Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 Mod Note Post #2331

Rayne Wooney

The squad was in poor condition but was good enough to get 4th some players not giving Moyes a chance from as early as September on didn't help matters.

I think Moyes would have done just as well as Van Gaal has given the time and resources Van Gaal has had which really highlights how poor Van Gaal has been as he's the proven "won it all" guy of the two

homerjay2005

Pro. F wrote: »

We finished on the same number of points and scored three more goals the season before RVP signed. So to say that the club was going to struggle for top four without RVP doesn't hold up.

and yet, within 12 months we actually finished 7th...with more or less the same squad.

alot of people could see the squad needed major investment.

LostBoy101

Moyes's biggest downfall was getting rid of Fergie's staff and replacing it with mediocre coaches. If he had kept Mike Phelan and Rene they would have been able to offer advice and steady the ship.

Mitch Connor

homerjay2005 wrote: »

and yet, within 12 months we actually finished 7th...with more or less the same squad.

alot of people could see the squad needed major investment.

The squad Moyes got needed investment - central midfield needed more than Fellaini, apart from that though, it was ok.

He should have done better with the squad he had - it wasn't the 7th best squad in the league, it was better than that. A number of players were rubbish for him - blame to be attributed to many, imo. His failings are similar to LVG imo - training and tactics not appreciated by the players, not suiting the players.

Giggsy11

Januzaj scored against Villa, moved to Germany for 4 months, returned to United and still has more goals in the Premier League than Hazard.

Pro. F

homerjay2005 wrote: »

and yet, within 12 months we actually finished 7th...with more or less the same squad.

David Moyes.

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

David Moyes.

New manager, new coaches, new CEO, huge transition behind the scenes, cant all be pinned on Moyes

raze_them_all_

LostBoy101 wrote: »

Moyes's biggest downfall was getting rid of Fergie's staff and replacing it with mediocre coaches. If he had kept Mike Phelan and Rene they would have been able to offer advice and steady the ship.

Mike I think I should sell all our players and not replace them, what do you think??


"Yes"

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

New manager, new coaches, new CEO, huge transition behind the scenes, cant all be pinned on Moyes

He was still by far the biggest problem though, and certainly he was a lot more of a problem than the quality of the squad.

homerjay2005

Pro. F wrote: »

He was still by far the biggest problem though, and certainly he was a lot more of a problem than the quality of the squad.

i think Moyes should have finished 4th or 5th yes, not 7th. i think, Fergie would have finished 3rd or 4th that season, though at the same time i think we would have improved the squad had Fergie stayed on, several players were available that summer that werent signed for various reason.

but the signs were building for years that things were not going in the right direction and this was brought up here every summer especially. look at our record in europe for example after 2011 - we have won 1 knock out game in 5 years, the 3-0 against Olympiakos.

Rossi IRL

I see Nick Powell has gone on loan to Notts Forrest

TheDoc

homerjay2005 wrote: »

signing RVP turned us from potentially 4th or 5th into champions IMO. no player has ever carried a team like that, for almost an entire season.

i had been expecting us to miss out on top 4 that year before we signed him, sadly it happened within 12 months anyway once other things went wrong.

I was on that side of the fence that the squad was degrading. I would have expected the team to secure top 4, I think that is a bit extreme on your part, but I would agree, and believe, he was the ignition for winning that title, that we would not have won without.

But I think it's really impossible to quantify, the actual affect Ferguson had of being competitive and winning with squads and players that on paper, were not as good as others.

You have to question if he was even aware of his own ability, considering the ridiculous quotes he gave after that title victory, along with Gill. Where for the entire season the writing was clearly on the wall for a number of areas, that transpired into calamity for Moyes.

I was very supportive of him at the time he was in place, when he was gone I started to accept he was out of his depth and made a mess of it, but as time if continuing on, I'm looking at him as very much a victim of circumstance and poor planning/decision making

RobertKK

Harry Redknapp says United could sign Gareth Bale this month.

I doubt it.

Strumms

RobertKK wrote: »

Harry Redknapp says United could sign Gareth Bale this month.

I doubt it.

Depends.. if he was hanging out of his Range Rover when he said it I'd be inclined to believe him

bangkok

Rossi IRL wrote: »

I see Nick Powell has gone on loan to Notts Forrest

thought his injury was holding up a deal?

Mad to think he played in our biggest game of the season away to Wolfsburg!!!

TheDoc

RobertKK wrote: »

Harry Redknapp says United could sign Gareth Bale this month.

I doubt it.

Speaking of those two, Redknapp gave interesting insight into Bale during his Spurs days during The Big Interview with Graham Hunter.

Spoke of how he is a good lad, gets on well with everyone, but is a bit of a messer. Easily distracted. Said he took Bale aside after training one day and gave him a stern talk to buckle down. Cut his hair, do this, do that, and then he started to accelerate on an upward trend.

He commented that in his first Real season, it was the Bale he knew and had worked with, and seeing him recently, he appears to have regressed back into the old one, who can be distracted, and potentially not as focused.

Was an interesting insight I thought anyway.

Pro. F

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i think Moyes should have finished 4th or 5th yes, not 7th. i think, Fergie would have finished 3rd or 4th that season, though at the same time i think we would have improved the squad had Fergie stayed on, several players were available that summer that werent signed for various reason.

but the signs were building for years that things were not going in the right direction and this was brought up here every summer especially.

Yes, you and some others exaggerated every summer and then after a few years, when Moyes came in, you were "proven right." I'm still going to go with the conclusion that Moyes was the problem and you've been over estimating the problems with the squad.

homerjay2005 wrote: »

look at our record in europe for example after 2011 - we have won 1 knock out game in 5 years, the 3-0 against Olympiakos.

Facing Bayern and Real and having two managers making a mess of their jobs will do that to you.

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

Speaking of those two, Redknapp gave interesting insight into Bale during his Spurs days during The Big Interview with Graham Hunter.

Spoke of how he is a good lad, gets on well with everyone, but is a bit of a messer. Easily distracted. Said he took Bale aside after training one day and gave him a stern talk to buckle down. Cut his hair, do this, do that, and then he started to accelerate on an upward trend.

He commented that in his first Real season, it was the Bale he knew and had worked with, and seeing him recently, he appears to have regressed back into the old one, who can be distracted, and potentially not as focused.

Was an interesting insight I thought anyway.

That sounded like Harry trying to take credit for Bale's talent to me.

Del007

just bought this utd hoody on jdsports for 10 euro. seems pretty nice. looks like there's only large left now

http://www.jdsports.ie/147744/147744-mufc-graphic-hoody

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

That sounded like Harry trying to take credit for Bale's talent to me.

Well the conversation started out with him talking about the young players he worked with at West Ham. I think Hunter expected him to say that Bale was the best young talent he ever worked with, and Redknapp said Joe Cole was.

It expanded from there into a conversation about Bale and his infamous loosing streak with Spurs.

Might read like that with me typing it, but I found the tone and context of the conversation genuine. I got the sense and tone from him he was disappointed how Bale had gone on at Madrid. He also made the point he thought the Galatico environment might be a bit dangerous for him. That while a lot of players respond in different ways, Bale responded best when someone was on top of him keeping him focused.

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

Well the conversation started out with him talking about the young players he worked with at West Ham. I think Hunter expected him to say that Bale was the best young talent he ever worked with, and Redknapp said Joe Cole was.

It expanded from there into a conversation about Bale and his infamous loosing streak with Spurs.

Might read like that with me typing it, but I found the tone and context of the conversation genuine. I got the sense and tone from him he was disappointed how Bale had gone on at Madrid. He also made the point he thought the Galatico environment might be a bit dangerous for him. That while a lot of players respond in different ways, Bale responded best when someone was on top of him keeping him focused.

Yeah I heard the podcast. While I have more time for Harry than most do, I still wouldn't trust him even if he sounds genuine.

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

Yeah I heard the podcast. While I have more time for Harry than most do, I still wouldn't trust him even if he sounds genuine.

Oh right, didn't realise you heard it

Quickly turning into one of my favorite pods. Did you hear the Carrick one? Felt like there was a few masked digs in it at LVG

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

Oh right, didn't realise you heard it

Quickly turning into one of my favorite pods. Did you hear the Carrick one? Felt like there was a few masked digs in it at LVG

No I haven't listened to that one yet, sounds interesting. I nearly always enjoy them, but for some reason I usually leave them for weeks before I bother listening to them.

IamtheWalrus

I get the feeling Bale works as hard as Ronaldo, as in, maybe not as naturally talented as Messi but through hard work, has made it to the very top. The thought of him getting lax at a club like Real makes no sense.

homerjay2005

LostBoy101 wrote: »

Moyes's biggest downfall was getting rid of Fergie's staff and replacing it with mediocre coaches. If he had kept Mike Phelan and Rene they would have been able to offer advice and steady the ship.

this cannot be highlighted enough.
manager gone
CE gone.

changes big enough already and what does he do? get rid of integral part of the team and replace them with Pip and Steve...

had he kept the backroom team as it was, bought in three decent players nice and early into the window, he would still be in the job IMO. two huge flaws that cost him before a ball was kicked and there was no way back for him .

Sirsok

New evidence on stephen avery's case made famous in #makingamurderer suggest Louis Van Gaal is actually stephen averys mother, no wonder United are doing ****......he is worried about his son being in jail like any caring mother would

posturingpat

TheDoc wrote: »

Speaking of those two, Redknapp gave interesting insight into Bale during his Spurs days during The Big Interview with Graham Hunter.

Spoke of how he is a good lad, gets on well with everyone, but is a bit of a messer. Easily distracted. Said he took Bale aside after training one day and gave him a stern talk to buckle down. Cut his hair, do this, do that, and then he started to accelerate on an upward trend.

He commented that in his first Real season, it was the Bale he knew and had worked with, and seeing him recently, he appears to have regressed back into the old one, who can be distracted, and potentially not as focused.

Was an interesting insight I thought anyway.

I wouldn't pay much heed to it, i'd say he was just a kid at the time and has grown up. If he wasn't taking things seriously at Madrid he'd be sticking out like a sore thumb as a poor player whereas it stands at the minute he's been one of their better players.

Flint Fredstone

Sirsok wrote: »

New evidence on stephen avery's case made famous in #makingamurderer suggest Louis Van Gaal is actually stephen averys mother, no wonder United are doing ****......he is worried about his son being in jail like any caring mother would

That would probably be funny if he looked remotely like her.

TheDoc

posturingpat wrote: »

I wouldn't pay much heed to it, i'd say he was just a kid at the time and has grown up. If he wasn't taking things seriously at Madrid he'd be sticking out like a sore thumb as a poor player whereas it stands at the minute he's been one of their better players.

As much as I like Bale, and feel he has gotten some harsh criticsm from fans and media, I don't think he was skyrocketed how I imagined he would. An excellent first campaign and still playing well since.

15,13 and 9(this term) goals in the league respectively since joining, I would have maybe hoped or thought he would start breaking the 20 bracket consistently. He has into his third term there.

Neymar by comparison has 9, 22, 14(this term) and feels like he has overshadowed Bale.

I definitely expected and thought Bale would be the much better player with his physique and pace, not so sure now.

Still a quality player mind you and would take him for our right wing in a heartbeat.

Sirsok

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

That would probably be funny if he looked remotely like her.

Okay ill sit back down and go back to lurking...sorry for wasting your time

Pro. F

homerjay2005 wrote: »

this cannot be highlighted enough.
manager gone
CE gone.

changes big enough already and what does he do? get rid of integral part of the team and replace them with Pip and Steve...

had he kept the backroom team as it was, bought in three decent players nice and early into the window, he would still be in the job IMO. two huge flaws that cost him before a ball was kicked and there was no way back for him .

.

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i have zero and i mean absolutely no faith in Phelan.

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i have absolutely no faith in Mike Phelan, i think he is a fraud...cant see how he has such a top class job.

bucketybuck

Continuity is not always about quality.

Pro. F

bucketybuck wrote: »

Continuity is not always about quality.

If he genuinely believed Phelan to be a fraud that he had zero faith in then, in that case, continuity surely couldn't be as important as that rather extreme quality.

Having a fraud as the assistant manager just for the sake of continuity? That just doesn't make sense.

eamondunphy

Sirsok wrote: »

New evidence on stephen avery's case made famous in #makingamurderer suggest Louis Van Gaal is actually stephen averys mother, no wonder United are doing ****......he is worried about his son being in jail like any caring mother would

awful effort

newballsplease

bangkok wrote: »

thought his injury was holding up a deal?

Mad to think he played in our biggest game of the season away to Wolfsburg!!!

What another bizarre decision that was.

Mr.Crinklewood

Loved the display of Giuliano Maiorana v. Arsenal

homerjay2005

Pro. F wrote: »

If he genuinely believed Phelan to be a fraud that he had zero faith in then, in that case, continuity surely couldn't be as important as that rather extreme quality.

Having a fraud as the assistant manager just for the sake of continuity? That just doesn't make sense.

wow, could have sworn that Mike Phelan was just one of 12 or 13 men people in the backroom team. silly me.

sReq | uTeK

Pro. F wrote: »

.

I think you're missing the missing the fundamental point. It's not about having faith in his ability. It's about having a person there who has seen it all before and knows the club inside and out that could have given him a steer in times of hardship.

KH25

Powell being loaned confuses me. How does he go from playing in one of our most important games to dispensable? Same as adman, in the team regularly the first bit of the season and then just gone.

v3ttel

Pro. F wrote: »

If he genuinely believed Phelan to be a fraud that he had zero faith in then, in that case, continuity surely couldn't be as important as that rather extreme quality.

Having a fraud as the assistant manager just for the sake of continuity? That just doesn't make sense.

If Moyes kept the backroom team and it didn't work out, the point would be, why didn't he bring in his own people instead of getting rid of the useless members of staff. When Moyes brought in his own people and it didn't work out, then the opposite point is made.

It's all hindsight and it's all nonsense IMHO. When results don't come, people will find a way to criticise. It's the easiest thing in the world to criticise. However, it's not as easy to make the correct decision at the right time. If it were so easy, we'd all be Fergusons, Codys, etc.

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

I think you're missing the missing the fundamental point. It's not about having faith in his ability. It's about having a person there who has seen it all before and knows the club inside and out that could have given him a steer in times of hardship.

Would you really want to be steered by somebody who is incompetent, because they have been at the club before though?

By the way, I have no idea if Phelan was a good or bad assistant manager, or if the rest of the staff were good or bad, I have no idea what they did day to day at the club or what people at the club thought of them.

I don't see how anybody can make conclusive judgement on a guy whose role is generally behind the scenes, without directly working with him or being in or around the club. Same goes for Woodward for that matter.

homerjay2005

KH25 wrote: »

Powell being loaned confuses me. How does he go from playing in one of our most important games to dispensable? Same as adman, in the team regularly the first bit of the season and then just gone.

shows a lack of planning to be honest from LVG.

v3ttel

v3ttel wrote: »

When results don't come, people will find a way to criticise. It's the easiest thing in the world to criticise.

Annnnnnnnnnd, having said that.......

Nick Powell, is gone out on loan. WTF was he doing being brought on against Wolfsburg? :pac:

StringerBell

Certainly nothing to do with injury anyway, I would hope that Powell has asked to go on loan and try to show some consistency in his performances and maybe he will not be a total write off. He isn't going to get a run in the first team, the reserves are pointless for him. Good luck to him hope he grabs the opportunity with both hands.

StringerBell

v3ttel wrote: »

Annnnnnnnnnd, having said that.......

Nick Powell, is gone out on loan. WTF was he doing being brought on against Wolfsburg? :pac:

Injury had the options thin enough, we needed a goal and he has a bit of an eye for that apparently so given all the circumstance at the time it was not the worst substitution I have ever seen but it would certainly have been nicer to have a real better alternative on the bench to bring on for the task required

(Na I did get ya)

No way I'd be getting back in to that one again tbh, as I said hope he does well on loan. Talent is in there with that lad, shame about the injury. Hope he can do enough to get a chance, probably not at United but with a smaller club.

Via wolfsburg Mata was playing 10 and was wrecked we had Powell and Pereira to come on for that position, while it could be argued that Pereira should have come on the sub isn't as anywhere near as crazy as people make out.

Flint Fredstone

Sirsok wrote: »

Okay ill sit back down and go back to lurking...sorry for wasting your time

Sorry, that came off a bit dickish, I didn't mean it like that. Just seen so many "lookalikes" for him that just don't look anything like him. They're usually auld ones. The one on the bus is the only one that looks anything like him

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Via wolfsburg Mata was playing 10 and was wrecked we had Powell and Pereira to come on for that position, while it could be argued that Pereira should have come on the sub isn't as anywhere near as crazy as people make out.

While I think that Powell was the wrong call over Pereira on the night, I think a mountain was made out of a molehill with the reaction over it. It was as if LVG just took him out from the wardrobe, dusted him off and chucked him on the field. The reality is that he had showed promise in recent u21 matches and didn't just appear out of nowhere. Wrong call on the night, but not mental as it was made out to be. The result and performance and implication of the defeat is what blew up the reaction up to the levels it reached.

homerjay2005

stankratz wrote: »

While I think that Powell was the wrong call over Pereira on the night, I think a mountain was made out of a molehill with the reaction over it. It was as if LVG just took him out from the wardrobe, dusted him off and chucked him on the field. The reality is that he had showed promise in recent u21 matches and didn't just appear out of nowhere. Wrong call on the night, but not mental as it was made out to be. The result and performance and implication of the defeat is what blew up the reaction up to the levels it reached.

errm,as far as i recall he played an u-21 game the week before and the manager said he was unfit and lacking match practice. think he came off after 60 minutes in that one. i dont think he played much more than that.

bringing on Nick Powell was one of the most baffling things LVG has done in terms of team selection since he joined.

StringerBell

Hyper-bole.

deaddonkey15

Deleted User wrote: »

Via wolfsburg Mata was playing 10 and was wrecked we had Powell and Pereira to come on for that position, while it could be argued that Pereira should have come on the sub isn't as anywhere near as crazy as people make out.

It was a shocking call. His last senior appearance before that was the 4-0 defeat to MK Dons. Pereira had at least played this season and is more suited to that position. Does Powell even play No. 10? I always thought of him as more of a central midfielder.