Related forums

KomradeBishop

This is just an offhand suggestion: Boards has a lot of low-visibility forums, that could do with greater cross-linking between related forums, so maybe part of the bottom bar listing 'Currently Active Users' and 'Moderators', could have a new 'Related Forums' section added, which links to forums which are similar to the current one.

What is considered 'similar' could be highly subjective and up to the mods, and would not be the same as forum categories - 'related' forums could cross categories, and could cover something as simple as e.g. a type of frequent topic that comes up - especially if, for example, topics tend get moved from one forum to another frequently, that may imply they are related.

For example, a forum like AH can cover loads of different types of topic, and could have as related forums: Television/Music (not infrequent for topics referencing TV/Documentary programs or Music in general to come up); already has link to Politics Cafe; Weather; Cool Vids/Pics/Links; 'Humour'; Sunshine/Lollipops; Nocturnal; Humanities; TLL/TGC (similar types of topics tend to come up); News & Media,

That's just a rather random/subjective selection based on browsing the site index - and I know loads of people will disagree with some of the examples (they are just offhand examples though, not something to debate) - but you get the idea, a very disparate/loosely-related set of forums can be linked, which can help promote visibility between forums.

Beasty

Arguably that's what having different categories caters for. However I take your point - looking at Sports as an example, how many posters viewing Soccer would appreciate we have a Fantasy Sports Arena Forum, or a Football Betting forum elsewhere on the site (or indeed the Boards Football Team forum, although that at least is now within the main sports category)? They may well be tempted to mosey over and start contributing to other parts of the site.

My only reservation is whether we end up with too much noise on the main forum pages. I guess the new site roll out comes into this, and maybe this is something that could be looked at in that context (as I don't see resource been diverted to add new features to the current site)

Black Swan

I am very interested in increasing post and view counts in forums that may currently have low frequencies, and welcome any discussions that may lead to such improvements, provided that each forum's unique levels of standards are not sacrificed. So methinks your topic KomradeBishop merits discussion in Feedback.

KomradeBishop wrote: »

This is just an offhand suggestion: Boards has a lot of low-visibility forums, that could do with greater cross-linking between related forums, so maybe part of the bottom bar listing 'Currently Active Users' and 'Moderators', could have a new 'Related Forums' section added, which links to forums which are similar to the current one.

KomradeBishop wrote: »

For example, a forum like AH can cover loads of different types of topic...

Because almost all topics are eventually covered to some degree in AH, would this mean that AH would list almost all forums on the site as links in this "bottom bar" on a daily basis? Would this defeat the purpose by producing too much links noise?

KomradeBishop wrote: »

What is considered 'similar' could be highly subjective and up to the mods, and would not be the same as forum categories...

I cannot see how this can be practically and uniformly implemented, especially if mods have to manually link each thread in their forum to a topic that might appear in a different forum (or several forums) on the site. To manually do this would be additional work for our voluntary mods, and if they are modding medium to high posting frequency forums, or when handling seasonal peaks with high posting frequencies, to now ask them to manually search and link one or more forums that may or may not have a similar interest in topic would be too labour-intensive and impractical for volunteers. Plus there are no incentives to do so, consequently from a practical standpoint, if approved, I doubt it would happen in actuality.

KomradeBishop

Black Swan wrote: »

Because almost all topics are eventually covered to some degree in AH, would this mean that AH would list almost all forums on the site as links in this "bottom bar" on a daily basis? Would this defeat the purpose by producing too much links noise?

Yes that may be quite likely - I just picked AH, as (given the breadth of topics there) it was the easiest one to give examples for

It would be up to the mod/cmods though, to decide what counts as a related forum - e.g. maybe it would be decided that only forums similar to the 'ethos' of AH would fit (e.g. lighthearted forums may have a similar ethos), not just any forum with similar topics.

It's all up to the mods though, so I don't think there should be a rigid standard on what makes a forum 'similar' - if the list the mods come up with, has too much 'noise', they can just use their own judgement to trim the list.

Black Swan wrote: »

I cannot see how this can be practically and uniformly implemented, especially if mods have to manually link each thread in their forum to a topic that might appear in a different forum (or several forums) on the site. To manually do this would be additional work for our voluntary mods, and if they are modding medium to high posting frequency forums, or when handling seasonal peaks with high posting frequencies, to now ask them to manually search and link one or more forums that may or may not have a similar interest in topic would be too labour-intensive and impractical for volunteers. Plus there are no incentives to do so, consequently from a practical standpoint, if approved, I doubt it would happen in actuality.

Ah, I don't understand what you mean, about mods having to manually link each thread in their forum? I don't suggest anything like that, only a simple list of related forums in the bottom bar (related only to the current subforum, not to individual threads), that are setup and then rarely touched again - it'd be a once-off change, not something mods would have to spend time maintaining.

So, just to repeat for clarity: The 'related forums' list in the bottom bar, would cover the whole forum (the same way the list of moderators do), it wouldn't change based on each thread.

Beasty

Would have thought there would be some way of getting data about where those who typically frequent one forum also post - that's pretty much how online advertising works nowadays - adverts are targeted based on browsing history. Hence if 50% of posters who regularly post in "Horse Racing" also post in "Gambling" there may be a fair chance that many of those currently sticking to Horse Racing could be encouraged to risk losing the shirt off their back over in the Gambling forum (or indeed to get some of the tips they were hoping for in HR over in the Gambling forum)...

Myrddin

I'm fairly sure I remember reading a post years ago, where Dav was mentioning how moving away from vbulletin would allow us to better link different areas of boards together - and indeed, the beta has space on the right hand side under the charter where this kind of thing could be done. So while I don't think we'll see this on this version of boards, it's possible it'll be a part of the next iteration.

Black Swan

KomradeBishop wrote: »

...only a simple list of related forums in the bottom bar (related only to the current subforum, not to individual threads), that are setup and then rarely touched again - it'd be a once-off change, not something mods would have to spend time maintaining.

So, just to repeat for clarity: The 'related forums' list in the bottom bar, would cover the whole forum (the same way the list of moderators do), it wouldn't change based on each thread.

So to use the AH example you provided earlier, because AH covers so many topics that are shared in various degrees across the site, then AH's bar would include almost all forums on the site? Would this be too much linking noise in terms of AH? If so, would AH be included or excluded from the bottom bar design?

Earthhorse

I raised this before and assume it is something they can look at implementing when they roll out the new site:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=63000887

KomradeBishop

Black Swan wrote: »

So to use the AH example you provided earlier, because AH covers so many topics that are shared in various degrees across the site, then AH's bar would include almost all forums on the site? Would this be too much linking noise in terms of AH? If so, would AH be included or excluded from the bottom bar design?

Ya listing all of the forums that could possibly be related to AH, would likely be too much noise alright - so the way this would be done, is the AH mods or CMods, would get together the full list of potentially-related forums, and then just subjectively pare-down the list to a reasonable size, based on the most-fitting forums.

padd b1975

We've just moved into an Olympic year.

I think it's great how during the games we all become expert in some sports that we would barely give a second glance to at any other time.

Maybe this time, instead of allowing it to be discussed in AH, posters could be encouraged to visit the relevant fora and discuss it there-maybe factor in a little relaxation of the rules by the local mods to new posters-make them feel welcome and don't look down on what might seem ill-informed posting....

Who knows, it could breath new life into what are currently ghost-down forums for the most part.

Ken.

padd b1975 wrote: »

We've just moved into an Olympic year.

I think it's great how during the games we all become expert in some sports that we would barely give a second glance to at any other time.

Maybe this time, instead of allowing it to be discussed in AH, posters could be encouraged to visit the relevant fora and discuss it there-maybe factor in a little relaxation of the rules by the local mods to new posters-make them feel welcome and don't look down on what might seem ill-informed posting....

Who knows, it could breath new life into what are currently ghost-down forums for the most part.

Good idea Padd b.

padd b1975

ken wrote: »

Good idea Padd b.

Thanks, I think it's as good as any to breathe a bit of life into other parts of the site.

I hate how so many events are shoe horned through After Hours to the detriment of other forums.

Soccer World/Euros, Olympics, Superbowl, Eurovision Song Contest!! etc etc cannot be allowed come and go without getting the all important AH critique...

Why set up the dedicated forums in the first place, if all you do when they get a chance of a boost in traffic is undermine them by allowing discussion in what is most people's first port of call??

Does not compute for me....

Beasty

Funnily enough the General Sports Forum does burst into life during the build up to the Olympics as well as during the event itself. Other forums such as Athletics/Running, Triathlon/Duayhlon, Boxing, Cycling etc definitely see an influx when relevant events are on. However that's usually from posters who are familiar with the site. I think something that can point the casual.user to relevant fora would be great. I guess under the current format that could be as an announcement with various links. Not sure how this could be improved upon with the proposed new site but I certainly would welcome further suggestions.

stesaurus

Motors has a sub forum for Electric Vehicles that only a few people read. Anything related to EV discussion that gets posted in the main motors section gets shoved into EV to die a death.
I'd like to see more discussion and opinions in the main area so that different users can give their thoughts. Fair enough for topics that only appeal to current EV owners should stay in EV but if there's merit in letting the wider motors section see it then it should stay.
It's similar to the online sub forum in TV. Threads just go there to die in general as people stick to the main forums.
Another option could be cross posting. So that a thread would show up in multiple sections. Might not be technically possible but worth a mention.

Darkglasses

Really good idea in principle at least. Well worth some investigation by the higher ups.

ArmaniJeanss

padd b1975 wrote: »

Soccer World/Euros, Olympics, Superbowl, Eurovision Song Contest!! etc etc cannot be allowed come and go without getting the all important AH critique...

Why set up the dedicated forums in the first place, if all you do when they get a chance of a boost in traffic is undermine them by allowing discussion in what is most people's first port of call??

Does not compute for me....

The afterhours threads aren't particularly worried about the specifics of triple bore rifle shooting or how Belgium are going to switch between 4-5-1 and 4-3-3 against us in the football - the afterhours threads are just fun places for casual discussion of the events.
I don't think encouraging/forcing people to go off to the sailing forum for discussion on the one bit of sailing that they watch every 4 years makes sense.

padd b1975

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

The afterhours threads aren't particularly worried about the specifics of triple bore rifle shooting or how Belgium are going to switch between 4-5-1 and 4-3-3 against us in the football - the afterhours threads are just fun places for casual discussion of the events.
I don't think encouraging/forcing people to go off to the sailing forum for discussion on the one bit of sailing that they watch every 4 years makes sense.

I think with a little latitude from the local mods, those forum's can host light-hearted discussion as easily as anywhere.

AH does not and should not have a monopoly on humourous discussion.

OldGoat

padd b1975 wrote: »

I think with a little latitude from the local mods, those forum's can host light-hearted discussion as easily as anywhere.

AH does not and should not have a monopoly on humourous discussion.

Most forums have a carefully honed and maintained ethos at this point and relaxing the rules periodically will only disturb that equilibrium. If (as a hypothetical) the mods of the curling forum have just been slapping warnings and infractions on the local posters about going off topic on a particularly contentious topic then suddenly have to 'relax' to accommodate a brief influx of jokers then they can no longer justify the previous moderation. Relaxing the rules just muddies the waters.

When a sports post appears in AH the mods of that particular sport tend to find out about it quickly enough. I would suggest that if they want extra traffic then they ask the AH mods and/or the OP to include a link to the relevant forum in the first post. In that way readers have a link to a more detailed/informed forum if required but still have the freedom of the light-hearted forums to post in.

K-9

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

The afterhours threads aren't particularly worried about the specifics of triple bore rifle shooting or how Belgium are going to switch between 4-5-1 and 4-3-3 against us in the football - the afterhours threads are just fun places for casual discussion of the events.
I don't think encouraging/forcing people to go off to the sailing forum for discussion on the one bit of sailing that they watch every 4 years makes sense.

I think tbey opened soccer up for the World Cup, no application for access was needed and it went quite well IIRC, but AH would cater for the more casual observer.

The Olympics is harder again because it probably is even more suited to AH, so many events, love the trampolining myself! People would post about the ones with Irish interest and the more popular ones, but poor old trampolining wouldn't get much. Plus AH is for the funny side too.

Dav

There's an entire Sports category on the site, NOTHING related to the Olympics belongs in After Hours or anywhere else - it belongs in Sports.

"Related Forums" is a thing we're definitely planning on in the new site.

El Guapo!

Dav wrote: »

There's an entire Sports category on the site, NOTHING related to the Olympics belongs in After Hours or anywhere else - it belongs in Sports.

Sure with that logic you may aswell delete AH altogether.
Following your rule of thought, you could say that EVERYTHING that gets posted in AH probably has a more relevant forum it could be posted in.

The Olympics only comes around every 4 years and most people wouldn't have a big interest in gymnastics or diving or whatever. They only have a passing interest because of the Olympics and they wouldn't really want to post in the forums dedicated to those sports. I, personally, don't see the problem with allowing it in AH. And I felt the same when I was modding AH.

Dav

El Guapo! wrote: »

Sure with that logic you may aswell delete AH altogether.
Following your rule of thought, you could say that EVERYTHING that gets posted in AH probably has a more relevant forum it could be posted in.

That's a point I've been making for about 12 or 13 years It's not so big of an issue that I haven't made it site policy or anything - but AH being a "catch all" forum has and continues to hurt the site at the expense of all other more focussed forums on the site.

Beasty

I think the Olympics are more than a sports event though. Perhaps this topic is worthy of a separate thread, but there are reasons why specific Sports forums should be used rather than allowing discussion in more "general" forums.

Firstly "specialist" mods will be more familiar with specific issues affecting that particular sport (doping allegations being perhaps a topical example). In addition the Soccer forum has specific access procedures (for good reason). Should posters be allowed to get round this and post about their favourite sport elsewhere? What about posters who are banned from specific forums? Again should they be allowed to post about that topic elsewhere.

Personally I don't really have an issue with a generic thread in AH about the Olympics. However maybe that should be more about highlighting some of the more light-hearted aspects, and certainly not getting into the details of rules, doping controls and the like. Also if someone wants to have a rant about cyclists they won't get away with it in the Cycling forum, so maybe those threads should be allowed to continue on the likes of AH.

We opened up the Soccer forum for the last World Cup and I think that went well. Maybe we should think about something similar over next summer as not only do we have a Soccer tournament within the Olympics but we also have Ireland participating in the European Championships. However I don't think we should be encouraging anyone to start any in-depth discussions on specific sporting events outside the relevant forums (and I've already mentioned the Olympics already fit neatly into the General Sports Forum, and we have a Winter Sports forum that caters for the Winter Olympics)

padd b1975

Dav wrote: »

There's an entire Sports category on the site, NOTHING related to the Olympics belongs in After Hours or anywhere else - it belongs in Sports.

"Related Forums" is a thing we're definitely planning on in the new site.

It's not just sports though.

Fir a few years now there has been IMHO a farcical situation where there was two virtually identical threads in terms of tone and content running in AH and the Television Forum on the Late Late Toy Show.

The thread on the home forum should be perfectly adequate, but of course Ah has to stick it's nose in....

Lord knows what new users make of it.