Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 Mod Note Post #2331

beno619

StringerBell wrote: »

Di Maria, yeah he obviously didn't want to be here. Was he mismanaged? Possibly, but I think he was collateral damage more then anything as LVG kept fecking around with the formation trying to fit in our trio of "world class" strikers. If he were in the team now I think he would have a settled position and be contributing. Him clearly not wanting to be here was a major factor in him not trying a leg on the field though.

Where is the justification for the condemnation for the handing of all these players?

There are enough report out there suggesting that Di Maria got fed up with being messed about by LVG and it wasnt him "not bothering his hole" because he never wanted to be here.

Where is the justification for absolving LVG of blame on handling Di Maria when we have multiple examples of good players not being able to perform in his systems.

Maximus Alexander

beno619 wrote: »

There are enough report out there suggesting that Di Maria got fed up with being messed about by LVG and it wasnt him "not bothering his hole" because he never wanted to be here.

Where is the justification for absolving LVG of blame on handling Di Maria when we have multiple examples of good players not being able to perform in his systems.

Ah in fairness, some of the basic errors Di Maria was making can't be blamed on the system. As the season went on he looked more and more like a player who couldn't be arsed. Maybe he didn't like the system, maybe it never would have allowed him to play at his best, but that's not an excuse to basically check out and stop trying, which is what he appeared to have done in my eyes.

Your Airbag

beno619 wrote: »

There are enough report out there suggesting that Di Maria got fed up with being messed about by LVG and it wasnt him "not bothering his hole" because he never wanted to be here.

Where is the justification for absolving LVG of blame on handling Di Maria when we have multiple examples of good players not being able to perform in his systems.

ADM fcuked off one season after we broke the British transfer record for him. Thats says it all. No loyalty, no desire to prove himself, no hunger to make it work. Young kept him on the bench from about October.

If you watched every UTD game that season and can't see a player who didn't give a toss then your so biased there is no point discussing this with you. Funnily enough most of the strongly Anti LvG people think this.

StringerBell

beno619 wrote: »

There are enough report out there suggesting that Di Maria got fed up with being messed about by LVG and it wasnt him "not bothering his hole" because he never wanted to be here.

Where is the justification for absolving LVG of blame on handling Di Maria when we have multiple examples of good players not being able to perform in his systems.

You missed the point (again) I'm afraid.

You see Homer said he is condemning him due to his handling of Darmian, and several other players. The evidence for that is pretty slim, but regardless, the onus is on the person who makes a claim to provide evidence of such.

Since I did not make a claim (and actually the example you picked out, Di Maria, is the one I clearly did not absolve him of blame oddly) I don't have any claim to prove.

We have multiple examples of players performing quite well in his systems also, this does not prove his is the greatest manager anymore then players not performing well in any way prove it is all down to him.

beno619

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Ah in fairness, some of the basic errors Di Maria was making can't be blamed on the system. As the season went on he looked more and more like a player who couldn't be arsed. Maybe he didn't like the system, maybe it never would have allowed him to play at his best, but that's not an excuse to basically check out and stop trying, which is what he appeared to have done in my eyes.

No different to the basic errors players like Hernandez, RVP, Rooney & Falcao have made under LVG

Not sure how anyone can suggest he stopped trying based on his sporadic appearances during our run in last season.

As you said its all in the imo, we dont have many facts.

StringerBell

Falcao you could see was trying his heart out, it was incredibly sad for me to watch an idol of mine struggle so badly. He gave everything, he just doesn't have it anymore. Nothing like the Di Maria scenario tbf

astonaidan

So guys random question, I want to read one of Fergies books, does any of them cover everything, or would you need to read them all

Giggsy11

bucketybuck wrote: »

I heard Eric Cantona wanted to leave at one stage but Alex Ferguson put his arm around his shoulder and convinced him he was important. I also heard Ole wanted first team football but somehow he was persuaded to stay and play the role of an important squad player. I also remember when there used to be a rhyme and a reason to the development of kids in the first team instead of dropping them in and out willy nilly.

Don't mind me, I guess I just miss the days when we had a good manager that could do those things, you know, managing players.

Fergie was master though, IMO the best ever at least when it comes to managing the squad. The way squad players played for him even though they played very less was just superb and there was a very good feeling about the squad, that they are all together and very close to each other.

Also he knew how to communicate with players when they were dropped. Hernandez never had a problem playing 3rd choice for Fergie, same with so many other players.

Saying this, I wouldn't use Fergie as a benchmark to bash Van Gaal. Both have different styles and that's the reason Van Gaal prefers smaller squad.

Giggsy11

StringerBell wrote: »

Falcao you could see was trying his heart out, it was incredibly sad for me to watch an idol of mine struggle so badly. He gave everything, he just doesn't have it anymore. Nothing like the Di Maria scenario tbf

Felt so bad for him, he couldn't even run few meters without falling on his arse. His decline was worse than Torres'

bangkok

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Felt so bad for him, he couldn't even run few meters without falling on his arse. His decline was worse than Torres'

I didn't. He had a choice of all top clubs in Europe and he left Madrid for Monaco. His move was purely based on money.

I really liked him as a player and was hoping he would do well at United but his confidence was at an all time low the way he was managed. He picked up a nice wage for his year at United though, £265,000 a week so im sure he will be ok

StringerBell

bangkok wrote: »

I didn't. He had a choice of all top clubs in Europe and he left Madrid for Monaco. His move was purely based on money.

I really liked him as a player and was hoping he would do well at United but his confidence was at an all time low the way he was managed. He picked up a nice wage for his year at United though, £265,000 a week so im sure he will be ok

He had very little say in where he played his football actually. Look into the background a little more, plenty going on there.

Liam McPoyle

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I also heard Van Gaal carries around a little cudgel and he was constantly whacking Falcao in the knee with it.

Nice use of cudgel.

Most people would have just said a stick, kudos.

J. Marston

astonaidan wrote: »

So guys random question, I want to read one of Fergies books, does any of them cover everything, or would you need to read them all

I would avoid his latest one. Pile of crap.

bangkok

StringerBell wrote: »

He had very little say in where he played his football actually. Look into the background a little more, plenty going on there.

yea the whole 3rd party ownership stuff, but he could have put his foot down more if he really wanted. Players have all the power at the end of the day

bangkok

Manchester United midfielder Ander Herrera is a January transfer target for Juventus, according to Tuttosport.
According to the Daily Star, Juventus sporting director Fabio Paratici was at Old Trafford for the 2-1 win over Swansea to take a closer look at the Spaniard, who is reportedly valued at 30 million euros.

J. Marston

bangkok wrote: »

Manchester United midfielder Ander Herrera is a January transfer target for Juventus, according to Tuttosport.
According to the Daily Star, Juventus sporting director Fabio Paratici was at Old Trafford for the 2-1 win over Swansea to take a closer look at the Spaniard, who is reportedly valued at 30 million euros.

They'll probably ask to get him on a 4 year loan with an option to buy at the end of the deal.

StringerBell

bangkok wrote: »

yea the whole 3rd party ownership stuff, but he could have put his foot down more if he really wanted. Players have all the power at the end of the day

As I said, look into it.

KH25

bangkok wrote: »

Manchester United midfielder Ander Herrera is a January transfer target for Juventus, according to Tuttosport.
According to the Daily Star, Juventus sporting director Fabio Paratici was at Old Trafford for the 2-1 win over Swansea to take a closer look at the Spaniard, who is reportedly valued at 30 million euros.

They can either f##k off or give us Pogba back in return. Better yet, f##k off and give us Pogba! Would hate to see Hererra go.

bucketybuck

KH25 wrote: »

They can either f##k off or give us Pogba back in return. Better yet, f##k off and give us Pogba! Would hate to see Hererra go.

Where would Pogba play in this "system"?

IamtheWalrus

astonaidan wrote: »

So guys random question, I want to read one of Fergies books, does any of them cover everything, or would you need to read them all

The latest autobiography covers more the later stuff but still touches on all. The book on leading/management does too but from a different angle. I was reading for his tips on management.

I've read his latest 3 and enjoyed them all.

Pro. F

astonaidan wrote: »

So guys random question, I want to read one of Fergies books, does any of them cover everything, or would you need to read them all

I've only read his first autobiography, Managing My Life, and it's fairly boring. He gives very little away in terms of tactics or ideas about football. But he does tell stories in detail and lets loose some juicy bits, so it'd be of interest from a historical point of view, if that's what you're after. But it's rarely exciting and is not written in an entertaining style.

IamtheWalrus

KH25 wrote: »

They can either f##k off or give us Pogba back in return. Better yet, f##k off and give us Pogba! Would hate to see Hererra go.

Has he done much since he arrived? Or is this another case of the manager's fault for playing him out of position.

v3ttel

bangkok wrote: »

Manchester United midfielder Ander Herrera is a January transfer target for Juventus, according to Tuttosport.
According to the Daily Star, Juventus sporting director Fabio Paratici was at Old Trafford for the 2-1 win over Swansea to take a closer look at the Spaniard, who is reportedly valued at 30 million euros.

IamtheWalrus

Pro. F wrote: »

I've only read his first autobiography, Managing My Life, and it's fairly boring. He gives very little away in terms of tactics or ideas about football. But he does tell stories in detail and lets loose some juicy bits, so it'd be of interest from a historical point of view.

I think the reason I enjoyed reading them so much is because, in a world of spoofers, Fergie was not one. When he talks, I listen.

Winston Payne

"The Boss" by Michael Crick was written nearly twenty years ago but I'd say it's still the best book about SAF. If you've been following United for the length most of us have you'd know everything that's happened since then. It's a superbly written book with input from loads of people who interacted with SAF over his career. Not a hagiography at all and all the better for it.


Another of "The Question" pieces went up today and Van Gaal is featured prominently in it. The Question: what is attacking football?.


Excerpt:

After Manchester United’s goalless draw with West Ham in December, Louis van Gaal professed himself baffled by the Old Trafford crowd’s demands for his side to be more attacking. “I don’t understand that they are shouting ‘attack, attack’ because we are the attacking team and not West Ham United,” he said. In doing so, he raised a question that seems fundamental to football and yet is surprisingly hard to answer: what is attacking?

KH25

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Has he done much since he arrived? Or is this another case of the manager's fault for playing him out of position.

Hererra? I think he's a very good player and has been involved in some of our best games under LVG. At the tail end of last season when we went on a run he played very well and some of his linkup play with Mata was brilliant.

RobertKK

I thought watching the last two games there seems to be more effort to get the ball forward, while there was till the backward and sideways passing, there seemed to be more effort going into attack.

Cantona's Collars

StringerBell wrote: »

Falcao you could see was trying his heart out, it was incredibly sad for me to watch an idol of mine struggle so badly. He gave everything, he just doesn't have it anymore. Nothing like the Di Maria scenario tbf

Plus you could see him making runs and getting into positions only to see the ball go wide to Valencia and end up at best flying over his head or at worst being passed backwards.

Rayne Wooney

I believe Van Gaal has fcuked Darmian over somehow

He looked a complete natural at the start, he was torn apart by Sanchez but that's not much of a discredit considering Sanchez is probably in the top 7 or 8 attackers in the world on his day

changing sides, being dropped, being taken off despite plenty of even worse players on the pitch. He'd go to Bayern and be one of the best fullbacks in a year or two

Cantona's Collars

The Mirror saying United won't challenge City for Pep's signature yet Marca (who were first with the leaving Bayern story) say Pep would prefer United.

If United have this defeatist attitude then the board can fukk off,they knew Fergie was retiring yet somehow ended up going for Moyes when the cream of management talent could have been lined up for the day Fergie left.Now it looks like they are heading for the same scenario when LVG leaves.

Lord TSC

Reading that L'Equipe have said Newcastle have had an offer turned down for Lacazette for €25m. Said that Lyon were considering it, and would probably have ok'd it, but he decided he wanted a bigger club than Newcastle.

He was linked with us a fair bit over the summer. I know he'd had a great season last season, but not heard much about him this year.

Flint Fredstone

It's a wonder LVG ever won anything in his career considering he alienates and hates 90% of the players he buys.
What are you doing Louis? Why u buy the players u h8?

bangkok

StringerBell wrote: »

As I said, look into it.

don't see much about it or where to look but im sure a gun wasn't put to his head and he was told to sign a contract with Monaco?

Rossi IRL

If Herrera is sold the i riot, he is my favourite player.

Mitch Connor

Rossi IRL wrote: »

If Herrera is sold the i riot, he is my favourite player.

If Herrera is sold we may as well just give up on LVG/United. Herrera leaving would only be down to LVG just not wanting him at the club. He should be a guaranteed starter, imo.

Rossi IRL

Mitch Connor wrote: »

If Herrera is sold we may as well just give up on LVG/United. Herrera leaving would only be down to LVG just not wanting him at the club. He should be a guaranteed starter, imo.

Should play every game.

He is also one of only a few players who actually show genuine passion for the club.

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/Sport_Witness/status/684728312795656192

bucketybuck

There are some things that are just so obvious that it becomes incredibly frustrating when they aren't happening.

We are better with Morgan in the team, he sits on the bench for 11 games this season. We always look far better with Herrera in the team, he is in and out like a jackhammer.

These aren't insane tactical decisions people are clamouring for, it basically boils down to put the lads in their proper positions, put them on the field and let them play. Yet a year after these cries were first heard we still see people saying "we look better with Hererra in the team, hopefully Van Gaal gives him a long run in the side". Its baffling.

bangkok

zerks wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Sport_Witness/status/684728312795656192

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/manchester-united-have-no-interest-in-pep-guardiola-reports-34340549.html

Lukekul

And who could forget

Herrera against Yeovil

What a hit son!

Cantona's Collars

bangkok wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/manchester-united-have-no-interest-in-pep-guardiola-reports-34340549.html

Posted that,the Mirror going with it also.

Maximus Alexander

bangkok wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/manchester-united-have-no-interest-in-pep-guardiola-reports-34340549.html

Putting on my fantasy hat for a second, of course the club would deny interest so as not to effectively give two fingers to the current manager. It doesn't mean they aren't on the phone to Pep behind the scenes saying "Not to worry chap, we'll have you when he's gone. Sure you can take a sabbatical if need be." :cool:

Mitch Connor

What team would you like to see vs Sheff United?

---

De Gea
Darmian-Smalling-McNair-Blind

---

Schneiderlin

---

Herrera

---

Pereira
Young

---

Memphis

---

Martial

Ideally I'd give Martial a rest, but its either him or Rooney for my lineup.

Wonder if Will Keane will be involved at all.

Your Airbag

RobertKK wrote: »

I thought watching the last two games there seems to be more effort to get the ball forward, while there was till the backward and sideways passing, there seemed to be more effort going into attack.

There definetly was. Against both teams we started with Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger and Herrera in midfeild. Schneiderlin was the only holding midfielder instead of the usual two and Schweinsteiger plus Herrera were given a bit more license to roam up front. Both games were more positive in terms of chance creation, we were very unlucky not too score against Chelsea.

The holding midfielder was more evident against Swansea, so for long periods Schweinsteiger was allowed to partner Herrera higher up the field. This resulted in a two goal win.

I hope LVG keeps picking this formation as much as possible but he will have noticed we had 67% possession against Chelsea and only 55% against Swansea. That too him will represent a risk, as he is a very cautious manager. Almost having 70% possession against Chelsea with a lot of positive chance creation is good and may further encourage LVG to only use a single holding midfielder sparingly, instead of fully committing to it.

Time will tell.

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I believe Van Gaal has fcuked Darmian over somehow

He looked a complete natural at the start, he was torn apart by Sanchez but that's not much of a discredit considering Sanchez is probably in the top 7 or 8 attackers in the world on his day

changing sides, being dropped, being taken off despite plenty of even worse players on the pitch. He'd go to Bayern and be one of the best fullbacks in a year or two

He wasn't fcuked over, changing sides came out of necessity due to injury, a lot of the time, rather then LvG wanting to fcuk over a member of the team he is managing??

Your Airbag

zerks wrote: »

The Mirror saying United won't challenge City for Pep's signature yet Marca (who were first with the leaving Bayern story) say Pep would prefer United.

If United have this defeatist attitude then the board can fukk off,they knew Fergie was retiring yet somehow ended up going for Moyes when the cream of management talent could have been lined up for the day Fergie left.Now it looks like they are heading for the same scenario when LVG leaves.

Lol. Could you have picked two more sensationalist rags? but don't let that stop you saying stuff like "this defeatist attitude then the board can fukk off".

Some posters go out of their way to find things to be negative about.

homerjay2005

going off this report and what the Preston manager said last week, it appears that Will Keane has been told he is coming back to United to be part of the first team as we are short forwards.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/keanes-return-manchester-united-shocks-10694692?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Despite playing 85 minutes for the Under 21s on his return United coach Tommy Martin confirmed that Keane was set for the senior squad.

"I think that's the idea of him coming back from Preston," said Martin, "that hopefully he'll be involved with the first team more than the Under-21s."

homerjay2005

bucketybuck wrote: »

There are some things that are just so obvious that it becomes incredibly frustrating when they aren't happening.

We are better with Morgan in the team, he sits on the bench for 11 games this season. We always look far better with Herrera in the team, he is in and out like a jackhammer.

These aren't insane tactical decisions people are clamouring for, it basically boils down to put the lads in their proper positions, put them on the field and let them play. Yet a year after these cries were first heard we still see people saying "we look better with Hererra in the team, hopefully Van Gaal gives him a long run in the side". Its baffling.

Mata horribly out of form on the right - keeps playing him there.

two holding midfielders at home to some of the worst team in the league - lets keep trying it until it eventually works.

Daley Blind being played out of position - due to not signing a CB after letting Evans go.
Ashley Young being played out of position - due to us having to move other players out of postion.

as you said, its Baffling.

Cantona's Collars

Your Airbag wrote: »

Lol. Could you have picked two more sensationalist rags? but don't let that stop you saying stuff like "this defeatist attitude then the board can fukk off".

Some posters go out of their way to find things to be negative about.

Ah come on,what paper is legit these days? They all recycle each other's stories anyway.

Pep is available in the Summer and imo it would be negligence of the highest order if the board sat by and watched him join City while we put our faith in Ryan Giggs who's sum total of experience is 4 games when Moyes was sacked and spending time in silence sitting beside LVG.
There's rumours of Giggs not being allowed take part in training sessions after the relationship with him and LVG turned frosty.

deaddonkey15

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Mata horribly out of form on the right - keeps playing him there.

two holding midfielders at home to some of the worst team in the league - lets keep trying it until it eventually works.

Daley Blind being played out of position - due to not signing a CB after letting Evans go.
Ashley Young being played out of position - due to us having to move other players out of postion.

as you said, its Baffling.

States that up front is Memphis' best position after the Watford game. Hasn't played him there since.

Rossi IRL

Mitch Connor wrote: »

What team would you like to see vs Sheff United?

---

De Gea/Romero
Varela-McNair-Blind-Darmian

---

Sneiderlin-Goss

---

Herrera
Pereira

---

Memphis

---

Keane

Something like that with a strong bench incase **** hits the fan.

An attack like this either

Young

---

Pereira

---

Depay

Doubt young will play