Nazi memorabilia for sale in Dublin. Appropriate?

Arbiter of Good Taste

2011 wrote: »

Sure a bit of censorship never hurt anyone :rolleyes:

Clearly you believe that, so why the eye roll?

Arbiter of Good Taste

.

MaryAntoinette

Where is Robbie to the rescue of op.

mada999

sure would someone not think of the childreren ?? should have fished for more likes on facebook op....

2011

2011 wrote: »

I went to a second hand shop in Dublin yesterday, it mainly sells furniture. I was just browsing and unexpectedly found some WW2 bits and bobs of that I found interesting.

While rummaging I found some authentic looking German iron crosses, swastika type medals and badges and such like. There were also some old post cards of Adolf Hitler. Also included was some original (or so the notice on it claimed) signed doodles and notes by the Führer himself with a price tag on it of over €1,250. There were also a number of medals, badges and such like from the allied forces.

I have no objection to seeing this type of thing in a museum but I would be quite shocked to see it in someones home. In fact I find it quite offensive and I was surprised to see it for sale in a shop such as this.

According to this link:

I am reluctant to post the name of the shop, but it is well know for furniture and is not far from the city centre.

Is it just me or is selling Nazi memorabilia such as this entirely inappropriate?

Items like mention whether genuine or not represents part of history and because there's no law against selling them then members of the public has the right to buy them i mean lets just say a law is bought in that says items like mention can't be sold to the public, then whats next along the way put a ban on the public going to see WW2 movies in the cinema, history tell us Hitler bought in a law like that where he try to bully his ideas by destroying and killing the education of history that he didn't like, he fail but does that mean the future has to bury his part in history to museums only, then if thats the case then what freedom of understanding of history does education have in their search for peace.

Merry Christmas all, hiccup :rolleyes:

humberklog

A friend of mine has an antique and curio shop in Powerscourt in Dublin. He's French and picks up stuff from markets in France.

I noticed an Iron Cross with swastika and asked him about them and the buyers.

He said the people that buy it are regular general war memorabilia collectors. There's some collectors that are more enthusiastic on certain countries or eras. But the Nazi memorabilia collectors representation wasn't any higher (or scarier) than other specific collector.

He put this down to collectors' habits. There's was too many items produced by the nazis with the swastika logo.
For example: An Iron Cross without the swastika generally goes for more money than one with a swastika. The nazis gave them out like confetti. They're too common.

I like people who have an interest in collecting relatively recent historical items. They're like private curators of stuff that had significance. Important stuff in safe hands.

dubscottie

humberklog wrote: »

He put this down to collectors' habits. There's was too many items produced by the nazis with the swastika logo.
For example: An Iron Cross without the swastika generally goes for more money than one with a swastika. The nazis gave them out like confetti. They're too common.

Genuine Iron Crosses with swastikas are very, very rare and worth 100's more than one without.

German medals awarded under the Nazi regime were seized by the allies at the end of WW2 as part of the de-nazification process and it was 1957 IIRC before the West German government agreed to reissue new medals (in the style of WW1 medals) to those that were awarded them in WW2.

humberklog

dubscottie wrote: »

Genuine Iron Crosses with swastikas are very, very rare and worth 100's more than one without.

German medals awarded under the Nazi regime were seized by the allies at the end of WW2 as part of the de-nazification process and it was 1957 IIRC before the West German government agreed to reissue new medals (in the style of WW1 medals) to those that were awarded them in WW2.

The conversation I had was about 4 year ago and he was selling one with swastika for 175. I don't know this area at all so I don't know if this is a lot or a little to pay for such an item.

Dyr

humberklog wrote: »

There's some collectors that are more enthusiastic on certain countries or eras. But the Nazi memorabilia collectors representation wasn't any higher (or scarier) than other specific collector.

Pretty sure he's completely wrong there.

wendell borton

According to Wikipedia over four million of various classes were handed out, including two to Jewish officers of the Finnish army who refused to accept them.

humberklog

Bambi wrote: »

Pretty sure he's completely wrong there.

He was only talking about in his own experience. His shop isn't exclusively war things. It only makes up an occasional and small selection in his small shop.

DanielODonnell

UVF promo material is sold outside many UK soccer stadiums,

Sonderkommando

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The fact that Mao is a restaurant that specializes in Asian foods made me laugh so hard. It's like opening one that specializes in German food and calling it Adolf's!

I'd call it Goebbels.

KungPao

I wish I were a Nazi. Then I'd get things done.

If only I had their 'get up and go'...

Badly Drunk Boy

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh I know that. They just offended our eyes, not our sensitivities.

What were we thinking. They were miserable and grim looking things.

I find the swastika aesthetically pleasing. Obviously, I know it's history (Nazism being only a late addition to its 'popularity'), but artistically and even geometrically, it's alright (to me, at least).

steddyeddy

Hmmm I don't think the fact that some Irish people were too friendly with Nazi party members is indicative of our tolerance for the Nazi's ideals. Some seem to be suggesting this but it's not the case.

The following relates to English royals and public figure's fondness for the nazi's.

Following the First World War, the royal family changed its name from Saxe-Coburg-Gotha to Windsor to distract attention from its German heritage.

Family members of Prince Philip, who is from the house of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glucksburg, were unabashed supporters of Hitler and the Nazis.

Brother-in-law, Prince Christoph of Hesse, was a member of the SS. He piloted fighters that attacked allied troops in Italy.

Several weeks before Germany invaded Poland King George VI and his wife, the late Queen Mother, sent Hitler a birthday greeting.

“I never thought Hitler was such a bad chap,” said George’s brother, the former King Edward VIII, who became the Duke of Windsor after abdicating in 1936. Edward made this remark in 1970 when it was widely known that Hitler and the Nazis had directly and indirectly killed more than 40 million civilians and soldiers.

The Nazis planned to install the Duke as leader after a successful conquest of Britain. The former head of British naval intelligence said Hitler “would soon be in this country, but that there was no reason to worry about it because he would bring the Duke of Windsor over as king.”

Other royals were also connected to the Nazis. Baron Gunther von Reibnitz, the father of Princess Michael of Kent, was a party member and an honorary member of the SS. The brother of Princess Alice was a Nazi who claimed Hitler had done a “wonderful job.” Charles Edward was placed under house arrest after the war for his Nazi sympathies. He was sentenced by a denazification court, heavily fined and almost bankrupted.

Much of the British gentry also held a fondness for Hitler and the Nazis. Lord Halifax was infatuated with Hitler and Sir Oswald Mosely served as the leader of the British Black Shirts.

Montagu Norman, 1st Baron Norman, the Governor of the Bank of England from 1920 to 1944, was a close friend of the German Central Bank President Hjalmar Schacht. Schacht was an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler and the Nazi Party and served in the Nazi government as President of the Reichsbank and Minister of Economics. Norman played a key role in transferring Czechoslovakian gold to the Nazis in March 1939

steddyeddy

In other words guys I think it's a bit ridiculous to bring up the Ireland signing of the books of condolence again and again. We've historically been nicer to the Jewish people than most European countries have been.

dubscottie

In Italy you can openly buy mass produced Mussolini stuff without any problems..

They still worship him. Don't hear anyone giving out about that..

dubscottie

steddyeddy wrote: »

The following relates to English royals and public figure's fondness for the nazi's.

British you mean.. That's why Hess flew to Scotland..

Dyr

dubscottie wrote: »

British you mean.. That's why Hess flew to Scotland..

He flew to scotland because he was radio rental. Which is the only reason you'd visit the place

Zebra3

DanielODonnell wrote: »

UVF promo material is sold outside many UK soccer stadiums,

Plenty of British army propaganda goes on inside British football stadiums.

Eugene Norman

dubscottie wrote: »

In Italy you can openly buy mass produced Mussolini stuff without any problems..

They still worship him. Don't hear anyone giving out about that..

He was an authoritarian dictator but not a convinced racial supremicist

Wibbs

Eugene Norman wrote: »

He was an authoritarian dictator but not a convinced racial supremicism.

Exactly. Mussolini was most certainly a ground zero fascist but was very much more relaxed about it, at least compared to the German version. His biographer(and mistress) was Jewish. It was only later on under major pressure from Hitler the antisemetic shíte came along. The Italians didn't have any issue with modern art either.

tim_holsters

DanielODonnell wrote: »

UVF promo material is sold outside many UK soccer stadiums,

Well go ahead and name a few so, you said many so it should be a decent list I'm looking forward to perusing it.

Don't fcuking let me down mate.

Zebra3

Eugene Norman wrote: »

He was an authoritarian dictator but not a convinced racial supremicist

His actions in invading Abyssinia would make me disagree with that.

As much a supremacist as the likes of that toerag Churchill.

Nodin

Eugene Norman wrote: »

He was an authoritarian dictator but not a convinced racial supremicist

....tbh, racial supremacism (you're browner than me so you're inferior) was the norm. Adolf just added insane anti-Semitism, took it to the next level and did it in Europe.

steddyeddy

No offence but how can an a man of Italian-Moorish descent be in favor of white supremacy?

Joe prim

2011 wrote: »

It is on display in a glass cabinet at the till along with lots of similar stuff.
I was actually looking for furniture and got sidetracked.
Are you suggesting that I am making this up?
If so why? Is this simply not credible?

This is exactly the same retail model used by Aldi and Lidl, you go in looking for a pound of butter and a jar of coffee, and you come out with a Tiger tank and the battle standard of the SS Standartgruppen Das Reich, and when you get home, you've forgotten the fcukin' butter!

Dyr

Joe prim wrote: »

This is exactly the same retail model used by Aldi and Lidl, you go in looking for a pound of butter and a jar of coffee, and you come out with a Tiger tank and the battle standard of the SS Standartgruppen Das Reich, and when you get home, you've forgotten the fcukin' butter!

butter will only make you fat though

m1ck007

Zebra3 wrote: »

His actions in invading Abyssinia would make me disagree with that.

As much a supremacist as the likes of that toerag Churchill.

Toerag churchill?

Cool_CM

Quick, OP, search 'Iron Cross' on adverts and prepare to be offended!

Wibbs

They've also a few "nazi" watches on Adverts from time to time like this one(originally for women and tiny so…). Though sometimes there's a glut of utter fakes with SS symbols on the dials. They never* had any of that on original ones. Here's one, a Ukrainian special and yer man wants how much for it? Two grand :eek: :pac:






*with one exception, but you won't ever see one on Adverts.

All that evil memorabilia glorifying the 12 years of the Third Reich. Horrendous. We should only be buying memorabilia glorifying those gentle Union Jack-flying souls who for centuries heroically ruled over 25% of the planet out of a selfless desire to civilise the darkies/papists/uncivilised tribes/wilde Irishe and the heathen generally.

Bad Hitler. Nice die-hard mass murdering, Kurd-gassing, Irish-hating imperialist Mr Churchill.

And to the "Mother England saved us from Nazism" crowd of deluded fantasists, you lost c. 300,000 people in WW II, having collaborated - "appeasement" as you euphemistically term it - with Mr Hitler for six years before 1939 as he invaded a slew of places. The Russians lost between 25 and 30 million people resisting the same Mr Hitler. You don't hear either of these massively relevant historical facts amid your revisionist propaganda poppy campaigns (the irony of the Royal British Legion, the organisers of the poppy campaigns today, being one of Hitler's staunchest allies in the 1930s is quietly hushed up), of course.

Dyr

Actually if you really want creepy meorabilia try the adolf hitler and henry himmler replica figures that some company make nowadays

StudentDad

Henry Ford was a major contributor to the Nazi Party. Should we all boycott the Ford Motor Company? It irritates the hell out of me when these simplistic arguments are trotted out; Nazi's evil (them) Allies (not the free state, we were neutral) good. Of course we forget about De Valera sending notes of condolences to the German Reich on the death of Hitler.

Don't get me wrong the Nazi's were an evil party; but what seems to be forgotten is that we were just as brutal when we were part of the British Empire and bringing 'civilisation' to the rest of the planet. At the root of the abhorrence toward Hitler and his ilk, isn't that he started a world war and slaughtered millions. It was the fact that he slaughtered Europeans, in the heart of Europe! There lies the hypocrisy! Oh and in case someone thinks I'm a Nazi sympathiser, I'm not. Hitler and co. were an evil bunch of bastards. They needed to be stopped. What separated them from us at the time is that they just acted in accordance with their anti-semitic views. Views which to be honest were not the preserve of the Third Reich alone.

SD

Nodin

Bambi wrote: »

Actually if you really want creepy meorabilia try the adolf hitler and henry himmler replica figures that some company make nowadays

In Italy you used be able to get a model (premade, die cast) of Hitler in the Fuhrer-mobile, taking his heils.

Wurzelbert

Deleted User wrote: »

All that evil memorabilia glorifying the 12 years of the Third Reich. Horrendous. We should only be buying memorabilia glorifying those gentle Union Jack-flying souls who for centuries heroically ruled over 25% of the planet out of a selfless desire to civilise the darkies/papists/uncivilised tribes/wilde Irishe and the heathen generally.

Bad Hitler. Nice die-hard mass murdering, Kurd-gassing, Irish-hating imperialist Mr Churchill.

And to the "Mother England saved us from Nazism" crowd of deluded fantasists, you lost c. 300,000 people in WW II, having collaborated - "appeasement" as you euphemistically term it - with Mr Hitler for six years before 1939 as he invaded a slew of places. The Russians lost between 25 and 30 million people resisting the same Mr Hitler. You don't hear either of these massively relevant historical facts amid your revisionist propaganda poppy campaigns (the irony of the Royal British Legion, the organisers of the poppy campaigns today, being one of Hitler's staunchest allies in the 1930s is quietly hushed up), of course.

and don’t forget that it was the brits who started war against germany in 1914 and 1939 and thereby turned two european conflicts into world wars, both times without being attacked by germany but purely for the benefit of british trade and imperialism and to preserve britain’s status as a world power…remember the brits have waged wars even to make people smoke opium…the fact that they screwed themselves and lost their empire in the process is really but poetic justice…

Jawgap

I wonder which is my worst piece of militaria......

.......my Luftwaffe navigator's watch or my USAF / RAF navigator's watch - either or both of which may have been used by aircrew to guide a bomber over civilian concentrations?

They're artefacts.

Tony EH

humberklog wrote: »

For example: An Iron Cross without the swastika generally goes for more money than one with a swastika. The nazis gave them out like confetti. They're too common.

A few things.

The Germans most certainly did not hand out Iron Crosses of any class (2nd, 1st or Knights) like "confetti" in either of the world wars. You needed to have done something to be considered worthy, usually and act or acts of bravery, and you had to be recommended by your superior. It isn't a 'Purple Heart we're talking about here.

All Iron Crosses from 1939-45 have the swastika on them. If it's entirely without, then it's a medal that was produced after the war in West Germany for veterans to wear at ceremonies. These also had an oak leaf design on them too. If it's has a "W" in the middle, instead of a swastika, then it's a First World War medal, issued from 1914-18.

The most common Iron Cross is the 2nd Class iron Cross. This is probably what your friend was referencing to. This award was given out to military personnel with a ribbon attached. Black and silver in WWI and red, white and black during WWII. A recipient didn't wear the cross though. They merely wore the ribbon, tucked through a button hole in their tunic.

The 1st class Iron Cross is the one most people seek out and they are the most faked. This award was a pin decoration and worn on the left patch pocket of a persons tunic. It's usually what people associate with an "Iron Cross". Be very weary of any of these items being for sale outside what you should consider as reputable dealers. There are literally more fakes available than genuine items.

The Knights Cross of the iron Cross is a larger version and worn around the neck. This is then later supplemented by the oak leaves and the crossed swords and diamonds, for further acts of bravery. Expect to pay big bucks for this, especially if it has the award document as well.

Usually, people starting out go for the 2nd class Iron Cross and get a 1st Class later, then stop, because the price rises sharply for a Knights Cross.

Contrary to the popular idea, the Germans didn't have many awards. Certainly not as many as the British or Russians. But the Iron Cross is usually the starting out point for many people, because it is so widely known.

maryishere

StudentDad wrote: »

Of course we forget about De Valera sending notes of condolences to the German Reich on the death of Hitler.

It was the least poor old Dev could do out of respect for the hundreds of thousands of Irish people who volunteered to help the allies fight Nazism in one way or another. Shure they were not bad auld creatures Hitler and his pal Mussolini.

Wibbs

Jawgap wrote: »

I wonder which is my worst piece of militaria......

.......my Luftwaffe navigator's watch.

You have a B-Uhr? :eek: Nice. Sadly unwearable unless you're built like King Kong.

Palbear

FURET wrote: »

You find it offensive and inappropriate. Well so bloody what? "I find it quite offensive" has become one of the most sanctimonious and obnoxious combinations of words in language today.

To this pedantic contributor, the linguistic combination is not obnoxious but rather it is grammatically poor. Use of "quite" is superfluous. It is sufficient to simply say "offensive".

Staying on topic, I agree with the OP that selling this stuff is not appropriate, at least from a moral perspective. It should be in a museum, not a shop.

tim_holsters

Zebra3 wrote: »

Plenty of British army propaganda goes on inside British football stadiums.

My word, that is probably the stupidest sentence I've ever read on boards. Thick as fcuk, you've really got to wonder about some folk.

Nodin

Palbear wrote: »

To this pedantic contributor, the linguistic combination is not obnoxious but rather it is grammatically poor. Use of "quite" is superfluous. It is sufficient to simply say "offensive".

Staying on topic, I agree with the OP that selling this stuff is not appropriate, at least from a moral perspective. It should be in a museum, not a shop.

Yeah, we can institute a moral police to weed out deviancy from the nations retail outlets.

indioblack

maryishere wrote: »

It was the least poor old Dev could do out of respect for the hundreds of thousands of Irish people who volunteered to help the allies fight Nazism in one way or another. Shure they were not bad auld creatures Hitler and his pal Mussolini.

I often wonder if the condolences were passed on to Germany.
One could imagine a bemused telegraphist in Berlin saying to his colleagues, "The countries bombed to pieces, there are several Russian armies in the streets - and this guy from Ireland is saying he's sorry!"

maryishere

indioblack wrote: »

One could imagine a bemused telegraphist in Berlin saying to his colleagues, "The countries bombed to pieces, there are several Russian armies in the streets - and this guy from Ireland is saying he's sorry!"

Think Dev was expressing condolences on the death of Hitler, not on the German defeat.

indioblack

maryishere wrote: »

Think Dev was expressing condolences on the death of Hitler, not on the German defeat.

Yes - not the wisest thing to do. It should have been consigned to the trivia of history - but it's followed De Valera and his memory ever since.

Tony EH

Palbear wrote: »

To this pedantic contributor, the linguistic combination is not obnoxious but rather it is grammatically poor. Use of "quite" is superfluous. It is sufficient to simply say "offensive".

Staying on topic, I agree with the OP that selling this stuff is not appropriate, at least from a moral perspective. It should be in a museum, not a shop.

What "morals" ?

Means Of Escape

Wehrmacht ceremonial dagger and metal sheath value?

Palbear

Tony EH wrote: »

What "morals" ?

Mine.
The Nazis were murderers.
Maybe not all of them but certainly very many were.
Profiteering from selling their artefacts is not something I view favourably.