Christmas celebrations banned in Somalia, Tajikistan and Brunei

whatismyname

I'm openly not a fan of Christmas, and would be happy to escape it altogether, yet I don't think I'd quite like to be in Somalia, Tajikistan or Brunei where Christmas is banned, with the potential of being jailed for celebrating Christmas.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/23/christmas-banned-somalia-tajikistan-brunei

The governments of three countries – Somalia, Tajikistan and Brunei – have banned Christmas celebrations this year, with punishments ranging up to a five-year jail term.

Somalia issued a ban on Christmas and New Year’s celebrations in the Muslim country on Wednesday, saying the festivities “have nothing to do with Islam”.

“We warn against celebration of Christmas, which is only for Christians,” Sheikh Mohamed Kheyrow, director of Somalia’s ministry of religion, said on state radio. “This is a matter of faith. The Christmas holiday and its drum beatings have nothing to do with Islam.” He said the ministry has sent letters to the police, national security intelligence and officials in the capital Mogadishu instructing them to “prevent Christmas celebrations”.

The majority Muslim but nominally secular central Asian republic of Tajikistan has also issued its toughest-ever ban on seasonal celebrations, banning Christmas trees and gift-giving in schools.

The country has been cracking down on Christmas and New Year’s in recent years, and banned Father Frost – Russia’s equivalent of Santa Claus – from television screens in 2013. Halloween celebrations in the capital, Dushanbe, have also been targeted by police, with revellers dressed as zombies and vampires reportedly being detained in 2013 and 2014.

The oil-rich sultanate of Brunei, has also banned Christmas celebrations, under a shift towards hardline Islamic law. Sultan Hassanal Bolkiah, one of the world’s richest men, announced last year he would push ahead with the introduction of sharia law, eventually including tough penalties such as death by stoning or severed limbs.

Religious leaders in the sultanate warned this month that a ban on Christmas would be strictly enforced, for fear that Muslims could be led astray. “Using religious symbols like crosses, lighting candles, putting up Christmas trees, singing religious songs, sending Christmas greetings … are against Islamic faith,” imams said in sermons published in the local press.

Punishment for violating the ban is a five-year jail sentence, and the government warned last year that Muslims would be committing an offence if they so much as wore “hats or clothes that resemble Santa Claus”

Here's some of the reactions from people there.

“This will be the saddest Christmas ever for me,” a Malaysian expatriate resident told AFP, requesting not to be named for fear of reprisals from authorities. “The best part of Christmas Day is waking up and having that feeling that it is Christmas, but there’s just none of that here and you just feel deprived.

“All this is just because of what the sultan wants. In 2013, I saw many Muslims together with Christians having a good time at their house parties. Everything was normal and good,” he said.

Some people dared to post pictures on social media depicting Christmas cheer using the hashtag #MyTreedom, part of a global campaign to highlight oppression against Christians. At least one church in the capital sported decorations that were visible from the street, a rare glimpse of holiday cheer in the otherwise decoration-free city.

“The ban is ridiculous. It projects this image that Islam does not respect the rights of other religions to celebrate their faith,” said a Muslim mother in the capital, also too scared to provide her name. “Islam teaches us to respect one another and I believe it starts with respecting other religions even if what is being banned are ornamental displays.”

Some more in support:

Others were more tempered, and urged the prohibition to be respected. “It is an Islamic country and so with respect to the law, churches need to keep decorations indoors,” said a Christian Bruneian, unfazed by the strict rules. “The meaning of Christmas for us isn’t all about Christmas decorations.”

biko

When muslims are in minority - obsessed with minority and religious rights.
When muslims are in majority - no minority or religious rights.

Collie D

biko wrote: »

When muslims are in minority - obsessed with minority and religious rights.
When muslims are in majority - no minority or religious rights.

This post should get the usual thankers

Richard Hillman

Europe in 100 years time.

bodice ripper

I have a feeling this isn't even close to the worst thing happening in any of those places.

Collie D

bodice ripper wrote: »

I have a feeling this isn't even close to the worst thing happening in any of those places.

Indeed. I wouldn't be advertising my Christianity by sticking up a Xmas tree in Mogadishu fir example

suicide_circus

Backward coonts

ASoberThought

Ah, tolerant Islam.

ASoberThought

biko wrote: »

When muslims are in minority - obsessed with minority and religious rights.
When muslims are in majority - no minority or religious rights.

This.

Saipanne

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Europe in 100 years time.

Yep. Thankfully I won't live to see it.

Hemerodrome

Collie D wrote: »

Indeed. I wouldn't be advertising my Christianity by sticking up a Xmas tree in Mogadishu fir example

Xmas tree....fir example....loving your work man.

kettlehead

Saipanne wrote: »

Yep. Thankfully I won't live to see it.

Your grandkids might. “A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.” We are planting a load of time bombs.

Saipanne

kettlehead wrote: »

Your grandkids might. “A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.” We are planting a load of time bombs.

I don't want kids and I believe resistance is futile. This is the world the Guardianistas want. They will get it.

Eugene Norman

kettlehead wrote: »

Your grandkids might. “A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.” We are planting a load of time bombs.

There's not much hope of that happening. Not that I think that Muslim immigration has been all that successful but it would take a demographic transition so that Islam was the majority and all Muslims were radicalised anti-Christians.

The Randy Riverbeast

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Europe in 100 years time.

The mole people will take over first.

Nodin

biko wrote: »

When muslims are in minority - obsessed with minority and religious rights.
When muslims are in majority - no minority or religious rights.

....nicely ignoring the muslim countries where its not a problem eg
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/12/iran-christians-armenians-christmas-rouhani.html#

http://www.jordantimes.com/news/local/jordanians-celebrate-religious-harmony-christmas-follows-prophet%E2%80%99s-birthday

Don't let that stop you though.

Dr Turk Turkelton

ASoberThought wrote: »

Ah, tolerant Islam.

Religion of peace ya know.

droidman123

We ban nativity scenes and cribs here at Christmas so as not to offend "other" religions.this carry on in Somalia and Brunei makes us look even more foolish than ever

Nodin

droidman123 wrote: »

We ban nativity scenes and cribs here at Christmas so as not to offend "other" religions.this carry on in Somalia and Brunei makes us look even more foolish than ever

We don't.

The_Valeyard

Nodin wrote: »

We don't.

Not sure what part of the world he could be in. But certainly not in Ireland.

ASoberThought

Jordan is not tolerant below the surface. It's just another example of how disgusting society is when it's a Muslim majority.

I would link but I'm newly registered and can't. It would not be a comfortable experience to be Christian in that country and shoud a Muslim wish to convert, they could expect a swift death soon after.

The Backwards Man

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Europe in 100 years time.

Balls. I often wonder do you folk actually really believe this balderdash, or are yous just spewing out scaremongering hate inspiring bollocks in the hope that some gullible eejits will fall for it?

Nodin

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Not sure what part of the world he could be in. But certainly not in Ireland.

Could be Ireland in Dimension 235 (A) where they fight off attempts to impose muslamic law on a daily basis.

mikeym

Sharia Law is great isnt it.

Someone better tell islamaphobic Fox News.

The_Valeyard

Nodin wrote: »

Could be Ireland in Dimension 235 (A) where they fight off attempts to impose muslamic law on a daily basis.

Wrong. That's dimension 235 (B)

235 (A) is where hamburgers eat people.

kettlehead

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Balls. I often wonder do you folk actually really believe this balderdash, or are yous just spewing out scaremongering hate inspiring bollocks in the hope that some gullible eejits will fall for it?

Millions of Muslims migrate to Europe each year. Their birth rate is much higher than the natives whose birth rate is below replacement levels. It is inevitable that Muslims will eventually become majorities in large swathes of Europe. It's only a matter of time.

Nodin

kettlehead wrote: »

Millions of Muslims migrate to Europe each year. Their birth rate is much higher than the natives whose birth rate is below replacement levels. It is inevitable that Muslims will eventually become majorities in large swathes of Europe. It's only a matter of time.

Yep. Any day now.

The Backwards Man

kettlehead wrote: »

Millions of Muslims migrate to Europe each year. Their birth rate is much higher than the natives whose birth rate is below replacement levels. It is inevitable that Muslims will eventually become majorities in large swathes of Europe. It's only a matter of time.

Ooooh that's me convinced me now, I'm quaking in my boots here:pac:

I'll ask you the same question, do you seriously believe that load of crap you've just posted there?

Eugene Norman

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Balls. I often wonder do you folk actually really believe this balderdash, or are yous just spewing out scaremongering hate inspiring bollocks in the hope that some gullible eejits will fall for it?

You're right.

Maybe 300 years. Muslim demographics aren't that strong.

Fleawuss

One brand of God mania bans a different brand of God mania. A silly hope I have that one day we might look at each other as fellow human beings and that's all. Time for some John Lennon.

kettlehead

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Ooooh that's me convinced me now, I'm quaking in my boots here:pac:

I'll ask you the same question, do you seriously believe that load of crap you've just posted there?

Do I believe that millions of Muslims migrate to Europe each year? Yes.

Do I believe that they have a higher birth rate than the natives? Yes.

Do I believe that native Europeans have a below replacement birth rate? Yes.

All of this is entirely factual. Which part of it is crap, exactly? If millions of people move in and have a high birth rate then their numbers will continuously rise exponentially. If another group do not have an above replacement birth rate then their numbers will dwindle.

This is basic stuff.

The Backwards Man

Eugene Norman wrote: »

You're right.

Maybe 300 years. Muslim demographics aren't that strong.

There's more chance of a zombie apocalypse tbh. Mind you, there's plenty of eejits out there that believe in that bollocks too.

gctest50

kettlehead wrote: »

Millions of Muslims migrate to Europe each year. Their birth rate is much higher than the natives whose birth rate is below replacement levels. It is inevitable that Muslims will eventually become majorities in large swathes of Europe. It's only a matter of time.

better start having more babies then, esp the academically inclined n stuff


http://i.imgur.com/9YrRycD.jpg <<<<<<<

suicide_circus

“Whoever changes his religion, execute him.” - Mohammed (prophet)

The Randy Riverbeast

mikeym wrote: »

Sharia Law is great isnt it.

Someone better tell islamaphobic Fox News.

They have enough war on Christmas on their plate. Who cares about countries where Christians are actually persecuted when they have Starbucks cups without snowflakes right on their doorstep.

Nodin

kettlehead wrote: »

Do I believe that millions of Muslims migrate to Europe each year? Yes.

Do I believe that they have a higher birth rate than the natives? Yes.

Do I believe that native Europeans have a below replacement birth rate? Yes.

All of this is entirely factual. Which part of it is crap, exactly?

Well, as you've delivered a simplistic version of reality that doesn't include all of the facts, all of it is in fact crap.
http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/openforum/article/Debunking-the-myth-of-a-Eurabia-2460503.php

Eugene Norman

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Ooooh that's me convinced me now, I'm quaking in my boots here:pac:

I'll ask you the same question, do you seriously believe that load of crap you've just posted there?

That's not an argument. Your ability to quake or not in your boots is irrelevant. Any sub population with continual higher demographics than the total population will eventually be the majority population. That excludes further immigration.

There are a few arguments against this (and Hillmans sentiment).

1) possibly within the non-Muslim population there are sub groups that have higher demographics. In this case were this to continue and be inheritable then populations will equalise. Non- Muslim fertility will increase after a while.
2) the Muslim population might see reduced total fertility. This would involve some kind of secularisation.
3) European Muslims secularise, intermarry and none of this matters.


The maths however is not really in dispute.

Graces7

Collie D wrote: »

Indeed. I wouldn't be advertising my Christianity by sticking up a Xmas tree in Mogadishu fir example

Is that a typo?

Eugene Norman

Fleawuss wrote: »

One brand of God mania bans a different brand of God mania. A silly hope I have that one day we might look at each other as fellow human beings and that's all. Time for some John Lennon.

Well they banned Christmas. I suppose you think celebrating that is religious mania and therefore you didn't?

Nodin

Eugene Norman wrote: »

That's not an argument. Your ability to quake or not in your boots is irrelevant. Any sub population with continual higher demographics than the total population will eventually be the majority population. That excludes further immigration.

There are a few arguments against this (and Hillmans sentiment).

1) possibly within the non-Muslim population there are sub groups that have higher demographics. In this case were this to continue and be inheritable then populations will equalise. Non- Muslim fertility will increase after a while.
2) the Muslim population might see reduced total fertility. This would involve some kind of secularisation.
3) European Muslims secularise, intermarry and none of this matters.


The maths however is not really in dispute.

Yes it is, as it presumes that the first generations large family is continuously replicated in subsequent generations.

kettlehead

Nodin wrote: »

Well, as you've delivered a simplistic version of reality that doesn't include all of the facts, all of it is in fact crap.
http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/openforum/article/Debunking-the-myth-of-a-Eurabia-2460503.php

A five year old article from San Francisco. That's me told. It's not like Muslim immigration has drastically increased since then and is expected to continue to do so for the foreseeable future or anything.

It doesn't matter much if their birth rate begins to level off by third generation if there are millions coming in every year.

Eugene Norman

The Backwards Man wrote: »

There's more chance of a zombie apocalypse tbh. Mind you, there's plenty of eejits out there that believe in that bollocks too.

You really don't understand demographics. Please go away and learn some high school mathematics. Then come back.

Graces7

I have celebrated Christmas in some strange places with no outward signs.. In my heart that belong to Jesus. Wherever I am this will be my Christmas.

kettlehead

Nodin wrote: »

Yes it is, as it presumes that the first generations large family is continuously replicated in subsequent generations.

It does not matter a bollix if their birth rate eventually drops off by the third generation if there are millions of first generation migrants entering every year.

Nodin

kettlehead wrote: »

A five year old article from San Francisco. That's me told. It's not like Muslim immigration has drastically increased since then and is expected to continue to do so for the foreseeable future or anything.

It doesn't matter much if their birth rate begins to level off by third generation if there are millions coming in every year.

'Screw your liberal facts, MUSLIMS'.

We saw a total of roughly a million muslims this year, I think, in the middle of a massive refugee crisis, entering an area with a population over 540 million (afaik).

Eugene Norman

kettlehead wrote: »

A five year old article from San Francisco. That's me told. It's not like Muslim immigration has drastically increased since then and is expected to continue to do so for the foreseeable future or anything.

It doesn't matter much if their birth rate begins to level off by third generation if there are millions coming in every year.

Also it only goes out to 2030 as if the fertility differentials stop there.

I personally think that there's a fairly good chance of Muslim secularisation provided the ME calms down but the longer the US keeps invading for no reason and as long as the policy of neo-cons is a destabilised Middle East rather than dictatorships the more destabilised both the ME and Europe become.

kettlehead

Nodin wrote: »

'Screw your liberal facts, MUSLIMS'.

We saw a total of roughly a million muslims this year, I think, in the middle of a massive refugee crisis, entering an area with a population over 540 million (afaik).

The article is outdated. It is five years old at this stage. A millions plus Muslims entered Germany alone this year, btw.

If millions of people with an extremely high fertility rate enter a region with an aging population and below replacement birth levels, then they will slowly but surely become the majority in swathes of this region.

Do you dispute this?

KERSPLAT!

We've had enough immigration/immigrant/Muslim threads thanks. There are more appropriate forums for this to be discussed.