Eviction notice as a Christmas present!

antoinolachtnai

It is not a matter of what they would do. It is a matter of how they would go about it.

borderlinemeath

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

It is not a matter of what they would do. It is a matter of how they would go about it.

I don't think the OPs sister cares either way. All she cares about is security of tenancy. Even if it's a termination notice rather than eviction notice, either way she'll have to find somewhere else to live in the not too distant future.

daisyday121

Just some background here. They've been in the house just under 6 months. The house was a state when they moved in so they agreed a reduced rent if they redecorated. They put down new floors, carpets and repainted. They put down decking and planted new grass. Their lease was for 2 years as they have a new baby and had no plans to leave. The letter was posted through the door late in the evening by an agent of the landlord whilst they were there. I understand that business is business, but this feels like they've been taken advantage of.

Graces7

daisyday121 wrote: »

Thanks for all your replies. I've spoken to her and he never gave an actual eviction date, just that they needed to leave as he was putting the house up for sale. They also need to let people view it. To my knowledge this can't actually be a proper eviction notice as it needs a date for leaving, so why leave it on Christmas Eve?

This called " desk clearing" and a policy of the civil service etc and is totally callous and intolerant and many other things I cannot say here. Just o they can say they finished their work Had to pick the pieces up once after a bank served a repossession notice on a farmer friend on at the same time. he almost killed himself. The worst thing in both these cases is that you can do nothing until after the holidays...You need to call threshold as soon as they open after the holidays; I had a similar word from my landlord and they were stars. Sounds that that letter is not legally viable or binding and she will need to play for time so find somewhere else. I know now that I will have 112 days if and when my landlord does decide to sell or move in here. Nothing in writing so fine so far

Graces7

daisyday121 wrote: »

Just some background here. They've been in the house just under 6 months. The house was a state when they moved in so they agreed a reduced rent if they redecorated. They put down new floors, carpets and repainted. They put down decking and planted new grass. Their lease was for 2 years as they have a new baby and had no plans to leave. The letter was posted through the door late in the evening by an agent of the landlord whilst they were there. I understand that business is business, but this feels like they've been taken advantage of.

Thanks; I posted above before I read this. The 6 month deadline explains more. You need the expert and cool headed advice Threshold will give you. And they will need exact lease terms in writing as all this sounds irregular. But the 6 month timing is unfortunate.

kirving

daisyday121 wrote: »

Just some background here. They've been in the house just under 6 months. The house was a state when they moved in so they agreed a reduced rent if they redecorated. They put down new floors, carpets and repainted. They put down decking and planted new grass. Their lease was for 2 years as they have a new baby and had no plans to leave. The letter was posted through the door late in the evening by an agent of the landlord whilst they were there. I understand that business is business, but this feels like they've been taken advantage of.

I hope they're paid for the work they've done to the house since the lease is being cut short (6 month probation or not, that's taking advantage).

If it was me, and I wasn't paid for the work, I'd be taking the paint back off the walls, taking up the carpets, floors, decking, everything.

Vindictive, absolutely, but so is putting in a notice on Christmas Eve with a new baby, a 2 year lease, and work done on the house - with no explanation.

borderlinemeath

Graces7 wrote: »

Thanks; I posted above before I read this. The 6 month deadline explains more. You need the expert and cool headed advice Threshold will give you. And they will need exact lease terms in writing as all this sounds irregular. But the 6 month timing is unfortunate.

Threshold have been known to tell tenants to illegally overhold on properties. Their "advice" can sometimes cause more trouble than it's worth. PRTB is a better option IMO.

First thing that springs to mind is that it may be a fixed term tenancy as it's for 2 years rather than a standard lease. It's possible that the landlord is trying to pull a fast one due to new legislation and is looking to increase the rent. It's also entirely possible that he is selling up. Clarification on the exact type of lease is needed.

Tigger

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

I agree. But some posters prefer to take a cut-your-nose-off-to-spite-your-face position. I guess they get satisfaction from sticking to the "greedy" landlord.

Nothing to do with greed
The notice arrived on Christmas Eve
People ,rightly or wrongly, look forward for a long time to Christmas

Tigger

daisyday121 wrote: »

Just some background here. They've been in the house just under 6 months. The house was a state when they moved in so they agreed a reduced rent if they redecorated. They put down new floors, carpets and repainted. They put down decking and planted new grass. Their lease was for 2 years as they have a new baby and had no plans to leave. The letter was posted through the door late in the evening by an agent of the landlord whilst they were there. I understand that business is business, but this feels like they've been taken advantage of.

Well if they have a lease that's different
Afaik needing to sell or use the house for family is a reason to break a part 4 tenancy but not a lease
Tell her to ring threshold when they come back

antoinolachtnai

If they have a two year lease then the landlord is out of luck. He is going to have to wait or make a settlement.

Tigger

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

If they have a two year lease then the landlord is out of luck. He is going to have to wait or make a settlement.

And he will have a part 4 tenancy on his hands and will have to make a legal decleration on the reason for termination in 18months time
However I feel that she should look to move once the lease is over (maybe before) as he's clearly a clown

Graham

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

If they have a two year lease then the landlord is out of luck. He is going to have to wait or make a settlement.

It's not unheard of for a fixed term lease to include a break clause specifically to allow the landlord to sell the property.

The Randy Riverbeast

If she is in a lease then he might not be able to end the tenancy. Part 4 allows you to end it when selling but leases tend to be passed to the new LL. In my case it was some viewings and then business as usual. They did let me end the lease early though as the new LL wanted to redecorate. Its possible the lease mentions ending the tenancy but Im not sure if it would be legal or not.

Meeoow

Very foolish putting money into a rented house. No way I'd put down new floors and carpet in someone else's house.

Graham

The Randy Riverbeast wrote: »

If she is in a lease then he might not be able to end the tenancy. Part 4 allows you to end it when selling but leases tend to be passed to the new LL. In my case it was some viewings and then business as usual. They did let me end the lease early though as the new LL wanted to redecorate. Its possible the lease mentions ending the tenancy but Im not sure if it would be legal or not.

As long as it meets the part 4 requirements why would it not be legal to include a clause to break the lease. I've seen the selling-up clause in quite a few leases.

circular flexing

Graham wrote: »

As long as it meets the part 4 requirements why would it not be legal to include a clause to break the lease. I've seen the selling-up clause in quite a few leases.

Just becuase it's in a lease does not mean it's legal.

The PRTB are a bit vague as to whether break clauses can apply to fixed term leases. The RTA seems to indicate that fixed term tenancies can only be terminated if either landlord/tenant are in breach of obligations or if the landlord refuses a sublet. Their site is down but here's the cached page

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:sQcKPPk4l8MJ:www.prtb.ie/dispute-resolution/disputes/terminating-a-fixed-term-tenancy+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

Graham

circular flexing wrote: »

Just becuase it's in a lease does not mean it's legal.

The PRTB are a bit vague as to whether break clauses can apply to fixed term leases. The RTA seems to indicate that fixed term tenancies can only be terminated if either landlord/tenant are in breach of obligations or if the landlord refuses a sublet. Their site is down but here's the cached page

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:sQcKPPk4l8MJ:www.prtb.ie/dispute-resolution/disputes/terminating-a-fixed-term-tenancy+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

Go back and read my post again then re-read the page you linked too, specifically the section 'break clauses'.

Where a break clause is provided for in a fixed term tenancy agreement,

circular flexing

Graham wrote: »

Go back and read my post again then re-read the page you linked too, specifically the section 'break clauses'.

And read on bit further

the question arises as to whether the landlord or the tenant can rely on this break clause to terminate the tenancy

and then maybe go and read the sections of the Act?

Graham

circular flexing wrote: »

And read on bit further



and then maybe go and read the sections of the Act?

As I already said, once it doesn't attempt to remove/reduce any part 4 rights the tenant has acquired.

athtrasna

Take it to PM guys please. To and fro posting conplicates a thread.

Mod

Graces7

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Threshold have been known to tell tenants to illegally overhold on properties. Their "advice" can sometimes cause more trouble than it's worth. PRTB is a better option IMO.

First thing that springs to mind is that it may be a fixed term tenancy as it's for 2 years rather than a standard lease. It's possible that the landlord is trying to pull a fast one due to new legislation and is looking to increase the rent. It's also entirely possible that he is selling up. Clarification on the exact type of lease is needed.

I have never heard of this from anyone but you and that has not been my considerable personal experience of Threshold. Whatever it is expert professional advice the OP needs on this.I am in a similar situation with the landlord here and threshold have been supportive and informative.

Arbiter of Good Taste

Graces7 wrote: »

I have never heard of this from anyone but you and that has not been my considerable personal experience of Threshold. Whatever it is expert professional advice the OP needs on this.I am in a similar situation with the landlord here and threshold have been supportive and informative.

I've read it in a number of places. Supportive and informative does not necessarily equate to correct and legal.

borderlinemeath

Graces7 wrote: »

I have never heard of this from anyone but you and that has not been my considerable personal experience of Threshold. Whatever it is expert professional advice the OP needs on this.I am in a similar situation with the landlord here and threshold have been supportive and informative.

Really?

Because it's spoken of here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=93426062

here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=97533078

here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=96633743

And you've even posted in this thread here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=98025700

If you're persistent enough I think Threshold will tell you what you want to hear. Or people just believe what they want to believe and legality goes out the window. Threshold give advice that, morally speaking, their heart is in the right place, but their grasp on legality and contract law is most certainly not.

Graces7

Graces7 wrote: »

I have never heard of this from anyone but you and that has not been my considerable personal experience of Threshold. Whatever it is expert professional advice the OP needs on this.I am in a similar situation with the landlord here and threshold have been supportive and informative.

To be honest everything I've read about threashold makes them look very unprofessional, not knowing what they are taking about and giving advice encouraging tenants to do things which are illegal.

_Kaiser_

Meeoow wrote: »

Very foolish putting money into a rented house. No way I'd put down new floors and carpet in someone else's house.

While true, this is in fact part of the problem with our rental sector. It's still seen as a second-class choice for those with no other option, or a stop-gap on the glorious road to ownership and is treated (by ALL sides) accordingly.

In reality we SHOULD have long (3-5+ years) tenancies as the norm so that people can put down roots and make the place their home which is clearly what the family referenced in the OP was trying to do.

This is something that should be encouraging... because the reality is that not everyone WILL own their own home (and contrary to popular belief in this country, there's no right to expect to either).

Lux23

Katherine Teeny Number wrote: »

To be honest everything I've read about threashold makes them look very unprofessional, not knowing what they are taking about and giving advice encouraging tenants to do things which are illegal.

Well what would you say to a single parent with a couple of kids who is likely to end up in a B&B once the tenancy ends? Any sensible person would say on the quiet, stay where you are until you find somewhere else.

And Threshold are a professional organisation dealing with an industry that is full of unprofessional landlords. I have been renting for ten years and out of the 7 landlords I had only one actually understood their obligations. Their advice is practical.

borderlinemeath

Lux23 wrote: »

Well what would you say to a single parent with a couple of kids who is likely to end up in a B&B once the tenancy ends? Any sensible person would say on the quiet, stay where you are until you find somewhere else.

A sensible person would suggest that the renter expand their desired rental area to find somewhere affordable.

And Threshold are a professional organisation dealing with an industry that is full of unprofessional landlords. I have been renting for ten years and out of the 7 landlords I had only one actually understood their obligations. Their advice is practical.

Threshold are a charity, rather than a professional organisation. And to add some balance to the argument, you could say that landlords have been dealing with unprofessional tenants for years. Tenants on this forum routinely don't understand their tenancy obligations, particularly regarding notice and/or their entitlement to their full deposit when they break a contract, but the blame always lies with the "greedy landlord"

Lux23

borderlinemeath wrote: »

A sensible person would suggest that the renter expand their desired rental area to find somewhere affordable.

Threshold are a charity, rather than a professional organisation. And to add some balance to the argument, you could say that landlords have been dealing with unprofessional tenants for years. Tenants on this forum routinely don't understand their tenancy obligations, particularly regarding notice and/or their entitlement to their full deposit when they break a contract, but the blame always lies with the "greedy landlord"

Tenants have responsibilities as well and I agree fully with that, but lots of landlords can't actually afford to look after their own properties and tenants are expected to bear the brunt of this.

I also think your first bit of advice isn't all that practical either. Uprooting a family from an area where their support network is and where they can easily access public transport to a more rural location is not only impractical, it could also cost a lot more in the long run.

Even if your kids are in school in say Blanchardstown and you're asked to move to say Swords, you are talking about getting kids up at 6.00am to catch two buses. Its a very hard, long day if you're relying on public transport. Moving schools is a bit of a joke too, what are you supposed to do? Move your kids after each lease is up? I don't have kids but I have moved 4 times in the last two years to keep rental costs down, how is a family supposed to deal with that kind of instability?

Threshold are dealing with real life practical crisis housing situations every day and I would trust their judgement over someone who has barely considered what a move can actually mean for a family.

borderlinemeath

Lux23 wrote: »

Tenants have responsibilities as well and I agree fully with that, but lots of landlords can't actually afford to look after their own properties and tenants are expected to bear the brunt of this.

I also think your first bit of advice isn't all that practical either. Uprooting a family from an area where their support network is and where they can easily access public transport to a more rural location is not only impractical, it could also cost a lot more in the long run.

Even if your kids are in school in say Blanchardstown and you're asked to move to say Swords, you are talking about getting kids up at 6.00am to catch two buses. Its a very hard, long day if you're relying on public transport. Moving schools is a bit of a joke too, what are you supposed to do? Move your kids after each lease is up? I don't have kids but I have moved 4 times in the last two years to keep rental costs down, how is a family supposed to deal with that kind of instability?

Threshold are dealing with real life practical crisis housing situations every day and I would trust their judgement over someone who has barely considered what a move can actually mean for a family.

If you're renting and you can't afford to live in Dublin, then you may have to move out of Dublin. Some people have this notion that they have an entitlement to live in the capital city because it's where they always lived, or because it's where they work but now they are being priced out of the market. Nobody has a right or an entitlement to live where they cannot afford. What do you think people do in other capital cities the world over? They move to a commutable town.

Lux23

Lux23 wrote: »

Well what would you say to a single parent with a couple of kids who is likely to end up in a B&B once the tenancy ends? Any sensible person would say on the quiet, stay where you are until you find somewhere else.

They should be advised to do everything they can to find a place but if they can't they must vacate the property on the agreed date, no excuses.