Still no Nationwide DAB Radio

Andy From Sligo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120913102#Comment_120913102

no complaints from me 🙂 - for the short amount of time it was in operation.

Did the cops break the door down and smashed up all their equipment I wonder.

So all these people saying the costs would be astronomical and especially to do it nationwide and that the infrastructure isnt there ... well the Pirates managed to get it up and running somehow

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120913172#Comment_120913172

I believe one site was raided.

A few disconnected pirate TXs using opensource kit is not scalable to a national network where you need precise timing synchronisation, proper site planning and much higher quality equipment to avoid production of spurious signals; plus a 24/7 rota of paid people to monitor and maintain it.

Similar to the person who priced up the cost of Aertel as being a Raspberry Pi running a teletext generator - the signal generation is not the bulk of the cost so "proving" that it can be done cheaper doesn't actually address the real costs - towers, power and people.

Andy From Sligo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120913197#Comment_120913197

well I don't know the technical's of it all, of course ... all I know is that I had some kind of DAB service on my Car radio for a while and it worked and I loved it

SPDUB

Similar to the person who priced up the cost of Aertel as being a Raspberry Pi running a teletext generator - the signal generation is not the bulk of the cost so "proving" that it can be done cheaper doesn't actually address the real costs - towers, power and people.

Using Hollywood accounting doesn't help the case against Aertel by putting the full cost of towers and use of power that would be on air anyway for Saorview

People is a cost for maintaining the signal but definitely not editing since there are frequent mentions of links and pictures on Aertel

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120912052#Comment_120912052

I think most Irish dislike the idea of DAB some even hate it

I think the vast majority of Irish people wouldn't have a rashers what DAB even is, and that's a huge part of the problem.

If anyone wants BBC 4 and TalkSport, there are plenty of ways to listen already.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120914631#Comment_120914631

It was probably never really marketed, and there was certainly never a real nationwide coverage as far as I know. As they have DAB in NI, they did something right in the North.

If anybody wants mobile reception of BBC Radio 4 or TalkSport they would have to use a smartphone.

The nice thing about DAB is that it is totally subscription free, no manual radio dials and a bigger choice.

If it wasn't for DAB I wouldn't listen to the radio at all anymore.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120914631#Comment_120914631

a huge part of the problem for RTE'S infrastructure when it was on air within it's coverage areas, certainly.

outside that, the ultimate problem which outweigh the others is there is no legal ability to operate such infrastructure on a full time basis and no willingness to implement it.

without that issue dealt with, you can forget about the rest.

Lord Nelson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120915477#Comment_120915477

I know of two groups who would be more than willing to invest in DAB infrastructure, in particular small scale DAB which would facilitate community and niche services. The problem is the media commission who fobbed them off with the usual BS, we’ll look into it at some point in the distant future, we might set up a working group etc, etc. Unfortunately, the regular exists to protect the existing monopoly and only pays lip service to diversity.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120918403#Comment_120918403

correct and it always was the case.

and apparently the commission will increase from 50 employees to 160, for what exactly?

KildareP

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120866653#Comment_120866653

If we look to the UK and the USA, removing the barriers in recent years perhaps had the opposite effect to what you hope for. No reason to believe it would not happen here, too.

Both markets there are now dominated by 2-3 big operators (Global and Bauer in the case of the UK, and iHeart, Audacy and Cumulus for the USA).

Over the years when these large broadcasters started out they quickly bought up local stations area by area, applied to loosen (or "flip") the format of the individual stations to a more generic one, fired all of the local on-air staff and then merged each station into a single networked live or syndicated voice tracked national schedule.

In the case of the UK, you have Capital's, Heart's, Smooth's, Hits Radio, Greatest Hits pretty much nationwide on what were all previously independent live and local ILRs.

For the USA, you have Elvis Durran, Ryan Seacrest and Ellen K on stations in pretty much every market of the US with the rest of these station schedules largely voice tracked from a relatively small panel of presenters all churning out generic links that go out across tens or even hundreds of individual stations.

Once these stations are under the new ownership, the owners also then quickly move to fill up all of the available accompanying DAB muxes (or HD sub-channels in the case of the US) with automated jukebox decade stations purely as fillers to prevent anyone else being able to avail of the capacity. The end result is generic, bland automation on a large scale.

So, what you propose as the Ocean FMs standing up in an open market, will ultimately end up in the Ocean FMs having their markets pulled from under them, their value as a business to be wiped out, and then hoovered up in a fire sale by a multi-national who'll replace them with a generic format network station.

Antenna

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120914787#Comment_120914787

UK DAB stations becoming available in NI had nothing to do with the Northern Ireland Executive or any other decision making within Northern Ireland. So I do not know who it is that did "something right in the North" ?

Also there is little by the way of extra DAB content (not on FM) from within Northern Ireland?. (there is 'Downtown Country' )

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120922110#Comment_120922110

Well, Belfast has 4 DAB Multiplexes on air and I would say at least 3 of them are on air in the whole of NI. Whoever is responsible for DAB implementation in NI, I don't know. The choice is considerable better than in the rural charmes of the Republic of Ireland.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120921007#Comment_120921007

the thing is, that is all coming here to ireland for the fm licenses, it's a question of when and not if and there will be nothing the BAI can do about it because the value of the fm license is decreasing all the time while the costs increase due to regulation and advertising lessens.

the operators simply filling up the DAB capacity can be solved by a limit on the stations an operator can own, that is actually the current case with the FM licenses by where operators in the past have had to sell of stations as we all know and that has happened in the UK as well.

because the UK made some mistakes with the DAB roll out does not mean we need to go down the same route, we can very easy learn from their mistakes.

and actually duke box stations can be quite good if the playlist is updated regularly and it is reasonably wide.

lets be honest, how much complaints have we all saw both on this and other places about much of the speech "content" on stations here?

Shoog

The experience from the UK was that instead of realizing the promise of better quality on which it was initially promoted, they used the increased bandwidth to cram more channels in and the bandwidth was worse than FM. This destroyed it's credibility as a format.

On top of this is the fact that internet radio far surpasses it in almost every way without any of the costs to the transmission system.

Andy From Sligo

I dont know if i ever come across any DAB stations being worse quality than FM ... OK possibly some talk stations lower bitrate or in mono ... but the same with Internet radio , some of them lesser known stations awful bitrate

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120922765#Comment_120922765

That's probably the only issue the have in the UK, low bitrates. In Germany or Switzerland they tend to be way higher, but that means less stations.

Some people complain that Classic FM in the UK has a too low bitrate, and sounds better on FM.

But still, I belong to those who miss DAB once in Ireland. The choice is simply the key. People these days want different sorts of music, and not shallow blabber in between, and DAB offers this.

Absolute, Virgin, Smooth, Capital, they all have various stations of different kinds of music, one thing FM can't offer as it's simply too cumbersome and too expensive.

Shoog

There are so many different internet stations for every taste that it would literally be impossible to better it on DAB. As to quality all the ones I have used are at least equal to cd quality.

In my vehicles I can hotspot and get the same range as at home. Entirely more reliable than FM.

DAB will never come back to Ireland simply on cost grounds, but almost everyone already has a means of accessing internet radio.

Glaceon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120922989#Comment_120922989

Except when you’re in an area of patchy mobile coverage, I regularly have problems with streaming when on the train between Drogheda and Dublin.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120923374#Comment_120923374

Where I am radio coverage is terrible, barely usable in a lot of cases.

L1011

If anything, DAB in NI having no subregions is part of why the Q Network is now basically one station and not 6

end of the road

yet it's listening figures are increasing while FM'S is decreasing.

realistically people prefer more stations over having the highest sound quality, granted the UK does need to be moving away from standard mp2 DAB.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120922555#Comment_120922555

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120922989#Comment_120922989

again, it's not cost that is stopping DAB in ireland, it is regulation and the lack of it to allow full time operations, this information is already in the thread and others discussing this.

in fact DAB has been shown to be of a much lower cost then FM dispite requiring more transmitters for coverage.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120923993#Comment_120923993

it had been networked to various extents for years before this if i recall correctly, so chances are that DAB just brought forward full networking.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120912052#Comment_120912052

Maybe the attitude will change, once BBC Radio 5 and TalkSport are no longer available on MW and BBC Radio 4 is no longer available on LW?

Wishful thinking isn't going to get the BBC onto DAB any more than it did for DTT. Not going to happen and the UK licence payer is certainly not going to fund it.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120914787#Comment_120914787

Choice has to be paid for, who is going to pay and how?

Ireland already has as many radio stations as can be sustained given the current licence fee and advertising income.

limnam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120923374#Comment_120923374

Similar areas would have patchy DAB coverage so it may not make any difference.

Thankfully there's loads of technology/apps etc that can get around almost any of these problems

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120925356#Comment_120925356

only under the current high expensivity model is this the case.

there is actually no evidence to show it is the case outside that model, because there is effectively a bannn on finding out.

as for who would pay for the choice? well whoever would want to provide a station, if anyone, but again there is effectively a bannn on finding out and operators trying.

so ultimately there is absolutely no argument against implementing the legal framework and allowing the stations to decide their business model and what content they think their audience want, and after that, if there is no interest in a specific technology then that is the true market at work.

currently, civil servants are dictating how people can spend their money in relation to radio and what content should be provided, that should not be the case with a commercial market.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120925333#Comment_120925333

I know, but rest assured, BBC Radio, in form of BBC WS is on air on DAB in various EU countries. Who is paying for that I don't know.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120925533#Comment_120925533

Apparently DAB Radio has a very high profit margin, transmission cost is roughly only on tenth of FM. Even if there is only an audience of say 10% it seems to work. However that's only an observation, and no insight.

Take a look at Austria for instance: They've had a draconian state run monopoly on radio broadcasting for centures, the likes one has only seen in communism, - even more interesting that this was actually in a Western country. Even when Russia and Albania allowed commerical radio, Austria sill ran a state monopoly on broadcasting for roughly 8 years. Commerical FM radio still has very low listening figures and a limiting market share in Austria, but they also have a nationwide DAB mux, - albeit small and little choice, but it is there. I'd say listeners there are even fewer, and they still are operating. So my guess the operational cost may be very very low.

limnam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120925870#Comment_120925870

:D :D :D

I think this sums up the thread perfectly.

Shoog

The BBC recently withdrew all access to its services outside of the Iplayer streaming app. They would only sell their content to Irish broadcasters at a significant cost. They go out of their way to restrict access to their transmissions on sat. BBC WS is a British PLC outreach program which doesn't make any money for the corporation.

BBC is only ever going to be generally available in Ireland via Internet radio or via the sat radio channels and a decent sat dish.