Will you be going to mass this Christmas

JupiterKid

Not anymore, but I did go the occasional Christmas years ago and always when I was a child. I always thought the hymn singing was lovely.

Some people enjoy Christmas mass and others don't. Live and let live.

freewheeler

c_man wrote: »

You must be a hit at parties.


There was a couple with their kids sitting behind me yesterday. They (the parents) spent the whole Mass whispering, skitting and having a laugh. They weren't accompanied by Granny or anything, so why bother? You're just disrupting it for others.

Could you please expand on this non-sensical post?

c_man

freewheeler wrote: »

Could you please expand on this non-sensical post?

What's confusing? Grown adults with small family in tow, go to Mass and mess throughout the whole thing causing disturbance for others. Why bother? Was it you?! :eek:

JupiterKid

freewheeler wrote: »

Religion (or fairy tales for adults as i prefer to call it) should be banned as it has warped the minds of poor desperate people for far too long! Great to hear that church attendances are falling..have we finally woken up to the truth? As you can probably guess i didn't attend mass this xmas lol

Regular attendance at church has been in free fall since the 90s.

freewheeler

haveringchick wrote: »

Star Wars should be banned and Harry Potter and English Premier League football as it has warped the minds of poor desperate people for far too long.
Also GAA and following Btitish soap operas
Hopefully everybody who participates in these activities will finally wake up to the truth and only participate in things that I enjoy/am interested in /approve of

All harmless pastimes as far as i can see...unless you know something that you'd care to enlighten us with?? At least they don't claim 'eternal salvation' or other such bull whilst relieving you of your hard earned...

Usernemises

No I didn't go to mass this Christmas. In my opinion religion is the greatest scam in the history of mankind, it's responsible for quite a lot of death and suffering.

freewheeler

c_man wrote: »

What's confusing? Grown adults with small family in tow, go to Mass and mess throughout the whole thing causing disturbance for others. Why bother? Was it you?! :eek:

whether i'm a "hit at parties" seems totally irrelevant to the point i was making..as for the rest well they were obviously just following the herd and participating in something in which they had no interest (but still like to be 'seen' to do the 'right' thing by their kids) as people always have done..

Gaygooner

Gaygooner wrote: »

Watching the BBC and going on with Jimmy Saville two very different things

If the BBC COvered it up heads should roll- not like the RCC - suffer little children

Not sure I get your point.

I will make sure my child is not abused by priests, DJs or swim coaches. But I may expose her to the Church, the radio and sports.

Usernemises

Usernemises wrote: »

No I didn't go to mass this Christmas. In my opinion religion is the greatest scam in the history of mankind, it's responsible for quite a lot of death and suffering.

I don't disagree, but on the other hand I'm proud to be Irish...yet nationalism has caused how many wars and deaths since the dawn of time? In my lifetime I have seen wars on this island, and in Europe like the fall of Yugoslavia, caused by nationalism.

lazybones32

freewheeler wrote: »

All harmless pastimes as far as i can see...unless you know something that you'd care to enlighten us with?? At least they don't claim 'eternal salvation' or other such bull whilst relieving you of your hard earned...

And how exactly does going to Mass cause harm? Be specific as possible, please.
A collection basket/plate is passed from one attendee to another: donation is not mandatory. I have not given money at many masses and have never been refused subsequent entry nor had to furnish my reason for not contributing. This doesn't happen at GAA matches, etc.

Usernemises wrote: »

No I didn't go to mass this Christmas. In my opinion religion is the greatest scam in the history of mankind, it's responsible for quite a lot of death and suffering.

Life and people are the greatest source of death and suffering.

Usernemises

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't disagree, but on the other hand I'm proud to be Irish...yet nationalism has caused how many wars and deaths since the dawn of time? In my lifetime I have seen wars on this island, and in Europe like the fall of Yugoslavia, caused by nationalism.

Valid point, however a fair wedge of humanity were killed or suffered for no reason other than religion. Be it in the name of God, or because they happend to worship the wrong God. It's insane.

Dyr

CelticRambler wrote: »

By the same logic, you really shouldn't watch any BBC productions either ...

Were the BBC running the hospitals and schools that sir jimmy was f**king corpses in? There's a whole level of evil that the church perpetrated above the individuals who carried out the abuse.


If you need to go to mass for a sense of community it says a lot about your community.

haveringchick

freewheeler wrote: »

All harmless pastimes as far as i can see...unless you know something that you'd care to enlighten us with?? At least they don't claim 'eternal salvation' or other such bull whilst relieving you of your hard earned...

I'm interested really in how the "banning" of religion would according to you
Do you mean banned just in Ireland or throughout the world?
I presume you mean that all the religious buildings and buildings belonging to religious orders ( most of the schools and hospitals ) would be closed including churches mosques temples etc
And all the religious clerics including priests vicars imams and rabbis be stood down
And practising religion be banned?
How do you intend to police this?
For example if it is suspected that a priest is secretly saying mass in an ordinary suburban semi, should the Gardai raid the house? What would the penalty be?
Over 80% of people ticked the Catholic box on the census. There are well over 1 billion Catholics in the world and on the increase at the moment
How would a world wide ban work?
That's not to even get on to Islam!
Anyway, I'm sure you have a theory so I'm looking forward to hearing it!

topmanamillion

haveringchick wrote: »

Over 80% of people ticked the Catholic box on the census. There are well over 1 billion Catholics in the world and on the increase at the moment

Mmm, a lot of people ticking Catholic wouldn't know where the local church is, never mind attend mass. Catholicism is expanding in developing countries where poverty is high and so "Christian charity" is welcome.
My own observation but is it a coincidence that there's a South American Pope? Could it be the Catholic Church are consolidating their position in SA?
In the western world catholicism is on the decline as evidenced by a country that was defined by its religion (Ireland) only 20 years ago, now experiencing dwindling regular church attendances and an almost zero intake of new clergy men and women. Not to mention referenda which are contra to the church's teachings passing (divorce and gay marriage).

None of that signals to me that 80% (around 4million people) of Ireland are practising Catholics or anything close to it.

There are a number of reasons for such a high stat in contradiction to the facts on the ground e.g tradition ("it's what we always picked") , ease of filling out a long form, lack of appropriate options ("other" seems like it's for foreign lads), "i know the numerator and I don't want them thinking I'm a pagan" etc.

A friendly piece of advice would be to never take stats at face value.

Graces7

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

EVERYONE should be made welcome... who are we to judge anyone? I remember years ago in Coventry cathedral how the ushers handled the drunks so gently! Jesus welcomes EVERYONE. So do true Christians. I hate when the priest rants like that. He should welcome all in the name of Jesus.

Graces7

beertons wrote: »

Attempted to go last night. But as I walked in the door, it was just over. I didn't realise they changed the time. Met a few neighbours, chatted with the priest and lit a few candles. Said a few prayers for the family too.

I love the atmosphere after mass..when they turn the lights low and people linger to pray. Longing to be there!

Graces7

Optimalprimerib wrote: »

Two years ago, i went where the priest had a 15 minute rant about how disgraceful it is that everyone shows up for christmas mass yet not to be seen for the rest of the year.

It was an angry bitter sermon that caused an exodus of people walking out of the church before communion was even given.

Since then, i never went to mass on christmas day. As a non-mass goer week to week, i would not feel welcome.

Why let ONE MAN stop you? I would not do thatl Pray for the man.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

haveringchick

topmanamillion wrote: »

Mmm, a lot of people ticking Catholic wouldn't know where the local church is, never mind attend mass. Catholicism is expanding in developing countries where poverty is high and so "Christian charity" is welcome.
My own observation but is it a coincidence that there's a South American Pope? Could it be the Catholic Church are consolidating their position in SA?
In the western world catholicism is on the decline as evidenced by a country that was defined by its religion (Ireland) only 20 years ago, now experiencing dwindling regular church attendances and an almost zero intake of new clergy men and women. Not to mention referenda which are contra to the church's teachings passing (divorce and gay marriage).

None of that signals to me that 80% (around 4million people) of Ireland are practising Catholics or anything close to it.

There are a number of reasons for such a high stat in contradiction to the facts on the ground e.g tradition ("it's what we always picked") , ease of filling out a long form, lack of appropriate options ("other" seems like it's for foreign lads), "i know the numerator and I don't want them thinking I'm a pagan" etc.

A friendly piece of advice would be to never take stats at face value.

Yes but I'm wondering how banning religion, as the poster suggests, is going to work?
Incidentally, if a family had no religion, all they had to tick was ,"none"

Zebra3

kylith wrote: »

I suggest you research Hanukkah.

Why would you suggest that when I know what it is?

And what had it got to do with a jew being on their own for Christmas?

Stojkovic

80% of Irish people are practising Catholics ?
Really ?
100% of my friends are Catholics and 100% of them are non-practising.

haveringchick

Stojkovic wrote: »

80% of Irish people are practising Catholics ?
Really ?
100% of my friends are Catholics and 100% of them are non-practising.

But who said 80% were practising Catholics?

Graces7

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Poor Jesus left out there in the cold then..Show me where He excluded anyone. Judging indeed.Shame on the priest. Making the House of God some kind of exclusive club.

It wasnt me123

Local church not very full on Christmas eve, Priests (Monks) all over the age of 70 and that seems to be the norm in every church I've been in recently. The church is losing relevance in peoples lives - IMO as society becomes better educated, we rely on the church as the leading voice less and less - and quite right too. I have no problem with the church having an opinion but it should never be the only opinion. I walked out of a church once during the homily when the priest started giving out about gay people - calling them all sorts of horrible things - just stood up and walked out.

Bambi

Bambi wrote: »

Were the BBC running the hospitals and schools that sir jimmy was f**king corpses in? There's a whole level of evil that the church perpetrated above the individuals who carried out the abuse.


If you need to go to mass for a sense of community it says a lot about your community.

The usual tarring has started I see. The actions of a tiny minority of priests is not a reason for people to give up on their religion and stop going to mass, in fact it's a terrible reason. It's not different to boycotting swimming pools.

I see big crowds at mass week in week out so hopefully people will begin to cop on a bit again and more people will start returning to mass. It's lovely to see the big crowds on Christmas too, we were 35 mins early for mass and got a few of the last seats in the Church such was the crowd and a majority of threat crowd would be people I see in mass regularly.

eviltwin

Cristian Grumpy Mouthful wrote: »

The usual tarring has started I see. The actions of a tiny minority of priests is not a reason for people to give up on their religion and stop going to mass, in fact it's a terrible reason. It's not different to boycotting swimming pools.

I see big crowds at mass week in week out so hopefully people will begin to cop on a bit again and more people will start returning to mass. It's lovely to see the big crowds on Christmas too, we were 35 mins early for mass and got a few of the last seats in the Church such was the crowd and a majority of threat crowd would be people I see in mass regularly.

Do you not find the big crowds somewhat depressing knowing they won't be back again until the next big event?

eviltwin

eviltwin wrote: »

Do you not find the big crowds somewhat depressing knowing they won't be back again until the next big event?

As I said a lot of the crowd would be regular mass goers, just everyone goes at the same time and to the local church rather than spread out across different times/other churchs. There is always a good crowd at any mass I go to and I often end up going to different churches so not just basing it on one.

Zimmey

Well, I hope the opposite and hope that Ireland continues to move farther away from the Catholic church. The majority of schools becoming secular will be the death knell, IMO. Can't wait!

haveringchick

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

Local church not very full on Christmas eve, Priests (Monks) all over the age of 70 and that seems to be the norm in every church I've been in recently. The church is losing relevance in peoples lives - IMO as society becomes better educated, we rely on the church as the leading voice less and less - and quite right too. I have no problem with the church having an opinion but it should never be the only opinion. I walked out of a church once during the homily when the priest started giving out about gay people - calling them all sorts of horrible things - just stood up and walked out.

Our Cathedral packed including standing at the back on Christmas Eve , brand new Archbishop who spent long years on the Missions in Africa
Many different nationalities taking part, plenty of young families. Beautiful music wonderful homily terrific community spirit

freewheeler

haveringchick wrote: »

I'm interested really in how the "banning" of religion would according to you
Do you mean banned just in Ireland or throughout the world?
I presume you mean that all the religious buildings and buildings belonging to religious orders ( most of the schools and hospitals ) would be closed including churches mosques temples etc
And all the religious clerics including priests vicars imams and rabbis be stood down
And practising religion be banned?
How do you intend to police this?
For example if it is suspected that a priest is secretly saying mass in an ordinary suburban semi, should the Gardai raid the house? What would the penalty be?
Over 80% of people ticked the Catholic box on the census. There are well over 1 billion Catholics in the world and on the increase at the moment
How would a world wide ban work?
That's not to even get on to Islam!
Anyway, I'm sure you have a theory so I'm looking forward to hearing it!

'Banning' religion was suggested with tongue firmly in cheek..however i just think that the whole religion thing is a colossal waste of time and effort.
The Catholic church as far as i can see anyway is only expanding in third world countries..which is understandable given the lack of education in those places.
The vast majority of people i know consider themselves catholic - the percentage of them that practice? virtually zero..except of course the obligatory/hypocritical xmas church visits.

faceman

Zimmey wrote: »

Well, I hope the opposite and hope that Ireland continues to move farther away from the Catholic church. The majority of schools becoming secular will be the death knell, IMO. Can't wait!

While I totally welcome complete separation of church and state, there are millions of people worldwide who take great comfort and hope from their beliefs.

MRnotlob606

I would consider myself an avowed Catholic, So I would stress it is sort important to go to mass on Christmas. It is a holy day of obligation.

freewheeler

lazybones32 wrote: »

And how exactly does going to Mass cause harm? Be specific as possible, please.
A collection basket/plate is passed from one attendee to another: donation is not mandatory. I have not given money at many masses and have never been refused subsequent entry nor had to furnish my reason for not contributing. This doesn't happen at GAA matches, etc.


Life and people are the greatest source of death and suffering.

To me anyway going to mass/believing in 'gods' does cause harm in the sense that it gives people false hopes that some magical being is going to solve all their woes..where the only help you are going to receive in this world is from your friends & family and modern science.
Don't even get me started on the 'teachings' of our beloved church..they are as far from reality and relevance in the 21st century as the 'flat earth society'!

freewheeler

freewheeler wrote: »

Don't even get me started on the 'teachings' of our beloved church..they are as far from reality and relevance in the 21st century as the 'flat earth society'!

It's not all bad.

Isn't the basic tenet of Christianity not love your neighbour as yourself? It seems a pretty sound philosophy to me. I wouldn't be religious at all, but I'm comfortable with most of the teachings of the Church and while I might disagree with them on their positions on, say, abortion, I can understand and appreciate their views.

haveringchick

freewheeler wrote: »

'Banning' religion was suggested with tongue firmly in cheek..however i just think that the whole religion thing is a colossal waste of time and effort.
The Catholic church as far as i can see anyway is only expanding in third world countries..which is understandable given the lack of education in those places.
The vast majority of people i know consider themselves catholic - the percentage of them that practice? virtually zero..except of course the obligatory/hypocritical xmas church visits.

If religion is not wasting your time and effort then why can't you just get on with your life and let others get on with theirs?
I'm sure if I knew your hobbies and interests I'd possibly find them irritating and boring but I wouldn't be so arrogant as to point that out
Tongue in cheek? I don't think so

Zimmey

faceman wrote: »

While I totally welcome complete separation of church and state, there are millions of people worldwide who take great comfort and hope from their beliefs.

Oh, of course. I'm totally happy for people to practice religion.

fly_agaric

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Uncharitable I think. If people respect the ceremony, other mass-goers & the church what's the problem? I they come into the church really late, play with their phone during the mass, talk all the way through etc then yes, they shouldn't bother (maybe some Church bouncer should kick them out [joke]) !
If you don't actually believe in it and are just going for some sort of pseudospiritual buzz at Christmas, going up and accepting communion is also (I think) disrespecting the ceremony.

Zimmey

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's not all bad.

Isn't the basic tenet of Christianity not love your neighbour as yourself? It seems a pretty sound philosophy to me. I wouldn't be religious at all, but I'm comfortable with most of the teachings of the Church and while I might disagree with them on their positions on, say, abortion, I can understand and appreciate their views.

But the better teachings of the Church is just stuff that any decent person does regardless of religion. There's nothing particularly special or Christian about them.

freewheeler

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not all bad.

Isn't the basic tenet of Christianity not love your neighbour as yourself? It seems a pretty sound philosophy to me. I wouldn't be religious at all, but I'm comfortable with most of the teachings of the Church and while I might disagree with them on their positions on, say, abortion, I can understand and appreciate their views.

Agreed..however not everyone is as rational as you appear to be and take everything they hear at mass etc. as 'gospel' All i wish for is that people educate themselves and not blindly follow and believe in everything they are told. Remember its not that long ago that contraception was frowned upon!!! The church didn't exactly cover themselves in glory in the recent gay marriage referendum either...what kind of a society would we be if we blindly followed these dangerous teachings??

freewheeler

haveringchick wrote: »

If religion is not wasting your time and effort then why can't you just get on with your life and let others get on with theirs?
I'm sure if I knew your hobbies and interests I'd possibly find them irritating and boring but I wouldn't be so arrogant as to point that out
Tongue in cheek? I don't think so

1. i am getting on with my life thanks!
2. i don't stand outside church trying to stop people attending.
3. The reason i find the church 'irritating' is that it has way too much say in peoples lives (although thankfully this is dwindling) and Irish society in general.

haveringchick

freewheeler wrote: »

Agreed..however not everyone is as rational as you appear to be and take everything they hear at mass etc. as 'gospel' All i wish for is that people educate themselves and not blindly follow and believe in everything they are told. Remember its not that long ago that contraception was frowned upon!!! The church didn't exactly cover themselves in glory in the recent gay marriage referendum either...what kind of a society would we be if we blindly followed these dangerous teachings??

What do you mean "cover themselves in glory"? Did you think that they should just change their own rules and regulations in order to follow the herd? Why should they be "glory" hunters?
They have their point, wether you like it or not they're entitled to their point, and when asked for their point they're entitled to give it?
Just because you or anybody else doesn't agree with that point doesn't mean that you are "covered in glory" and they are not?
Can you see how that works?
Also in reference to your patronising tone about blindly following everything they are told, you do realise that many highly educated well read are religious, don't you? It's not the preserve of the disadvantaged!

haveringchick

freewheeler wrote: »

1. i am getting on with my life thanks!
2. i don't stand outside church trying to stop people attending.
3. The reason i find the church 'irritating' is that it has way too much say in peoples lives (although thankfully this is dwindling) and Irish society in general.

In what way is it having a say in your life?

Orangebrigade

No. I'm not a papist.

Dyr

Cristian Grumpy Mouthful wrote: »

The usual tarring has started I see. The actions of a tiny minority of priests is not a reason for people to give up on their religion and stop going to mass, in fact it's a terrible reason. It's not different to boycotting swimming pools.

I see big crowds at mass week in week out so hopefully people will begin to cop on a bit again and more people will start returning to mass. It's lovely to see the big crowds on Christmas too, we were 35 mins early for mass and got a few of the last seats in the Church such was the crowd and a majority of threat crowd would be people I see in mass regularly.

Don't remember IASA trying to run the country for a few generations. Sure swimming will do you no harm on its own, obeying frustrated men who say god put them in charge though? No good comes of that.

Thankfully the era of superstition in europe is coming to a close.

"Your time is gone and ye don't even know it"

Dyr

Orangebrigade wrote: »

No. I'm not a papist.

As a protestant you're not even really a christian.

freewheeler

haveringchick wrote: »

In what way is it having a say in your life?

It has no say in my life..i can think rationally for myself...i said PEOPLES lives if you care to read my post. I know of vulnerable people who donate their money to various branches of the catholic church mainly because of receiving church literature through their doors..donating money to one of the richest organisations on earth?? and for what??? because they are made to feel they should!
Truth be told the church in common with a lot (if not most) huge organisations is corrupt and rotten to the core....designed solely these days at least to separate you from your cash.

smokingman

haveringchick wrote: »

If religion is not wasting your time and effort then why can't you just get on with your life and let others get on with theirs?
I'm sure if I knew your hobbies and interests I'd possibly find them irritating and boring but I wouldn't be so arrogant as to point that out
Tongue in cheek? I don't think so

So religion is actually just a hobby for you so?

haveringchick

freewheeler wrote: »

It has no say in my life..i can think rationally for myself...i said PEOPLES lives if you care to read my post. I know of vulnerable people who donate their money to various branches of the catholic church mainly because of receiving church literature through their doors..donating money to one of the richest organisations on earth?? and for what??? because they are made to feel they should!
Truth be told the church in common with a lot (if not most) huge organisations is corrupt and rotten to the core....designed solely these days at least to separate you from your cash.

What various branches of the RCC are you alleging are defrauding people of their savings? Have you reported this extortion to the Gardai?
If you are referring to practising Catholics making donations regularly to their local Church then what possible issue could you have with that?
People spend money inappropriately all the time. It's a matter of opinion, not fact as you state, wether giving to charity is inappropriate or not.
As your not being personally affected by the Church, and you've only vague wild unsubstantiated allegations of financial chicanery, I'd ask you once again why you cannot just let people get on with their lives in religion while you get on with your without?

haveringchick

smokingman wrote: »

So religion is actually just a hobby for you so?

No it's not. I have a real relationship with Jesus.
This particular poster refers to religion as a sort of expenstive pointless hobby
It's the same as me complaint about people joining the golf club and paying their annual subscription

Eugene Norman

freewheeler wrote: »

1. i am getting on with my life thanks!
2. i don't stand outside church trying to stop people attending.
3. The reason i find the church 'irritating' is that it has way too much say in peoples lives (although thankfully this is dwindling) and Irish society in general.

If this was the 1950's you'd be a radical.