Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 Mod Note Post #2331

ericzeking

Liam O wrote: »

Have Herrera and Mata been good this season? I'd disagree. Fellaini hasn't been as good as he was last season but I'd apply that too basically everyone in the team bar Smalling.

Herrera has been pants this season, a guy with an awful lot of potential but is not showing it in this set up, even with the run of games he's gotten lately. What with leaving him out earlier, I think he doesn't suit the manager.

I just read an article talking about Januzaj and the BVB managers comments about his attitude etc.

It's my big worry about LVG, that we will end up letting go some really good young players, such as Herrera or Januzaj and we'll end up with another Pogba situation, looking on as a guy tears it up elsewhere.

On last night...I'd like to see more of a 2 up front of Rooney and Martial, I never thought I'd long for 442 but I think they could have the bones of a partnership. Martial has to be let off the leash of hugging the touchline, he is very elusive when given his head.

I thought we could have played a diamond with Basti at the base to dictate and Mata at the tip, Herera and Felli pushing on too with 2 up last night and let the full backs push on. There was no need for a flat back 4 last night. At one stage I saw Martial in the left back position and I just sighed....

beno619

Headshot wrote: »

I feel sorry for him. I dont like him as a player and I dont think he's good enough for utd but he appears to be the fault for everything and he's far from it

He's been one of our better performers this season which doesn't say much, but should be low on the list of players to be criticised.

newballsplease

Had to agree with everything Scholes was saying last night on B.T

Did anyone notice his reaction after Rooneys interview when he said they were improving as a Team ?!

He looked disgusted.

Lord TSC

Headshot wrote: »

I feel sorry for him. I dont like him as a player and I dont think he's good enough for utd but he appears to be the fault for everything and he's far from it

I wonder if it's a hangover from Moyes. Fel basically could be seen as the personification of Moyes' tenure; the dodgy first transfer window, the indecisiveness (in terms of never settling into one role in the team and never being sure what his manager wants of him), the mentality of "He's below us".

I agree that he's not good enough for a top team, but I think he's never shown his form that he did at Everton, and I'm not sure how much of that is him and how much is the managers. Moyes never seemed to figure out if he wanted Fel to be a midfielder, #10 or a striker, and Fel often looked lost (as did everyone that year) without proper instructions. LVG comes in and, again, Fel shifts from striker to #10 to defensive midfielder, target man, enforcer....

His role over the last three years has never been clearly defined. But then I guess a lot of players are suffering the same way, but don't get singled out the same way he does.

beno619

newballsplease wrote: »

Had to agree with everything Scholes was saying last night on B.T

Did anyone notice his reaction after Rooneys interview when he said they were improving as a Team ?!

He looked disgusted.

Looked like he was physically ill after watching that.

How anyone could think he's "trying to get his buddy a job" after watching that, I don't know.

He's a fan who's pissed off like the wrest of us.

IamtheWalrus

beno619 wrote: »

Looked like he was physically ill after watching that.

How anyone could think he's "trying to get his buddy a job" after watching that, I don't know.

He's a fan who's pissed off like the wrest of us.

He's in danger of becoming a Dunphy though.

J. Marston

The Rooney praise made me disregard anything he has to say.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CA_2X4AuR4s

"Pass the ball to Wayne Rooney. This is Wayne Rooney, you get the ball to your best players. Wayne Rooney, one of the best players, one of the best centre forwards."

Load of bullshít eaten up by people because it's passionate.

TheDoc

As above.

The only notable point he made was about players being out of position.

The Rooney point was laughable. Every second ball that was put into him yesterday bounced off him

Liam O

ericzeking wrote: »

Herrera has been pants this season, a guy with an awful lot of potential but is not showing it in this set up, even with the run of games he's gotten lately. What with leaving him out earlier, I think he doesn't suit the manager.

I would agree he's not been good, I think you are being slightly harsh on LVG. Lots of people were calling for Herrera at no. 10 earlier in the season which I thought was silly as he clearly doesn't suit that position imo.

He's a battling centre mid with good link up play. Probably one of the only players at the team who could play the link man between defense, midfield and the forwards to a high level and because of playing 2 of Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin and Carrick in there so deep this season there is generally nobody coming up with the ball with any great threat.

Contrary to a lot of people I'd keep Martial out wide. Play him where Messi or Neymar play and Memphis on the other side. Tell them to not bother with defense. I mean, pressure in your area but don't be chasing back all the time and compromising your attacking position. Keep a high line of forwards which stops the opposition getting players forward and also gives more options for a counter attack.

I think signing a real driving influence through the middle is more important than anything else. A Barkley type player would make a lot of difference to this team imo.

Blatter

TheDoc wrote: »

As above.

The only notable point he made was about players being out of position.

The Rooney point was laughable. Every second ball that was put into him yesterday bounced off him

I think he makes a good point when he talks about the players and fans being bored and lacking any sort of joy. Nobody looks happy and it doesn't look like this will change under LVG.

There's a serious lack of motivation among the players which the fans can easily sense. It all feels very wrong. I think it's a matter of time before he goes and the board are just biding their time whilst deciding what route to take with regards appointing a successor.

Nalz

J. Marston wrote: »

The Rooney praise made me disregard anything he has to say.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CA_2X4AuR4s

"Pass the ball to Wayne Rooney. This is Wayne Rooney, you get the ball to your best players. Wayne Rooney, one of the best players, one of the best centre forwards."

Load of bullshít eaten up by people because it's passionate.

So if someone makes 5 or 6 points and one of them seems outrageous or silly you disregard everything else? Eh ok!

Rooney has probably played well max 4 or 5 times this season which is appalling for him. However, there is some (however small or not big) connection to how the team is playing and his big dip in form... Surely?

v3ttel

TheDoc wrote: »

The only notable point he made was about players being out of position.

The football isn't boring and negative? There isn't square pegs in round holes? There is a sense of urgency about the team? The team are lifting the crowd?

I would agree with anyone who slates how bad Wayne Rooney has been over the last 12 months or more, but he would be better in a system that isn't so sterile, with players who have pace, who make runs in behind, who take on defenders, who create chances. He may not be the player of old and never will be again, but there is definitely more than we're seeing now in the current system.

Scholes speaks a lot of sense in that piece IMHO and he is as frustrated as the rest of us.

Kerrydude1981

v3ttel wrote: »

The football isn't boring and negative? There isn't square pegs in round holes? There is a sense of urgency about the team? The team are lifting the crowd?

I would agree with anyone who slates how bad Wayne Rooney has been over the last 12 months or more, but he would be better in a system that isn't so sterile, with players who have pace, who make runs in behind, who take on defenders, who create chances. He may not be the player of old and never will be again, but there is definitely more than we're seeing now in the current system.

Scholes speaks a lot of sense in that piece IMHO and he is as frustrated as the rest of us.

The team badly needs someone to come in and give them a new lease of life,LVG has sucked the life out of these players with his philosophy and now they are just like robots,keep repeating the same thing over and over again.

Would Diego Simone be the man for the job? Revitalise the players.

bangkok

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

The team badly needs someone to come in and give them a new lease of life,LVG has sucked the life out of these players with his philosophy and now they are just like robots,keep repeating the same thing over and over again.

Would Diego Simone be the man for the job? Revitalise the players.

He can't even speak English so that would be a big no

RobertKK

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

The team badly needs someone to come in and give them a new lease of life,LVG has sucked the life out of these players with his philosophy and now they are just like robots,keep repeating the same thing over and over again.

Would Diego Simone be the man for the job? Revitalise the players.

Don't think Simeone wants to leave Atletico.

Wouldn't mind Laurent Blanc, he has experience of the club, his team plays nice football, former United player and I think he would suit the club.

Rayne Wooney

If Mourinho was an option he would be in already, a disastrous CL campaign didn't get him sacked, deservedly falling from top 4 didn't get him sacked, playing absolutely appalling football for the best part of 18 months hasn't got him sacked

Giggs is the alternative so they may as well keep Van Gaal until summer.

homerjay2005

Yesterday was a new low for me,never in my time as a unite fan have I seen or heard United fans jeering ironically our own players.

One man I was talking to afterwards said he is going to old Trafford for almost 40 years and he said the first half yesterday was the worst he has seen at the ground.

LVG is the luckiest man in sport right now, it's a miracle he still has a job and its even more baffling how this team is 5th in the league,we deserve to be nowhere near it. We are all glad to get the win but it's counterproductive in terms of progress as there is none.

A draw yesterday would have been a disaster but it may have quickened the process of getting rid of him. Not that I expect it anytime soon sadly.

Liam O

I watched the Scholes interview there. I agree with pretty much everything tbh. Obviously in those rants one or two points can get muddled and slightly different to what he meant but in general it's tough to disagree with anything.

I also realise bangkok's paraphrasing of Scholes last night with regards Fellaini was even more embarrassing than I thought, he wasn't even criticising him as a player, more where he's being played.

StringerBell

Must have missed the ironic jeers directed at players like Fellaini, Nani, Valencia, Cleverley etc in the past so

Cantona's Collars

Billy Sharp had more touches in our penalty area than Rooney had in theirs despite us owning the ball.He was on a loser yesterday as he dropped nearly into a DM role trying to influence the play.

I watched the goals from La Liga and you could see the attackers busting a gut to link up and get on the end of passes,our attackers seem to get so far and stop,pass sideways,stop.It's so static that it's easy to defend against,no movement to pull defenders out of position and create space to exploit.Pass and move is not rocket science yet it seems to be an alien concept at United these days.

fatherted1969

The really sad thing about it all is there's nothing there to suggest the corner is in sight never mind turning it. Sure we got the win but all that means is its just another septic performance to watch. I cannot remember a period in the last 37 years where I was as browned off with performances not results. I've been saying for weeks now that the players have given up on LVG. There will not be champions league football if this manager remains in charge indeed I'd go as far as to say there may not be Europa league football either. There is easily 7 or 8 teams capable of finishing ahead of us this season. It's unacceptable, Motes was gone for far less

Rossi IRL

I think the next manager will be Pochetino. Should be anyway, his team has the best defense and still score goals going forward.

Discodog

Scholes is right about passing the ball to our best players. Unfortunately Rooney is our main striker. No matter how badly he is playing he won't improve without the ball. He isn't going anywhere soon so we might as well hope that he improves.

Someone has to voice the feelings of the fans. I am beginning to thank that mass booing with be the only thing to make LvG resign - the board won't sack him.

Discodog

Rossi IRL wrote: »

I think the next manager will be Pochetino. Should be anyway, his team has the best defense and still score goals going forward.

I did see some story in one of the rags claiming that we are considering him. I definitely want a manager with recent PL experience.

homerjay2005

StringerBell wrote: »

Must have missed the ironic jeers directed at players like Fellaini, Nani, Valencia, Cleverley etc in the past so

There's a world of a difference between people having an issue with one player and what happened yesterday. I recall it happening once to Valencia, once to Nani, 3 years apart. Don't recall it ever happening to Cleverly

But ill let you pretend otherwise anyway.

Cantona's Collars

We are level with Villa......FUCKING VILLA!! for chances created per game.

So much for all the talk of a team meeting and more freedom for players and in training the emphasis changing.

kstand

Was at the game yesterday. In the 20 something years I have been going I have never come across the place as disillusioned and apathetic as yesterday. Supporters I talked to, the season tickets holders around me on the lower North Stand. Lost count of the number of square passes played. It was dire.

homerjay2005

zerks wrote: »

We are level with Villa......FUCKING VILLA!! for chances created per game.

So much for all the talk of a team meeting and more freedom for players and in training the emphasis changing.

Van gaal thinks there is not much wrong apart from bad luck, signings not settling in and injuries.

And if you look back at his after Match interviews, majority of them contain the words "we created a lot of chances".

His views on our performances and style is truelt bizarre

homerjay2005

kstand wrote: »

Was at the game yesterday. In the 20 something years I have been going I have never come across the place as disillusioned and apathetic as yesterday. It was dire.

It's been like this for months! I've been going to games and fans around me are just standing there going through the motions, like the team.

Even under Moyes the levels of discontent amongest the fans never reached this level, which says alot. Problem is, it's not yet getting to LVG or Woodward

Lord TSC

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Even under Moyes the levels of discontent amongest the fans never reached this level, which says alot. Problem is, it's not yet getting to LVG or Woodward

The problem is that when fans try to communicate it, be it through planes or Jose scarfs or whatever, they get absolutely lambasted by other fans.

Until there's an open revolt, which goes beyond an ironic cheer, its clear they won't sack LVG.

Discodog

homerjay2005 wrote: »

It's been like this for months! I've been going to games and fans around me are just standing there going through the motions, like the team.

Even under Moyes the levels of discontent amongest the fans never reached this level, which says alot. Problem is, it's not yet getting to LVG or Woodward

Which is why I think that the fans will need to be a lot more vocal even if some call them disloyal for trying to protect the club.

kstand

homerjay2005 wrote: »

It's been like this for months! I've been going to games and fans around me are just standing there going through the motions, like the team.

Even under Moyes the levels of discontent amongest the fans never reached this level, which says alot. Problem is, it's not yet getting to LVG or Woodward

I brought my young lad with me yesterday, his first game. Several supporters I talked to said the same thing you just said. The Stret sang a few songs but it was totally flat. Depay took a shot in the second half and it went a few yards wide and there was a huge cheer from the crowd because someone had a go. Totally and utterly shapeless and one dimensional. I knew things were bad but being there really drove it home. Are the board that blind and clueless that they will stick with this clown? It's all well and good signing deals with shoe companies in the Far East but if what I saw yesterday is persisted with those deals will cease to exist.

Discodog

Lord TSC wrote: »

The problem is that when fans try to communicate it, be it through planes or Jose scarfs or whatever, they get absolutely lambasted by other fans.

Until there's an open revolt, which goes beyond an ironic cheer, its clear they won't sack LVG.

I don't think that they will sack him. If he goes, he will resign.

kstand

Discodog wrote: »

Which is why I think that the fans will need to be a lot more vocal even if some call them disloyal for trying to protect the club.

Agree - it's time the fans started calling for his head and hanging banners to that effect. 2 big games coming up now away from home.

Robson99

Lord TSC wrote: »

The problem is that when fans try to communicate it, be it through planes or Jose scarfs or whatever, they get absolutely lambasted by other fans.

Until there's an open revolt, which goes beyond an ironic cheer, its clear they won't sack LVG.

Boycott a game for one week and they would soon get the message.
Players have given up on LVG. Dont see us near the top 4 at Easter let alone end of season.
Dont expect any signings this window either tbh. Only positivity is that Pep is still available

GSPfan

I would be delighted with Pochettino as a candidate to replace Van Gaal. I would have been happy with him as a wild card to replace Moyes and now he has more experience under his belt and in my eyes has over achieved with both Southampton and Spurs now. Some might say he has achieved nothing with Spurs but id disagree as I think he inherited a team with a lot of problems and he steadied the ship very well and now has a team that a United fan would be proud to watch.

I can only see Van Gaal keeping his job if United have someone lined up to take over in the Summer. That may be Guardiola or it may be someone else but it doesn't make sense for United to keep with Van Gaal with Mourinho readily available.

ericzeking

On the Scholes rant, I think people are getting caught up and interpreting everything too literally, I think when he says get it to Rooney, our 'best player', he means get it forward quickly to the people who 'can potentially' do damage and stop farting about with it between the CBs and the DMs...and anyway Rooney could still be argued to be our best player, he's out of form, but so is every other player in the squad bar DDG and Smalling and possibly Ashley Young.

And the singling out of Fellaini by some posters is an absolute joke at this stage, he has been no better or worse than anyone in the squad at what he is being asked to do.

Manutd_4life

F***ing hell. LVG complaining about Sheffield Utd playing with 10 or 11 men behind the ball and therefore it isn't easy to play and create opportunities.

Just watched the opening 20 minutes of the Chelsea vs Scunthorpe game. Scunthorpe playing/defending exactly how Sheffield were yet Chelsea are playing fast free flowing football with runners, through balls, shots on goals, dummies and overall it is entertaining to watch.

I'm getting really sick of LVG excuses. :mad:

Liam O

Manutd_4life wrote: »

F***ing hell. LVG complaining about Sheffield Utd playing with 10 or 11 men behind the ball and therefore it isn't easy to play and create opportunities.

Just watched the opening 20 minutes of the Chelsea vs Scunthorpe game. Scunthorpe playing/defending exactly how Sheffield were yet Chelsea are playing fast free flowing football with runners, through balls, shots on goals, dummies and overall it is entertaining to watch.

I'm getting really sick of LVG excuses. :mad:

And yet they are only 1-0 up going into half time. Shef United are probably a better team than Scunthorpe too (and my cousin plays for Scunthorpe ). Using Chelsea as a barometer for how United should play would be counter productive this season I feel somehow .

StringerBell

homerjay2005 wrote: »

There's a world of a difference between people having an issue with one player and what happened yesterday. I recall it happening once to Valencia, once to Nani, 3 years apart. Don't recall it ever happening to Cleverly

But ill let you pretend otherwise anyway.

Yes, because you not recalling it means it never happened.

homerjay2005

As bad and all as Rooney has been, and as poor as Fellaini is, Juan Mata has been getting away with murder with United fans. Selected for every game,been taken off in almost every game, constantly one of worst performers week in, week out.

Very few people seem to acknowledge how awful he has been this year for us and he is exempt from criticism.

StringerBell

Lord TSC wrote: »

The problem is that when fans try to communicate it, be it through planes or Jose scarfs or whatever, they get absolutely lambasted by other fans.

Until there's an open revolt, which goes beyond an ironic cheer, its clear they won't sack LVG.

I find its more to do with how they communicate it though, plenty of people are critical, highly critical of Van Gaal and the team but they are able to do it in a rational way instead of needing to find anything remotely negative to pin on him when it really isn't his fault.

There is enough there to criticise him with without having to blame him for stuff that is not his fault basically. Wanting him gone is understandable, blaming him for not being able to get the team playing cohesively and balanced in that they can be solid defensively but still a threat going forward and after 18 months seemingly being no closer to this goal then he was at the start of his reign is justification to think its time to replace him.

He has done his primary job anyway at this point which was to steady the ship after Moyes and get us back into CL football, he will undo all of that if we miss out though this year though the squad is improved imo.

I hope he turns it around, but the signs are just not there that its going to happen. I am thinking about the next manager at this point and the tools he will have available to him will be good so as long as we don't drop out of the CL we will be in a much stronger position going forward then at the end of the Moyes reign.

Additions needed of course, there always is and will be.

I'm going off point, having clear defined evidence for why this is not good enough (and there is plenty of it) gets lost among the histrionics and hyperbole and do nobody any good.

Fans voicing concern is not disloyal, fans feeling a change of manager is needed is not disloyal.

Getting the point across reasonably would go a long way to proper debate on the subject.

ps, those Jose scarves were as embarrassing as anything the team has produced in the last 3 years

StringerBell

homerjay2005 wrote: »

As bad and all as Rooney has been, and as poor as Fellaini is, Juan Mata has been getting away with murder with United fans. Selected for every game,been taken off in almost every game, constantly one of worst performers week in, week out.

Very few people seem to acknowledge how awful he has been this year for us and he is exempt from criticism.

It is his position that people are always talking about upgrading actually.

kstand

Feillaini wasn't that bad yesterday but there still a huge cheer when he went off. Apparently after the game he had his hood fully over his head and his head down going for the tunnel. I feel sorry for him, he's not a central midfielder. He's an option as an old style centre forward but not much more.

StringerBell

Fellaini being scapegoated is very sad to see, must be quite tough for him mentally knowing so much of the support seems to be against him.

Its pretty impossible to let him go though until another two players come in to replace him and provide more depth

TheDoc

homerjay2005 wrote: »

As bad and all as Rooney has been, and as poor as Fellaini is, Juan Mata has been getting away with murder with United fans. Selected for every game,been taken off in almost every game, constantly one of worst performers week in, week out.

Very few people seem to acknowledge how awful he has been this year for us and he is exempt from criticism.

I think there is acceptance in the fact Mata is being played out of position in an experiment, and trying his best.

If Mata had played 15 games at #10 and being crap, then I'm sure he would be getting more ****

Flint Fredstone

Mata's thing is knitting together a functioning attack. He won't look good in a team playing poorly.
Look at the games against the likes of City and Liverpool last season, he is usually the standout player when the front line play well.

He's never going to look good when there's a lack of movement and options ahead of him. It the team continues to play shíte then Mata will continue to play shíte, he's not the type of player to bail you out or grab the game by the scruff.
A class player in a team functioning well though.

Strumms

Problem with Fellaini is that he is not a Man Utd player. He was a panic buy and even the guy who bought him and managed him previously had no clue what to do with him. To see him scapegoated is is out of order. Any time I have watched him he gives his all in terms of effort at least.

I've seen people mentioning players and calling them out to be benched sold whatever. There is nobody in our squad this season who has consistently performed under this regime with perhaps the exception of Smalling who has been the best centre back in the league by miles. I'm not saying the players shouldn't be responsible but you don't become **** individually or collectively over night.

LVG needs to go... More time ? Why he is out of here in 18 months anyway he won't achieve much more then a cup run and CL qualification in my view. Get in a young guy for the future...Pep, Potitchino etc. 18 more months of this and another 200 million spent ? I'd rather give it to a young manager who will invest in the future of the team and not some bs stubborn arsed philosophy vanity project.

jayo26

For anyone thats intrested there is a footballs greatest on at 4 on sky sports 5 looking back at the treble winning side.

MD1990

Schweinsteiger is past it & now a poor CM. Sneiderlein not starting is very strange.