Peyton Manning Accused of HGH Use

Langdon Alger

I'm surprised this isn't getting more coverage

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25427303/report-clinic-mailed-hgh-to-peyton-manning-in-2011

JaMarcusHustle

Langdon Alger wrote: »

I'm surprised this isn't getting more coverage

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25427303/report-clinic-mailed-hgh-to-peyton-manning-in-2011

I'm not surprised at all.

frostie500

It's going to be very interesting over the next couple of weeks when more of this comes to light. I think that the use of HGH is way more prominent in all sports than we've seen positive tests for. If you look at football, rugby, american football they're all being played at a higher speed with bigger, stronger athletes than in the past and the use of HGH would obviously be hugely beneficial in allowing the body to recover from injuries and fatigue.

I'd hope that Manning didn't dope but nothing about doping would surprise me at this stage seeing all that's gone on over the last 10-15 years.

Paully D

Worthy of a dedicated thread IMO.

Peyton Manning has been accused of Human Growth Hormone (HGH) use in an investigative report to air on Al-Jazeera tonight, first reported in the Huffington Post late last night.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/peyton-manning-human-growth-hormone_567f16e4e4b0b958f6599440

An Indianapolis anti-aging clinic supplied quarterback Peyton Manning with human growth hormone, a performance-enhancing drug banned by the NFL, a pharmacist who once worked at the clinic asserts in a new special report from Al Jazeera’s Investigative Unit.

The report, “The Dark Side,” is the result of a monthslong investigation in which Liam Collins, a British hurdler, went undercover in an attempt to expose the widespread nature of performance-enhancing drugs in global sports. As a cover story, Collins tells medical professionals tied to the trade of performance-enhancing drugs that he is hoping for one last shot at glory at the 2016 Olympics in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. Manning is just one of many high-profile players the report names and raises questions about.

Manning issued a statement Saturday night strongly denying the allegations, claiming that "whoever said this is making stuff up."

The Denver Broncos also responded to the allegations against Manning, releasing the following statement:

"Knowing Peyton Manning and everything he stands for, the Denver Broncos support him 100 percent. These are false claims made to Al Jazeera, and we don't believe the report.

Peyton is rightfully outraged by the allegations, which he emphatically denied to our organization and which have been publicly renounced by the source who initially provided them.

Throughout his NFL career, particularly during his four seasons with the Broncos, Peyton has shown nothing but respect for the game. Our organization is confident Peyton does things the right way, and we do not find this story to be credible."

As part of the investigation, Collins connected with Charlie Sly, a pharmacist based in Austin, Texas, who worked at the Guyer Institute, the Indiana-based anti-aging clinic, in 2011.

Manning missed the 2011 season, when he was a member of the Indianapolis Colts, after undergoing neck surgery. In the documentary, Sly tells Collins, who is taking secret video of his interactions, that he was “part of a medical team that helped [Manning] recover” from the surgery. Sly alleges that the clinic mailed growth hormone and other drugs to Manning’s wife, Ashley Manning, so that the quarterback’s name was never attached to them.

“All the time we would be sending Ashley Manning drugs,” Sly says in the video. “Like growth hormone, all the time, everywhere, Florida. And it would never be under Peyton’s name, it would always be under her name.”
Manning and his wife also came to the clinic after its normal business hours for intravenous treatments, Sly tells Collins on the undercover video.

Manning left the Colts after the 2011 season to sign with Denver. The NFL banned human growth hormone in 1991, but did not begin testing for it until 2014. No player has ever tested positive.

Manning’s agent denied the details of the report to Al Jazeera, calling Sly’s assertions “outrageous and wrong.” But the statement does not deny that growth hormones were shipped to Manning's wife, only insisting that such matters were a matter of medical privacy.

Manning “has never done what this person is suggesting,” his agent told Al Jazeera. “The treatment he received at the Guyer Institute was provided on the advice of his physician and with the knowledge of team doctors and trainers.”

“Any medical treatment received by Ashley is a private matter of hers, her doctor, and her family,” the agent said.

The credibility of the report hinges largely on whether Sly should be believed, or whether he's simply concocting stories to impress Collins. Several details lend significant credibility to Sly's assertions.

First, Sly and the ring he is associated with do, in fact, obtain drugs for Collins, which the network says it retained as evidence.

In a stunning scene, Taylor Teagarden, an eight-year MLB veteran, appears in one of the undercover videos, openly discussing his use of performance-enhancing drugs during the previous season.

Al Jazeera confirmed that Sly did work at the anti-aging clinic that treated Manning; it is difficult to imagine how Sly would have had knowledge of any arrangement to ship drugs to Manning's wife if he were not operating with genuine insider knowledge. (Sly also describes an interaction with Manning, telling Collins that the quarterback is “really cool if you just sit down with him.”)

Collins, in some ways, was the perfect athlete to put at the center of the operation. He's no stranger to the shade, having himself been tied up in a fraud scam in recent years.

Beyond the allegations against Manning, the report calls into question the effectiveness of testing regimes meant to prevent performance-enhancing drug use in professional sports, from American leagues to the Olympics.
Collins’ undercover quest took him from the Bahamas, where he connected with a doctor that claimed to supply performance-enhancing drugs to Bahamian Olympic athletes, to Canada, where he met naturopathic physician Brandon Spletzer and pharmacist Chad Robertson, who devised a “cutting edge” drug program for Collins that included up to 10 injections each day.
Collins then connected with Sly, who has “taken smart drugs to a whole new level,” according to Spletzer.

“The Dark Side” paints a picture of an underground marketplace where athletes can easily obtain drugs that are hard to detect even with sophisticated drug tests like those implemented by MLB, the NFL and the Olympics. And it raises questions about how serious the owners of professional sports teams are about rooting out drug use, which can make the games more exciting and profitable, while doing damage to the bodies of players, not owners.

“No one’s got caught, because the system’s so easy to beat,” Robertson, the pharmacist, brags to Collins. “And it still is, that’s the sad fact. I can take a guy with average genetics and make him a world champion.”

Robertson designed a program for Collins that included prescription fertility and hormone drugs, other substances labeled as “not for human consumption” and illegal drugs. Sly, meanwhile, preached the effectiveness of Delta-2, a hormone supplement that is “steroidal in nature” but is not an anabolic steroid, according to online product descriptions.

“There's a bunch of football players who take this, and a bunch of baseball players who take it too," Sly tells Collins in the documentary.

“Delta-2 is not for use by anybody subject to performance-enhancing drug tests,” state online reviews for the product. Major League Baseball has banned the drug explicitly.

The report does not link Manning to Delta-2, but Sly and Robertson name multiple football players as customers, including Green Bay Packers linebacker Mike Neal. Neal, Sly says, connected him with multiple teammates, including defensive end Julius Peppers. Pittsburgh Steelers linebacker James Harrison is another NFL player he has supplied, Sly says.

Sly also names Philadelphia Phillies first baseman Ryan Howard and Washington Nationals infielder Ryan Zimmerman as players who received the drug from him. He also claims in the report he gave drugs to Mike Tyson.
Delta-2 is designed to stay ahead of drug tests, Sly explains on video. He tells Collins that he provided the drug to Dustin Keller, a tight end who last played for the Miami Dolphins and allegedly used Delta-2 while in college at Purdue University and then before the NFL Combine, according to Sly. (Keller did not respond to Al Jazeera’s requests for comment).

“We just used Delta-2 because it wasn’t detectable,” Sly says.
Sly also says that he provided Clay Matthews, Green Bay’s Pro Bowl linebacker, with the prescription painkiller Percocet to help him deal with pain before at least one game. He also brags in one undercover video that Matthews texted him in an attempt to obtain Toradol, a powerful painkiller that is banned in many countries but not in the United States.

Harrison, Zimmerman and Howard all denied using the drugs to the network Neal, Peppers, Matthews and Tyson did not respond to Al Jazeera’s request for comment.

Robertson, the pharmacist, and Spletzer, the neuropathic physician, did not respond to Al Jazeera’s request for comment. Sly, when pressed by Al Jazeera, backtracked, saying that his claims about supplying the drugs to athletes were “false and incorrect.”

Sly has since backtracked, albeit in a video that makes one of those hostage statements where they're reading out what the terrorist tells them to, believable:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sf2-8V0K3oM

The full report is available to view here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJRPxmTuxoI

Hazys

HGH use, pfft

At least he wasn't possible generally aware of possibly intentionally slightly deflating footballs.

I'm sure there will be a 100 day, million dollar investigation into this and it will be brought all the way to the Supreme Court too. Lol

Will there ever be a day when a story here does not prompt a reaction referring to "Inflategate"?!

adrian522

Only the second post when someone brings up deflategate. Surprising.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Only took the 3rd and 4th poster to moan about deflatgate and not address the topic.

I find the story non creditable. Innocent until proven guilty in my book, and there's no evidence against Manning.

frostie500

I've merged the initial posts from the general banter thread into this thread just to keep everything together. It'd be great if all of us can just talk about the topic at hand and not other investigations. Deflatgate happened and there's enough threads related to it so keep discussion on it in those threads. This is a different topic on Manning and his alleged doping.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Hardly a big surprise is it.Surely a very high percentage of NFL players are on drugs it looks far too punishing a sport for there not to be a high degree of PED use.

I'd say every single major sport is riddled with it anyway.

adrian522

Non story, the NFL doesn't seem to care about performance enhancing drugs, as evidenced by the slap on the wrist punishments they hand out.

If the NFL signed up to the Wada code I'd have some confidence that they would want to sort out the use of PEDs but it doesn't seem like they do.

I seriously doubt Manning is the only one using HGH in the NFL.

JaMarcusHustle

Interesting enough, when pushed on whether HGH was sent to Mannings wife, the argument is that "her medical/health matters are private". Which is obviously true, but why not just deny it?

adrian522

https://twitter.com/Scienceofsport/status/681167382182793216

Wasn't "deer antler spray" hgh and legal in the nfl until recently?

Inquitus

It's seems reasonably clear he was guilty on initial assessment, never denied his wife was sent meds and called it a private matter, no use for her to take HGH, but as others have mentioned its rife in American sports and he's no more guilty than the next 500, sad way for his career to end though, presuming Brock's the starter going forwards. Sets the NFL passing record, gets benched, gets a drug shaming and never plays again, not on account of the drugs but the natural end of his career.

Rented Mule

http://www.120sports.com/video/v160564828/1on1-with-deborah-davies

Interview with journalist Deborah Davies who broke the story who is defending her story on Manning. This is in reply to Charlie Sly recanting his testimony that Manning received HGH from the Guyer Institute.

frostie500

Biggest issue is that HGH wasn't tested at the time that Manning is accused of using HGH. The NFL isn't signed up to the WADA code (as far as I know) so that means that if there isn't a test for HGH and there isnt the same list of banned substances...did Manning do anything outside of the rules of the NFL if he did take HGH?

Whosthis

Also interesting to note that he has a massive dip in form the season after testing is introduced.

Whosthis

Whosthis wrote: »

Also interesting to note that he has a massive dip in form the season after testing is introduced.

He's also old and after a lot of neck surgery in fairness and a lot of people saw him dropping off last year towards the end

Whosthis

Leslie Narrow Schoolmaster wrote: »

He's also old and after a lot of neck surgery in fairness and a lot of people saw him dropping off last year towards the end

The same neck surgeries that should have ended his career but miraculously played on for another 4 seasons? Probably no coincidence. that his form began to drop off towards the end of last season when the NFL started testing for hgh in mid october.

Jolly Red Giant

Inquitus wrote: »

It's seems reasonably clear he was guilty on initial assessment,

On what evidence do you base this 'reasonably clear guilt'?

Inquitus wrote: »

never denied his wife was sent meds and called it a private matter, no use for her to take HGH,

There could be several medical reasons why his wife could have taken HGH - we have no way of knowing what medical conditions she might suffer from

Inquitus wrote: »

but as others have mentioned its rife in American sports and he's no more guilty than the next 500,

There is clearly a problem with players using performance enhancing drugs - but the only players than can be directly accused of using these drugs are players who have failed a drugs test - and there are a significant number of these.

Inquitus wrote: »

sad way for his career to end though, presuming Brock's the starter going forwards. Sets the NFL passing record, gets benched, gets a drug shaming and never plays again, not on account of the drugs but the natural end of his career.

What is sad is that the career of a great player could be tainted by, based on what has emerged so far, what are unfounded allegations - allegations that cannot be substantiated because Manning has never failed a drugs test.

There are many who will claim that Manning has 'questions' to answer - but the reality is that AJ has serious questions to answer. The 'informant' has denied many of the allegations. The Guyer Institute claim that Sly was an intern in 2013 and not in 2011 when Manning was receiving treatment in the facility. etc. etc.

'Investigation' programmes like these are valuable if/when they can produce direct evidence of wrong doing - I do however believe it is inappropriate to engage in accusations such as this against Manning and other athletes when the 'evidence' is based on whistleblowers who are of dubious character and on guilt by association.

Jolly Red Giant

Whosthis wrote: »

Also interesting to note that he has a massive dip in form the season after testing is introduced.

Manning had a massive dip in form because he is old, is a lot slower than he was and has little arm strength - age has simply caught up with him.

Whosthis

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Manning had a massive dip in form because he is old, is a lot slower than he was and has little arm strength - age has simply caught up with him.

Caught up with him very quickly. Almost too quickly, as if there was something helping to stave it off that was suddenly taken away from him.

adrian522

frostie500 wrote: »

Biggest issue is that HGH wasn't tested at the time that Manning is accused of using HGH. The NFL isn't signed up to the WADA code (as far as I know) so that means that if there isn't a test for HGH and there isnt the same list of banned substances...did Manning do anything outside of the rules of the NFL if he did take HGH?

It was still against the rules even if it wasn't tested for. Of course the NFL doesn't sign up to Wada, they hand out cortisone like candy as a means to get players through 16 games in 17 weeks. Wada would require an exemption to administer cortisone.

Also Manning is alleged to have used HGH during the lockout, when technically there no agreement between players and the NFL, so technically they could do what they liked. At the time Manning wasn't even signed with a team so would be virtually impossible to enforce a ban even if all this was true.

Inquitus

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

On what evidence do you base this 'reasonably clear guilt'?


There could be several medical reasons why his wife could have taken HGH - we have no way of knowing what medical conditions she might suffer from


There is clearly a problem with players using performance enhancing drugs - but the only players than can be directly accused of using these drugs are players who have failed a drugs test - and there are a significant number of these.


What is sad is that the career of a great player could be tainted by, based on what has emerged so far, what are unfounded allegations - allegations that cannot be substantiated because Manning has never failed a drugs test.

There are many who will claim that Manning has 'questions' to answer - but the reality is that AJ has serious questions to answer. The 'informant' has denied many of the allegations. The Guyer Institute claim that Sly was an intern in 2013 and not in 2011 when Manning was receiving treatment in the facility. etc. etc.

'Investigation' programmes like these are valuable if/when they can produce direct evidence of wrong doing - I do however believe it is inappropriate to engage in accusations such as this against Manning and other athletes when the 'evidence' is based on whistleblowers who are of dubious character and on guilt by association.

Sorry but I find the defense of "Never having failed a test" a load of complete and utter bollox, from Carl Lewis to Lance Armstrong and beyond it's no indication of innocence. I do agree that Peyton has been tarred with a brush that could apply to most of the NFL within that period which is certainly not fair on him as a person or a future hall of famer.

Jolly Red Giant

Whosthis wrote: »

Caught up with him very quickly. Almost too quickly, as if there was something helping to stave it off that was suddenly taken away from him.

And that is what tends to happen with elite athletes - in the NFL CB's abilities drop off a cliff when age hits and QBs are next in line.

The biggest problem for Manning is lack of arm strength (which was never great) - now he can't throw more than 10yards.

There is zero evidence that Manning has taken anything - the evidence is based on retracted allegations from an individual who was not at the facility when AJ claimed he was and the suggestion that HGH was sent by post to Manning's wife.

By the way - similar allegations were made against a host of other players yet it is Manning who is being headlined.

As for the stuff about Lance Armstrong - Inquitus - Armstrong only began to win after he returned from cancer - he was never elite until he started taking drugs. Armstrong failed four tests in 1999. Manning has been elite his entire career (unless you are suggesting he was always on HGH) and has never failed a test. And you really can't compare what happened with Lewis 30 years ago compared to today. Lewis actually failed a drugs test at the US trials and it was covered up.

Pherekydes

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

As for the stuff about Lance Armstrong - Inquitus - Armstrong only began to win after he returned from cancer - he was never elite until he started taking drugs.

Armstrong won the World Championship in '93 (one of the youngest winners) and La Flèche Wallonne and the Clásica San Sebastián-San Sebastián before he got cancer.

Jolly Red Giant

Pherekydes wrote: »

Armstrong won the World Championship in '93 (one of the youngest winners) and La Flèche Wallonne and the Clásica San Sebastián-San Sebastián before he got cancer.

These races are run of the mill races in cycling - Armstrong won the Tour de France seven times after cancer.

To suggest he was anything other than a half decent cyclist early in his career is turning reality on its head.

Son Of A Vidic

Deleted User wrote: »

Will there ever be a day when a story here does not prompt a reaction referring to "Inflategate"?!

I think you might have it wrong there, becasue Inflate-gate surely refers to Rodgers preference for higher ball pressure...:pac:

Son Of A Vidic

Last year, we barely had a twitter release and a thread was almost set up within seconds in the forum. ESPN and Mortensen started all the psigate nonsense off with wrong information and blatant lies. A mulit-million dollar witch hunt was laughed at and fúcked out of court by a federal judge. So I think Pats fans are well entitled to highlight the double standards and hypocritical behaviour when they see it. Then the Manning story broke and we didn't have a peep out of ESPN or the NFL and some sports writers have already exonerated Manning, simply based on the fact that he said he didn't do anything. The hypocrisy is laughable and it's pity they didn't apply some reason and cop on to their behaviour last year.

As someone working in the medical profession, I found Manning's recovery from serious neck surgery to be bordering on the miraculous. Then in 2013, he goes onto break the TD & Yardage record. Again, it was all the more remarkable considering his age, the very nature of his chronic injury and the intricate nature of the surgery that was involved. Afaic, he was never going to be the player he once was and getting back to 70% would have been a very big ask. Yet he surpassed this benchmark. Then in 2014 the NFL introduced HGH testing and interestingly enough, this correlated with Peyton Manning's dramatic drop in performance. And he's being playing absolute shyte ever since.

I find his very dramatic drop off in his performance since the introduction of HGH testing, to be quite suspicious. I can't remember any QB deteriorating so rapidly from the kind of performance high we witnessed in 2013. To the dramatic collapse we then saw last season and into this one. Farve didn't retire because he suddenly became a crap QB overnight. He retired because he couldn't take the big hits anymore, the concussions or the memory loss he was increasingly suffering from. No QB was ever hit as much as Farve and if he protected himself as well as Manning has, the guy could still be playing. So for me, Manning's drop off in form is certainly atypical and possibly indicative of a enforced change to his pharmaceutical regime. One that has had a sudden and very detrimental effect on his performance.

Jolly Red Giant

And I was accused in the past of trying to throw Manning under a bus - jeez.

D9Male

I don't doubt that most of the lads we watch on Sundays are on PED's. I am a big cycling fan, and it bothers me that people associayte cycling with drugs...In my view if the NFL, FIFA or tennis federations had as serious an anti-doping code, there would be scandals ahoy.

Given Peyton is an all-time great, the news is not a shock. Howevere, the evidence is very flimsy at face value.

Son Of A Vidic

Deleted User wrote: »

I guess the Pats caught cheating yet again was always going to be a bigger story because it's about an entire organisation with a certain...track record. But again, that's been done to death elsewhere, this thread is about an individual.

Since you brought it up, who was caught cheating again? All we know is that a ball boy took a piss and allegedly achieved what is physically impossible to do. All we then witnessed was an attack on Brady. An attack that was not only completely unsubstantiated and devoid of facts. But the report at it's heart was ripped apart by a Federal judge and thrown out of court. So what are you raving about track records for? What track record? The only track record we've seen since 2000 is success and dominance. Followed in equal measure by small mindedness and pettiness. But then again, greatness can have that effect on people. And yes this doesn't belong in this thread, but since you're stirring it up, then expect a justifiable response.

And on the subject of harking back to the past. Let me remind you of the character at the centre of this thread. Peyton Manning sexually assaulted a woman back in 1996 and it was all conveniently buried. Peyton then had to give his victim some hush money to bury the sordid affair. And he still ends up the 1st round draft pick, when the likes of Cam Newton had questions marks over him because of a stolen laptop. But then again, Cam didn't have Archie Manning as his Dad, coupled with his powerful NFL connections.

Since quite a few here became AF fans long after 1996, here's a link to give a summary of the assault.

http://www.inquisitr.com/1486872/peyton-manning-sex-scandal-largely-forgotten-even-with-a-witness/

Looking at that and how it was silenced and then looking at the muted sporting media response to the HGH documentary. It contrast dramatically with the exaggerated media overreactions we saw not so long ago. And all over very minor variations in ball pressure which have no impact on a game. So I think it is perfectly valid to draw a comparison, that highlights the hypocrisy between both reactions. Funnily enough, I completely forgot about the Manning assault and only remembered it when I read it being referenced recently. But there's no doubt in my mind that if Brady or any other QB had of assaulted that woman, then their careers would be over and rightly so.

Deleted User wrote: »

Surely we can just focus on Manning and the cloud this casts on his career?

Yet ironically, here you are taking pot shots at another franchise. Maybe you should heed your own advice in your next post and just focus on Manning and all things Manning related, instead of just sniping.

Personally I had my own private suspicions of Manning's dramatic recovery from his surgery, his record breaking year in 2013 and then the shocking drop off in form once HGH testing was introduced last year. Of course one isn't going to start a thread based merely upon private suspicions. But the recent documentary has now made this a topic of public debate.

helimachoptor

This is about Manning, please lets not turn it into a reason to bash to the Patriots.


As usual, any more off topic posts will be deleted, multiple breaches will lead to a ban

Billy86

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

These races are run of the mill races in cycling - Armstrong won the Tour de France seven times after cancer.

To suggest he was anything other than a half decent cyclist early in his career is turning reality on its head.

I don't follow cycling myself, but how could the World Championships be 'run of the mill'?

Hazys

Deleted User wrote: »

I guess the Pats caught cheating yet again was always going to be a bigger story because it's about an entire organisation with a certain...track record. But again, that's been done to death elsewhere, this thread is about an individual. Surely we can just focus on Manning and the cloud this casts on his career?

The Patriots caught cheating again :rolleyes:

The Patriots have been caught "cheating" as much as any other team in the league (http://yourteamcheats.com) but since the Patriots win and winning gains you enemies, people in the media push the narrative and the people who don't like the Patriots lap it up.

Honestly i don't care if Manning used HGH really, its rampant in the sport and imo it should be allowed under regulated rules as its never going away and the testing will never be sufficient enough to eliminate it. 90% of Pats players are probably on HGH just like the rest of the league.

My problem is how the media and the public have handled the two stories. The reactions to each story has been night and day. ESPN barely posted the Manning story and everybody is coming out defending Manning when the story is more than a little dodgy. Compare that to Deflategate, every body came out to pile on Brady, accusing him of more cheating from bugging locker rooms to warm gatorade and ESPN posting a million articles a day and tons of unverified accusations.

Hell Peter King who also posted the 11 out of 12 balls tweet, came out today and said the stories are not comparable because Manning didn't gain a competitive advantage from HGH use while Brady did by deflating footballs He also said he believes Manning did nothing wrong, while Brady who went to court under oath is not believable. I'm not making this up, its starts at the 5 min mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Zw-2WZ2ZaY Chris Mortenson also said Al Jeezera are not a credible source yet posting the erroneous 11 out of 12 tweet from his source was no issue.

I do understand that this thread is not about Deflate Gate but to be fair the complete opposite reactions to the controversies of the two HOF QBs of our generation is a major talking point. This is my last post on the DeflateGate in this thread tho as its not the main story but its definitely a credible side story.

Billy86

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

I find his very dramatic drop off in his performance since the introduction of HGH testing, to be quite suspicious. I can't remember any QB deteriorating so rapidly from the kind of performance high we witnessed in 2013. To the dramatic collapse we then saw last season and into this one. Farve didn't retire because he suddenly became a crap QB overnight. He retired because he couldn't take the big hits anymore, the concussions or the memory loss he was increasingly suffering from. No QB was ever hit as much as Farve and if he protected himself as well as Manning has, the guy could still be playing. So for me, Manning's drop off in form is certainly atypical and possibly indicative of a enforced change to his pharmaceutical regime. One that has had a sudden and very detrimental effect on his performance.

I reckon there's got to be some truth behind this story, and the timing of Manning's drop off is a very big part of that, but Favre also fell off a cliff himself.

2009: 363 of 531 (68.4%) for 4,202yds (7.9ypa), 33 TDs, 7 INTs, 107.2 QBR
2010: 217 of 358 (60.6%) for 2,509yds (7.0ypa), 11 TDs, 19 INTs, 69.9 QBR

He was benched for the last three games of his career behind Joe Webb, a 6th round rookie project at the time who is now essentially a 'trick player' with the Panthers that basically never sees the field for them (I think he's touched the ball once all season). And had Favre started those three games, he would have got to retire on 300 consecutive starts for his career.

Jolly Red Giant

Billy86 wrote: »

I don't follow cycling myself, but how could the World Championships be 'run of the mill'?

The world championship is a one day road race that favours the sprinters - it is very rare for an elite cyclist to win the world championship.

Jolly Red Giant

Billy86 wrote: »

I reckon there's got to be some truth behind this story, and the timing of Manning's drop off is a very big part of that, but Favre also fell off a cliff himself.

Age catches up with everyone - and with elite players the drop off tends to be dramatic if they stay trying to play the game too long.

C.M. is just using this stuff about Manning to swipe back at all those who have criticised the antics of the Pats organisation over the years and because of the suggestion that Manning rivals Brady - the realty is that if Brady hangs on too long we will see a dramatic drop off in his performance as well (but dare anyone suggest that it might be because of some allegations that Brady was using something - C.M. will have a canary at the thought).

JCTO

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Age catches up with everyone - and with elite players the drop off tends to be dramatic if they stay trying to play the game too long.

I actually think had Manning not injured his throwing shoulder he could have gone longer and performances not dropped dramtically. I actually believed Pre injury him and Brady would last into their 40's still playing at a decent level. Once injuries happen at that age it all changes. Look at Favre that ankle injury he took with the Vikings in the playoffs finished him. He then did his AC Joint in during his final season and that was the nail in the coffin for him.

Sure Brady will decline like any player at that age but staying healthy is key and avoiding surgeries and major injuries is a must. QBs today are protected much more than Favre was back in his day. Not unbelievable for a guy early 40s to still hang in there in his early 40s if he avoided major injury.

Alfred Borden

Al Jazeera already backing down :pac: Hopefully Peyton sues them now.

https://twitter.com/gavrithebruce/status/681821837093896193

eagle eye

That seems more like them clarifying their position than backing down. They are saying that HGH packages were repeatedly sent to Ashley Manning.

How is that backing down? They are just giving people the details and saying 'make your own mind up'.

Inquitus

eagle eye wrote: »

That seems more like them clarifying their position than backing down. They are saying that HGH packages were repeatedly sent to Ashley Manning.

How is that backing down? They are just giving people the details and saying 'make your own mind up'.

Agreed, I watched that interview and its absolutely not backing down, they double down behind their story and clarify some points.

LuckyLloyd

A professional athlete recovering from a serious injury should be using HGH imo - it's a substance with pretty magical properties. I couldn't care less. Use is rife across the NFL, doper sport. I assume they're all using various banned substances and I have no problem with it. That this story has turned out to be bogus is beside the point - the media circus of 'pretend everyone is innocent and ostracise those who are caught' is pure nonsense.

Inquitus

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

A professional athlete recovering from a serious injury should be using HGH imo - it's a substance with pretty magical properties. I couldn't care less. Use is rife across the NFL, doper sport. I assume they're all using various banned substances and I have no problem with it. That this story has turned out to be bogus is beside the point - the media circus of 'pretend everyone is innocent and ostracise those who are caught' is pure nonsense.

This story hasn't turned out to be bogus, even WADA have weighed in and said it should be investigated. That said I agree with you, doping is ingrained in US Sports and its unfair Manning should we brought front and center when we know they are all at it.

Whosthis

Inquitus wrote: »

This story hasn't turned out to be bogus, even WADA have weighed in and said it should be investigated. That said I agree with you, doping is ingrained in US Sports and its unfair Manning should we brought front and center when we know they are all at it.

Manning is a marquee name which puts him front and center of any accusations, he's also a religious zealot and is seen as an all American good guy which would make a fall from grace all the more newsworthy.

helimachoptor

helimachoptor wrote: »

This is about Manning, please lets not turn it into a reason to bash to the Patriots.

As usual, any more off topic posts will be deleted, multiple breaches will lead to a ban

Hazys wrote: »

The Patriots caught cheating again :rolleyes:

The Patriots have been caught "cheating" as much as any other team in the league (http://yourteamcheats.com) but since the Patriots win and winning gains you enemies, people in the media push the narrative and the people who don't like the Patriots lap it up.

Honestly i don't care if Manning used HGH really, its rampant in the sport and imo it should be allowed under regulated rules as its never going away and the testing will never be sufficient enough to eliminate it. 90% of Pats players are probably on HGH just like the rest of the league.

My problem is how the media and the public have handled the two stories. The reactions to each story has been night and day. ESPN barely posted the Manning story and everybody is coming out defending Manning when the story is more than a little dodgy. Compare that to Deflategate, every body came out to pile on Brady, accusing him of more cheating from bugging locker rooms to warm gatorade and ESPN posting a million articles a day and tons of unverified accusations.

Hell Peter King who also posted the 11 out of 12 balls tweet, came out today and said the stories are not comparable because Manning didn't gain a competitive advantage from HGH use while Brady did by deflating footballs He also said he believes Manning did nothing wrong, while Brady who went to court under oath is not believable. I'm not making this up, its starts at the 5 min mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Zw-2WZ2ZaY Chris Mortenson also said Al Jeezera are not a credible source yet posting the erroneous 11 out of 12 tweet from his source was no issue.

I do understand that this thread is not about Deflate Gate but to be fair the complete opposite reactions to the controversies of the two HOF QBs of our generation is a major talking point. This is my last post on the DeflateGate in this thread tho as its not the main story but its definitely a credible side story.

Just to clarify the rule, Pats were wronged stuff can stand (and that's how the Pats came into the thread at all) but Pats were wrong stuff will be deleted?

Fr Tod Umptious

Whosthis wrote: »

Manning is a marquee name which puts him front and center of any accusations, he's also a religious zealot and is seen as an all American good guy which would make a fall from grace all the more newsworthy.

Is he ?

In all the years I honestly cannot recall Manning thanking our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ for anything, in the manner of which Warner or Tebow would.

helimachoptor

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Just to clarify the rule, Pats were wronged stuff can stand (and that's how the Pats came into the thread at all) but Pats were wrong stuff will be deleted?

It will stay as it was posted before mod instruction.

Let's try to keep this about manning without it always having to to back to the Pats as the yardstick

Vanolder

Alfred Borden wrote: »

Al Jazeera already backing down :pac: Hopefully Peyton sues them now.

https://twitter.com/gavrithebruce/status/681821837093896193

Backing down???

HigginsJ

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Is he ?

In all the years I honestly cannot recall Manning thanking our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ for anything, in the manner of which Warner or Tebow would.

Really, Jesus is mentioned and you choose Tebow and Warner....................... look at what you have done!!