Triathlon winter training volumes

Bawnmore_Ent.

Just wondering what sort of volumes are people doing for this time of year. I am presently doing about 6 hours running, 4 hours on the bike and two hours swimming per week.

I think I probably need to get more swimming in.

EC1000

Bawnmore_Ent. wrote: »

I think I probably need to get more swimming in.

Depends - if you are training for your first sprint then that is a lot of hours. If you are looking for a sub 10 IM then its not. What's the goal?

RacoonQueen

What are you training for and what type of sessions are you doing across each discipline? 6 hours running is a lot - that's 65 - 75km a week of easy running for a lot of people on here...which is a fair bit of running for December.

Bawnmore_Ent.

RacoonQueen wrote:

What are you training for and what type of sessions are you doing across each discipline? 6 hours running is a lot - that's 65 - 75km a week of easy running for a lot of people on here...which is a fair bit of running for December.

I am doing Rotterdam marathon in April. Got my lactate threshold test done recently so two zone 2 runs, and 3 recovery (zone 1) per week, including 1 long run.

Also doing my first Ironman in Barcelona in Oct. Did my first him in Dublin, loved it. Loose plan of 2-3 more half's before the full.

mossym

Bawnmore_Ent. wrote: »

. Loose plan of 2-3 more half's before the full.

why?

Bawnmore_Ent.

mossym wrote:

why?

Why? I had planned on doing 3 him's as preparation for the full but I was chatting with a coach recently and suggested that 2 maybe more beneficial for preparation for a full.

EC1000

Bawnmore_Ent. wrote: »

Why? I had planned on doing 3 him's as preparation for the full but I was chatting with a coach recently and suggested that 2 maybe more beneficial for preparation for a full.

I don't see how a half prepares you for a full. You wouldn't do a series of half marathons to prepare for a full one. Would be interested to hear the thinking behind this.

Chartsengrafs

EC1000 wrote: »

I don't see how a half prepares you for a full. You wouldn't do a series of half marathons to prepare for a full one. Would be interested to hear the thinking behind this.

What would you suggest then? A half in preparation for a full isn't exactly an outrageous suggestion.

EC1000

Basster wrote: »

What would you suggest then? A half in preparation for a full isn't exactly an outrageous suggestion.

I'm no expert by any means and have not gone long yet so only my opinion.... One half would seem reasonable - for a day out if nothing else. 90k on the bike would be a poor long cycle as part of IM training so don't see the benefit of doing multiple ones. Of course if you can do it on top of a regular IM training load then maybe fine...

Bawnmore_Ent.

This thread has gone off topic somewhat. I was only asking the question what volume are other people training at the moment this time of year?

I haven't done my IM training plan yet as I will start in March. There will be minimum 1 half in the training plan and possibly 1 metric him, all to be confirmed in plan.

sconhome

EC1000 wrote: »

I don't see how a half prepares you for a full. You wouldn't do a series of half marathons to prepare for a full one.

That is true.

But good to see someone working across the distances rather than hop, skip, jump & out the far side with IM medal and done.

EC1000

Bawnmore_Ent. wrote: »

This thread has gone off topic somewhat. I was only asking the question what volume are other people training at the moment this time of year?

Back on topic. I would love to be doing the hours you are - real life is taking over at the minute. Probably doing half that if truth be told. Hoping to do a couple of decent half distance races next year. Best of luck with the IM!

Bambaata

Bawnmore_Ent. wrote: »

This thread has gone off topic somewhat. I was only asking the question what volume are other people training at the moment this time of year?

I haven't done my IM training plan yet as I will start in March. There will be minimum 1 half in the training plan and possibly 1 metric him, all to be confirmed in plan.

On first glance your running hours are above what id be at (if I could run ) but then I see your medium term goal is a marathon. If the marathon wasn't there id be near doubling the bike, a little less running and a small bit more swimming.

RacoonQueen

Yeah I thought the running was excessive...you're doing about the same as me...except more biking and I'm doing Rotterdam. No IM for me next year though unfortunately so no need for the 4 hour bikes, right? :pac:

mossym

Bawnmore_Ent. wrote: »

Why? I had planned on doing 3 him's as preparation for the full but I was chatting with a coach recently and suggested that 2 maybe more beneficial for preparation for a full.

Basster wrote: »

What would you suggest then? A half in preparation for a full isn't exactly an outrageous suggestion.

agreed, one isn't. one and a marathon focus though is a lot. a marathon focus and three HIM seems crazy, when would the important blocks of training get done?

OP, if you look in the forum you'll see a link to the SBR challenge for 2015. There are similar threads for previous years. in there, you'll see people log their training efforts for each month, and their main goal. easy to see there what those targeting IM are doing.

Bawnmore_Ent.

RacoonQueen wrote:

Yeah I thought the running was excessive...you're doing about the same as me...except more biking and I'm doing Rotterdam. No IM for me next year though unfortunately so no need for the 4 hour bikes, right?

Only if you like cycling :-)

Rotterdam is fast and flat, great PB course.

Bawnmore_Ent.

mossym wrote:

OP, if you look in the forum you'll see a link to the SBR challenge for 2015. There are similar threads for previous years. in there, you'll see people log their training efforts for each month, and their main goal. easy to see there what those targeting IM are doing.

I'll have a look, thanks. nice to see if I'm not the only lunatic out training with Frank, Eva and the other storms

zico10

First off, it shouldn't matter to you what other people are doing. Some might be doing 30 hours, some might be doing 6. I believe the more hours you put in, the better you'll do. But if you can't find 30 hours in the week to train, then what's the point worrying about it?

It's impossible to tell you exactly how many hours a week you should be training, but I think before starting your IM training proper, you should be comfortably able to get through the same hours as you'll be doing in the first week of your plan. You don't necessarily need to be able for those hours right now, but the earlier you've conditioned yourself to this the better.

Where you are right now, I don't think there's anything wrong with the run volume you're doing. In fact, if you can manage it, I'd give it even more weight.

I know some people that can manage to still swim very fast off one hour swim training a week. The fact you're asking about it, seems to suggest you're not one of these people though. I'm not a swim coach, but the perceived wisdom is the vast majority of people won't improve off two sessions a week.

I don't think you'll lose much in the way of bike fitness by focussing on running for the moment. Run fitness transfers and with 6 months to prep for IM Barcelona, you'll have plenty of time to catch up on cycle training.

Final bit of advice, you don't need to start any specific IM training plan for an October IM in March. I wouldn't even be thinking about the IM until you have finished Rotterdam.

Kurt_Godel

Great advice above from zico, refreshing to read that honesty. It's irrelevant what others are doing; all that should matter is preparing for your event as best you can. If you are targeting a marathon right now I'd see little point in 2hrs swimming (beyond recovery benefits) that could be better spent running. One you are focused on the IM that should be 3+ swim sessions a week, depending on what you want from the swim.

Bawnmore_Ent. wrote: »

Rotterdam is fast and flat, great PB course.

Have you raced it before? If you have, ignore my advice below.

The one time I raced it was far too hot for having marathon trained over an Irish winter (and that seems to be a common complaint for Irish runners over the years). It's super flat, which means you are using the same leg muscles for the whole time, which (I found) is difficult to replicate all the time in training. Train on fast and flat (and potentially hot) courses and you'll be well prepared.

RacoonQueen

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

Have you raced it before? If you have, ignore my advice below.

The one time I raced it was far too hot for having marathon trained over an Irish winter (and that seems to be a common complaint for Irish runners over the years). It's super flat, which means you are using the same leg muscles for the whole time, which (I found) is difficult to replicate all the time in training. Train on fast and flat (and potentially hot) courses and you'll be well prepared.

Hotter weather is a risk for pretty much any Spring marathon, the year I did London a lot were complaining about it being very hot. I did Barca one year and weather was perfect, the following year the Barcelona marathon was roasting.
Same with any Spring / Summer race on the continent, wouldn't let weather risk come into it. I'm assuming the year you did it was the year it was really warm. Girl I know collapsed from the heat near the finish (2011 or 2012 I think?).

But yeah, the 'flat' aspect worries me as I don't train on the 'flat' but what can ye do..few long runs doing loops of the northside of the phoenix park, be grand.

Kurt_Godel

RacoonQueen wrote: »

But yeah, the 'flat' aspect worries me as I don't train on the 'flat' but what can ye do..few long runs doing loops of the northside of the phoenix park, be grand.

If you are going for an aggressive PB (which a lot seem to target R'dam for) then long runs along a flat coast/river IMO. Irish runners don't often get to run 30k+ on the exact same gradient (+/- 5m). Temperature on the day is down to the gods, but preparing for the flatness is controllable, and from my reading of Irish R'dam results over the years is far the bigger factor.

peter kern

EC1000 wrote: »

I don't see how a half prepares you for a full. You wouldn't do a series of half marathons to prepare for a full one. Would be interested to hear the thinking behind this.

To add to zicos post that has most of it said already

There is more ways to Rome and currently both Hawaii champs are also half Im champs ...also most good Im s have done years of halfs before
To the op to many chefs can spoil the broth, better to follow one strategy and follow it well .

Bawnmore_Ent.

mossym wrote: »

OP, if you look in the forum you'll see a link to the SBR challenge for 2015. There are similar threads for previous years. in there, you'll see people log their training efforts for each month, and their main goal. easy to see there what those targeting IM are doing.

I had a look, great insight into the commitment some people make to to their sport.

zico10 wrote: »

First off, it shouldn't matter to you what other people are doing. Some might be doing 30 hours, some might be doing 6. I believe the more hours you put in, the better you'll do. But if you can't find 30 hours in the week to train, then what's the point worrying about it?

Maybe I was looking for a bit of inspiration, more than anything else, i am probably a bit daunted by the future increase in training hours, but also relishing it :eek:

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

Have you raced it before? If you have, ignore my advice below.

The one time I raced it was far too hot for having marathon trained over an Irish winter (and that seems to be a common complaint for Irish runners over the years). It's super flat, which means you are using the same leg muscles for the whole time, which (I found) is difficult to replicate all the time in training. Train on fast and flat (and potentially hot) courses and you'll be well prepared.

No, first time.A mate of mine did it last year, qualified for Boston, so I have that in the back of my mind for 2017.
Accuweather show historically it is 11 degrees, but with the weather all over the shop at the moment, its hard to know!

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

If you are going for an aggressive PB (which a lot seem to target R'dam for) then long runs along a flat coast/river IMO. Irish runners don't often get to run 30k+ on the exact same gradient (+/- 5m). Temperature on the day is down to the gods, but preparing for the flatness is controllable, and from my reading of Irish R'dam results over the years is far the bigger factor.

Great advice,regarding Rotterdam, thank you. I just checked the stats on my usual run, 3 loops of 5k with 83m of ascent. There is a canal fairly close, I may look at that for the long runs, sounds fairly boring running a long straight canal for 10k and then turning back.

Whats your thoughts on including a hill running session once a week anyway?

zico10

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

If you are targeting a marathon right now I'd see little point in 2hrs swimming (beyond recovery benefits) that could be better spent running. One you are focused on the IM that should be 3+ swim sessions a week, depending on what you want from the swim.

I'd agree swimming is great for recovery, but not that you'd automatically be better off giving the time to running instead. I know nothing about the op, but jumping from 6 hours running to 8 hours might not necessarily be the best idea. In pure percentage terms, it is a huge increase.

Gains in aerobic fitness can be made in the water and these transfer to one's overall fitness. Last time I trained for a marathon, I was still swimming 4/5 hours a week. Had I added 4 hours or more to the run training I was doing, there is a very good chance I would have broke down injured. I didn't consider it at the time, but looking back the swimming I was doing certainly played its part in preparing me for the marathon.

You might also remember this thread from earlier in the year;

Kurt_Godel

zico10 wrote: »

I'd agree swimming is great for recovery, but not that you'd automatically be better off giving the time to running instead. I know nothing about the op, but jumping from 6 hours running to 8 hours might not necessarily be the best idea. In pure percentage terms, it is a huge increase.

Gains in aerobic fitness can be made in the water and these transfer to one's overall fitness. Last time I trained for a marathon, I was still swimming 4/5 hours a week. Had I added 4 hours or more to the run training I was doing, there is a very good chance I would have broke down injured. I didn't consider it at the time, but looking back the swimming I was doing certainly played its part in preparing me for the marathon.

You might also remember this thread from earlier in the year;

I don't know anything about the OP either (goals, intensity, etc) so this is a somewhat pointless discussion using his numbers. Or yours, for that matter.

Since its a triathlon forum (rather than a marathon one) and we're speaking about training volume I'd say that anyone here should be swimming at least 3hrs a week in Jan. Agree with all your points zico about the aerobic/crossover benefits to swimming.

zico10

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

I'd see little point in 2hrs swimming

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

anyone here should be swimming at least 3hrs a week

I agree with you, of course.

Now, the customary good natured smilies; :):)

MojoMaker

lol.

Firm believer in the aerobic benefits of consistent swimming, even if the swim times don't move, or indeed go backwards but there's definitely a crossover into both of the other disciplines. Suggest 3 hours a week at a minimum and more like 5-6 if you really want to move forward.

Unless you're looking at long distance racing I'd wonder if the volume commitment to swimming will actually return much relative gain however, compared to adding significant bike mileage to be honest. A 10 min gain on an IM swim pales away quickly compared to a 30 min gain on the bike etc.

Given your focus on spring marathon I'd say your training is pretty balanced at 2/4/6 swim/bike/run - how much quality on those 4 hours on the bike though? That's gonna be the stat you launch off or die on for tri once the marathon is behind you.

Bawnmore_Ent.

MojoMaker wrote:

Given your focus on spring marathon I'd say your training is pretty balanced at 2/4/6 swim/bike/run - how much quality on those 4 hours on the bike though? That's gonna be the stat you launch off or die on for tri once the marathon is behind you.

The swimming is the weakest of the three, it's the one I am most concerned about. My bike would be my strongest, I did a 2:33 in Dublin 70.3,while my swim was 50 minutes. Run was 1:39.

MojoMaker

That was a good bike leg - nice one. If you get a chance to listen to the Gerry Rodriguez swim talk posted by Kurt, he has a few tips for people coming to tri with swimming as the weak link.

Bawnmore_Ent.

MojoMaker wrote:

That was a good bike leg - nice one. If you get a chance to listen to the Gerry Rodriguez swim talk posted by Kurt, he has a few tips for people coming to tri with swimming as the weak link.

I started listening to it, but got caught up with work, must listen to it fully on my long run, thanks.