Air Accident / Incident thread

P_1

Would the undercarriage of a widebody be that sensitive to potential damage if it went onto grass while taxiing? I understand that safety and protocol is key when it comes to aviation but recalling a plane for something like that seems rather odd.

Please pardon any ignorance here.

Irish Steve

P_1 wrote: »

Would the undercarriage of a widebody be that sensitive to potential damage if it went onto grass while taxiing? I understand that safety and protocol is key when it comes to aviation but recalling a plane for something like that seems rather odd.

Please pardon any ignorance here.

The main worry would be possible damage to one or more tyres, and if a tyre deflates suddenly, that can disrupt or damage other systems that pass through the wheel well area, there are hydraulic systems and brake pipes that can be damaged, and possibly fuel pipes that pass through or close to that area. The main undercarriage leg is stressed to deal with way more than going into soft ground,so no real worries there.

Bsal

FR24 playback looks very close to the edge indeed

cml387

No great drama, it looks like a misjudged turn at the threshold onto the piano keys.

A bit embarrassing though.

As they used to say, a case for tea and biccies in the chief pilot's office?

L1011

The precision on FR24 at that level is pretty much non-existent, that needs to be remembered.

cml387

L1011 wrote: »

The precision on FR24 at that level is pretty much non-existent, that needs to be remembered.

True, but there is the evidence of the holding flight that there was some damage done to the threshold lights and an on grass excursion.

ED E

Gulfstream 5 failed to indicate/sense landing gear down last night at SNN and required a visual confirmation. Not really an incident but required a full ES response.

EDIT: Already covered in FR24 thread.

Lostphrophet

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5026369/NBA-star-tweets-incredible-photo-damaged-team-plane.html

'Did we just hit superman?' NBA stars share incredible photos of team jet's smashed nose after it was damaged at 30,000ft during 'rough flight' from Minnesota to Chicago

A Bird Strike could do this? even a flock of large birds? i wouldnt of thought so

BorneTobyWilde

To damage the cone shape like that would take a lot of force.

Simon Gruber Says

Canadian Geese have been known to fly up to 30,000 feet. Hitting one at cruise speed would easily cause considerable damage.

faoiarvok

Lostphrophet wrote: »

A Bird Strike could do this? even a flock of large birds? i wouldnt of thought so

Bear in mind the material on the nose there is far softer than the rest of the fuselage as the weather radar is behind it.

Irish Steve

If you want to get an idea of some of the damage that bird strikes have caused, do a Google search on "bird strike", and then select images, and there's more than enough there to make it clear that hitting a large bird at speed has the potential to do significant damage to an airframe or engine, to the point where that have been a number of occasions where the flight has been brought down as a result of multiple bird strikes, the most significant being the Airbus that had to be landed in the Hudson River after both engines were put out of action by multiple bird strikes.

martinsvi

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

To damage the cone shape like that would take a lot of force.

a jet flying at cruising speed actually does provide a lot of force, at those speeds probably even hitting a pillow would leave a dent.

I remember seeing a documentary on satellites and the story was that the faster the object moves, the smaller the debris need to be to cause a significant damage. They were showing punctured solar panels that got damaged by colliding with paint chips and dust as small as 1mm

I think Tim Peake also had a pic on his facebook some time ago, when he was still up in ISS with a chip in a space station window, they reckoned what ever caused it was a fraction of a millimeter across

1123heavy

http://www.thejournal.ie/omar-salem-engine-strikes-device-3667915-Oct2017/?utm_source=facebook_short

17-year-old Omar Salem is only in fifth year at Sutton Park School, north of the city, at present. He won’t sit his Leaving Cert until 2019. That hasn’t stopped him developing a system to curb the issue of engine strikes ..... “Basically it’s a multi-element autonomous system, based in the front of the engine, to detect foreign objects, intercept them, and either store or expel them,” he tells TheJournal.ie with regard to his project.
It does all this without affecting the overall aerodynamics of the aircraft.
He used state-of-the-art computer aided design, computational fluid dynamics and finite element analysis software in DCU to create a system ‘that can detect and intercept foreign object damage with speed and precision’.

Found this to be an interesting read. Not fully clear on how it works with cones coming up in front of the fan blades but I'm sure the lad could be onto something

cml387

faoiarvok wrote: »

Bear in mind the material on the nose there is far softer than the rest of the fuselage as the weather radar is behind it.

I think it's fibreglass? It needs to be non metallic to allow the radar to do its work.

BeardySi

Flybe Dash 8 lands at BFS without nose gear...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-41944752

http://avherald.com/h?article=4b0d7885&opt=0

looksee

Flight EK 164 dublin to dubai had a tyre burst on landing - one passenger said the camera showing the incident was a bit tmi as they didn't even notice.

Hotblack Desiato

BeardySi wrote: »

Flybe Dash 8 lands at BFS without nose gear...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-41944752

http://avherald.com/h?article=4b0d7885&opt=0

Seems there's a ridiculous number of gear incidents with that type. Good job by the crew.

martinsvi

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Seems there's a ridiculous number of gear incidents with that type. Good job by the crew.

I went through the ASN database out of interest, the Q400 has 5 nose gear incidents and 4 main gear.. that's with 561 units built and being in service for nearly 20 years.. I wouldn't call it a ridiculous number. If you compare to ATR 72 - with just over 900 build and operating for nearly 30 years, I counted 7 nose gear incidents and 3 main gear.

the difference is that Q400 gear troubles come out after uneventful flights and normal landings, whereas ATR72 seems to be involved in a lot of bouncy landings and runway excursions causing gear failure after an obvious impact.

Either way both aircraft types have starred in many youtube crosswind landing videos showing they do take a lot of beating, especially Flybe fleet

Stovepipe

the Q400 got a bad name for itself in it's early days because of a rash of gear failures and SAS handed back theirs, because of two of those failures. The ATR has a reputation for sporty landings in crosswinds because of a narrow track undercarriage and small wheels, so it can be entertaining to land.

Simon Gruber Says

Midair collision reported between an aeroplane and helicopter, near Aylesbury in the UK. Not many details at present.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-42024712

JCX BXC

Light aircraft I assume?

I doubt jet aircraft would be flying that low.

faoiarvok

JCX BXC wrote: »

Light aircraft I assume?

I doubt jet aircraft would be flying that low.

The BBC story says Wycombe Air Park confirmed both aircraft were operating out of there, and looking online it seems like just light GA stuff operating there

smurfjed

I doubt jet aircraft would be flying that low.

How low is "that low"?

martinsvi

JCX BXC wrote: »

I doubt jet aircraft would be flying that low.

remember this one?

https://www.flyer.co.uk/instructor-saves-day-jetmicrolight-near-miss/

smurfjed

[font=Trebuchet MS", Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, "Sans Serif]A Bombardier Challenger 604 aircraft was conducting a flight from Leeds/Bradford, UK to St-John’s, Canada, with 2 crew members and 7 passengers on board. During the oceanic entry cruising at FL340 in the vicinity of waypoint ETIKI, the flight crew received intermittent amber 'A' messages on both PFDs, associated with AP TRIM IS RWD and AP TRIM IS LWD EICAS messages. Transfer of the autopilot from one side to the other did not resolve the problem and, as the flight crew decided to fly the aircraft manually, there was a rapid and significant roll of less than 20° to the right when the autopilot was disconnected. Extreme force was required to roll the aircraft back to the left, while [/font]
[font=Trebuchet MS", Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, "Sans Serif]turning to the right was normal. The flight crew executed the emergency checklist and requested a direct routing to Shannon Intl, Ireland (EINN). No emergency was declared, and aileron control improved as the aircraft descended. The aircraft subsequently landed on runway 06 with flaps 20 and ARFF standing by. [/font]
[font=Trebuchet MS", Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, "Sans Serif]During the post-flight inspection, the operator’s maintenance noted that there was a significant amount of water dripping from the underside of the fuselage, aft of the wheel well in proximity of the lower beacon. The operator is suspecting that a water leak caused a freezing of the aileron trim mechanism.[/font]

I'm surprised that he didn't declare an emergency for a flight control issue.

AndyBoBandy

U.S. Navy C-2 Greyhound (not confirmed what type though yet) has crashed in the Sea of Japan while attempting to land on a carrier (USS Ronald Reagan)

https://theaviationist.com/2017/11/22/u-s-navy-aircraft-carrying-11-crew-and-passengers-crashed-in-the-ocean-southeast-of-okinawa/

pepe the prawn

I presume the crew positioned back to Dubai as pax for a “no-tea-and-no-biscuits” meeting with the chief pilot...

.....was on final approach to New York's runway 13L following the Canarsie approach (requiring a 90 degrees turn onto very short final), when the aircraft descended below minimums prompting tower to warn EK-207 "you appear to be extremely low on approach" at 20:26L (01:26Z Dec 5th) while the aircraft was about half way into the turn about to be abeam the Aqueduct Racetrack about 2.5nm before the runway threshold, the crew announced in response "missed approach". The aircraft climbed out to safety, positioned for another approach now to runway 22L and landed safely about 10 minutes after the go-around.

http://avherald.com/h?article=4b21e320&opt=0


https://fr24.com/data/flights/ek207#fba99be

LiamaDelta

Pretty serious one in Toronto. Surprised there wasn't a quicker order to evacuate. Not on Avherald yet.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/06/fire-as-one-plane-crashes-into-another-at-toronto-pearson-airport

1123heavy

LiamaDelta wrote: »

Pretty serious one in Toronto. Surprised there wasn't a quicker order to evacuate. Not on Avherald yet.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/06/fire-as-one-plane-crashes-into-another-at-toronto-pearson-airport

don't think avherald do ground incidents