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PV Solar system-the craziest DIY project probable

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,832 ✭✭✭air


    15c/kWh is pretty good
    It is, but remember it's only 5c effectively at the time of the year when​ you need it as you'll also have a heat demand then. Also it's available 24/7 unlike night rate.
    The PSO is an interesting issue. Regular people would be forsaking a lot of convenience and reliability to save €220 a year. That's why I don't see it
    People spend thousands on cars to save a few hundred a year on motor tax so I wouldn't rule it out!
    Remember on a new build you would also save on connection costs, certification etc so the capital cost would be reduced further.
    The import/export meter ESB install records every 15 minutes
    Glad to hear it, I hope a tariff will be offered to consumers then that is at least market price + transport / network costs, it appears everything is in place and up and running already to facilitate this.

    No matter what happens, the metering arrangements really matter for the future. Nothing will really work properly without proper metering if you ask me.
    No debate about it.


  • Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Unless your garden is big enough for a wind turbine, we are decades away from being able to go off the grid in Ireland.


    I'd be thinking field not garden. Turbulence.
    I've been living off-grid in Ireland for years and I'm not the only one.

    I think taking a gridder house off grid is the stumbling block.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭rolion


    Goooood Sunday afternoon...and a sunny one !
    Another milestone reached:3 (3,000) MWh generated by my lovely LG panels.

    As per attached,few facts that may help anyone to take on the path to greener and sunny energy.ABB generate fifures and reports of the iBooster.

    423725.jpg

    423726.jpg


    To prove that the Earth is not flat,have a look at a perfect Sun journey in the blue sky. That day, it generated 32KWh and used only 5...

    423727.jpg


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,976 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Mine are going on tomorrow please god.
    3kw system only bit hopefully it helps.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,815 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    Have a look at the prices on the days when there are lots of sun.

    https://www.eire.com/electricity-price/

    A lot of the days when you have strong sun, the daytime price is going quite low. This is not an argument against solar of course, it is simply a result of there being solar electricity available on the grid already.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,976 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Have a look at the prices on the days when there are lots of sun.

    https://www.eire.com/electricity-price/

    A lot of the days when you have strong sun, the daytime price is going quite low. This is not an argument against solar of course, it is simply a result of there being solar electricity available on the grid already.

    But am I correct in saying that as a residential end user, it makes no difference... we still pay the same kw rate as if it was cloudy and raining?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,815 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    Yes, in short, you do.

    But if you were able to sell to the grid (and there was no PSO subsidy) the price you would get would reflect the fact that the price of electricity was low at that particular time. (This willl certainly be possible within the lifetime of today's PV installs, and probably by 2021).

    Also, if you were able to buy from the grid for the market price for the particular half-hour, then there might not be much advantage in installing your own PV panels. You would still be doing just as much good for the planet, but without needing to buy anything or put anything on your roof.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,976 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Yes, in short, you do.

    But if you were able to sell to the grid (and there was no PSO subsidy) the price you would get would reflect the fact that the price of electricity was low at that particular time. (This willl certainly be possible within the lifetime of today's PV installs, and probably by 2021).

    Also, if you were able to buy from the grid for the market price for the particular half-hour, then there might not be much advantage in installing your own PV panels. You would still be doing just as much good for the planet, but without needing to buy anything or put anything on your roof.

    Understand you now, if they bring in a FIT again in the future, or re-open the existing one to new customers then the wholesale price is cheap during the sun peak times anyway.

    I don't think we, as residential customers will ever get to buy at wholesale, so generating your own portion will always have its benefits.

    its like saying that if the garage beside you ever sells you petrol for wholesale price, then no point driving to the next garage to save on the cheaper retail price.

    But I do get your point now, thanks.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,815 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    To continue your analogy you would not expect the petrol station to pay you more for petrol than they can get it from a distributor for!

    The lowest tariffs for energy in the domestic market are actually not far off the average wholesale price (though the supplier still makes money off standing charges). Of course retail tariffs do not reflect the hourly ebbs and flows.

    It is not inconceivable that there will be a tariff available that closely tracks the wholesale price though.

    Of course there are other costs too, like transmission and distribution. These are pretty 'flat' at the moment, about 5c /kWh. But in the future these may go much higher at peak times and much lower off peak.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭rolion


    kceire wrote: »
    Mine are going on tomorrow please god.
    3kw system only bit hopefully it helps.

    Congrats and welcome to PVs world !
    Can you describe what you get installed,please !?
    A 3Kw installed power,based on its location and exposure should give you a nice return daytime,aroud 2ish.

    Based on my experience... we use the major appliances only day time / sunny time AND only one at the time,so that we will not go over the average 3KW power demand / consumption to cover the PVs generation.Well,almost every time...
    When excess PV power generated,is diverted to hot water cylinder.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,976 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    rolion wrote: »
    Congrats and welcome to PVs world !
    Can you describe what you get installed,please !?
    A 3Kw installed power,based on its location and exposure should give you a nice return daytime,aroud 2ish.

    Based on my experience... we use the major appliances only day time / sunny time AND only one at the time,so that we will not go over the average 3KW power demand / consumption to cover the PVs generation.Well,almost every time...
    When excess PV power generated,is diverted to hot water cylinder.

    10x300w panels.
    Due South facing roof.
    Immersion Divertor also.

    I'll have to try setting the delays on the dishwasher etc to go on while im in work :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭rolion


    WELL...well, i thought i'm never going to see that here, on these lands..

    ZERO production in a single day and now,i have a record of 0.01KW generated so far...looks promissing !
    Wondering what the small users or big farms on the continennt are doing under simillar conditions !?

    I guess time to go out there and enjoy the snow...

    444131.jpg


    444133.jpg

    444132.jpg



    WHAT is very peculliar is that the solar tubes ...still have some warm parameter up on the roof,according to my report is at 16 Degrees top of the Collector !??

    444134.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,832 ✭✭✭air


    What hardware do you have for interfacing to your Resol controller out of interest?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,976 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Even with the snow, I’ve gwneratwd 1.33kwh so far today.


  • Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Depending on the meter you are using and how buried the panels are those readings could quite easily be consumption, not generation.

    100W self-consumption for inverter idle sound right? (Usually in the region of 30W)
    Not an issue with DC coupling though.

    Alternating voltage current meters are not direction sensitive.

    Inverter meters are usually tuned. I always install external ones for the truth and they're more often than not more accurate and less expensive.

    What is the assumed voltage of the owl meter Rolion? I see it doesn't measure this..just current.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭rolion


    air wrote: »
    What hardware do you have for interfacing to your Resol controller out of interest?

    What system do you have ?
    Mine is a Resol controller linked via VBUs to a DL2 data logger and out on the network.


    444794.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭rolion


    Depending on the meter you are using and how buried the panels are those readings could quite easily be consumption, not generation.

    100W self-consumption for inverter idle sound right? (Usually in the region of 30W)
    Not an issue with DC coupling though.

    Alternating voltage current meters are not direction sensitive.

    Inverter meters are usually tuned. I always install external ones for the truth and they're more often than not more accurate and less expensive.

    What is the assumed voltage of the owl meter Rolion? I see it doesn't measure this..just current.


    As always,your knowledge amazes me...thanks !

    Checked the inverter and it looks like the PV panels are "supplying" enough voltage but not enough A type "juice" to get the flow enough moving.
    Scarry low temperatures but working fine so far.


    444795.jpg

    444797.jpg

    444798.jpg

    444796.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,832 ✭✭✭air


    rolion wrote: »
    What system do you have ?
    Mine is a Resol controller linked via VBUs to a DL2 data logger and out on the network.

    Thanks, I think my controller is the same one which is why I asked. I'll have to investigate further.
    Actually scratch that, I had a look and the logger is about £200. I might look into DIY intefacing at some point.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭rolion


    air wrote: »
    Thanks, I think my controller is the same one which is why I asked. I'll have to investigate further.
    Actually scratch that, I had a look and the logger is about £200. I might look into DIY intefacing at some point.


    Not worth it...and almost impossible.
    Been there years ago...i even had Resol SDK trying to customise some parameters.I went with the basic simple one...
    And,cost is not an issue for a highly specialised solar tubes system...come on,i will have had as the last reason ! :)

    Have a look at this site H E R E ..plenty of info, examples and maybe something to get you running.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,832 ✭✭✭air


    Ah, I think I'll stick with my existing monitoring system - does hot water come out of the taps in sunny weather? If so, all good :)

    Seriously, for me expensive monitoring systems aren't really justifiable. I keep a close eye on things anyway out of interest.
    I only just picked up a legacy web monitoring gateway for my PV inverters last week. I waited until I could get it for €10 instead of paying hundreds.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭rolion


    air wrote: »
    Ah, I think I'll stick with my existing monitoring system - does hot water come out of the taps in sunny weather? If so, all good :)

    Seriously, for me expensive monitoring systems aren't really justifiable. I keep a close eye on things anyway out of interest.

    Is your well informed decision, i respect that.
    Please see "monitoring" functions of a proper setup system:
    Thanks.


    444831.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,832 ✭✭✭air


    So there's a €39 annual fee for their web interface also? Is this mandatory or can you just review the logs locally?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭rolion


    air wrote: »
    So there's a €39 annual fee for their web interface also? Is this mandatory or can you just review the logs locally?

    There is a free version and a paid one.
    Cant show you the differences as i am logged in with the Pro but take your time and review it on that link.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭rolion


    A screenshot of my notifications:

    Freezing System - hmmm,maybe;
    Cylinder over 60 degrees - very useful for my bath(sss) in the sumer;
    Cylinder Full warm - both sensors must be over 55 degrees,so that i can turnoff boiler or prepare for a full jacuzzi.


    Next step..love it if i can do it is to integrate more sensors and few valves and monitor / command the DHW with complex system external factors / pre-heating / dumping .But on my madness i will need to repalce the controller as this one has no more inputs,comes with default 4 in + 2 out.

    444836.jpg


    444835.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭rolion


    Thought a will update as system have reached a milestone... 10MWh produced and almost 3MWh exported to a greener environment.

    What will I change if I could go back in time and with today's mind and technology !?
    I had maybe designed/implemented the system to do :

    -a backup for night usage (some sort of battery) to keep the 500Wh base load of the house ,from 10pm until 8am,next day. Did the maths and unfortunately, still not worth it with prices today and the ABB inverter will need to be changed. Years ago,that was the only option, no hybrids or similar to Irish grid.

    -some sort of a dual hot cylinder setup so that once the primary 300l cylinder is hot at 80 degrees, to switch to diverter second output and heat the 150l puffer / smaller cylinder that pre-feeds the bigger one.

    -more panels in the back, probable from 8 current to 12 at least. That will give me enough juice to charge the EV nicely when parked at home.

    -a tracker, my dream to get a tracker but practical impossible in the today's residential estate physical constraints.


    Otherwise, looking forward to 11 and 15 and 20...

    480847.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,881 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Congrats on the 10MWh milestone :cool:

    I'm new to this thread. Fascinating to see how much hardware prices have dropped in less than 3.5 years since the OP!

    €1500 ABB inverter, I paid €250 for my Solis (similar output)
    €300 per panel, I paid €100 per panel

    My 4kwp system cost roughly a bit over €2k installed (DIY + paid €350 for two roofers for the guts of a day + friendly electrician hooked it up for free). Just done my first MWh, hopefully many more to come...


  • Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭Coltrane


    Unkel, congrats on the PV-install and hope you enjoy as much as I do!

    Respect also for your rigour in always calculating ROI on potential renewable-installs. Particularly important in a field where there's quite a lot of muddy-thinking around the fabrication processes for 'green' installs: their often hugely damaging environmental footprints can be overlooked in marketing or our own urge to do the right thing.

    But, I think we need somehow to factor what I'll call environmental Clean-up/Mitigation Costs ("C") in our ROI-calcs. It's increasingly clear that we and our children will each individually have to pay for C in the form of taxes, higher food and water costs, flood defences, border controls, etc. Often we already do - with a bit of help from the State - as early adopters of renewables. C's amount is of course unknowable, but it ain't zero! So annual savings/capital cost does not equal ROI. We need to factor an estimated present value of future clean-up costs C.

    My own sense is that C will be massive. There are as we all know many guestimates out there such as the recently linked draft climate change action plan for Ireland which references (see Irish Times articles, I can't post a link as a new member) projected costs which dwarf the children's hospital and rural broadband.

    My own implementation of this is that I buy whichever renewables I can afford, as my contribution. In my calcs C dwarfs saved annual energy costs. I try my hardest to afford renewables. I run ROI-calcs because that was my career, and as a kind of filter of which techs have best reached viability. I try to research the all-in environmental footprint as best I can (here, my HP barely passed muster - I could see that there was no way I'd save money on it compared to natural gas, but what troubled me far more was the calcing of the true environmental contribution given the inefficiency of the current grid which powers the HP when the sun goes down). And to avoid waste.

    Just the thought and contribution to the debate. I'm kinda stating the obvious, but don't think I've seen the value of C debated all that much.


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