was dropped cos he was late for the pre match meeting as per Twatter.

Liam O

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Johny Evans has more goals than Messi Neymar and Suarez combined this year.


Puts it into perspective

so you're saying United should sign Jonny Evans?

Peist2007

Sand wrote: »

We're talking about 5 million. Even if he loses all value entirely, its not a huge loss.

On the other hand - he could overcome his injury issues and develop into a fine player like Smalling has. Even if he doesn't he is a perfectly acceptable squad player when people are claiming we are short a centre back. He is still quite young. I don't get the urgency to declare young players finished.

Stones is the new bright, shiny thing over the horizon. If he comes to United in January and puts in a few games there will be people calling for him to be sold in the summer too.

I agree re the relatively low value meaning that there isnt a significant loss on when we sell him. I just think he's never going to be a proper partner for Smalling. He isnt good enough on the ball and he is prone to error. He'll never be an assured presence in defence on a Champions League contender. He's on big wages which look worse and worse value year on year. And it is the idea that those wages are worth a midtable team taking a punt which is what is important in my opinion.

As for Stones, i havent seen enough. He looks like a good prospect is all i would say at this point. Reminds me (oddly) of John O'Shea and his initial impact. And we all know how O'Shea's second season as an established player at United went

Sand

Peist2007 wrote: »

I agree re the relatively low value meaning that there isnt a significant loss on when we sell him. I just think he's never going to be a proper partner for Smalling. He isnt good enough on the ball and he is prone to error. He'll never be an assured presence in defence on a Champions League contender. He's on big wages which look worse and worse value year on year. And it is the idea that those wages are worth a midtable team taking a punt which is what is important in my opinion.

As for Stones, i havent seen enough. He looks like a good prospect is all i would say at this point. Reminds me (oddly) of John O'Shea and his initial impact. And we all know how O'Shea's second season as an established player at United went

I had little or no confidence in Smalling last season. I gave up after the Man City game where he got himself sent off for two of the stupidest yellow cards I've ever seen in quick succession. But he developed and now the United defence for the next 5-6 years is seen as Smalling + Another.

Jones could come good like Smalling did and we're under no financial pressure to sell. If and when he comes to the end of his contract in 2019, a decision will need to be made if another one should be offered. Same decision was made regarding Evans last summer.

Rossi IRL

Dont want Mane, said it during the summer.

He isnt what we need

Korat

On what planet is letting Vidic, Ferdinand and Evra go without adequate replacements not a boardroom issue?

Alex Ferguson earned his right to hire and fire at will because he had proven his foresight and ability to replace and upgrade. The team has been gutted of leadership by successive new managers and the club hierarchy stood by. There must have been some reasoning given to them, they bought into those plans and they've failed. The manager will get the sack but the club will still be saddled with their poor judgement.

Glazers Out.

StringerBell

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Dont want Mane, said it during the summer.

He isnt what we need

Sorry, I missed it in the summer, I assume you gave reasons for why you feel that way so would you mind telling me what they were?

Are they still the same reasons or different?

StringerBell

Korat wrote: »

On what planet is letting Vidic, Ferdinand and Evra go without adequate replacements not a boardroom issue?


Glazers Out.

Vidic - Jones
Rio - Smalling
Evra - Shaw

........................... as for leadership, we are supposed to have that now from Rooney, Carrick, Schweinsteiger, Smalling is growing in to it, Young etc, Fergie rebuilt alright, how you can say he always upgraded is beyond me though. He made do, he got by, he used his GOAT man management skills to get the very best out of his players, he also signed a lot of duds, particularly toward the end, he neglected midfield big time and he was short term thinking in his attackers toward the end also which left a problem for the next man up.

Glazers taken Eddies place for the evening?

hufpc8w3adnk65

Korat wrote: »

On what planet is letting Vidic, Ferdinand and Evra go without adequate replacements not a boardroom issue?

Alex Ferguson earned his right to hire and fire at will because he had proven his foresight and ability to replace and upgrade. The team has been gutted of leadership by successive new managers and the club hierarchy stood by. There must have been some reasoning given to them, they bought into those plans and they've failed. The manager will get the sack but the club will still be saddled with their poor judgement.

Glazers Out.

So you want the board too interfere in managers decisions?? That's a recipe for disaster

Sand

Korat wrote: »

On what planet is letting Vidic, Ferdinand and Evra go without adequate replacements not a boardroom issue?

Alex Ferguson earned his right to hire and fire at will because he had proven his foresight and ability to replace and upgrade. The team has been gutted of leadership by successive new managers and the club hierarchy stood by. There must have been some reasoning given to them, they bought into those plans and they've failed. The manager will get the sack but the club will still be saddled with their poor judgement.

Glazers Out.

The leadership supplied by Ferdinand in particular was extremely negative once Fergie left. The form of all three was so poor in their final season that they were in no position to criticise any other player. They certainly didn't lead by example.

Leadership is not something you can pick up from the shop. Even a universally respected player like Schweinsteiger has to put down some roots before he can begin bossing around the dressing room. Lads like Keane arrived into a dressing room of leaders and stayed relatively quiet for a couple of seasons until it fell upon him to speak up. The same will be true for any player recruited in the last season or two. If the next rank of leaders needed to be there, it was on Fergie to have recruited them and have them ready to step up as the older players reached the end of their careers. Like a number of things, this seems to have been let slide in the final few years. Nani, Chicarito, Cleverley, Rafael, Evans...were these the men to take on the mantle of the big influence in the dressing room?

United do have experienced players - Young, Carrick, Rooney. These were the old guard inherited by Moyes and LVG that were still delivering acceptable performances. Leaders will emerge but its not something that can simply be purchased.

beno619

Sand wrote: »

The leadership supplied by Ferdinand in particular was extremely negative once Fergie left. The form of all three was so poor in their final season that they were in no position to criticise any other player. They certainly didn't lead by example.

Is there any proof of this ? sure there were rumours but ...

Rossi IRL

StringerBell wrote: »

Sorry, I missed it in the summer, I assume you gave reasons for why you feel that way so would you mind telling me what they were?

Are they still the same reasons or different?

Pure pace which is most of his game wont work for us. Grand for a smaller teams but for us pure pace dosnt work when we dominate the ball and teams sit deep.

Seems like he has a poor attitude, forced his move from salzburg and now it looks like he is forcing his move from southampton.

From Senagal so most likely will miss the most of Januarys due to the african cup of nations.

Hasnt been consistent this season.

Obviously if we sign him i hope he does well but i just dont see it working out.

homerjay2005

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Dont want Mane, said it during the summer.

He isnt what we need

I have huge reservations about him also,while we need pace and a right winger, we need creativity in tight spaces and I'm not sure Mane is that player.

Surely mahrez is a lesser risk for example?

Lord TSC

homerjay2005 wrote: »

I have huge reservations about him also,while we need pace and a right winger, we need creativity in tight spaces and I'm not sure Mane is that player.

Surely mahrez is a lesser risk for example?

Would imagine Leicester will be going all out to hold onto him, given how they've been preforming. And he might be more than happy to stay at them than us. Sadly, he might have a better chance of European football with them.

Mane is at a club doing worse than us, and being stuck in midtable, Southampton might not mind cashing in. They won't get Europe but they won't be relegated. So Mane might be easier to get.

Rossi IRL

homerjay2005 wrote: »

I have huge reservations about him also,while we need pace and a right winger, we need creativity in tight spaces and I'm not sure Mane is that player.

Surely mahrez is a lesser risk for example?

Mahrez would be a much more suitable player, would cost more but worth it.

homerjay2005

homerjay2005 wrote: »

I have huge reservations about him also,while we need pace and a right winger, we need creativity in tight spaces and I'm not sure Mane is that player.

Surely mahrez is a lesser risk for example?

He just signed a new contract I think

posturingpat

Is Gotze starting regularly for Bayern these days? Could do worse than bid for him,perfect man for creating chances and finding gaps.

0gac3yjefb5sv7

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Mahrez would be a much more suitable player, would cost more but worth it.

How much would Mahrez be do you think?

keeponhurling

posturingpat wrote: »

Is Gotze starting regularly for Bayern these days? Could do worse than bid for him,perfect man for creating chances and finding gaps.

Similar to Mata I guess, also inconsistent

homerjay2005

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Mahrez would be a much more suitable player, would cost more but worth it.

Dunno, considering how much they got for Shaw and lallana for example, can't see them selling Mane for less than. £35m was the figures being touted in the summer which is complete madness.

Alex Teixeira looks a really exciting prospect and I'd love us to go after him but Chelsea apparently have that all but sown up.

Mr.Crinklewood

posturingpat wrote: »

Is Gotze starting regularly for Bayern these days? Could do worse than bid for him,perfect man for creating chances and finding gaps.

Never going to happen while Blind is at the club.

posturingpat

keeponhurling wrote: »

Similar to Mata I guess, also inconsistent

Still only 23 or 24,consistency will come,i'd take the gamble if available.

Liam O

Mr.Crinklewood wrote: »

Never going to happen while Blind is at three club.

A quick google hasn't given me any clue as to what you mean here either...

posturingpat

Mr.Crinklewood wrote: »

Never going to happen while Blind is at the club.

Have they history?

Sand

beno619 wrote: »

Is there any proof of this ? sure there were rumours but ...

Public proof of private interactions between Ferdinand and the media, his team mates and Moyes? No, of course not. However, Ferdinand's tell-all book revealed Ferdinand was irritated by Moyes banning chips before games. I can just imagine Keano's reaction to that complaint from a team mate when the team is playing crap. Which is the difference between Ferdinand and Keano as a leader.

Rayne Wooney

It's sad that if we sign 1 or 2 players and get a competent manager we could still win this league

Mr.Crinklewood

Liam O wrote: »

A quick google hasn't given me any clue as to what you mean here either...

Its in his contract that he has to be the best looking player in the squad. Gotze would make him look like the love child of Ian Dowie and Carlton Palmer.

posturingpat

Mr.Crinklewood wrote: »

Its in his contract that he has to be the best looking player in the squad. Gotze would make him look like the love child of Ian Dowie and Carlton Palmer.

Now i know why Van Gaal hasn't tried sign me up :pac:

homerjay2005

MrMac84 wrote: »

So you want the board too interfere in managers decisions?? That's a recipe for disaster

Maybe the squad management problems are due to this interference by the board?

seen an article earlier today that the great wage cull of the summer has now seen United have the lowest wage bill compared to turnover in the league-around 50%.

This is due to drop even lower once turnover hits £480m next year. We could sign Lukaku, Mahrez and Stones in the summer, pay them £100k - £120 a week each and we still would be 19th. It suggest that while our wage bill is "higher" than it should be for the quality we have, cost cutting has been a focus over the last 12 months.

So was it LVG choice to get rid of Nani. Evans, Di Maria, Falcao, RVP, Hernandez and Rafael or was he told X amount of wages had to be shifted out and replace them with young lads, on low wages and give youth a chance?

It is probably a mixture of both being realistic. Either way, the planning was been awful and that has been a huge factor in our poor run this last two months.

hufpc8w3adnk65

Mr.Crinklewood wrote: »

Never going to happen while Blind is at the club.

What's the background here?