6N 2016 - build-up thread

thomond2006

leakyboots wrote: »

Balls.ie is a woeful clickbait website that reads/looks like a bunch of 16 year old lads are running it

Joe.ie is the same.

stephen_n

Scotland haven't shown anything yet to suggest they're capable of more than one off performances. It's hard to see them having the consistency of performance to win the tournament.

Losty Dublin

thomond2006 wrote: »

Joe.ie is the same.

Agree with both of you. It's real COYBIG stuff at the best of times.

CMOTDibbler

stephen_n wrote: »

Scotland haven't shown anything yet to suggest they're capable of more than one off performances. It's hard to see them having the consistency of performance to win the tournament.

I find it hard to understand why people are so quick to dismiss Scotland. They have a world class coach and some excellent players. They are on an upward curve and by no means are at the end of that.

thomond2006

thomond2006 wrote: »

Joe.ie is the same.

I feel sorry for the lad working at Joe that has to write a Conor Mcgregor article every day

andymx11

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I feel sorry for the lad working at Joe that has to write a Conor Mcgregor article every day

And then we have the 42 which I actually love. Serious man crush on Murray. Need to stop tweeting him like he's my mate..

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

andymx11 wrote: »

And then we have the 42 which I actually love. Serious man crush on Murray. Need to stop tweeting him like he's my mate..

He's quite good at interacting with people though. I mean, it's not like he's a world famous celebrity but some people on twitter are there for self promotion and nothing else.

He mentioned the Second Captains 6 Nations special today and they thanked him and I was thinking I wish they'd get him on to talk about rugby occasionally instead of Shane Horgan and Gerry Thornley all the time. It wouldn't be a conflict of interest issue, would it? I can't imagine the 42 is serious competition for the Irish Times.

andymx11

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

He's quite good at interacting with people though. I mean, it's not like he's a world famous celebrity but some people on twitter are there for self promotion and nothing else.

He mentioned the Second Captains 6 Nations special today and they thanked him and I was thinking I wish they'd get him on to talk about rugby occasionally instead of Shane Horgan and Gerry Thornley all the time. It wouldn't be a conflict of interest issue, would it? I can't imagine the 42 is serious competition for the Irish Times.

Yea he seems very down to earth- again as you said he's not a superstar but always has time when you ask a question.

Na wouldn't think it would be a conflict of interest. Would love to see him on it. he got a few mins here and there for TV3 during the World Cup and I thought he did good. He could do well on a more structured show.

English Lurker

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I find it hard to understand why people are so quick to dismiss Scotland. They have a world class coach and some excellent players. They are on an upward curve and by no means are at the end of that.

I wouldn't be quick to dismiss Scotland, but the step between routinely losing tight games against the big guys and winning enough to be a Six Nations dark horse is a massive one.

For Scotland to win three games would be a huge step forwards for them imo and rather unlikely if they don't beat England first up. And that still wouldn't put them anywhere near winning it most years.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

andymx11 wrote: »

Yea he seems very down to earth- again as you said he's not a superstar but always has time when you ask a question.

Na wouldn't think it would be a conflict of interest. Would love to see him on it. he got a few mins here and there for TV3 during the World Cup and I thought he did good. He could do well on a more structured show.

I meant more on the podcast but if the TV show is on over the 6 Nations they should totally get him on that too.

Scythica

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35478177

England 23 confirmed, Clifford Devoto and Hill to all play at some point presumably.

Clifford is talked pretty highly off over here but I don't know too much about him. Seems to be similar to Underhill.

Surprised at Devoto, he struggles to start for Bath over Eastmond.

turnikett1

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I find it hard to understand why people are so quick to dismiss Scotland. They have a world class coach and some excellent players. They are on an upward curve and by no means are at the end of that.

Because it's the same every year. Heroic defeats, gallant losers, games in the bag then thrown away, etc. I really really want them to do well, I almost wouldn't mind if they beat Ireland (though I'd prefer if they beat England or Wales!). I have a feeling that they might scalp France this year.

Also, I'm not sure if Cotter is a world class coach. He's good for sure, and I like what he's doing... but so far, nothing amazing. He needs to turn this positivity and optimism into results or it's worth nothing. It's been 16 years now... Scotland's day must come eventually! I really thought it was last year, against France then Wales...

CMOTDibbler

turnikett1 wrote: »

Because it's the same every year. Heroic defeats, gallant losers, games in the bag then thrown away, etc. I really really want them to do well, I almost wouldn't mind if they beat Ireland (though I'd prefer if they beat England or Wales!). I have a feeling that they might scalp France this year.

Also, I'm not sure if Cotter is a world class coach. He's good for sure, and I like what he's doing... but so far, nothing amazing. He needs to turn this positivity and optimism into results or it's worth nothing. It's been 16 years now... Scotland's day must come eventually! I really thought it was last year, against France then Wales...

Well Cotter is only getting started at international level so the only thing we have to go by is his club record which is pretty damn good. If he's not world class, he's certainly the best coach that Scotland have had in the last decade and it's coinciding with probably the best set of players they've had in the same period.

They certainly frightened France last year and Wales were lucky to get the win as well. As English Lurker says, it's a big ask for them to be tournament dark horses but imo they are a huge banana skin in waiting for the unwary.

The point is, it's not a given that we will beat Scotland.

CMOTDibbler

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Well Cotter is only getting started at international level so the only thing we have to go by is his club record which is pretty damn good. If he's not world class, he's certainly the best coach that Scotland have had in the last decade and it's coinciding with probably the best set of players they've had in the same period.

They certainly frightened France last year and Wales were lucky to get the win as well. As English Lurker says, it's a big ask for them to be tournament dark horses but imo they are a huge banana skin in waiting for the unwary.

The point is, it's not a given that we will beat Scotland.

Scotland could have beaten France, but France despite being poor looked in control for most of that game.

As for Wales, they more often scrape those kinds of wins, and Scotland generally loose those tight encounters. I wouldn't call it luck when it's just the norm in those scenario's.

Scotland *could* end up having a really good six nations, but there is very little evidence to suggest that they will.

What they showed against Australia is that on any given day they can be a damn good side, but they lack anything approaching consistency.

What worries me however is that if we go into the last weekend and happen to be on for the slam, I reckon Scotland will completely bloody show up to banana skin us!

errlloyd

Wales team is mental!

Evans, Baldwin, Lee
Charteris, AWJ
Warburton (6), Faletau, Tipuric

Davies, Biggar
Roberts Davies
James, Anscombe, North.

Owens, Jenkins, Francis
Davies Lydiate
Williams, Pristland, Cuthbert.


Liam Williams the big loser?

Very strong side

CMOTDibbler

Deleted User wrote: »

Very strong side

Cuthbert on the bench.

Hopefully he gets on and has his customary brain fart

thomond2006

Gareth Davies is IMO the most dangerous player in the Welsh 9-15.

errlloyd

errlloyd wrote: »

Wales team is mental!

Evans, Baldwin, Lee
Charteris, AWJ
Warburton (6), Faletau, Tipuric

Davies, Biggar
Roberts Davies
James, Anscombe, North.

Owens, Jenkins, Francis
Davies Lydiate
Williams, Pristland, Cuthbert.


Liam Williams the big loser?

Out of their pack I'd take

Lee, AWJ, Warburton over their counterparts on our team.

Backs though - I'd take Roberts, Biggar (if Jackson starts), North, Davies.


It's a strong team, we've a potentially strong team too.

molloyjh

That is a very strong Welsh side. I'm even more nervous now....

stephen_n

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I find it hard to understand why people are so quick to dismiss Scotland. They have a world class coach and some excellent players. They are on an upward curve and by no means are at the end of that.

Possibly because the exact same was said going into the 6N last season. Scotland are well capable of winning matches, of causing problems for any of the other teams but have demonstrated nothing to suggest they will win 4 or 5 matches.

CMOTDibbler

stephen_n wrote: »

Possibly because the exact same was said going into the 6N last season. Scotland are well capable of winning matches, of causing problems for any of the other teams but have demonstrated nothing to suggest they will win 4 or 5 matches.

Last 6N was too early in Cotter's tenure for him to have had any real influence. He has a 6N and a relatively* successful RWC campaign behind him now and you'd expect them to be aiming a notch or two higher up the food chain realistically.

*Relative to the other five nations.

turnikett1

Well, plausibly, they're the type of team that COULD get a slam. I mean, they CAN beat any of the other 5 nations on a given day. I still haven't forgotten 2011. But as others said, it's consistency that's needed. And discipline. I think Scotland's biggest flaw is getting too ahead of themselves when they're doing well, then bottling it. I think over the WC they showed that they are a very capable attacking side - perhaps the most expansive in the NH? But they're let down by poor discipline and an often sloppy defence.

I concur though that Cotter is the best coach they've had in yonks, and this is their best player set too. I have a feeling that they will get at least 2 wins this 6N - and that one of them might be against us! (Or France, I'd much prefer if it was against France. Don't see them beating England or Wales to be honest)

Also haven't the Italians got a new coach? Anyone know the craic with him?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Scotland should have won a couple of their games last year. They played well but it always seemed like they had been training for 50/60 minute games rather than 80 minute ones. Whether that was a fitness thing or a mental thing, I don't know. They were much improved in that respect once the WC came around and some would argue they really should have beaten Australia, some would argue Australia were poor that day. Point being they did as well as any of the other 6 Nations teams in the WC. I don't think they'll win the whole thing but I think they'll beat Italy and might surprise us, or someone else.

stephen_n

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Last 6N was too early in Cotter's tenure for him to have had any real influence. He has a 6N and a relatively* successful RWC campaign behind him now and you'd expect them to be aiming a notch or two higher up the food chain realistically.

*Relative to the other five nations.

Yeah and I'd say they are well capable of taking a few scalps this year, just think the jump to winning the championship from there is massive.

English Lurker

Scythica wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35478177

England 23 confirmed, Clifford Devoto and Hill to all play at some point presumably.

Clifford is talked pretty highly off over here but I don't know too much about him. Seems to be similar to Underhill.

Surprised at Devoto, he struggles to start for Bath over Eastmond.

Clifford was an age grade 8 who's played all along the back row for Quins in the last couple of seasons. Powerful, pacy, decent hands. Not good enough over the ball in defence to fit the current model of a 7 though.

Devoto's a bit left-field all right but I'm fairly pleased he's there. He certainly has the raw materials to be of interest and if Jones wants to dig deep to find players who fit what he wants, good on him.

Losty Dublin

Mods, if you are reading this but could I do the Ireland Wales preview?

swiwi_

Here's an Ocker preview

molloyjh

swiwi_ wrote: »

Here's an Ocker preview

Wouldn't disagree with much there. I think Ireland will finish 2nd or 3rd depending on how Jones gets on with England. If Joe could manage another 6 Nations title with the injury issues we have up front that would be pretty amazing.

Buer

Listened to a section of the Off The Ball live show last night. I had the misfortune to tune in as they were doing a Q&A with Tony Ward on his career. The bloke would eat himself if he was made of chocolate.

On speaking about his career playing club rugby in Limerick, he stated that other teams and fans used refer to himself as "The Movie Star" before pronouncing that he was the "BOD of the day". He can't go two minutes without saying something that would make you roll your eyes.

Aside from that, it was a relatively interesting show. I'd like them to mix up their guest a little (Toland, BOD, Galwey, Wood and Ward) but overall decent fare. Overall impression is that we shouldn't expect Ireland to alter their plan much at all and also that Wales are looking very strong and settled going into the tournament.

CMOTDibbler

Buer wrote: »

Listened to a section of the Off The Ball live show last night. I had the misfortune to tune in as they were doing a Q&A with Tony Ward on his career. The bloke would eat himself if he was made of chocolate.

On speaking about his career playing club rugby in Limerick, he stated that other teams and fans used refer to himself as "The Movie Star" before pronouncing that he was the "BOD of the day". He can't go two minutes without saying something that would make you roll your eyes.

Aside from that, it was a relatively interesting show. I'd like them to mix up their guest a little (Toland, BOD, Galwey, Wood and Ward) but overall decent fare. Overall impression is that we shouldn't expect Ireland to alter their plan much at all and also that Wales are looking very strong and settled going into the tournament.

You missed the start which included BOD and Dwayne Peel. Some of the stories were laugh out loud funny and Dwayne Peel was very entertaining.

Tony Ward was bottled cringe.

Buer

Buer wrote: »

Listened to a section of the Off The Ball live show last night. I had the misfortune to tune in as they were doing a Q&A with Tony Ward on his career. The bloke would eat himself if he was made of chocolate.

On speaking about his career playing club rugby in Limerick, he stated that other teams and fans used refer to himself as "The Movie Star" before pronouncing that he was the "BOD of the day". He can't go two minutes without saying something that would make you roll your eyes.

He'd a fine career and no taking away from that but as a pundit and commentator he is just awful. I have no idea how he's fashioned a career out of it.

stadedublinois

France have the team to face Italy. No real surprises.

Médard ; Bonneval, Fickou, Danty, Vakatawa ; (o) Plisson, (m) S. Bézy ; Lauret, Picamoles, Chouly ; Maestri, Jedrasiak ; Slimani, Guirado (cap), Ben Arous.

Chat, Atonio, Poirot, Flanquart, Y. Camara, Machenaud, Doussain, Mermoz.

Only real question over the last few days seemed to be whether Flanquart would start in second row with Camara at 7 or Chouly at 7 with Jedrasiak in the second row.

former total

Four new caps in the French XV (I think?). Fair play to Noves, he's not afraid to makes changes.

Medard must be setting some sort of record for the number of times a player has been dropped and recalled.

former total

Four new caps in the French XV (I think?). Fair play to Noves, he's not afraid to makes changes.

Medard must be setting some sort of record for the number of times a player has been dropped and recalled.

thomond2006

Vakatawa starts despite not playing a minute of 15s for IIRC at least two years.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

England team for Scotland match.



Pretty much what I would have expected to see. Jones has named 3, THREE! vice captains alongside Hartley.

https://twitter.com/thepaulwilliams/status/695202258556948480

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

England team for Scotland match.



Pretty much what I would have expected to see. Jones has named 3, THREE! vice captains alongside Hartley.

https://twitter.com/thepaulwilliams/status/695202258556948480

Anticipating a few sin bins? :pac:

Sangre

Quite a conservative starting 15 for England.

awec

What do the England fans feel about Farrell at 12 and Haskell at 7?

sydthebeat

england going against the zeitgeist by playing two 6's

thomond2006

Deleted User wrote: »

Anticipating a few sin bins? :pac:

70 minute vice-captain, 10 minute captain.

awec

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35486219?utm_content=%23Rugby&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

"England and Saracens winger Chris Ashton will miss the entire Six Nations after losing his appeal against a 10-week ban for making contact with the eyes of Ulster's Luke Marshall."

awec

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35486219?utm_content=%23Rugby&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

"England and Saracens winger Chris Ashton will miss the entire Six Nations after losing his appeal against a 10-week ban for making contact with the eyes of Ulster's Luke Marshall."

I was actually looking forward to seeing Ashton in the mix. I love to hate him.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Scotland team. Again, no surprises. Interesting to see how much Schmidt is accused of being conservative but bar France who are pretty much rebuilding none of the other team's selections have been anything other than what we were expecting.

irishbucsfan

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Scotland team. Again, no surprises. Interesting to see how much Schmidt is accused of being conservative but bar France who are pretty much rebuilding none of the other team's selections have been anything other than what we were expecting.

Are you kidding? They've moved Tommy Seymour from the right wing to the left wing!

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Are you kidding? They've moved Tommy Seymour from the right wing to the left wing!

OMG you're right. Vern "maverick" Cotter strikes again!

English Lurker

awec wrote: »

What do the England fans feel about Farrell at 12 and Haskell at 7?

Glum acceptance, disappointment and muted curiousity. It's not how most of us would do it, but we're not the England coach, so we're going to wait and see how it goes. The performance is far more important than the selection anyway.

The most optimistic thing most have to say about it is that it's solely a response to how little time he has with them before the first game and that we're sure to see a better England team in a year... personally, seeing is believing there.