Tenant called out fire brigade on Christmas Day.

ZENER

So on Christmas day the fire alarm in our block apartment went off. There was no fire or smoke or any other signs. We suspect it was a smoke detector in one of the apartments triggered by burnt turkey etc.

Anyway one of the tenants (he did not cause the alarm) straight away called the Fire Brigade who attended. He also called us (Landlord) so we went to the block to see what was going on. He didn't tell us that he'd already called 999. So we arrive to find a Fire truck outside and the firemen doing what they do.

The firemen checked things over and reset the fire panel and left.

The local County Council charge 100 euro for attending a fire but charge 500 euro for attending apartment blocks where there is a false alarm.

I suspect we'll have to pay this fee ourselves but would like to get others opinions.

Ken

godtabh

ZENER wrote: »

So on Christmas day the fire alarm in our block apartment went off. There was no fire or smoke or any other signs. We suspect it was a smoke detector in one of the apartments triggered by burnt turkey etc.

Anyway one of the tenants (he did not cause the alarm) straight away called the Fire Brigade who attended. He also called us (Landlord) so we went to the block to see what was going on. He didn't tell us that he'd already called 999. So we arrive to find a Fire truck outside and the firemen doing what they do.

The firemen checked things over and reset the fire panel and left.

The local County Council charge 100 euro for attending a fire but charge 500 euro for attending apartment blocks where there is a false alarm.

I suspect we'll have to pay this fee ourselves but would like to get others opinions.

Ken

Why would you lay it? You didn't call.

Also many insurance policies have fire brigade call out charges covered. Let who ever called the fire brigade sort it out via their insurance or their own pocket.

matrim

The charge is up to him unless your block has a policy that the management company covers it

Del2005

ZENER wrote: »

So on Christmas day the fire alarm in our block apartment went off. There was no fire or smoke or any other signs. We suspect it was a smoke detector in one of the apartments triggered by burnt turkey etc.

Anyway one of the tenants (he did not cause the alarm) straight away called the Fire Brigade who attended. He also called us (Landlord) so we went to the block to see what was going on. He didn't tell us that he'd already called 999. So we arrive to find a Fire truck outside and the firemen doing what they do.

The firemen checked things over and reset the fire panel and left.

The local County Council charge 100 euro for attending a fire but charge 500 euro for attending apartment blocks where there is a false alarm.

I suspect we'll have to pay this fee ourselves but would like to get others opinions.

Ken

Why would you pay when you didn't call?

The bill will go to whoever called the emergency services. Plenty of people have fallen out after a neighbour calls the emergency services for a barn fire and then getting hit with the bill for doing the right thing.

Arbiter of Good Taste

I can't see why you would have to pay this. The tenant messed up, it's his problem.

Do you own the whole block? If not, what was the purpose of ringing you?

The tenant sounds like a bit of a panickey Bob.

Del2005

matrim wrote: »

The charge is up to him unless your block has a policy that the management company covers it

IIRC the excess on the block insurance for my complex is €2k.

theoneeyedman

ZENER wrote: »

The local County Council charge 100 euro for attending a fire but charge 500 euro for attending apartment blocks where there is a false alarm.

I suspect we'll have to pay this fee ourselves but would like to get others opinions.

Ken

Sure that's ridiculous.... You should have started a fire..... You'd have saved E400

ZENER

It's just a large house converted to 3 apartments so no Management Company. We are the first point of call for all issues with the apartments hence he called us.

The insurance on the building does cover such calls but we wondered why we should take the hit. Next thing is where will the bill be sent to I suppose.

Thanks

KEn

Larry the Logster

The Management Company should pay this.

The tenant did the responsible thing, not sure why you would expect him to wait until your responded before calling 999. That could have put lives at risk. In hindsight this wasn't the case but that's irrelevant.

I would also suggest that you get your fire system reviewed - a 'burnt turkey' shouldn't really trigger the full fire alarm system, it should trigger an alarm in that apartment only.

Larry the Logster

Larry the Logster wrote: »

The Management Company should pay this.

The tenant did the responsible thing, not sure why you would expect him to wait until your responded before calling 999. That could have put lives at risk. In hindsight this wasn't the case but that's irrelevant.

I would also suggest that you get your fire system reviewed - a 'burnt turkey' shouldn't really trigger the full fire alarm system, it should trigger an alarm in that apartment only.

Crossed with OPs last post.

Victor

godtabh wrote: »

Why would you lay it? You didn't call.

Del2005 wrote: »

Why would you pay when you didn't call?

The bill will go to whoever called the emergency services. Plenty of people have fallen out after a neighbour calls the emergency services for a barn fire and then getting hit with the bill for doing the right thing.

Wrong. The bill goes to the person who benefits from the service.

Moderator

Potatoeman

ZENER wrote: »

It's just a large house converted to 3 apartments so no Management Company. We are the first point of call for all issues with the apartments hence he called us.

The insurance on the building does cover such calls but we wondered why we should take the hit. Next thing is where will the bill be sent to I suppose.

Thanks

KEn

Get the tennants to exchange numbers and make sure they know the alarm system. Some alarms list zones so it might not be obvious.

If you stick him with the bill don't expect him to ring if there ever is a real fire.

johnnyskeleton

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

I can't see why you would have to pay this. The tenant messed up, it's his problem.

Do you own the whole block? If not, what was the purpose of ringing you?

The tenant sounds like a bit of a panickey Bob.

I disagree. It is the responsibility of the management company to put secure fire safety precautions in place, including, usually, a monitored fire alarm. If the alarm system isnt monitored and a tenant called the fire services then I wouldve though its the management companys responsibility. Failing to have proper fire safety standards is a criminal offence:

http://m.wexfordpeople.ie/news/courts/landlord-failed-to-ensure-safety-in-event-of-fire-30959909.html

I completely empathise with a tenant who calls the firebrigade when there has been a fire alarm going off for more than a few minutes and there is no one on site as designated fire safety officetr.

BabySlam

Section 35 (3) of Fire Services Act 1981,
A fire authority shall be entitled to charge users or beneficiaries of a fire service for services which it provides.

garhjw

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I disagree. It is the responsibility of the management company to put secure fire safety precautions in place, including, usually, a monitored fire alarm. If the alarm system isnt monitored and a tenant called the fire services then I wouldve though its the management companys responsibility. Failing to have proper fire safety standards is a criminal offence:

http://m.wexfordpeople.ie/news/courts/landlord-failed-to-ensure-safety-in-event-of-fire-30959909.html

I completely empathise with a tenant who calls the firebrigade when there has been a fire alarm going off for more than a few minutes and there is no one on site as designated fire safety officetr.

There is no management company. For a small house/block consisting of 3 units I'm not aware of legislation requiring a monitored alarm.

I don't think the ll is responsible for paying.

Ken.

My concern would be it the tenant gets stuck with the bill then next time they won't bother calling the fire brigade and the place burns to the ground.

I'd be sending the bill to the person who called, they made the decision to call without seeing any evidence of a fire. If people called the fire brigade everytime they heard an alarm the fire brigade would spend 24/7 driving around the place attending false alarms.

He could easily have knocked into the two neighbors to check if he was concerned.

Lux23

My fire alarm goes off every time I cook, its very sensitive, if someone called the fire brigade every time it went off we would be destitute! He could have knocked on all the other doors, there are only three flats in the place.

LeeLooLee

Is he by any chance a foreign national, OP? The reason I ask is that I live in Spain and the Spanish call the emergency services at the drop of a hat. It's totally normal there to head to A&E with a sore throat or to call the fire brigade because there's an alarm going off and it's annoying you. The thinking is that you shouldn't ever risk it and you should act with even the slightest doubt. I have to say, I'm surprised there's a callout charge in Ireland. I didn't know that. I understand wanting to prevent timewasting, but it must surely also encourage people NOT to call when they probably should.

LeeLooLee

LeeLooLee wrote: »

Is he by any chance a foreign national, OP? The reason I ask is that I live in Spain and the Spanish call the emergency services at the drop of a hat. It's totally normal there to head to A&E with a sore throat or to call the fire brigade because there's an alarm going off and it's annoying you. The thinking is that you shouldn't ever risk it and you should act with even the slightest doubt. I have to say, I'm surprised there's a callout charge in Ireland. I didn't know that. I understand wanting to prevent timewasting, but it must surely also encourage people NOT to call when they probably should.

They all change and some charge more than in the op, it's 750 euro in some parts of the country if a fire brigade is called. You would want to be sure they are needed before calling them.

Mrs OBumble

LeeLooLee wrote: »

I'm surprised there's a callout charge in Ireland. I didn't know that. I understand wanting to prevent timewasting, but it must surely also encourage people NOT to call when they probably should.

There's only a call-out charge in the relatively less-civilized parts of Ireland. Dublin (and I think some other places) don't have a charge.

It's pure madness: I spent a while working in social housing, and few times got calls from tenants about real fires: they were too scared to call the fire service themselves because they were worried about the bill!

OP, the bill goes to the property owner. Yours to pay, unless you have a clause otherwise in the lease. Get your alarm system serviced so that it only goes off when there's a real fire.

exaisle

A pragmatic landlord would probably pay 50% and pass the other 50% to the tenant, or inform him that it will be deducted from his deposit at the end of the tenancy..... If he's a good tenant, it's worth paying €250 to retain a degree of goodwill.

Lux23

exaisle wrote: »

A pragmatic landlord would probably pay 50% and pass the other 50% to the tenant, or inform him that it will be deducted from his deposit at the end of the tenancy..... If he's a good tenant, it's worth paying €250 to retain a degree of goodwill.

I don't think that would be legal, but then the law and pragmatism aren't exactly suit to each other.

Victor

Oh, who triggered the alarm? The alarm probably has a log.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

There's only a call-out charge in the relatively less-civilized parts of Ireland. Dublin (and I think some other places) don't have a charge.

It's pure madness: I spent a while working in social housing, and few times got calls from tenants about real fires: they were too scared to call the fire service themselves because they were worried about the bill!

OP, the bill goes to the property owner. Yours to pay, unless you have a clause otherwise in the lease. Get your alarm system serviced so that it only goes off when there's a real fire.

The call out charge is 500 euro in Dublin.

I don't see how it's the property owners responsibility, they didn't call or ask for it to be called it was the tenants rash decision. Alarms go off regularly when cooking etc it's fairly normal thing to happen having it services would stop that.

ZENER

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

There's only a call-out charge in the relatively less-civilized parts of Ireland. Dublin (and I think some other places) don't have a charge.

There are very few places now that don't charge and Dublin isn't one of them. Link.

Is he by any chance a foreign national, OP?

The tenant is Eastern European.

As it's only a small premises the panel is a basic non-monitored unit but is up to spec and serviced regularly. It's in a place where all the tenants can access - the front hallway beside the entrance.

Anyway until the bill arrives we won't know how much it will be, hopefully not 500 though !!

Ken

colm_mcm

BabySlam wrote: »

Section 35 (3) of Fire Services Act 1981,
A fire authority shall be entitled to charge users or beneficiaries of a fire service for services which it provides.

That would be for putting out a fire?

beauf

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I disagree. It is the responsibility of the management company to put secure fire safety precautions in place, including, usually, a monitored fire alarm. If the alarm system isnt monitored and a tenant called the fire services then I wouldve though its the management companys responsibility. Failing to have proper fire safety standards is a criminal offence:

http://m.wexfordpeople.ie/news/courts/landlord-failed-to-ensure-safety-in-event-of-fire-30959909.html

I completely empathise with a tenant who calls the firebrigade when there has been a fire alarm going off for more than a few minutes and there is no one on site as designated fire safety officetr.

I'm curious why you think that link is relevant as there is a whole back story in that link about the fuse being removed from the alarm. Then there being a fire the next day. Also it really doesn't mention that monitored fire alarm is a requirement. So wheres the relevance?

beauf

ken wrote: »

My concern would be it the tenant gets stuck with the bill then next time they won't bother calling the fire brigade and the place burns to the ground.

In one of the links someone removed the fuse. :eek:

return guide

A smoke detector should not be installed in an apartment, it must be a heat detector. This will eliminate the false alarms caused by toast etc.

This is a requirement of IS 3218:2013 and the landlord/building owner is responsible for complying with this standard whether they know it or not.

There is no requirement for the fire alarm system to monitored by an alarm receiving center (ARC).

In my expierence the landlord or management company will pay the FB charges and then implement a protocol for any further fire alarm activations.

I hope this helps.

beauf

return guide wrote: »

A smoke detector should not be installed in an apartment, it must be a heat detector. This will eliminate the false alarms caused by toast etc.

This is a requirement of IS 3218:2013 and the landlord/building owner is responsible for complying with this standard whether they know it or not.

There is no requirement for the fire alarm system to monitored by an alarm receiving center (ARC).

In my expierence the landlord or management company will pay the FB charges and then implement a protocol for any further fire alarm activations.

I hope this helps.

Good advice.

Good opportunity to check all the safety regs at the same time.