Peyton Manning Accused of HGH Use

Billy86

I could be wrong, and I know he is extremely religious, but I don't recall Warner mentioning it all too often? Wilson and Tebow on the other hand...

HigginsJ

Billy86 wrote: »

I could be wrong, and I know he is extremely religious, but I don't recall Warner mentioning it all too often? Wilson and Tebow on the other hand...

Had to check it myself there, check out his post SB speech.

JCTO

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Is he ?

In all the years I honestly cannot recall Manning thanking our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ for anything, in the manner of which Warner or Tebow would.

Apparently he is private about it but he does run Christian Youth Camps and is heavily involved with his Church and Christian related stuff.

Here is his views from his book 2nd paragrph explains really why we wouldn't know:

Like my dad, I make it a point when I speak to groups to talk about priorities, and when it’s schoolkids, I rank those priorities as: faith, family, and education, then football. For me generally it had always been the big four: faith, family, friends, and football. And I tell all of them that as important as football is to me, it can never be higher than fourth. My faith has been number one since I was thirteen years old and heard from the pulpit on a Sunday morning in New Orleans a simple question: “If you died today, are you one hundred percent sure you’d go to heaven?” Cooper was there and Eli [Peyton’s two brothers] but it didn’t hit them at the time the way it did me. It was a big church, and I felt very small, but my heart was pounding. The minister invited those who would like that assurance through Jesus Christ to raise their hands, and I did. Then he invited us to come forward, to take a stand, and my heart really started pounding. And from where we sat, it looked like a mile to the front.

But I got up and did it. And I committed my life to Christ, and that faith has been most important to me ever since. Some players get more vocal about it—the Reggie Whites, for example—and some point to Heaven after scoring a touchdown and praise God after games. I have no problem with that. But I don’t do it, and don’t think it makes me any less a Christian. I just want my actions to speak louder, and I don’t want to be more of a target for criticism than I already am. Somebody sees you drinking a beer, which I do, and they think, “Hmmmm, Peyton says he’s this, that, or the other, and there he is drinking alcohol. What’s that all about?”

Christians drink beer. So do non-Christians. Christians also make mistakes, just as non-Christians do. My faith doesn’t make me perfect, it makes me forgiven, and provides me the assurance I looked for half my life ago. I think God answered our prayers with Cooper, and that was a test of our faith. But I also think I’ve been blessed—having so little go wrong in my life, and being given so much. I pray every night, sometimes long prayers about a lot of things and a lot of people, but I don’t talk about it or brag about it because that’s between God and me, and I’m no better than anybody else in God’s sight.

But I consider myself fortunate to be able to go to Him for guidance, and I hope (and pray) I don’t do too many things that displease Him before I get to Heaven myself. I believe, too, that life is much better and freer when you’re committed to God in that way. I find being with others whose faith is the same has made me stronger. J.C. Watts and Steve Largent, for example. They’re both in Congress now. We had voluntary pregame chapel at Tennessee, and I attend chapel every Sunday with players on the team in Indianapolis. I have spoken to church youth groups, and at Christian high schools. And then simply as a Christian, and not as good a one as I’d like to be.

How do I justify football in the context of “love your enemy?” I say to kids, well, football is most definitely a “collision sport,” and I can’t deny it jars your teeth and at the extreme can break your bones. But I’ve never seen it as a “violent game,” there are rules to prevent that, and I know I don’t have to hate anybody on the other side to play as hard as I can within the rules. I think you’d have to get inside my head to appreciate it, but I do love football. And, yes, I’d play it for nothing if that was the only way, even now when I’m no longer a child. I find no contradiction in football and my faith.

Ah, but do I “pray for victory?” No, except as a generic thing. I pray to keep both teams injury free, and personally, that I use whatever talent I have to the best of my ability. But I don’t think God really cares about who wins football games, except as winning might influence the character of some person or group. Besides. If the Colts were playing the Cowboys and I prayed for the Colts and Troy Aikman prayed for the Cowboys, wouldn’t that make it a standoff?

I do feel this way about it. Dad says it can take twenty years to make a reputation, and five minutes to ruin it. I want my reputation to be able to make it through whatever five-minute crises I run into. And I’m a lot more comfortable knowing where my help is.

Amerika

I really want to trust Manning on this, and recent reports indicate Peyton is to be believed.

But in the back of my head, and with all the money on the line, there's always this... “Remember the last time an athlete was accused of taking prohibited performance enhancing drugs and it turned out to be untrue? Me neither.”

Jolly Red Giant

Who gives a fiddlers over Manning's religious beliefs. He's from Louisianna so it would hardly be surprising if he was a bible basher. In fact it is surprising that it isn't far more prevalent among NFL players - there are many other sports where it is far more in your face (my daughter follows American gymnastics and the top gymnasts never shut up about it).

Now I have no idea if Manning used HGH - however I do not agree with hanging the guy based on what appear to be dubious accusations from AJ. Unlike many of the other elite athletes who pleaded innocence only to be shown to be lying there has never been any suggestion or indication that Manning has been using PEDs (with others there were well know instances where they did fail drugs tests only for the tests to be suppressed or 'lost'). Absolutely have a full investigation - but until such an investigation proves that Manning has been taking the stuff I don't think he should be thrown under the bus (primarily by people who have never liked the guy despite his talent and fantastic career).

JCTO

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Who gives a fiddlers over Manning's religious beliefs. He's from Louisianna so it would hardly be surprising if he was a bible basher. In fact it is surprising that it isn't far more prevalent among NFL players - there are many other sports where it is far more in your face (my daughter follows American gymnastics and the top gymnasts never shut up about it).

A good point was made as to why it would be newsworthy and it was mentioned he is very religious and it isn't something most knew due to the fact as Manning says he isn't vocal about it.

Hardly a Bible Basher to be fair to Manning as he isn't going around forcing his beliefs on people in fact the exact opposite.

Depending on who you ask it is relevant because many believe Manning to be an all round good guy who wouldn't do such a thing.

eagle eye

Yeah I really don't care about this at all. It's not like he was the first or will be the last NFL player to use HGH and that is if he did at all.

Jolly Red Giant

For me the most interesting thing that has happened this week is not the allegations against Mannng but the fact that Kubiak announced that Osweiler was the starting QB for next week at the same time Manning declared that he was fit enough to play. Last week Kubiak didn't announce that Os was the starter until Wednesday - this week it happened minutes after the game against the Bengals.

eagle eye

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

For me the most interesting thing that has happened this week is not the allegations against Mannng but the fact that Kubiak announced that Osweiler was the starting QB for next week at the same time Manning declared that he was fit enough to play. Last week Kubiak didn't announce that Os was the starter until Wednesday - this week it happened minutes after the game against the Bengals.

I don't think those things are related though, I think Kubiak's only thoughts are about winning the next game and he is doing what he feels is best in that regard.

bruschi

eagle eye wrote: »

Yeah I really don't care about this at all. It's not like he was the first or will be the last NFL player to use HGH and that is if he did at all.

Agree with that. The NFL generally doesn't give a crap about the usage of it and media generally don't make a big deal about players using it, so I don't see this being any different. If he did do it, it wouldn't change any of his legacy at all in my opinion.

Jolly Red Giant

eagle eye wrote: »

I don't think those things are related though, I think Kubiak's only thoughts are about winning the next game and he is doing what he feels is best in that regard.

I didn't suggest that they were related.

In my opinion the big story is not that Manning might or might not have taken HGH but that he is now a back-up to a QB who has six starts in the NFL.

Lirange

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/on-manning-controversy--expert-says---it-wouldn-t-make-sense--to-use-hgh-in-recovery-234910370.html

Many sports fans believe HGH is a super serum, able to create a stunning metamorphosis of the body. There's not a lot of evidence for that.

In 2008, a study of growth hormone's effects on athletic performance was published in the "Annals of Internal Medicine." The results were hardly a ringing endorsement. "Growth hormone is reported to be extensively used for illicit enhancement of athletic performance, both for its anabolic and endurance effects," wrote the authors. "However, our review of the limited published literature suggests that although growth hormone may alter body composition, it has minimal effect on key athletic performance outcomes and may, in fact, be associated with worsened exercise capacity." In other words, maybe HGH will help you look shredded, and perhaps it can assist with recovery, but it won't necessarily help you improve in your sport.

They should still test for it (HgH) of course, lets there be any doubts. But whether it actually tangibly improves performance seems highly questionable.

Hazys

Is someone seriously trying to argue that HGH doesn't make an athlete better?

Lirange

Hazys wrote: »

Is someone seriously trying to argue that HGH doesn't make an athlete better?

Scientists that are far more knowledgeable on the subject than you or I have cast doubts on some of the assumptions over it's benefits, yes. And before you ask, no, these are not hacks.

http://annals.org/article.aspx?articleid=741027


Read and draw your own conclusions. I don't make any claims myself. Studies on HgH are relatively new (last 15 yrs) and the scientific community is just coming to grips with what it actually does in the context of sport performance. But the early evidence emerging seems to suggest that HgH is far less effective than anabolic steroids and other peds that have a long history and have proven their performance efficacy.

None of this is meant to excuse PM or suggest he didn't intend to use HgH for his benefit. I just thought it was interesting (and it is really).

D9Male

That relates to athletic performance. I don't think anyone thought HGH would make Peyton a better QB. If he used it, it was surely to help recover from injury and possibly to recover after tough training blocks or matches.

Billy86

D9Male wrote: »

That relates to athletic performance. I don't think anyone thought HGH would make Peyton a better QB. If he used it, it was surely to help recover from injury and possibly to recover after tough training blocks or matches.

Recovering quicker aline though would be doing just that. Part of being an older QB is feeling the hits more, needing to get rid of the ball quicker to avoid that, and using smarts/experience to overcome this. Him hitting the deck early to avoid hits this season is an example of something he could have theoretically been able to avoid if he were benefitting from HGH.

eagle eye

Billy86 wrote: »

Recovering quicker aline though would be doing just that. Part of being an older QB is feeling the hits more, needing to get rid of the ball quicker to avoid that, and using smarts/experience to overcome this. Him hitting the deck early to avoid hits this season is an example of something he could have theoretically been able to avoid if he were benefitting from HGH.

Just to be clear I'm not saying that Peyton was taking anything but what you are saying makes no sense. Every QB is going to avoid injury if possible and as you get older you are more aware of that, and when you are older and have had a serious injury you are going to be even more careful that way.

Use of HGH will not avoid injury but it will help you get back to where you were a lot quicker and for some just to recover as they won't heal properly without it.

helimachoptor

Al jazeera America is shutting down

eagle eye

helimachoptor wrote: »

Al jazeera America is shutting down

Wow Peyton has some power.

Hazys

helimachoptor wrote: »

Al jazeera America is shutting down

Its kinda weird that a channel shutting down in US because of lack of viewers somehow makes the HGH report less valid.

Al Jeezera is a huge network worldwide and the guys who made the report work for the parent company not the TV channel. The journalism department in the USA will operate as usual.

helimachoptor

Hazys wrote: »

Its kinda weird that a channel shutting down in US because of lack of viewers somehow makes the HGH report less valid.

Al Jeezera is a huge network worldwide and the guys who made the report work for the parent company not the TV channel. The journalism department in the USA will operate as usual.

Agree but some will perceive that's the case

StringerBell

The lengths they go to to protect the Golden Boy is unbelievable!

LuckyLloyd

StringerBell wrote: »

The lengths they go to to protect the Golden Boy is unbelievable!

Meh, HGH use has to be rampant across the league. I really don't see what is to be gained by scapegoating Manning above anyone else. It's standard sport journalist fairytale telling (only the few cheat).

adrian522

The fact that everybody is doing it is irrelevant, if journalists ignore this then it goes unreported, the fact that it is a high profile player all the better.

The question is do we want cheating to be tolerated or not?

Even now the test they are using for HGH will only return a positive if HGH was used in the previous 2 hours. There is a much more rigorous test but they don't use it. Presumably for fear of what they will find out.

LuckyLloyd

adrian522 wrote: »

The fact that everybody is doing it is irrelevant, if journalists ignore this then it goes unreported, the fact that it is a high profile player all the better.

The question is do we want cheating to be tolerated or not?

Even now the test they are using for HGH will only return a positive if HGH was used in the previous 2 hours. There is a much more rigorous test but they don't use it. Presumably for fear of what they will find out.

Yes. You don't want a clean NFL. You like being entertained. You like the best players in the league spending as much time on the field as possible in a brutal sport. As I said earlier in this thread, in my opinion professional athletes recovering from major injury should be using HGH.

adrian522

Well, that is where you and I will disagree. It is dangerous and against the rules.

Personally I don't want to be entertained by players breaking the rules and taking unnecessary risks.

If we were to follow your lead then HGH should be legal, but it is not. So what the journalists are dong is correct, they spot wrongdoing and they bring it to light.

Personally I think a whole load of things the NFL use to get players out on the field is wrong and should not be used, and is leading to more and more injuries, and damaging health of players in the long term.

But HGH is banned by the NFL and if players are using it they should be called out on it and if it is proven they should be banned. For years not games.

LuckyLloyd

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Yes. You don't want a clean NFL. You like being entertained. You like the best players in the league spending as much time on the field as possible in a brutal sport. As I said earlier in this thread, in my opinion professional athletes recovering from major injury should be using HGH.

There is a reason its banned it causes any dormant cancer cells to go crazy

eagle eye

As it turns out Al Jeezera are shutting down their TV channel but are actually intending to increase their presence in the US by pumping the money wasted on a TV channel into their digital presence in the US.

Like most people get their news online these days so it's a sound business decision by them.

jack presley

eagle eye wrote: »

As it turns out Al Jeezera are shutting down their TV channel but are actually intending to increase their presence in the US by pumping the money wasted on a TV channel into their digital presence in the US.

Like most people get their news online these days so it's a sound business decision by them.

Kind of has a Spinal Tap "their appeal is becoming more selective" feel about it.

LuckyLloyd

adrian522 wrote: »

Well, that is where you and I will disagree. It is dangerous and against the rules.

Personally I don't want to be entertained by players breaking the rules and taking unnecessary risks.

If we were to follow your lead then HGH should be legal, but it is not. So what the journalists are dong is correct, they spot wrongdoing and they bring it to light.

Personally I think a whole load of things the NFL use to get players out on the field is wrong and should not be used, and is leading to more and more injuries, and damaging health of players in the long term.

But HGH is banned by the NFL and if players are using it they should be called out on it and if it is proven they should be banned. For years not games.

Leslie Narrow Schoolmaster wrote: »

There is a reason its banned it causes any dormant cancer cells to go crazy

These are professional athletes choosing to play in the NFL!! I don't think long term health concerns are on their radar tbh.

adrian522

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

These are professional athletes choosing to play in the NFL!! I don't think long term health concerns are on their radar tbh.

Well it should be on their radar , and it should be on the NFL's radar too. It is banned for a reason.

If you want everyone to use it then take it off the banned list, but don't throw the journalists under the bus for bringing it up.

LuckyLloyd

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

These are professional athletes choosing to play in the NFL!! I don't think long term health concerns are on their radar tbh.

Having sore knees in your 60s is very different to having cancer in your 20s

LuckyLloyd

adrian522 wrote: »

Well it should be on their radar , and it should be on the NFL's radar too. It is banned for a reason.

If you want everyone to use it then take it off the banned list, but don't throw the journalists under the bus for bringing it up.

Sports journalists are just living in cloud cuckoo land on the topic, that's all. The NFL has a purposefully lax PED policy. They use far less complex testing than available and issue minimal bans. Their policy is reasonably pragmatic and fits with a world in which athletes playing maybe the most brutal contact field sport will use every available assistance to get out there on a Sunday.

Leslie Narrow Schoolmaster wrote: »

Having sore knees in your 60s is very different to having cancer in your 20s

I really don't know what to say to that? I'll be needing to see the studies that attribute multiple cases of NFL players in their 20s suffering cancer to HGH use? Moreover, I wish the affects of participation in the NFL were limited to knee pain later in life, but we damn well know that's not the case:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NFL_players_with_chronic_traumatic_encephalopathy

Bottom line? The NFL is a brutal yet highly entertaining version of the Coliseum in ancient Rome where players expose themselves to extreme physical risk. And their contracts aren't even guaranteed. If they're not using every available substance they're selling themselves short.

adrian522

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Sports journalists are just living in cloud cuckoo land on the topic, that's all. The NFL has a purposefully lax PED policy. They use far less complex testing than available and issue minimal bans. Their policy is reasonably pragmatic and fits with a world in which athletes playing maybe the most brutal contact field sport will use every available assistance to get out there on a Sunday.

How does this equate to "Sports journalists are just living in cloud cuckoo land"?

Sports journalists are pointing out what is going on (as is their job), against the rules. What is ridiculous is the attitude the NFL and most NFL fans have to performance enhancing drugs.

StringerBell

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Meh, HGH use has to be rampant across the league. I really don't see what is to be gained by scapegoating Manning above anyone else. It's standard sport journalist fairytale telling (only the few cheat).

Surely you got that I was joking?

Hulk Hands

StringerBell wrote: »

The lengths they go to to protect the Golden Boy is unbelievable!

Not directed at you as you seem to be messing. Anyway..

Listened to an American based podcast today that was suggesting Manning was unfairly malinged by the general public and media over there. Not given full credit for being the best regular season QB of all time was said, and also ripped apart for post season failings of teams that weren't good enough to be there in the first place. Was put down to him being a lack of an athlete and winning through prep and smarts rather than natural talent, which doesnt endear to the public, and a new era of lazy journalism where it's easier to report that "Manning chokes again" rather than report in depth. 13th best post season QBR of all time, 1 spot behind Brady in 12th. Ive no real opinion on it, other than that it flies in the face of the perception over here of him being protected at every turn

j8wk2feszrnpao

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Ive no real opinion on it, other than that it flies in the face of the perception over here of him being protected at every turn

One podcast shouldn't dispel someones perception in an age when you can browse websites and the media coverage of an event.

LuckyLloyd

adrian522 wrote: »

How does this equate to "Sports journalists are just living in cloud cuckoo land"?

Sports journalists are pointing out what is going on (as is their job), against the rules. What is ridiculous is the attitude the NFL and most NFL fans have to performance enhancing drugs.

How is realism ridiculous? The pretence of clean sport is far more ridiculous imo, in general the NFL and its fans are simply nodding to the realities of what goes into the most entertaining sport in the world - the freak athleticism we love to watch being on show as consistently just wouldn't be possible otherwise.

adrian522

If you want to allow it take it off the banned list then, insulting journalists is certainly not the way to go IMO.

It is ridiculous n the sense that they ban all these substances, then don't test for them and if by some miracle people get caught, they get a two game ban that can be overturned on appeal and they don't even say what they were caught using.

As I said ridiculous.

Billy86

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

How is realism ridiculous? The pretence of clean sport is far more ridiculous imo, in general the NFL and its fans are simply nodding to the realities of what goes into the most entertaining sport in the world - the freak athleticism we love to watch being on show as consistently just wouldn't be possible otherwise.

You're getting young, impressionable teens who in large part come from very poor backgrounds in a country that despite what it markets itself as, offers very limited opportunity for people in such situations. Then you're waiving the potential for millions of dollars (without fully letting them know they'll never see the majority of it) and encouraging them to take drugs that they don't know the side effects of so that they can get an edge physically, or also mentally - allowing them to slam their brains off the walls of their skulls and accelerate severe brain damage in case the hyperactive cancer cells, etc don't get them.

For me, this 'choice' isn't really a fair one to be presenting an individual.

Mind you with technology as it is, and how fast it is accelerating, I think controlled juicing might not be the worst option. That being, regulated steroids & PEDs that have been thoroughly tested and researched so as to completely eliminate/largely minimise side effects (with loud and clear information and warnings provided for any remaining side effects and such), and a zero tolerance approach to any additionals being taken (lifetime bans all 'round type of things, and criminal proceedings for those providing/creating them - which would be much more effective with p*ssed off pharma companies that create the 'regulated' ones throwing their legal team behind it). I'm sure there are people on here with far more knowledge than me regarding medicine etc who might consider than an awful idea, mind! :pac:

Inquitus

Billy86 wrote: »

You're getting young, impressionable teens who in large part come from very poor backgrounds in a country that despite what it markets itself as, offers very limited opportunity for people in such situations. Then you're waiving the potential for millions of dollars (without fully letting them know they'll never see the majority of it) and encouraging them to take drugs that they don't know the side effects of so that they can get an edge physically, or also mentally - allowing them to slam their brains off the walls of their skulls and accelerate severe brain damage in case the hyperactive cancer cells, etc don't get them.

For me, this 'choice' isn't really a fair one to be presenting an individual.

Mind you with technology as it is, and how fast it is accelerating, I think controlled juicing might not be the worst option. That being, regulated steroids & PEDs that have been thoroughly tested and researched so as to completely eliminate/largely minimise side effects (with loud and clear information and warnings provided for any remaining side effects and such), and a zero tolerance approach to any additionals being taken (lifetime bans all 'round type of things, and criminal proceedings for those providing/creating them - which would be much more effective with p*ssed off pharma companies that create the 'regulated' ones throwing their legal team behind it). I'm sure there are people on here with far more knowledge than me regarding medicine etc who might consider than an awful idea, mind! :pac:

Things is it all goes back down the chain, and you'll end up with High School kids doping in the hope of making it in the NFL, safer all round to have a robust testing and ban procedure and stamp it out from the top down.

Hazys

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/14652385/mlb-asks-us-anti-doping-agency-help-investigate-al-jazeera-claims

Quinn reports that Major League Baseball and the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency are collaborating regarding the alleged involvement of baseball players. The NFL, per Quinn, declined.

I guess its not as an important issue as slightly deflated footballs.

SantryRed

Hazys wrote: »

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/14652385/mlb-asks-us-anti-doping-agency-help-investigate-al-jazeera-claims

Quinn reports that Major League Baseball and the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency are collaborating regarding the alleged involvement of baseball players. The NFL, per Quinn, declined.

I guess its not as an important issue as slightly deflated footballs.

You need to let deflategate go at this stage. You always seem to want to bring it up. The Pats were dicked over by Goodell, it goes without saying, but it's tedious to see it always brought up.

eagle eye

SantryRed wrote: »

You need to let deflategate go at this stage. You always seem to want to bring it up. The Pats were dicked over by Goodell, it goes without saying, but it's tedious to see it always brought up.

It's fair game everytime there is something like this to compare it to what Goodell went hell for leather after and what he is prepared to not bother with.

Hazys

SantryRed wrote: »

You need to let deflategate go at this stage. You always seem to want to bring it up. The Pats were dicked over by Goodell, it goes without saying, but it's tedious to see it always brought up.

Let it go? It will kick off again next week with Brady defending himself in front of the fcuking Supreme court so i wish I could.

You may be tired of it and most non-Pats may be tired of it, but as a Pats fan, i think i have the right to point out every glaring hypocrisy by the NFL and the media.

Hazys

I guess the main reason Goodell doesn't want to get involved in a joint investigation with the MLB and the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency, is because he can't control the results.

Goodell makes the Manitowoc County Police Department look like angels.

Hazys

Hazys wrote: »

Let it go? It will kick off again next week with Brady defending himself in front of the fcuking Supreme court so i wish I could.

You may be tired of it and most non-Pats may be tired of it, but as a Pats fan, i think i have the right to point out every glaring hypocrisy by the NFL and the media.

But yet if another non pats fan brings it up they are a hater

Hazys

Leslie Narrow Schoolmaster wrote: »

But yet if another non pats fan brings it up they are a hater

This post makes zero sense to me.

If non-pats fan brings up brings up deflate gate to highlight the hypocrisy of the NFL and/or the media, I'd call them a hater?

Moist Bread

Hazys wrote: »

Let it go? It will kick off again next week with Brady defending himself in front of the fcuking Supreme court so i wish I could.

You may be tired of it and most non-Pats may be tired of it, but as a Pats fan, i think i have the right to point out every glaring hypocrisy by the NFL and the media.

But you are still going to run that **** into the ground anyway. Nice one. We get the idea.

Vanolder

Manning is a cheat.