Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 Mod Note Post #2331

Strumms

StringerBell wrote: »

That hardly negates the good work he did for the goal. If we hadn't scored the third we wouldn't have been in a position to make a bollix of it. He wasn't the only one who was at fault for the goal though for the life of me I can't understand what he was doing.

It doesn't negate it and he is entitled to the credit for it. The reason he isn't starting for us I don't think is due to any lack of ability going forward but because he has been a liability when it comes to doing what is expected of him defensively. He was massively exposed in the Arsenal game where nearly everything came down his side, he didn't bother his hole in that game and other games too and since then he hasn't been a starter. Martial on the other hand is completely different willing to track back and strong in the tackle.

Headshot

sigmundv wrote: »

Easy to say in hindsight, but CBJ at left back would have made a big difference in the final five minutes.

I was thinking McNair should come on have a 5 man defence or have in in CM

edgecutter

posturingpat wrote: »

Good to see it's all Fellainis fault once more even though he probably won more ball than any other Utd player :rolleyes:

He is the scape goat, but in fairness he was crap and missed a sitter.

Let's not kid ourselves lads, we are nowhere near good enough for top four.

Lord TSC

M!Ck^ wrote: »

No what you are doing is outright disrespect to how challenging the English league has become and the standard of these "so called 3 pointer teams" I'm sorry to say it no longer exists.

I'm discussing this match by the way and yes we ****ed away 3 points because there were blatant chances missed at two critical points in the game.

Mick, I'm all for acknowledging the fact the league has gotten stronger and harder, but it still doesn't change the fact we got 5 points out of 15 against teams who are struggling round the relegation zone. Its not struggling to beat a top of the league Leicester, or Stoke, or Watford, usually small teams in the top half of the table.

We're struggling to beat teams who are getting battered by others. Newcastle had failed to win 4 games and couldn't score to save their lives. We let them put three past us.

But it's not just one game. It's two months now of struggling. It goes way beyond facing stronger teams, because we've had an incredibly "easy" run facing teams who were in worse form than us, and can't get wins at all.

We can't keep taking one game, ignoring all others, and making excuses. A league is based accross 40 games, and we're halfway through now, with only 9 wins, and slipping further down the table with each game.

Off the back of one game, you can't nessecarily blame LVG, but he's not able to address or fix the rot thats set in big time. He's failing at his job, not based on a single game, but on the entire season so far.

Liam O

thebigredone wrote: »

What did he do with it then? Gave it away quite a bit too! I agree schneiderlin was pretty quiet, lucky for him fellaini was worse.

Fellaini played quite well, especially in the 2nd half, some great tackling.

Headshot

beno619 wrote: »

Not necessarily very similar to the Wolfsburg game, we can attack or defend. Not both.

After 18 month's he hasn't been able to put out a balanced team/philosophy.

Thats a good point.

Your dead on there. Its like deja vu. LVG just cant put out a team to have middle ground of attacking and defending

Canadel

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Yes, yes they have

You can't win forever.

You can run a club properly though.

And with more financial resources than ever, expectations should not be falling below a certain level. If Van Gaal doesn't get top 4 he has to go. No question.

TheDoc

Headshot wrote: »

And thats the problem. You are asking for trouble in that circumstances. Jose would of closed up shop straight away. Pep would of passed the other team off the field.

Utd were far far to open.

That came across to me much more as the players being rattled, then the managers failings. He was up giving instruction, first time I've see nhim do it.

He clearly wasnt happy with how they were managing the game.

adox

bangkok wrote: »

fellaini is trending on twitter, lots and lots of United fans not happy one bit.

sickening.

should have been 4-2. game over keep the ball last few minutes, 3 points everyone happy and then onto liverpool. Now we and LVG under huge pressure, maybe his last game this sunday

Ignoring your boring monotonous blabber re Fellaini, there isn't a hope of Sunday's game being Van Gaals last, no matter what the result.


Not a hope.

beno619

sigmundv wrote: »

Easy to say in hindsight, but CBJ at left back would have made a big difference in the final five minutes.

What hindsight ? It's a the simple conclusion to draw after scoring a late goal.

bangkok

adox wrote: »

Ignoring your boring monotonous blabber re Fellaini, there isn't a hope of Sunday's game being Van Gaals last, no matter what the result.


Not a hope.

a 4-0 liverpool victory and van gaal will be sacked

StringerBell

beno619 wrote: »

Should have hooked off a forward for CBJ or McNair.

Gone 5 at the back? Played with wing backs? Which forward would you have taken off?

Do you lay any blame at all tonight on any player at all? I thought we shut up shop too early watching it, we were running in to the corner with 10 minutes left. Thats a long time to be arsing around. Shutting up shop wasn't the issue. Mental fragility seems to be a pretty big one however.

0gac3yjefb5sv7

bucketybuck wrote: »

Indeed, it might be an competitive league but that doesn't mean Newcastle aren't a rubbish team who until tonight couldn't score goals. And forget about last minute equalisers, they had plenty of chances to score during that game and it was no real shock that they eventually got the third.

Its ****ing Newcastle, shove each and every tired excuse up your holes because the fact is that we should be beating them at a canter. But this is where we are at, this is Van Gaals United, and its worse than Moyes ever was.

Exactly.

adox

bangkok wrote: »

a 4-0 liverpool victory and van gaal will be sacked

Lol.

StringerBell

beno619 wrote: »

Not necessarily very similar to the Wolfsburg game, we can attack or defend. Not both.

After 18 month's he hasn't been able to put out a balanced team/philosophy.

You could have just quoted Pro.f you know, didn't even give him a credit

Manutd_4life

Did anyone else love how furious and outraged LVG was today at times!!!!

That is the LVG we all expected to see when he first came in to the club. I think at one point he even got off his seat to give the players some direction...I know, i can't believe it either :P

sigmundv

It has really become apparent as the season has gone on that we are in the exactly same position as we were when Moyes left. A sad indictment, really. :-\

RVN10

Like I am being honest here lads , we need to take our heads out of arses... We are a complete and utter f'ing shambles.. LVG clearly cant motivate that team and also Ryan Giggs can do one aswell.


Absolute sh!t the whole lot of this is lads we are turning into a second rate team....

StringerBell

Headshot wrote: »

I was thinking McNair should come on have a 5 man defence or have in in CM

Are you thinking the 11 players who were on the pitch are not equipped to see out a game like that? Too much experience out there or something?

bangkok

adox wrote: »

Lol.

lol at what?

we are showing relegation form, out of the top 4, out of the league cup, out of the champions league, barely scraped through to fa cup 4th round, playing crap and will do very well now to finish in the top 4

StringerBell

beno619 wrote: »

What hindsight ? It's a the simple conclusion to draw after scoring a late goal.

How many people called for it in the match thread do you know?

keeponhurling

Darmian was pretty poor tonight, for supposedly a specialist full back

StringerBell

I'll come back to see what responses I got later, I can't deal with this place tonight I'm ****ing sickened. Later gentlemen.

Headshot

adox wrote: »

Ignoring your boring monotonous blabber re Fellaini, there isn't a hope of Sunday's game being Van Gaals last, no matter what the result.


Not a hope.

Unfortunately its going to be another end of the season fiasco when we dont have CL anymore.

The board really need to get there act together. either buy LVG the 4 spot or sack him

Rossi IRL

https://twitter.com/lagaalaxy/status/687034850398830593

Some random person, could be made up.

Headshot

StringerBell wrote: »

Are you thinking the 11 players who were on the pitch are not equipped to see out a game like that? Too much experience out there or something?

yup

The likes of Depay, mata or Martial should of been subbed. It would of been hard for Depay but I would subbed him because all the damage was coming down his side

Lord TSC

Lord TSC wrote: »

Mick, I'm all for acknowledging the fact the league has gotten stronger and harder, but it still doesn't change the fact we got 5 points out of 15 against teams who are struggling round the relegation zone. Its not struggling to beat a top of the league Leicester, or Stoke, or Watford, usually small teams in the top half of the table.

We're struggling to beat teams who are getting battered by others. Newcastle had failed to win 4 games and couldn't score to save their lives. We let them put three past us.

But it's not just one game. It's two months now of struggling. It goes way beyond facing stronger teams, because we've had an incredibly "easy" run facing teams who were in worse form than us, and can't get wins at all.

We can't keep taking one game, ignoring all others, and making excuses. A league is based accross 40 games, and we're halfway through now, with only 9 wins, and slipping further down the table with each game.

Off the back of one game, you can't nessecarily blame LVG, but he's not able to address or fix the rot thats set in big time. He's failing at his job, not based on a single game, but on the entire season so far.

Not to single your post out but to be open and honest here and again IMO

Firstly nobody has given anybody any credit to Newcastle here as they have played well now for 6+ games and have given everybody a go and to say it's simply down to relegation fodder and we should be easily hammering them is a blind eyed way of looking at the status of the English league in general.

Its overly negative from fans who just wholeheartedly want LVG out regardless of any honest judgement of tonight's performance.

What was asked for was improvement in attack which we got. (We also got this against Chelsea & in the 2-1 win prior to the FA Cup match)

What was asked for was that Utd should take risks and in turn we created more but we also in return became more vulnerable which is understandable with risk taking. We missed huge chances when it comes down to it. Nothing LVG can do about that

LVG also got his team selection correct, with most importantly Morgan as DM allowing Herrera more freedom as CM.

For all the hate LVG got for taking off Lindgaard IMO he was right. Felanni actually made some crucial defensive interceptions at the latter end of the match and considering Lindgaard fluffed a golden opportunity he was rightly pissed off. Depay created the opportunity in attack which Rooney capitalised on. Again LVG took a risk in attack and also showed some faith in the young lad.

Another note:

Scale back your expectancy because at the end of the day this team isn't that good on paper regardless of who is in charge. It's still in transition IMO and we are still a few players off challenging for the title again. Lads for too long have won all around you and have been spoilt.

Man up and have some patience.

Juan8

keeponhurling wrote: »

Darmian was pretty poor tonight, for supposedly a specialist full back

If we're being honest bar his first couple of games he's been a massive flop

adox

bangkok wrote: »

lol at what?

we are showing relegation form, out of the top 4, out of the league cup, out of the champions league, barely scraped through to fa cup 4th round, playing crap and will do very well now to finish in the top 4

You said maybe Van Gaals last game on Sunday and I said not a hope. You reply with "if Liverpool win 4-0" he will, which was equally bizzare and hilarious.

I can't wait to see the back of Van Gaal at Utd, should have been gone before Christmas so there is really no point showing me his failings.

I would be delighted if he as sacked tonight, never mind the weekend but there is zero reason to believe the board will act before top 4 isn't mathematically possible, ala Moyes, never mind at the weekend because we lose to Liverpool.

It's all a bit shambolic from the club.

Strumms

keeponhurling wrote: »

Darmian was pretty poor tonight, for supposedly a specialist full back

I'd disagree... the only time he became exposed was when Lingard went off and he ended up with jack all protection from Depay, he was very good up to that. Hardly a coincidence that once Lingard went off he ended up out numbered 2 against 1 with his back to our goal several times. So much of Newcastle's attacking came down our left in the last 15 mins.

Strumms

Headshot wrote: »

yup

The likes of Depay, mata or Martial should of been subbed. It would of been hard for Depay but I would subbed him because all the damage was coming down his side

Depay and Mata were subs ! We would have had no subs left ! :eek:

Hococop

I'm curious first time in ages we see lvg show emotion and actually get off the bench, I wonder does he know himself he is close to getting fired

beno619

StringerBell wrote: »

Gone 5 at the back? Played with wing backs? Which forward would you have taken off?

Do you lay any blame at all tonight on any player at all? I thought we shut up shop too early watching it, we were running in to the corner with 10 minutes left. Thats a long time to be arsing around. Shutting up shop wasn't the issue. Mental fragility seems to be a pretty big one however.

Getting a defender on and putting men behind the ball is bread and butter.

Jesse and Fellaini should have done better but this is a Newcastle side that had lost 4 on the bounce.

This isn't a freak result , this is United under LVG.

adox

Hococop wrote: »

I'm curious first time in ages we see lvg show emotion and actually get off the bench, I wonder does he know himself he is close to getting fired

That thought actually crossed my mind(although I don't believe it). It was certainly out of character for him as a manager.

beno619

StringerBell wrote: »

You could have just quoted Pro.f you know, didn't even give him a credit

Surprisingly enough, not everyone is blind to what's right in front of them.

bucketybuck

RVN10 wrote: »

Like I am being honest here lads , we need to take our heads out of arses... We are a complete and utter f'ing shambles.. LVG clearly cant motivate that team

Its amazing how many people can't see it. Forget tonight, one result doesn't matter much either way, the bigger picture is that Van Gaal simply has never gotten that team playing and its very ****ing clear that he isn't going to.

He isn't going to because he doesn't know how to, he does not know how to turn it around. He can shuffle the pieces around all he wants, he can put Martial left or right, Rooney up top or deep, Blind in the middle or on the left, he can try whatever the hell he wants and it isn't making a blind bit of difference. He has failed, its as clear as day that he has failed, nothing in the next four months is going to change that fact. Sometimes a manager fits a club and then other times it just doesn't work out, Van Gaal has experienced both sides before and its pretty ****ing clear which side he is on this time.

Crimson King

His reaction to Jessie's miss was special. He knew depay would have buried it, even with no confidence

beno619

StringerBell wrote: »

How many people called for it in the match thread do you know?

Don't do match threads, you tell me ?

nullzero

I think tonight may well be the point where we truly become another club that used to be successful. This is looking likely to be the level we are going to be at for the next few years at least. Replacing Ferguson was always going to be tough but the clubs management have conspired to make it as difficult as possible. Realistically were we organized on the most basic level we could be making a push for the title in this Topsy turvy season, instead we look destined to finish well outside the top four.

adox

I thought the two subs totally unbalanced what had been a very effective attacking threat in the first half and also totally unbalanced Utds left.

Whatever about Lingaards miss, he got up and down the pitch great and offered defensive cover to Darmien. When Memphis came on he still offered a threat going forward but offered zero defensive cover. Bringing Mata on moved Martial inside with Mata playing form the right and all of a sudden that pacy counter attacking threat was gone from one side with a totally exposed left hand side.

Also thought it was poor form Van Gaal taking Jesse off after the miss.

Liam McPoyle

Hococop wrote: »

I'm curious first time in ages we see lvg show emotion and actually get off the bench, I wonder does he know himself he is close to getting fired

Thought the same myself funnily enough.

No matter how topsy turvy the league has been a team with the money spent that we have spent should be beating teams that are in a relegation dog fight.

Failure to win on Sunday and I think he will be gone.

beno619

Headshot wrote: »

yup

The likes of Depay, mata or Martial should of been subbed. It would of been hard for Depay but I would subbed him because all the damage was coming down his side

Your wasting your time tbh, with argue about anything to defend poor Louis.

bucketybuck

Hococop wrote: »

I'm curious first time in ages we see lvg show emotion and actually get off the bench, I wonder does he know himself he is close to getting fired

With all of Van Gaals experience at the world biggest clubs, I suspect that were you to speak to him privately and honestly, he would be very surprised himself that he has not been sacked yet, he will know full well that his record at United would have seen him sacked long ago at a Barcelona or Bayern Munich.

beno619

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Scale back your expectancy because at the end of the day this team isn't that good on paper regardless of who is in charge. It's still in transition IMO and we are still a few players off challenging for the title again. Lads for too long have won all around you and have been spoilt.

Man up and have some patience.

And there it is, we've gone full circle.

"The players arnt good enough."

Moyes mark 2.

beno619

beno619 wrote: »

And there it is, we've gone full circle.

"The players arnt good enough."

Moyes mark 2.

K that's what you leave it down to

Well debated there

sigmundv

nullzero wrote:

I think tonight may well be the point where we truly become another club that used to be successful. This is looking likely to be the level we are going to be at for the next few years at least. Replacing Ferguson was always going to be tough but the clubs management have conspired to make it as difficult as possible. Realistically were we organized on the most basic level we could be making a push for the title in this Topsy turvy season, instead we look destined to finish well outside the top four.

Absolutely. The club was not geared in any way to a change of manager. It has become increasingly clear that the club was Ferguson - and Ferguson was the club - and once you took him out of the equation there was nothing left for the club to continue winning.

beno619

adox wrote: »

Whatever about Lingaards miss, he got up and down the pitch great and offered defensive cover to Darmien. When Memphis came on he still offered a threat going forward but offered zero defensive cover. Bringing Mata on moved Martial inside with Mata playing form the right and all of a sudden that pacy counter attacking threat was gone from one side with a totally exposed left hand side.

Didn't mind the Jesse substitution myself but the reshuffle on the right was totally unnecessary.

adox

M!Ck^ wrote: »

K that's what you leave it down to

Well debated there

But if you think the players aren't good enough then that's Van Gaals fault. This is the team/ squad he has built. He's ditched most of Fergusons squad and spent major money on his own.

If the players aren't good enough then Van Gaal has been a huge failure.

bucketybuck

M!Ck^ wrote: »

K that's what you leave it down to

Well debated there

What is there to debate?

The worst thing about what Moyes and Van Gaal have done is the number of fans falling over themselves to lower expectations, as if that makes them better fans or something. Your whole post amounted to a small time "we need to accept that we aren't good enough" mentality and its a load of tosh in my opinion.

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

What is there to debate?

The worst thing about what Moyes and Van Gaal have done is the number of fans falling over themselves to lower expectations, as if that makes them better fans or something. Your whole post amounted to a small time "we need to accept that we aren't good enough" mentality and its a load of tosh in my opinion.

adox wrote: »

But if you think the players aren't good enough then that's Van Gaals fault. This is the team/ squad he has built. He's ditched most of Fergusons squad and spent major money on his own.

If the players aren't good enough then Van Gaal has been a huge failure.

beno619 wrote: »

And there it is, we've gone full circle.

"The players arnt good enough."

Moyes mark 2.

Here's what I said

"this team isn't that good on paper regardless"

Here is what Beno said "The players arnt good enough."