Whipping in horse racing

c_man

Have the racing on RTE on in the background, that whipping can look harsh. Is there really a need for it? I know there's punishment for excessive use but is that enough? Should it be banned completely?

Sheeps

theyre just horses

Inspector Coptoor

There is a need for it.
They get banned for excessive use.
The horses are bred for racing.
Whipping makes them go faster.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

RobertKK

I am going to buy a horse and call it Fifty Shades of Grey.

janes1234

Sheeps wrote:

theyre just horses

?

suicide_circus

Horses crave discipline

stimpson

Ever try to put a horse on the naughty step?

freewheeler

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

There is a need for it.
They get banned for excessive use.
The horses are bred for racing.
Whipping makes them go faster.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I'm sure that as far as the horses are concerned it IS broke...

It's very necessarily to get horses to focus. They are a big, strong animal a few lashes of a whip is no more than a reminder to them.

freewheeler

Sheeps wrote: »

theyre just horses

Yep and we're 'just' people...they deserve respect too

kneemos

Prefer to whisk.

freewheeler

Mavis Faithful Cloverleaf wrote: »

It's very necessarily to get horses to focus. They are a big, strong animal a few lashes of a whip is no more than a reminder to them.

therefore..ban the whip...all horses equally focussed = level playing field yes?

Ave Sodalis

Let me start by saying that most of the time, you're not looking at a horse being hit with a stick. You are looking at the stick being waved. Jockeys have a count down, such as 1, 2, 3, slap. A lot of the time, especially with more experienced horses, the count down doesn't even get finished.

The reason a whip is used is purely psychological. If for example, you were told to hold onto something with the same grip strength for a period of time, what you would find is that although you think you have the same grip, you will actually lessen your grip over time. Same with horses. You may think you're going up to speed but you actually start to slow. A whip is there like as a reminder to keep their pace because a jockey can't use their legs much. As above, a lot of the time, the count down doesn't finish because a horse would learn what the whip is for and would pick up their pace at the sight of it. Any jockey worth their weight will not hit a horse who responded already. It's completely counter-productive and would be detrimental to a horse's training.

There are very strict rules on whip use and race officials do not hmm or haw much over enforcing them. Even a sniff of misconduct and you're dragged up in front of them and under trial. No jockey wants to do that.

Also, a racing bat doesn't hurt. At all. They're short and broad. There's specific rules about their design too. If they don't hurt a person, they sure aren't going to hurt an animal 10 times a person's weight. They're there are a reminder.

freewheeler

freewheeler wrote: »

therefore..ban the whip...all horses equally focussed = level playing field yes?

No it wouldn't, some horses need the whip others didn't so much. You would not get the I'll potential from many horses without it.

Sit back and enjoy the great racing that's been on and don't worry yourself with things like the whip.

Baron Kurtz

I'm gonna buy a jockey, get on his back and whip him if he doesn't get me to where I want to go in time.

razorblunt

Let me whip whip.
Let me neigh neigh.
Do the stanky leg.

_Brian

Jockeys should get the exact number of whips themselves after the race.
Bet they would cut down on the use then.

Fleawuss

Thinly veiled whipping thread

Fleawuss

Baron Kurtz wrote: »

I'm gonna buy a jockey, get on his back and whip him if he doesn't get me to where I want to go in time.

Are they in the sales?

_Brian

Fleawuss wrote: »

Are they in the sales?

Half size so half price

Ave Sodalis

_Brian wrote: »

Jockeys should get the exact number of whips themselves after the race.
Bet they would cut down on the use then.

Given that

sup_dude wrote: »

Also, a racing bat doesn't hurt. At all.

How do you suppose that would happen?

_Brian

_Brian wrote: »

Jockeys should get the exact number of whips themselves after the race.
Bet they would cut down on the use then.

How many times to people need it explained to them that a horse is a big strong animal and there is no comparison between what a horse feels when getting a smack of a whip and what a person would feel.

That said a lash of a racing whip wouldn't really hurt a person either.

Baron Kurtz

Fleawuss wrote: »

Are they in the sales?

I haven't been yet but they'd have to be going for at least half-price. Anything that size would have to go at a cut down price.

padd b1975

They don't feel it, relax people!

blade1

Fleawuss wrote: »

Thinly veiled whipping thread

Where is the veil?
It clearly says whipping in the title.

freewheeler

Mavis Faithful Cloverleaf wrote: »

How many times to people need it explained to them that a horse is a big strong animal and there is no comparison between what a horse feels when getting a smack of a whip and what a person would feel.

That said a lash of a racing whip wouldn't really hurt a person either.

So if they don't feel it...then whats the point in whipping them? Anyway you can't possibly know whether or not they do??

freewheeler

padd b1975 wrote: »

They don't feel it, relax people!

And you know this how??

Ave Sodalis

freewheeler wrote: »

So if they don't feel it...then whats the point in whipping them? Anyway you can't possibly know whether or not they do??

They can feel. Not once was it said they don't feel it in that post.

Yes, you can possibly know whether or not they do.

freewheeler

sup_dude wrote: »

They can feel. Not once was it said they don't feel it in that post.

Yes, you can possibly know whether or not they do.

ok so they do feel it....but it doesn't hurt? how do we know this?

Baron Kurtz

It looks a bit funny to me, the sport. Some little fellas aboard an animal hopping over fences . I suppose you could manufacture a reason to find any other sport funny though.

padd b1975

freewheeler wrote: »

And you know this how??

Mr.Ed told me at a showbiz bash years ago.

Seriously though, as has been earlier, there's strict guidelines regarding the type and use of whips allowed. I think some posters may be getting confused with the type of whipping experienced on the old S&M scene...

Ave Sodalis

freewheeler wrote: »

ok so they do feel it....but it doesn't hurt? how do we know this?

Because horses have a pain response and horses as highly sprung as a fully fit Thoroughbred have bigger pain responses. There's also specific physiological reactions that can be measured. So basically, we know this because it can be measured.

RayM

_Brian wrote: »

Jockeys should get the exact number of whips themselves after the race.
Bet they would cut down on the use then.

"They're only jockeys"

keith16

freewheeler wrote: »

And you know this how??

Just think of horses as big dogs.

keith16

Baron Kurtz wrote: »

It looks a bit funny to me, the sport. Some little fellas aboard an animal hopping over fences . I suppose you could manufacture a reason to find any other sport funny though.

A load of men, running around a pitch, kicking a bag of wind.

freewheeler

sup_dude wrote: »

Because horses have a pain response and horses as highly sprung as a fully fit Thoroughbred have bigger pain responses. There's also specific physiological reactions that can be measured. So basically, we know this because it can be measured.

OK so we have established that horses that are whipped DO feel pain. So basically the horses are beaten to make them run faster..thats it..in a nutshell...

Qualitymark

There are no tiny jockeys on greyhounds whipping them, but they run pretty fast.

Ave Sodalis

freewheeler wrote: »

OK so we have established that horses that are whipped DO feel pain. So basically the horses are beaten to make them run faster in a nutshell...

No. We've established that horses that are whipped can feel the whip. We have not established that they feel pain and we have not established that they are beaten... Do you work for PETA?

Bulbous Salutation

I'd be far more concerned for horses near halting sites than I would be for National Hunt and Flat horses.

Race horses are incredibly well treated. Owned, trained and ridden by people who genuinely love horses.

Ave Sodalis

Qualitymark wrote: »

There are no tiny jockeys on greyhounds whipping them, but they run pretty fast.

Jockeys don't whip horses to make them run. Greyhounds chase a rabbit. Horses don't chase anything except maybe a bucket of feed. However, if you put a bucket of feed in front of them, it would end up in a fight with any mare there given a distinct advantage.

Baron Kurtz

keith16 wrote: »

A load of men, running around a pitch, kicking a bag of wind.

Yeah, exactly . All sorts of humour can be derived.

No animals involved though. Years ago they probably killed an animal to kick said bag of wind around. It has evolved unlike a paucity of some sports still with a draconian feel attached to it.

freewheeler

sup_dude wrote: »

No. We've established that horses that are whipped can feel the whip. We have not established that they feel pain and we have not established that they are beaten... Do you work for PETA?

Unless i'm really missing something here to 'beat' something is to strike it..usually with an object (a whip perhaps?)

My other point is that YOU don't know if they feel pain.

No i don't work for PETA what relevance does that have??

freewheeler

sup_dude wrote: »

Jockeys don't whip horses to make them run. Greyhounds chase a rabbit. Horses don't chase anything except maybe a bucket of feed. However, if you put a bucket of feed in front of them, it would end up in a fight with any mare there given a distinct advantage.

'Jockeys don't whip horses to make them run'
this just gets better!!! so why do they whip them then...for fun??
it always looks to me like the horses are running as fast as they can anyway??

Ave Sodalis

freewheeler wrote: »

Unless i'm really missing something here to 'beat' something is to strike it..usually with an object (a whip perhaps?)

My other point is that YOU don't know if they feel pain.

No i don't work for PETA what relevance does that have??

To beat implies cruelty and purposeful. The dictionary definition is to hit violently and repeatedly. So no, horses are not beat.

I do know. Something to do with a decade or so of experience with horses. Although, most of my racing experience comes from my four year BSc in Equine Science. So yes, I know.

Because your posts are coming across like the hysterical, ignorant nonsense they spout. Ignoring the facts, and twisting the truth to justify your statement.

Ave Sodalis

freewheeler wrote: »

'Jockeys don't whip horses to make them run'
this just gets better!!! so why do they whip them then...for fun??
it always looks to me like the horses are running as fast as they can anyway??

Any horse that doesn't run will not be a racehorse. There is no if, buts or maybes about this. A whip is not to make the horse run.

"It looks to you" seems to be the problem here, seeing as you have demonstratably no idea what you're talking about.

Help!!!!

freewheeler wrote: »

Unless i'm really missing something here to 'beat' something is to strike it..usually with an object (a whip perhaps?)

My other point is that YOU don't know if they feel pain.

No i don't work for PETA what relevance does that have??

Best thing to do is go for a visit to your nearest stables. See how the horses are treated, meet the people who look after the horses. You will see that the horses are treated like part of the family that no one involved in horse racing wants to see the horses hurt.
If horse racing was banned there would be no need for horses so you would see less horses

freewheeler

sup_dude wrote: »

To beat implies cruelty and purposeful. The dictionary definition is to hit violently and repeatedly. So no, horses are not beat.

I do know. Something to do with a decade or so of experience with horses. Although, most of my racing experience comes from my four year BSc in Equine Science. So yes, I know.

Because your posts are coming across like the hysterical, ignorant nonsense they spout. Ignoring the facts, and twisting the truth to justify your statement.

i challenge anyone (including an 'expert' like you) to watch a race maybe the 2011 grand national perhaps? Ballabriggs was hit 14 TIMES between the last fence and the line..would this not qualify as hit violently and repeatedly?? just asking like?
Don't know how i'm coming across as hysterical or ignorant i am quite knowledgable about the subject actually! the only one getting hysterical is you and you still haven't given me any answers to the questions i asked....maybe because the truth hurts??

freewheeler

Help!!!! wrote: »

Best thing to do is go for a visit to your nearest stables. See how the horses are treated, meet the people who look after the horses. You will see that the horses are treated like part of the family that no one involved in horse racing wants to see the horses hurt.
If horse racing was banned there would be no need for horses so you would see less horses

You assume that i don't know how horses are treated? big assumption to make!!!
anyway we are not discussing the everyday treatment of horses here...just whether or not beating them around a racecourse is ethically right!

Ave Sodalis

freewheeler wrote: »

i challenge anyone (including an 'expert' like you) to watch a race maybe the 2011 grand national perhaps? Ballabriggs was hit 14 TIMES between the last fence and the line..would this not qualify as hit violently and repeatedly?? just asking like?
Don't know how i'm coming across as hysterical or ignorant i am quite knowledgable about the subject actually! the only one getting hysterical is you and you still haven't given me any answers to the questions i asked....maybe because the truth hurts??

And Maguire got a ban for doing so...

What questions?

Ave Sodalis

freewheeler wrote: »

You assume that i don't know how horses are treated? big assumption to make!!!
anyway we are not discussing the everyday treatment of horses here...just whether or not beating them around a racecourse is ethically right!

You have demonstrated absolutely zero knowledge. In fact, you've only demonstrated that you have absolutely zero knowledge.

freewheeler

sup_dude wrote: »

You have demonstrated absolutely zero knowledge. In fact, you've only demonstrated that you have absolutely zero knowledge.

haha spoken like someone with zero answers..