Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 Mod Note Post #2331

deaddonkey15

Deleted User wrote: »

Your constant defence of Rooney after every game is as bad as Bangkoks constant critism of Fellaini.. Lacks any rantional thinking and is just serving whatever agendas ye seemingly have.

In case you twist this not saying Ronney was bad tonight..

It's not after every game. And my constant defence of Rooney is mainly the "yeah he was sh!te, but so was everyone else" argument. Usually followed by "yeah but he's the captain and gets paid lots of money so he should somehow perform better than the rest" response, as if there isn't two world cup winners in our squad which is mainly made up of highly paid, professional and internationally capped players. It's interesting that you don't have much time for Bangkok's constant criticism of Fellaini yet everyone's constant criticism of Rooney is apparently no problem.

How exactly does my defending Rooney lack any rational thinking?

bangkok

http://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/video-man-united-are-so-dull-that-even-the-bbc-are-taking-the-mickey/59038

had to laugh at that video this morning :pac:

Giggsy11

homerjay2005 wrote: »

its not just one game though, weve been extremely lucky in many games this year when weve got a 0-0. or ill put it to you this way, it looks like our problems in attack are being caused by us having to compensate and protect our back 4.

Arsenal attacked us a ripped us open, Woflsburg ripped us open.

when a team comes out and attacks us, we are really really vulnerable at the back and it showed again last night. LVG spoke about team balance, it really is all over the place. when we attack, we cannot defend. when we defend, we cannot attack.

but as a said, i would rather watch us like this than the s*ite weve been watching last few months so im not as pi*sed off as everybody appears to be, its a pity we didnt hang on but thats football.

if we continue to play like that and sort out the back 4, we will have a good second half of the season.

What do you mean by lucky?

Like I said, there isn't a team that isn't ripped apart in league and in Europe. Also there isn't a team that looked solid when other team attacked them. That's the nature of the league.

Even Barca were ripped apart by Celta and Celta should have scored even more. Opposition team always create good chances and we can't say lucky when they fail to score.

Like you said, I would take this type of game over the boring half arsed games. For the first time in months I enjoyed attacking performance. Should have scored few more.

Liam O

homerjay2005 wrote: »

mixed feelings on that result - on one hand its a complete disaster as yet again, we have dropped points against the bottom teams, thats 15 points now so far this season.

on the other, it would be hypocritical to slam the performance as all season we have wanted attacking football and we finally got it, it was a great game to watch and first time ive not been bored to tears in a long time.

i think once and for all, we can dismiss this myth that "LVG has sorted the defence" and "we are excellent at the back".

we all give out (and rightly so) about the fact he plays 2 defensive midfielders and i think it is clear why - when we dont have them, our defence is shown up for what it is, a complete shambles. we are missing Shaw, but apart from that we are very poor. Smalling had his worst game of the season and that didnt help but collectively we are all over the place when a team attacks us. failure to sign a top class center back in the last 2 years is really killing us.

so ya, great to see attacking football, really good game and some positives, but terrible result, again.

in saying that, if we beat Liverpool sunday, i guess 4 points isnt a bad return assuming that Leceister drop points.

The Newcastle goals were all preventable and slightly unlucky imo. Fellaini would normally be good to head that out, it was great covering from him when he seen Blind up against Mitrovic, unlucky it went to their best player but he probably should be doing better, as should Smalling when tracking Wijnaldum.

Smalling got played again by Mitrovic who probably had as much involvement in the early stages of their wrestling match as he did but let go and made it look like it was all Smalling.

Then the last goal was ridiculously unlucky. Dummet is an awful player but he hit it well and there was very little Smalling or DDG could do to stop it.

It is worrying that that's twice now in a few weeks United have taken more risks in a forward sense and Smalling has looked at 6s and 7s but I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.

homerjay2005

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

After 21 games in Moyes' season, United had 37 points and sat in 7th. 3 more points and with superior goal difference.

United flirted with 6th briefly, but basically stayed put in 7th for the rest of the season.

at this stage under Moyes, we had 35 goals scored :eek::eek::eek:

as one of Moyes biggest critics, Liverpool and Everton had one of their best ever PL seasons that year (if not their best) and Spurs also not far behind.

when you factor in that all 3 teams were poor then last season and were severly hampered by European football, i think LVG finishing 4th was as much to do with others around us being poor as him achieving something special as some people seem to think.

we also had no European football last year, which lets be fair, does cost you points in the league.

i honestly think we would have finished 4th last season independent of LVG being manager or not, as overall we were very poor for most of the season, yet still managed to come 4th.

The_Kew_Tour

I post these "I'm not surprised" lines few times this season and sadly again

But I'm not surprised about any type of outcome anymore. We are just as likely to blow a 2 nil lead like last night these days as anything.

bangkok

so looking ahead, realistically with our best team/formation where do we need to strengthen?

IMO we should go back to 4-4-2 with the ball and 4-5-1 without it

---

de gea

---

Darmian

---

Smalling

---

New CB

---

Shaw




New RW

---

Schneiderlain

---

New CM

---

Depay

---

Martial

---

Rooney

---

Romero
Jones
Rojo
Herrera
Schweignsteiger
Mata
New Striker

Leroy42

You know, I'm beginning to think that Smalling early season 'form' was a blip rather than a new level.

Helped in large part by the ultra defensive shape in front of him.

When the pressure is on he is reverting to his previous levels. I think at the very least we should be targeting an experienced CB to partner him and if possible bring him to he next level. He is not capable (at present anyway) of leading a defense on his own.

Lucas Hood

What's the story with Carrick?

I wanna see Herrera & Schneiderlin together in midfield.

I think they'd make a great partnership.

jayo26

Lucas Hood wrote: »

What's the story with Carrick?

I wanna see Herrera & Schneiderlin together in midfield.

I think they'd make a great partnership.

I think where herrera played last night is his best position he has more freedom what we need beside Schneiderlin is a more box to box midfielder.

Matt Hummels is on?
Or it's a "Use Man Utd for better contract" Special :P

homerjay2005

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Matt Hummels is on?
Or it's a "Use Man Utd for better contract" Special :P

not until the summer i would think.

wonder would his ties to Klopp swing him towards Liverpool though?

ronjo

homerjay2005 wrote: »

not until the summer i would think.

wonder would his ties to Klopp swing him towards Liverpool though?

Might depend which one of ye make the Europa League places :pac:

bangkok

MANCHESTER UNITED'S RECORD WITH AND WITHOUT MAROUANE FELLAINI

WITH FELLANI
Swansea City 2-1 Manchester United (13mins)
Manchester United 3-1 Liverpool (90mins)
Arsenal 3-0 Manchester United (45mins)
Everton 0-3 Manchester United (9mins)
Manchester United 0-0 Man City (15mins)
Crystal Palace 0-0 Manchester United (21mins)
Manchester United 0-0 West Ham (90mins)
Bournemouth 2-1 Manchester United (74mins)
Manchester United 1-2 Norwich City (60mins)
Stoke City 2-0 Manchester United (90mins)
Newcastle 3-3 Manchester United (90mins)

Won 2, Drawn 4, Lost 5 - 0.9 points/game



WITHOUT FELLAINI
Manchester United 1-0 Tottenham
Aston Villa 0-1 Manchester United
Manchester United 0-0 Newcastle United
Southampton 2-3 Manchester United
Manchester United 3-0 Sunderland
Manchester United 2-0 West Bromwich Albion
Watford 1-2 Manchester United
Leicester City 1-1 Manchester United
Manchester United 0-0 Chelsea
Manchester United 2-1 Swansea City

Won 7, Drawn 3, Lost 0 - 2.4 points/game

Business Cat is gonna love this one ^

Headshot

The font is strong with this one

Coat22

Liam O wrote: »

It is worrying that that's twice now in a few weeks United have taken more risks in a forward sense and Smalling has looked at 6s and 7s but I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I've been saying for a while but the Emporer has no clothes - Smalling has only looked good when he's had 2 DMs playing in front of him. I think I'd fancy my chances if I had 2 of Carrick/Schweinsteiger/Schneiderlin protecting me. Take them out and you're on your own and I think his limits are being exposed.

ITs worrying because he's easily the best centre half we have but he is not the second coming the way he's been lauded over the past 6 months

homerjay2005

homerjay2005 wrote: »

not until the summer i would think.

wonder would his ties to Klopp swing him towards Liverpool though?

He has options that's for sure. Would be disappointed if this was the case.

brinty

bangkok wrote: »

MANCHESTER UNITED'S RECORD WITH AND WITHOUT MAROUANE FELLAINI

WITH FELLANI
Swansea City 2-1 Manchester United (13mins)
Manchester United 3-1 Liverpool (90mins)
Arsenal 3-0 Manchester United (45mins)
Everton 0-3 Manchester United (9mins)
Manchester United 0-0 Man City (15mins)
Crystal Palace 0-0 Manchester United (21mins)
Manchester United 0-0 West Ham (90mins)
Bournemouth 2-1 Manchester United (74mins)
Manchester United 1-2 Norwich City (60mins)
Stoke City 2-0 Manchester United (90mins)
Newcastle 3-3 Manchester United (90mins)

Won 2, Drawn 4, Lost 5 - 0.9 points/game



WITHOUT FELLAINI
Manchester United 1-0 Tottenham
Aston Villa 0-1 Manchester United
Manchester United 0-0 Newcastle United
Southampton 2-3 Manchester United
Manchester United 3-0 Sunderland
Manchester United 2-0 West Bromwich Albion
Watford 1-2 Manchester United
Leicester City 1-1 Manchester United
Manchester United 0-0 Chelsea
Manchester United 2-1 Swansea City

Won 7, Drawn 3, Lost 0 - 2.4 points/game

Now that's how you back up your talk

the fachts are undisputable....

TheDoc

What a marvelous way to be selective with stats to try force an opinion or agenda.


Sure lets include his circa 20 minute appearances in the top segment, cause that suits our agenda, rather then do proper analysis, which would return an inconclusive data set.

Absolutely sick of statistical use in football at this stage, it's at the level of moronic

RobertKK

TheDoc wrote: »

What a marvelous way to be selective with stats to try force an opinion or agenda.


Sure lets include his circa 20 minute appearances in the top segment, cause that suits our agenda, rather then do proper analysis, which would return an inconclusive data set.

Absolutely sick of statistical use in football at this stage, it's at the level of moronic

Sorry but my stats are the best ones.

Undefeated for 2016.

Polo_Mint

bangkok: can you post the Sub times in which Fellaini can on in all them games in which United lost?

bangkok

TheDoc wrote: »

What a marvelous way to be selective with stats to try force an opinion or agenda.


Sure lets include his circa 20 minute appearances in the top segment, cause that suits our agenda, rather then do proper analysis, which would return an inconclusive data set.

Absolutely sick of statistical use in football at this stage, it's at the level of moronic

I just seen it this morning. To be honest you don't really need stats to back up my point on this one.

£27m will go down as one of United's worst ever transfers

TheDoc

Coat22 wrote: »

I've been saying for a while but the Emporer has no clothes - Smalling has only looked good when he's had 2 DMs playing in front of him. I think I'd fancy my chances if I had 2 of Carrick/Schweinsteiger/Schneiderlin protecting me. Take them out and you're on your own and I think his limits are being exposed.

ITs worrying because he's easily the best centre half we have but he is not the second coming the way he's been lauded over the past 6 months

That's incredibly disingenuous and selective.

I've lost track of the amount of situations this season where Smalling has been exposed one on one and comfortably come out on top.

Blind last night had two little hiccups I can recall were the ball went past him, but there was countless occasions he intercepted possesion, or made succesfull tackles teeing us up for a break.

There is a difference between a poor/blip/bad performance, and an actual issue there.

It's abundantly evident that our centre back pairing of Blind and Smalling has been a resounding success this year. That there have been occasions where it hasn't gone well, is not reflective on the pair overall.

It's utterly infuriating how we have thrown a golden opportunity away this season. With a firing frontline and attack, we could have a comfortable lead in this league sitting at the top, so strong has our defensive play been for the majority.

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

I just seen it this morning. To be honest you don't really need stats to back up my point on this one.

£27m will go down as one of United's worst ever transfers

It was being banded around and shared last night across the internet. And it's totally moronic that people were using it to push an agenda.

You have just drawn a line under Fellaini. And it's the type of snobby elitism that sickens me from sections of the fanbase, that would paint a player "not United standard" based on selective performances, or just his style of play.Fellaini does nothing but put in 100% for me, and has rarely to never complained from what is in my view piss poor treatment he has received from fans and the manager in terms of his deployment.

When he came into the side last season and we moved to a 4-3-3, he was as important as Hererra in regards our performances improving and scored some important and nice goals To label him as one of our worst transfers also just goes to show your one dimensional view on him, that is beyond parody at this point.

If he is such a loser and waste of space, he wouldn't have kept our record signing on the bench for large portions of last season.

homerjay2005

TheDoc wrote: »

Absolutely sick of statistical use in football at this stage, it's at the level of moronic

stats, video analysis and all this malarkey are now a huge part of football, been like that for several years.

it has alot of benifits if used correctly.

adox

11 games listed as fellaini games. Only 4 of them he played the full 90.

Nalz

TheDoc wrote: »

Absolutely sick of statistical use in football at this stage, it's at the level of moronic

The modern world... the influence of USA, the internet and the global rat race

TheDoc

homerjay2005 wrote: »

stats, video analysis and all this malarkey are now a huge part of football, been like that for several years.

it has alot of benifits if used correctly.

I should have been clearer.

I despise the use of manipulative data and statistics to push an agenda, when the data itself is totally unbiased and inconclusive.

Liam McPoyle

adox wrote: »

11 games listed as fellaini games. Only 4 of them he played the full 90.

Ya but its his fault we didn't get better results because bangkok.

brinty

for a guy who supposed to be great in the air and header of the ball (and I don't think its true) Fellaini really let himself down last night missing a fairly open goal...

There's no excuses for that...

I've consistently said he was a panic buy by Moyes cos we got nothing done in the that summer, if we'd really wanted him the deal could've been done weeks before it was..

He's a square peg in a round hole...

I hope he could do better elsewhere but I don't think he's united standard

Coat22

TheDoc wrote: »

That's incredibly disingenuous and selective.

I've lost track of the amount of situations this season where Smalling has been exposed one on one and comfortably come out on top.

Blind last night had two little hiccups I can recall were the ball went past him, but there was countless occasions he intercepted possesion, or made succesfull tackles teeing us up for a break.

There is a difference between a poor/blip/bad performance, and an actual issue there.

It's abundantly evident that our centre back pairing of Blind and Smalling has been a resounding success this year. That there have been occasions where it hasn't gone well, is not reflective on the pair overall.

It's utterly infuriating how we have thrown a golden opportunity away this season. With a firing frontline and attack, we could have a comfortable lead in this league sitting at the top, so strong has our defensive play been for the majority.

I'm ot sure how I'm being selective - I think since the beginning of November, starting with the Wolfsburg game, he's been average - poor in quite a few games but is been given the benefit of the doubt due to his earlier form.

When we have set out to attack and he's not had the 2 DM cover he's looked susceptible. Certainly not pinning it all on him but as Liam O said its a worrying trend. I just don't think he's as good as the plaudits he's been getting would suggest.

TheDoc

Nalz wrote: »

The modern world... the influence of USA, the internet and the global rat race

There is a theory that football fans are getting smarter and more intelligent, then they were say, ten years ago. There is multiple explanations provided as to why.

Personally, I think, segments of fans are actually getting more stupid and ignorant about the game, and their team. Evident in the misuse of statistics, frequently.

That also ties in with general studies and research that is starting to find a trend that my generation (mid twenties) and those behind, are becoming "less intelligent". And that people are no longer forming opinions based on their own learning, research and feeling, but instead taking what they perceive as expert opinion, or the majority opinion, and twisting it into what they then perceive is their own.

I've a weird interest in that research and studies as I do believe the population is becoming increasingly less intelligent and genuinely opinionated (again multi faceted as to why). I guess it ties into football because I notice it so much in football fandom. The tell signs and developements, and why not, football plays such a large part in the fabric of society.

I'd just be clear at this point thats not directed at anyone here, or this thread in particular. And I'm not claiming to be some football hierarchy. I've held some woefully stupid opinions and believes, but I tend to be fine with changing an opinion through good arguement or debate, and I take interest as to why and how I formed, what was a terrible and moronic opinion on something.

TheDoc

Coat22 wrote: »

I'm ot sure how I'm being selective - I think since the beginning of November, starting with the Wolfsburg game, he's been average - poor in quite a few games but is been given the benefit of the doubt due to his earlier form.

When we have set out to attack and he's not had the 2 DM cover he's looked susceptible. Certainly not pinning it all on him but as Liam O said its a worrying trend. I just don't think he's as good as the plaudits he's been getting would suggest.

Sorry maybe I've mixed your post up with another I saw, but I was responding to the statement that Smalling's good form was a blip, and that he has returned to type of being all over the place.

I think that is unfair and a selective reflection on what has been some recent mishaps, as opposed to the season overall (including the improvement he made at the backend of last season also)

On the flipside, I've gone past the point of Rooney's terrible form being a bad blip, and in recent matches we are now back to type. I think this just might be the infamous Rooney purple patch that he has every season. But that will only be apparent as the months roll along. But on the same token, it would be incorrect to claim "Rooney's back" as many pundits and media outlets have this morning, as it totally ignores his desperate form and performances for a number of months preceding it.

KH25

Fellaini was fairly crap last night and IMO should have been taken off at half time. Dean was a bit card happy and I could easily see the red coming for Fellaini. That said, Smalling and Morgan both had pretty awful games too and I don't see people calling for their heads.

All this stuff about him being our worst signing etc is just over the top. He's had some good performances for us and scores some important goals. Is he good enough to start? Probably not no. But he's a decent squad option and he tries hard when he's on the pitch. He's nowhere near as bad as some posters are letting on.

Flint Fredstone

Hummels hasn't been great since the World Cup, he wasn't even great at that. I wouldn't lose any sleep over missing out on him.

bangkok

TheDoc wrote: »

It was being banded around and shared last night across the internet. And it's totally moronic that people were using it to push an agenda.

You have just drawn a line under Fellaini. And it's the type of snobby elitism that sickens me from sections of the fanbase, that would paint a player "not United standard" based on selective performances, or just his style of play.Fellaini does nothing but put in 100% for me, and has rarely to never complained from what is in my view piss poor treatment he has received from fans and the manager in terms of his deployment.

When he came into the side last season and we moved to a 4-3-3, he was as important as Hererra in regards our performances improving and scored some important and nice goals To label him as one of our worst transfers also just goes to show your one dimensional view on him, that is beyond parody at this point.

If he is such a loser and waste of space, he wouldn't have kept our record signing on the bench for large portions of last season.

that is the bare minimum of a professional footballer. Tom Cleverly put in 100% effort and he got slated left right and centre. If 100% effort is the required standard of a club of our size we are in serious trouble.

He has played about 5 very good games for Man Utd. That is shocking. Seriously

His first season he never scored a single goal.

Last season he had a spell of 3-4 games where he played well.

This season he has been awful again, only 1 goal in the league and has missed numerous easy goal scoring opportunity's.

He is here now into his 3rd season (would have been sold last summer 2014 to Napoli only for injury) and we still don't know what his position is.

Liam O

brinty wrote: »

for a guy who supposed to be great in the air and header of the ball (and I don't think its true) Fellaini really let himself down last night missing a fairly open goal...

There's no excuses for that...

I've consistently said he was a panic buy by Moyes cos we got nothing done in the that summer, if we'd really wanted him the deal could've been done weeks before it was..

He's a square peg in a round hole...

I hope he could do better elsewhere but I don't think he's united standard

I don't see how being better in the air means that he scores that header considering he had to almost bend down to get it. How was it an open goal when he hit the target and the keeper saved it too?

Seriously are people thinking as they type or what?

Fellaini and Herrera together have proven to be the best CM partnership the last season and a half I'd say and without looking I'd say the stats prove that.

TheDoc

KH25 wrote: »

Fellaini was fairly crap last night and IMO should have been taken off at half time. Dean was a bit card happy and I could easily see the red coming for Fellaini. That said, Smalling and Morgan both had pretty awful games too and I don't see people calling for their heads.

All this stuff about him being our worst signing etc is just over the top. He's had some good performances for us and scores some important goals. Is he good enough to start? Probably not no. But he's a decent squad option and he tries hard when he's on the pitch. He's nowhere near as bad as some posters are letting on.

Does anyone else get infuriated by the way, about how he seems to get unfair treatment from referees. It's appears so blatant to me. He is a big unit, he is going to power people off the ball.

While he leaves a lot to be desired in terms of the silly fouls he makes dragging people back from behind, he gets a lot of fouls against him, that would not be fouls if it was two similar built players.

Very similar to the **** Peter Crouch went through for years.

Fellaini's booking last night was laughable. Two players on the ground covering the ball, the Newcastle defender lunges across Fellaini's legs to block him, and yet Fellaini gets booked. (His first of the season afaik)

I'm surprised more is not made about it, he is consistently receiving unfair treatment from referees being pulled up on fouls that simply arn't. While it rarely to never has an impact on the game or result, it's annoying as **** to consistently see.

Separately, Mike Dean is becoming a serious problem. He clearly has some issue with wanting to become a celebrity, or the centre piece. His response to the Smalling penatly was an absolute embarrassment, much like this nonsense for Spurs a while back. And he should be talked to about it. Pearson pretty much confirmed my assumption about him last season, never have I seen an official with that sort of demeanor,ego and arrogance.

Watched the Smalling penalty again this morning. I thought Van Gaal was dong a bit of fluff last night, but I totally see where he is coming from. Mitrovic was grabbing Smalling by the back of the head and then forced his head down, and also lashed out at him with two feet when he went down. Doesn't excuse Smalling's actions, but ****ing hell, would it not have been a peno if Mitrovic caught smalling on the chin with his boot as he attempted?

Rayne Wooney

Honestly, I think that was my favourite Van Gaal United performance last night though it's too late now. I've said it plenty of times over the past 3 years, if you set out to play good attacking football the results will eventually come. We did just that but we didn't get the result sadly, we should have won that game 5-2 if it wasn't for 3 major player mess ups.

For the first time in ages I can accept that we didn't get the 3 points not because of a poor system but because of the players. Van Gaal has wrongly come out in the past and blamed missing chances and lack of luck in the past 4 months as if the system was working fine but if he did it last night it would have been justified imo.


Bare in mind it can't be easy for the defence to switch system to one drastically different to what they've been drilled to do the past year and a half, I think that played a part in our haplessness last night. If only Van Gaal had done this in August by now I think we would have had a good balance and been able to challenge for the league, instead he's done it as pretty much a last act of desperation and you can't help but feel it's over for him at United now.

Liam O

Fellaini would have been sold to Napoli, a better team than United right now being used to criticise him. Great.

homerjay2005

TheDoc wrote: »

I should have been clearer.

I despise the use of manipulative data and statistics to push an agenda, when the data itself is totally unbiased and inconclusive.

true, but even ignoring that data,its clear Fellaini is not up to the standard of Manchester United.

and i say this, as somebody who was in awe of his performances in 2012 against us and i was one poster who said we should sign him. times have changed however, it hasnt worked out and he has no future at the club IMO.

lads have a seige mentality here when it comes to defending him and i think this is more down to them actually not liking the way posters like Bankok are constantly attacking him, as opposed to actually wanting the player to be in our team.

ill put it to you this way, if you asked 100 fans to pick their best 11 players, Fellaini wouldnt be on many of them and i think we all know, he wouldnt be playing for many other top sides. he is only playing now as we dont have anybody else and we dont have enough players, due to so much bad squad management.

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

MANCHESTER UNITED'S RECORD WITH AND WITHOUT MAROUANE FELLAINI

WITH FELLANI
Swansea City 2-1 Manchester United (13mins)
Manchester United 3-1 Liverpool (90mins)
Arsenal 3-0 Manchester United (45mins)
Everton 0-3 Manchester United (9mins)
Manchester United 0-0 Man City (15mins)
Crystal Palace 0-0 Manchester United (21mins)
Manchester United 0-0 West Ham (90mins)
Bournemouth 2-1 Manchester United (74mins)
Manchester United 1-2 Norwich City (60mins)
Stoke City 2-0 Manchester United (90mins)
Newcastle 3-3 Manchester United (90mins)

Won 2, Drawn 4, Lost 5 - 0.9 points/game



WITHOUT FELLAINI
Manchester United 1-0 Tottenham
Aston Villa 0-1 Manchester United
Manchester United 0-0 Newcastle United
Southampton 2-3 Manchester United
Manchester United 3-0 Sunderland
Manchester United 2-0 West Bromwich Albion
Watford 1-2 Manchester United
Leicester City 1-1 Manchester United
Manchester United 0-0 Chelsea
Manchester United 2-1 Swansea City

Won 7, Drawn 3, Lost 0 - 2.4 points/game

Trigger

I really do hope we sell Fellaini.. just to shut Bangkok the **** up about him.

bangkok

This was posted 2 years ago. Even the biggest fellaini defenders have to look at that and say it is all true/has come true?



Five reasons why Fellaini is a terrible Man United signing


Published 2 years ago


Marouane Fellaini is not the signing most Manchester United fans had hoped for when the summer transfer window opened.
That's a fairly non-controversial statement. But once your club buys a player, it's natural to begin rationalising it. You want him to do well because you want your club to win.
But, your gut reaction was right. Fellaini is not the right signing for Manchester United. That doesn't mean he's a bad player. In fact, he's a good player - and very effective in the right system.
But spending £27.5m on a midfielder who will almost certainly change the club's style of play is a massive risk for David Moyes - even if he does know the player well.
And that's perhaps why he didn't sign him until deadline day - until all other options (Fabregas, Khedira, Thiago Alcantara, Ander Herrera) were exhausted. It's a risk, and we don't think it was one worth taking.
So here's five reasons - with some evidence thrown in - as to why Fellaini is not the right signing for United.

5. He'll change the club's style of play
According to whoscored.com, United played 59 long balls per game last season - 16th most in the Premier League. Everton played 64 - third most.
United under Moyes so far this campaign - 73-per-game. The former-Toffees manager has already shifted United's style and Fellaini works well within this framework.
But United have never played this style of football. Will the fans embrace it? And it may work in the Premier League, but it certainly won't in the Champions League.
Against the likes of Barcelona, Real Madrid and Bayern Munich - teams United want to compete with in the latter stages - it's just too primitive. Fair enough, play long as a last resort in the latter stages - i.e. Borussia Dortmund against Malaga - but it should never be the first option for a top tier European side.


4. He prevents the purchase of a genuine world-class midfielder
Having spent £27.5m on a new midfielder, it would be foolish to expect United to spend anywhere close to this figure on another in the next few windows. With Michael Carrick and Marouane Fellaini, plus Tom Cleverley in reserve, to buy another £30m+ central midfielder would be an admission of error.
Fellaini is the player United have chosen - he may not have been first choice, or even second (which is worrying in itself) but he's the one they've gone with. And they're stuck with him.

3. He had the 156th best pass completion in the Premier League - 79.3 per cent
That puts him well behind Tom Cleverley (90.2 per cent), Shinji Kagawa (89.7 per cent), Michael Carrick (88.1 per cent), Danny Welbeck (86.8 per cent), Antonio Valencia (84.1 per cent) and Ryan Giggs (81.3 per cent).
Compared to United's current options, he's nowhere near as accomplished a passer. That chimes with the notion that United will change their style with him in the team. And that's OK if you're willing to change, and the change brings about similar results.
But such a large transfer fee for such a mediocre central midfield passer seems a little strange. It's just not good value for money.
Not to mention, United have been hugely successful playing a certain way. Bringing in Fellaini, who primarily scored most of his goals from behind the main striker, also jeopardises the position of Shinji Kagawa.
A starker contrast could not be made between the two players - one is the typical Ferguson playmaker, the other the typical Moyes.


2. But Manchester United will not play him in his best position
It's fair to assume Fellaini will probably play alongside Michael Carrick in the centre of midfield.
United tried to sign first Fabregas, then Herrera and then Khedira to play this position. Instead they signed Fellaini. And he'll fill that gap.
But that's not his best position. Fellaini scored 11 goals and provided five assists last season. And he did that in his role off the main striker - 28 of his 31 appearances came as either an attacking midfielder or second striker.
The closer the Belgian plays to the box, the more effective he is in terms of bringing others into play. Otherwise his knock-downs and flick-ons occur too far away from the goal.
But that's the realm of Wayne Rooney, and Manchester United fans hope, Shinji Kagawa. That's £27.5m on a midfielder playing somewhere other than his best position.

1. Statistics show he's not a £27.5m player
He'll bring a 'muscular presence' to the midfield apparently - what that actually means is he committed the most fouls most often when on the pitch - his 2.6-per-game was the highest in the Premier League last year.
And despite that, he's only the 14th best midfielder for tackles-per-game (2.6) behind Robert Snodgress and Mousa Dembele. So he's a slightly above-average tackler who also happens to give away the most free-kicks in the league.
His interceptions-per-game is even worse (1.2) - even Southampton's work shy South American playmaker Gaston Ramirez has more (1.6).
Remember, he'll be playing in centre midfield most likely - yet his key attributes for a player in this area - pass completion, interceptions and tackling - indicate that at best he's slightly above-average. You don't spend nearly £30m on an above-average player. Not when Arsenal spent £42m for a world-class one.
His key passes-per-game (1.3) is only good enough for 53rd best in the Premier League - behind Andy Carroll and Barry Bannan. Don't expect Rooney or Kagawa-like vision if he does play in his best position behind the striker.
And concerning midfielders with more than 25 Premier League appearances, only Everton teammate Steven Pienaar, West Brom's Youssuf Mulumbu and West Ham's Mohamed Dianme were dispossessed more often per game (2.4 times per match).
And to back this stat up - Fellaini led the league in turnovers-per-match (2.5 times per fixture). That's more than Adel Taarabt (2.2) and Arouna Kone.

KH25

TheDoc wrote: »

Does anyone else get infuriated by the way, about how he seems to get unfair treatment from referees. It's appears so blatant to me. He is a big unit, he is going to power people off the ball.

While he leaves a lot to be desired in terms of the silly fouls he makes dragging people back from behind, he gets a lot of fouls against him, that would not be fouls if it was two similar built players.

Very similar to the **** Peter Crouch went through for years.

Fellaini's booking last night was laughable. Two players on the ground covering the ball, the Newcastle defender lunges across Fellaini's legs to block him, and yet Fellaini gets booked. (His first of the season afaik)

I'm surprised more is not made about it, he is consistently receiving unfair treatment from referees being pulled up on fouls that simply arn't. While it rarely to never has an impact on the game or result, it's annoying as **** to consistently see.

Separately, Mike Dean is becoming a serious problem. He clearly has some issue with wanting to become a celebrity, or the centre piece. His response to the Smalling penatly was an absolute embarrassment, much like this nonsense for Spurs a while back. And he should be talked to about it. Pearson pretty much confirmed my assumption about him last season, never have I seen an official with that sort of demeanor,ego and arrogance.

Watched the Smalling penalty again this morning. I thought Van Gaal was dong a bit of fluff last night, but I totally see where he is coming from. Mitrovic was grabbing Smalling by the back of the head and then forced his head down, and also lashed out at him with two feet when he went down. Doesn't excuse Smalling's actions, but ****ing hell, would it not have been a peno if Mitrovic caught smalling on the chin with his boot as he attempted?

I think it's just part and parcel of the game to be honest. Some of the calls against him can be silly but it's the same for any player with a bit of a rep really.

Dean is a very poor ref. I think it was a penalty because Smalling was all over Mitrovic, but I think he's far too willing to break out the cards. He doesn't control games well.

Coat22

TheDoc wrote: »

Sorry maybe I've mixed your post up with another I saw, but I was responding to the statement that Smalling's good form was a blip, and that he has returned to type of being all over the place.

I think that is unfair and a selective reflection on what has been some recent mishaps, as opposed to the season overall (including the improvement he made at the backend of last season also)

On the flipside, I've gone past the point of Rooney's terrible form being a bad blip, and in recent matches we are now back to type. I think this just might be the infamous Rooney purple patch that he has every season. But that will only be apparent as the months roll along. But on the same token, it would be incorrect to claim "Rooney's back" as many pundits and media outlets have this morning, as it totally ignores his desperate form and performances for a number of months preceding it.

Well I certainly didn't say his form was a blip but I do think his form has been somewhat exaggerated by our style of play and the quality of the 2 DMs in front of him.

Rooney on the other hand is having his usual "4 or 5 goals in 3 or 4 games which makes him look great" period. Expect that to end Sunday.

Pro. F

It's hilarious that there are still people blaming the players at this stage.

castletownman

Without sounding like I am banging on the same drum (certainly not to the same extent Bangkok does towards Fellaini), I still have my reservations about Smalling being a top-bracket centre-half. A few brain-farts again last night, to mirror the Wolfsburg game, the last time United conceded three.

I just think that he looks very good when the team as a whole is set up defensively, but doesn't possess the natural ability to single-handedly grab the game from the scruff of the neck when things are slightly more pear-shaped (or the game is a little bit more open in front of him), ALA Vidic, John Terry or Richard Dunne in an Irish jersey. Have never seen him emerge from a game that United threw away with his reputation enhanced (though I suppose that's the life of a defender).

Perhaps, he's the poster boy of the dour LVG style.

Polo_Mint

I would love for Jose Mourinho to get the job today