Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 Mod Note Post #2331

beno619

M!Ck^ wrote: »

K that's what you leave it down to

Well debated there

There's not much to debate, you've spent most of the season defending his squad management and are now conceding the sqaud isn't good enough.

18 month's and decent bit of money spent and your calling people spoilt becuase they're not blind.

Ultimately this end's the same way Moyes did.

bucketybuck

sigmundv wrote: »

Absolutely. The club was not geared in any way to a change of manager. It has become increasingly clear that the club was Ferguson - and Ferguson was the club - and once you took him out of the equation there was nothing left for the club to continue winning.

No. Stop complicating a simple game.

Take Ferguson away and we were left with a squad that 99% of managers on the planet would kill to have available, the mismanagement since has nothing to do with Fergie or his structures. Van Gaal was given a lot of very good players and then spent £250m on more, we could be playing out of a peat bog and changing in the toilets and still should be expecting more from our players than we have been getting.

sigmundv

bucketybuck wrote:

Utter rubbish. Stop complicating a simple game.

If anything I'm simplifying a complicated game. Whatever you want to say about the squad, United as a club was not geared towards a seamless transition from Ferguson to another manager - hence the mess we see now.

Liam O

bucketybuck wrote: »

No. Stop complicating a simple game.

Take Ferguson away and we were left with a squad that 99% of managers on the planet would kill to have available, the mismanagement since has nothing to do with Fergie or his structures. Van Gaal was given a lot of very good players and then spent £250m on more, we could be playing out of a peat bog and changing in the toilets and still should be expecting more from our players than we have been getting.

I think if 2 and a half years has proven anything is that the squad left to them wasn't really up to much, the changeover was handled awfully and as a result, Moyes and LVG froze out players who were able to contribute and continued to play the likes of Valencia and Young because they were solid and their athleticism made an instant impact in training. Serviceable players put above players capable of changing a game purely based on outside opinions bar maybe Giggs who obviously is a horrible judge of player. The likes of Welbeck, Nani, Kagawa and a couple more in this squad would immediately improve all the deficiencies.

Ultimately nobody is blameless but nobody is blame free either. All we can do is hope it turns around.

deaddonkey15

adox wrote: »

Whatever you think of Fellainis performance tonight, the constant name calling on here is pathetic.

I was torn apart on here for making that point after someone called Rooney a "useless sack of sh!te"or something to that end a few months back. The amount of thanks your post received really highlights how it's one rule for Rooney and another for the rest on here. Not many giving him credit for his performance tonight, but there would be plenty of flak if he missed the sitter that fell to Fellaini.

Leroy42

Looks like Utds failure to move on LVG after the woeful displays coming up to Christmas, when even he expected (it appeared at least in his interview) to be fired was another massive mistake.

Getting Jose in then (or any competent manager) could have seen us get a bounce and possibly all wins for a further 10 points. Remember it was Norwich, Stoke, a terrible and ripe for picking Chelsea and Newcastle out of which we have managed 2 points.

Woodward may well be a genius when it comes to making business deals but he has shown himself to be out of his depth in top class football.

LVG needs to go, he hasn't got a clue. It really came to a head after Norwich and we had to endure the clusterf&&k that was Stoke and instead of leading a charge back LVG had managed a win against Swansea and Sheffield United and now a draw against the mighty Newcastle. He has shown nothing in the last 18 months to point that he has any idea how to get this team better and when he was under the clearest pressure has failed to deliver.

Others may continue to support him out of some misplaced loyalty, but this is his team, his tactics, his training, his signings. No other manager would be given this amount of time and resources and except such mediocre results.

So stick with him if you want, but do so in the knowledge that all you are doing is allowing your club to go the same way that Liverpool did years ago.

Flint Fredstone

adox wrote: »

Also thought it was poor form Van Gaal taking Jesse off after the miss.

I was expecting that change. Lingard could be a handy little player for us but he needs to hit the gym hard. He was being brushed aside by that Newcastle defence with too much ease, looked so weak at times.

adox

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

I was expecting that change. Lingard could be a handy little player for us but he needs to hit the gym hard. He was being brushed aside by that Newcastle defence with too much ease, looked so weak at times.

Maybe so, but it looked to me like he took him off because of that miss and that doesn't sit well with me. Maybe he was going to take him off anyway, who knows.

I get what you are saying about his physique and all but at least he could be relied upon to contribute to his defensive duties. Look at Memphis when he came on. All the physique in the world but didn't bother his arse trying to defend.

I do feel I'm picking a bit on Memphis tonight, I have high hopes for him and he has talent, but I get the feeling he thinks he is better than he is. The team can't carry a player that isn't going to defend unless they are something very very special and he as yet isn't.

posturingpat

posturingpat wrote: »

Good to see it's all Fellainis fault once more even though he probably won more ball than any other Utd player :rolleyes:

While still managing to defend deep and get into the oppositions box for crosses, I find it frustrating watching refs give everything against him foul wise but never giving him a free kick for similar or worse things..

StringerBell

StringerBell wrote: »

He did shut up shop.

Which player from the bench did you want on and for who?

They should have seen that out no problem, mental fragility and stupidity. Bottlers. That is all I have to say about them tonight. Bottlers.

I was very frustrated with the players tonight, so many individual errors in terms of missing chances, easy passes going astray, defencive switch offs all so frustrating.

Leroy42

Ah come on guys. Whilst some of the criticism on here is a bit much, Fellaini is not, and never will be, a true Utd level player.

Remember all the stick that TCleverly got, do you really reckon Fellaini is much better? If you guys are down to argueing about whether Fellaini is really crap or just crap, whilstwe have to watch Ozil, Sanchez, Messi, Ronaldo etc etc play for other clubs.

The guy is simply not goo enough. He doesn't deserve the abuse he gets on here, he didn't choose the price tag or that he gets picked, but neither should we kid ourselves that he is in anyway a decent player.

In relation to the ref, if he thinks he is being unfairly treated then it is up to him, as a professional, to work on his game to adapt, rather than simply blaming them. Fair enough, one or two games any player can seem to be able to do nothing right, but every game he is walking a tighrope. It can't all be a conspiracy against him

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

fellaini is trending on twitter, lots and lots of United fans not happy one bit.

sickening.

should have been 4-2. game over keep the ball last few minutes, 3 points everyone happy and then onto liverpool. Now we and LVG under huge pressure, maybe his last game this sunday

Peope on Twitter are mainly idiots... Probably lapped up Savages wierd agenda against Fellaini nothing and can't offer up an opinion on the matter themselves.

Robbie savage was an absolute disgrace tonight went for the easy targets constantly, Fellaini, Lvg, Depay. Just soundbite after soundbite for guys who are already getting **** in the english media. You'd think as a ex pro footballer he would be able to have some balance and empthay to the situation but he is just a classless and clueless individual.

If I said what I really thought about him and your patethic attempts to "prove you were right all along about fellaini" I'd do a fair stint away from this forum.

At the end of the day i'm comparing you to savage and saying your worse, words you should seriously think about.

PhlegmyMoses

The one ****ing game where the attack gets its **** together is when Chris Smalling decides to have a ****ing howler. Comical.

Hank Scorpio

In fairness, Fellaini is arse. Even as a "big" man he get's shoveled off the ball far too easily which results in constant fouls and his heading ability for someone of his size isn't up to scratch. That's before you get onto his dribbling and passing. What does he add to the midfield? It's not his fault for joining the club or that the price tag was so high, the fault lies with the previous management. He needs to be sold at the end of the season.

Liam O

Leroy42 wrote: »

Ah come on guys. Whilst some of the criticism on here is a bit much, Fellaini is not, and never will be, a true Utd level player.

Remember all the stick that TCleverly got, do you really reckon Fellaini is much better? If you guys are down to argueing about whether Fellaini is really crap or just crap, whilstwe have to watch Ozil, Sanchez, Messi, Ronaldo etc etc play for other clubs.

You know I never thought of it like that, I'm sure those Belgian lads think similar when he plays instead of Hazard and De Bruyne for them too. :rolleyes:

PhlegmyMoses

And just on Fellaini, he is a squad option. Scapegoating him for being himself is ridiculous. If we are relying on him to be our match winner after hundreds of millions spent, we have far bigger problems.

He is also a good example to use when people start suggesting certain types of players, most recently I saw a few in here coveting the Stoke attack after they gave us a spanking. He was excellent for Everton but never good enough to step to the big leagues.

Liam O

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

In fairness, Fellaini is arse. Even as a "big" man he get's shoveled off the ball far too easily which results in constant fouls and his heading ability for someone of his size isn't up to scratch. That's before you get onto his dribbling and passing. What does he add to the midfield? It's not his fault for joining the club or that the price tag was so high, the fault lies with the previous management. He needs to be sold at the end of the season.

Seriously? Did people just refuse to acknowledge his brilliant control of high balls and tackling? The fact he is getting into the positions to score is really impressive for the position that he has been playing in recent games. He has shown that he can score those chances before, it seems that in a period where Martial, Depay etc have one goal in however many games it's the CM rotation option who is taking the flak for not scoring every week. It's honestly bonkers! He was probably United's 2nd best player in the 2nd half when everything was falling apart too.

The_Kew_Tour

Rooney missed chances to win games this season, as has Martial, Smalling, Mata, Herrera and Memphis.

But how come when Fellaini misses a chance it's like he first man in history to miss a chance?

I'm convinced it has be something more then not liking a player at this stage.

PhlegmyMoses

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Rooney missed chances to win games this season, as has Martial, Smalling, Mata, Herrera and Memphis.

But how come when Fellaini misses a chance it's like he first man in history to miss a chance?

I'm convinced it has be something more then not liking a player at this stage.

It's because he's a bit ungainly and stands out on the pitch. He is also the human representation of our biggest failure of a season in 25 years.

It's all a bit ridiculous though. He is a decent squad option and would be fairly down the list of people who I would replace in that squad.

So much of Robbie Savages commentary being rehashed in here its worse than any flashbacks after a bad trip.

adox

adox wrote: »

But if you think the players aren't good enough then that's Van Gaals fault. This is the team/ squad he has built. He's ditched most of Fergusons squad and spent major money on his own.

If the players aren't good enough then Van Gaal has been a huge failure.

List of players that would make the first team in our current squad that he got rid of?

Give you a hint if you say chico I disagree

deaddonkey15

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

I was torn apart on here for making that point after someone called Rooney a "useless sack of sh!te"or something to that end a few months back. The amount of thanks your post received really highlights how it's one rule for Rooney and another for the rest on here. Not many giving him credit for his performance tonight, but there would be plenty of flak if he missed the sitter that fell to Fellaini.

Your constant defence of Rooney after every game is as bad as Bangkoks constant critism of Fellaini.. Lacks any rantional thinking and is just serving whatever agendas ye seemingly have.

In case you twist this not saying Ronney was bad tonight..

adox

adox wrote: »

Maybe so, but it looked to me like he took him off because of that miss and that doesn't sit well with me. Maybe he was going to take him off anyway, who knows.

dont mean to be bad but thats what Robbie Savage was making out and then went out of his way to point out that Depay wasn't contributing down the left even though I think he did he just cant defend very well.

Lingard didnt have a great game and it looked like the sub to make regaurdless of the miss or not.

****************************
Finally caught up on the thread, glass of wine reading turned into a near bottle apologies for the spam.

fatherted1969

I'll be astonished if we even qualify for the Europa league based on what I've seen in the past 7 or 8 weeks. There's nothing there to suggest we're going to put any sort of a run together. We'll do nothing other than limp to the end of the season. The time to do something was weeks ago

Hank Scorpio

Liam O wrote: »

Seriously? Did people just refuse to acknowledge his brilliant control of high balls and tackling? The fact he is getting into the positions to score is really impressive for the position that he has been playing in recent games. He has shown that he can score those chances before, it seems that in a period where Martial, Depay etc have one goal in however many games it's the CM rotation option who is taking the flak for not scoring every week. It's honestly bonkers! He was probably United's 2nd best player in the 2nd half when everything was falling apart too.

If Fellaini is the bar it's not surprising the table looks the way it does. I don't rate him at all, I`ll never change my opinion that if people like him are starting we`ll never challenge for the league. With the ball at his feet he's one of the worst I've ever seen at the club. Last season he did score a few important goals, this season he has 2. His first season he had none. It's hardly a great return given he's been pumped up front on many occasions. I'm not trying to make him a scapegoat either, he's not the only one who's not up to scratch.

Just to add, I know stats aren't indicative of individual performances and shouldn't be taken too seriously but the below tweet is interesting.

https://twitter.com/UnitedNewsID/status/687035539711655937?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

RobertKK

I am glad I watched celebrity Big Brother after the game, had to be one of the funniest TV moments after Angie Bowie was told her ex husband was dead.
Took my mind off the result of the game...

Bret Hart

fatherted1969 wrote: »

I'll be astonished if we even qualify for the Europa league based on what I've seen in the past 7 or 8 weeks. There's nothing there to suggest we're going to put any sort of a run together. We'll do nothing other than limp to the end of the season. The time to do something was weeks ago

Don't be silly we'll end up in a Europa League spot at worst. I don't think we'll finish any lower then 5th.

Our best chance now to qualify for the CL is too do a Liverpool or Chelsea and fluke our way into the CL next season by winning the Europa League. Either way would leave me satisfied.

Swansea game 2-1 when Fellaini came on (score when on the pitch 0-0) 11 mins

Liverpool game 3-1 win ) Felaini 90 mins

Arsenal game 3-0 when Fellaini came on (score when on the pitch 0-0) 45 mins

Everton game 3-0(us)when Fellaini came on (score when on the pitch 0-0)10mins

Man City game 0-0 when Felaini came on (score when on pitch 0-0) 16 mins

Crystal Palace 0-0 when Fellaini came on (score when on pitch 0-0) 22 mins

West Ham 0-0 Fellaini 90 mins

Bouremouth 2-1 Fellaini 74 mins (scored a goal)

Norwich 2-1 ( Fellaini starts comes off 2-0 down) we score 1 after 60 mins

Stoke 2-0 (Fellaini played 90 mins)

Newcastle 3-3 (Fellaini plays 90 mins)

Game results that involved Fellaini

10 points (W2 D4 L5)

Results of games if only Fellainis involment counted

10 points (W1 D7 L 3)

If someone want to do a points per minute on them go right ahead..

Rubber_Soul

RobertKK wrote: »

I am glad I watched celebrity Big Brother after the game, had to be one of the funniest TV moments after Angie Bowie was told her ex husband was dead.
Took my mind off the result of the game...

Wtf

killwill

RobertKK wrote: »

I am glad I watched celebrity Big Brother after the game, had to be one of the funniest TV moments after Angie Bowie was told her ex husband was dead.
Took my mind off the result of the game...

What was funny about that???

killwill

killwill wrote: »

What was funny about that???

http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/tiffany-pollard-becomes-hysterical-after-7167319

Vic Vinegar

Who gives a crap... Big Brother is an awful show.

Giggsy11

First time in months enjoyed United game, shame in the same game Smalling and Schneiderlin had an off day. Should have won the game. Lingard and Fellaini should have scored those 2 very easy chances. No excuse for missing them. Liked Depay when he came on, committed players and created excellent chance. His play was very important for 3rd goal too.

Van Gaal ****ed it up with Fellaini. Everyone knew he would have got second yellow card for any foul so he didn't even challenge for any ball but Van Gaal was ok with it. Awful decision.

Also with Lingard we are better team. His movement is excellent so he gets into many goal scoring positions. Rooney had his best game in probably 2 years.

adox

Deleted User wrote: »

dont mean to be bad but thats what Robbie Savage was making out and then went out of his way to point out that Depay wasn't contributing down the left even though I think he did he just cant defend very well.

Lingard didnt have a great game and it looked like the sub to make regaurdless of the miss or not.

****************************
Finally caught up on the thread, glass of wine reading turned into a near bottle apologies for the spam.

Couldn't give a **** what Savage said, i was giving my opinion on what I thought at the time.

Call it spam or whatever the **** you want in your usual poorly attempted humour.

adox

Deleted User wrote: »

List of players that would make the first team in our current squad that he got rid of?

Give you a hint if you say chico I disagree

Well done for completely missing the point of the post.


Also if you are going to post "I'll give you a hint" ****e don't expect any discussion from me.

IrishIrish

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Van Gaal ****ed it up with Fellaini. Everyone knew he would have got second yellow card for any foul so he didn't even challenge for any ball but Van Gaal was ok with it. Awful decision.

I thought Fellaini would have definitely been taken off at Ht. But in the second half there was at least 3 or 4 times he made a good tackle when I had feared he was going to be sent off. So to say he didn't challenge for any balls in second half is just wrong and looking for more reasons to criticise him.

He made clumsy fouls in first 30 mins. The one he got a yellow for wasn't even a foul. He missed a big chance and gave the ball away a few times. He also won the ball plenty, won the Peno, got in to good positions and cleared the ball from our box numerous times.

I think Fellaini will probably be sold in the summer and I wouldn't be a big fan either way. But he wasn't anywhere near the worst performers last night and people are going out of their way to try give out about him. Probably because Rooney had a very good game so Fellaini is next on the list.

Giggsy11

IrishIrish wrote: »

I thought Fellaini would have definitely been taken off at Ht. But in the second half there was at least 3 or 4 times he made a good tackle when I had feared he was going to be sent off. So to say he didn't challenge for any balls in second half is just wrong and looking for more reasons to criticise him.

He made clumsy fouls in first 30 mins. The one he got a yellow for wasn't even a foul. He missed a big chance and gave the ball away a few times. He also won the ball plenty, won the Peno, got in to good positions and cleared the ball from our box numerous times.

I think Fellaini will probably be sold in the summer and I wouldn't be a big fan either way. But he wasn't anywhere near the worst performers last night and people are going out of their way to try give out about him. Probably because Rooney had a very good game so Fellaini is next on the list.

Not sure what's your point. I said Fellaini should have been subbed off as he was on yellow and he didn't challenge for any ball in the second half. He won few in the last few mins but at the start of the second half he pulled away from all the tackles and far from his usual self.

I didn't even criticize Fellaini, so I don't know why you are so defensive about Fellaini inreply to my post.

Also IIRC Fellaini attempted and won only 1 tackle in the second half and that was near LB position. I can prove it by posting few stats if you need. So Fellaini didn't go for tackles in the second half is correct.

Trigger

[Deleted User] wrote: »

List of players that would make the first team in our current squad that he got rid of?

Give you a hint if you say chico I disagree

You could list a hell of a lot of players that were gotten rid of that would have had a place on the bench last night, that could come on and make a difference. The squad is threadbare and the only person to blame for that is the manager.

Giggsy11

Deleted User wrote: »

List of players that would make the first team in our current squad that he got rid of?

Give you a hint if you say chico I disagree

Nani and Hernandez were obvious choices. Nani is lot better that Mata as Right winger.

Rafael as right back instead of Young or any player out of position.

fatherted1969

Bret Hart wrote: »

Don't be silly we'll end up in a Europa League spot at worst. I don't think we'll finish any lower then 5th.

Our best chance now to qualify for the CL is too do a Liverpool or Chelsea and fluke our way into the CL next season by winning the Europa League. Either way would leave me satisfied.

There's nothing I'm seeing now to suggest we're going to finish ahead of Spurs West Ham Liverpool Southampton Crystal Palace. Maybe one or two of them but my point remains the same. I wouldn't be getting cocky with even Europa qualification with what I'm seeing. It's a dour unable to score performance which may scrape a point or when we do try to play a little more expansively we cannot defend. Not sure how we'll turn that around but I hope you're right

bangkok

Deleted User wrote: »

Your constant defence of Rooney after every game is as bad as Bangkoks constant critism of Fellaini.. Lacks any rantional thinking and is just serving whatever agendas ye seemingly have.

In case you twist this not saying Ronney was bad tonight..

honestly, if fellaini was playing well I would have no reason to criticise him, but he is not. He has been terrible. A few good games last season is all he has had in a United shirt, the rest has been forgetful.

He is as bad now as he was in his first season when he signed.

thebigredone

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Rooney missed chances to win games this season, as has Martial, Smalling, Mata, Herrera and Memphis.

But how come when Fellaini misses a chance it's like he first man in history to miss a chance?

I'm convinced it has be something more then not liking a player at this stage.

It's because he's a bit ungainly and stands out on the pitch. He is also the human representation of our biggest failure of a season in 25 years.

It's all a bit ridiculous though. He is a decent squad option and would be fairly down the list of people who I would replace in that squad.

Maybe it is a bit easy to single out Fellaini, I'd have to agree with the point about him being "the human representation" of United's down-turn. That's football though, there's no hiding place on the pitch. If he's not good enough, he's not good enough, simple as that!

I'll take the opportunity to defend Memphis here too. Criticising an out and out attacking winger/forward for not defending enough is like criticising a goalkeeper for not scoring enough goals. When that player's also 21 and in his first premier league season it even more ridiculous. The defensive problems have been down to luck with injuries and not replacing players, losing two left full options, midfielder at centre half, winger at right back and a right back at left. Awful luck with injuries, but if we had a decent midfield we might be able to cope a bit better. We have two injury prone midfielderso the wrong side of 30, Schneiderlin, who hasn't been the player I was expecting and Fellaini. That midfield won't cut it.

homerjay2005

mixed feelings on that result - on one hand its a complete disaster as yet again, we have dropped points against the bottom teams, thats 15 points now so far this season.

on the other, it would be hypocritical to slam the performance as all season we have wanted attacking football and we finally got it, it was a great game to watch and first time ive not been bored to tears in a long time.

i think once and for all, we can dismiss this myth that "LVG has sorted the defence" and "we are excellent at the back".

we all give out (and rightly so) about the fact he plays 2 defensive midfielders and i think it is clear why - when we dont have them, our defence is shown up for what it is, a complete shambles. we are missing Shaw, but apart from that we are very poor. Smalling had his worst game of the season and that didnt help but collectively we are all over the place when a team attacks us. failure to sign a top class center back in the last 2 years is really killing us.

so ya, great to see attacking football, really good game and some positives, but terrible result, again.

in saying that, if we beat Liverpool sunday, i guess 4 points isnt a bad return assuming that Leceister drop points.

Giggsy11

homerjay2005 wrote: »

mixed feelings on that result - on one hand its a complete disaster as yet again, we have dropped points against the bottom teams, thats 15 points now so far this season.

on the other, it would be hypocritical to slam the performance as all season we have wanted attacking football and we finally got it, it was a great game to watch and first time ive not been bored to tears in a long time.

i think once and for all, we can dismiss this myth that "LVG has sorted the defence" and "we are excellent at the back".

we all give out (and rightly so) about the fact he plays 2 defensive midfielders and i think it is clear why - when we dont have them, our defence is shown up for what it is, a complete shambles. we are missing Shaw, but apart from that we are very poor. Smalling had his worst game of the season and that didnt help but collectively we are all over the place when a team attacks us. failure to sign a top class center back in the last 2 years is really killing us.

so ya, great to see attacking football, really good game and some positives, but terrible result, again.

in saying that, if we beat Liverpool sunday, i guess 4 points isnt a bad return assuming that Leceister drop points.

If we use one game to judge any defense, then there isn't a team which has good defense.

Yesterday Schneiderlin and Smalling had off day and it was disaster as they had on the same day.

jayo26

Giggsy11 wrote: »

If we use one game to judge any defense, then there isn't a team which has good defense.

Yesterday Schneiderlin and Smalling had off day and it was disaster as they had on the same day.

True but we have conceded 13 goals in past 8 games and kept 2 clean sheets thats judging it over 8 games.

Liverpool game the weekend is massive for us for a Variety of reasons if they win tonight. They could end up ahead of us and back in the hunt for champs league and us more or less out of it or visa versa.

Lord TSC

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Firstly nobody has given anybody any credit to Newcastle here as they have played well now for 6+ games and have given everybody a go and to say it's simply down to relegation fodder and we should be easily hammering them is a blind eyed way of looking at the status of the English league in general.

Its overly negative from fans who just wholeheartedly want LVG out regardless of any honest judgement of tonight's performance.

What was asked for was improvement in attack which we got. (We also got this against Chelsea & in the 2-1 win prior to the FA Cup match)

Few points here:

Again, trying to turn this into an argument just on the merits of how one team (Newcastle) did doesn't do anything but paper over the problems. Credit to Newcastle, they did exactly what other bottom half table teams have been doing against us; taking points and letting us make them look way better than they are.

But after spending the money LVG has, at a club the size of United, I'd expect more than 5 points in 15 against teams ranked 14th - 18th. Again, not just one game here; its our entire horrid run of form that see us with constantly struggling against inferior teams.

If you go back and look at my opinions of the Chelsea and Swansea game, you'll notice that I'd disagree to a large extent with the idea that they were improvements; we struggled to a 0-0 draw against a Chelsea side who could have as easily won as we could, and struggled to a 2-1 win over a Swansea hovering over relegation.

The jist seems to be that it's "Overly negative" to expect more than 1 win against 5 teams hovering round the relegation zone. Has the club really fallen so far that people are expected to be positive about such results?

What was asked for was that Utd should take risks and in turn we created more but we also in return became more vulnerable which is understandable with risk taking. We missed huge chances when it comes down to it. Nothing LVG can do about that

LVG also got his team selection correct, with most importantly Morgan as DM allowing Herrera more freedom as CM.

For all the hate LVG got for taking off Lindgaard IMO he was right. Felanni actually made some crucial defensive interceptions at the latter end of the match and considering Lindgaard fluffed a golden opportunity he was rightly pissed off. Depay created the opportunity in attack which Rooney capitalised on. Again LVG took a risk in attack and also showed some faith in the young lad.

For what its worth, I'd agree LVG got the team more or less bang on, and I rarely have criticized his subs, in spite of it being something that is typically held against him by others.

But again, you're trying to focus the entire discussion down to his role as manager in a single match, in an attempt to ignore his abilities over the wider spectrum.

At the begining of the year, I think most would have agreed our ambitions for the year was...

Challenge for the title - We're in 6th, after the "easiest" run of games we'll have all season, and only moving one way. People are quickly trying to drop expectations now to "Top 4" now its more and more obvious the team is failing on this front.

Reach the Knockout Stages of the CL - Again, we were presented with a relatively easy group (key word: relatively), and we got bundled out.

A "Good Cup Run" in the FA Cup - "A good cup run" will be subjective, but I wouldn't be massively hopeful given we struggled to overcome a team two leagues lower than us and relied on a Fergie Time penalty to get past them.

A "Good cup run" in the Carling Cup - Knocked out to another significantly inferior team in Middlesbough when we couldn't get a goal past them. Still, I can accept the cup's prestige is near naught for a team like United.

Taking individual games, excuses can be made, but the reality is that LVG is failing at all the goals set for him at the beginning of the season, and his few remaining supporters are scrambling to retroactively change what was expected of him.

Which leads too....

Another note:

Scale back your expectancy because at the end of the day this team isn't that good on paper regardless of who is in charge. It's still in transition IMO and we are still a few players off challenging for the title again. Lads for too long have won all around you and have been spoilt.

Man up and have some patience.

That was a semi-valid excuse when Moyes was in charge; by and large, he didnt build his own team, but inherited one, and barely added to it.

But LVG has spent how much money and has had 18 months now. If you're going to say the team isn't good enough on paper, that he has spent that much money to completely rebuild and reshape the team in his vision, well then it's on his head that they aren't "that good on paper regardless of who is in charge".

It's a small team mentality that seems to exist in certain sections of the fanbase to give out that people should lower expectations and just accept things have gone poorly. For all the United brand is a global one, the biggest on the planet, we seem to, mentally, want to act like we're fans of a lower level team, out of some misguided ideology that it makes our team "better" than others, and our fans "better" than others.

Success isn't a god given right to any team, and any team that expects it just to happen will slip down the league quickly, especially as it becomes one thats more difficult to play in, as you said. For all the difficulty is increasing, United should be playing as if cheat codes are on. With the money spent, we should be hammering even the odd team in the relegation zone, not trying to praise 1 win in 5 (which was a less than spectacular 2-1 over a very poor Swansea).

We scaled back expectancy when Moyes came in, and it meant that LVG was given a very easy goal last year; a goal he nearly missed. He was asked again this year to simply build on last years results and just challenge for the title. We're 6th at the half way point, and struggling.

Excuses, really, can only go so far, and it reaches a point where you have to say no other top tier team would have let him keep his job after the 8 game run without a win. At any other one of the world's elite clubs, he'd have been long gone, justifiable so as well.

homerjay2005

Giggsy11 wrote: »

If we use one game to judge any defense, then there isn't a team which has good defense.

Yesterday Schneiderlin and Smalling had off day and it was disaster as they had on the same day.

its not just one game though, weve been extremely lucky in many games this year when weve got a 0-0. or ill put it to you this way, it looks like our problems in attack are being caused by us having to compensate and protect our back 4.

Arsenal attacked us a ripped us open, Woflsburg ripped us open.

when a team comes out and attacks us, we are really really vulnerable at the back and it showed again last night. LVG spoke about team balance, it really is all over the place. when we attack, we cannot defend. when we defend, we cannot attack.

but as a said, i would rather watch us like this than the s*ite weve been watching last few months so im not as pi*sed off as everybody appears to be, its a pity we didnt hang on but thats football.

if we continue to play like that and sort out the back 4, we will have a good second half of the season.

Flint Fredstone

Have to agree with Homer here. The reason we have so many shutouts this season is more to do with what's in front of and behind the defence. Smalling has been quality no doubt, Darmian had a great start and along with Shaw looked like we had a solid back 4 but that got messed up and we have looked ropey as fùck at the back since.

The way we set up and play means the defence doesn't have too much to do but when the reins are loosened they are exposed for what they are. A winger at RB, a midfielder at CB and a RB at LB.

TheDoc

I'm in such a bad mood this morning....

Maximus Alexander

After 21 games in Moyes' season, United had 37 points and sat in 7th. 3 more points and with superior goal difference.

United flirted with 6th briefly, but basically stayed put in 7th for the rest of the season.