Returning an item

First Up

After the Christmas present buying chaos, I found I had two copies of a book - both bought in the same shop. I went back today with one copy and the receipt but was told that as the item is now on sale (50% markdown) I would only get a refund or credit of €7.50 instead of the €15 I paid on Thursday last.

There was a queue behind me and I wasn't getting into a row for €7.50 so I just gave them the book with my compliments and walked out.

They have lost me as a customer for this piece of disastrous customer relations but I was wondering after if this is even legal on their part?

drunkmonkey

Your not entitled to any refund so you done ok under the circumstances. They could have just refused to return it.

L1011

100% legal, as would telling you to get stuffed.

If they have a posted returns policy for unwanted items it will inevitably cover this scenario also.

First Up

L1011 wrote:

100% legal, as would telling you to get stuffed.

Fair enough, although telling customers to get stuffed is hardly a policy designed to bring them back.

First Up

drunkmonkey wrote:

Your not entitled to any refund so you done ok under the circumstances. They could have just refused to return it.

I told them to shove it so they got to keep the whole €15 - which they can offset against the future business I'll be taking elsewhere.

drunkmonkey

First Up wrote: »

I told them to shove it so they got to keep the whole €15 - which they can offset against the future business I'll be taking elsewhere.

Same rule apply in any shop your acting a bit childish by boycotting the shop but anyone in retail is well used to this kind of behaviour, would have made more sense to swap it for a book that's now half price as well, it's the same thing.
Go back and get your book exchanged, talk to the manger and tell them you were disgruntled, they'll understand and appreciate your honesty.

davo10

To be fair to book shops, I would imagine it is difficult to take back an unwanted book and give the purchaser their money back/credit note. What's to say that the customer hadn't read the book in the couple of days since they bought it? It think you spat the dummy op, if you want your money, go back and apologise, maybe swop it for another book. Remember, this falls into the"change of mind" category and there is therefore absolutely no obligation on them to do anything for you, they were being quite good by offering you anything.

Colser

Id have expected a refund also OP? Did it say anything on the receipt about their refund policy?

DivingDuck

First Up wrote: »

They have lost me as a customer for this piece of disastrous customer relations but I was wondering after if this is even legal on their part?

This is standard policy. Retailers are under no obligation to accept items bought onsite (as opposed to online, which is different) for return unless they are in some way defective or the item was mis-sold by them.

You can, of course, choose to take your business elsewhere, but be aware that many retailers will not take such returns at all. In my own experience, being refunded the current price rather than the purchase price has always been standard operating procedure. As someone else pointed out, an exchange might also have been possible, but that's obviously not going to happen now.

First Up

drunkmonkey wrote:

Same rule apply in any shop your acting a bit childish by boycotting the shop but anyone in retail is well used to this kind of behaviour, would have made more sense to swap it for a book that's now half price as well, it's the same thing. Go back and get your book exchanged, talk to the manger and tell them you were disgruntled, they'll understand and appreciate your honesty.

I don't think it childish to take my business to where it is appreciated.

They already know I'm disgruntled and they have the book so I'll leave them to reflect on the merits of their policies.

First Up

Colser wrote:

Id have expected a refund also OP? Did it say anything on the receipt about their refund policy?

Didn't care enough to look. Either they treat customers properly or they don't; the small print isn't the issue.

Its only a few Euro so no big deal. My question was about the legality of an item being devalued by 50% because they decided to put it on sale.

davo10

First Up wrote: »

I don't think it childish to take my business to where it is appreciated.

They already know I'm disgruntled and they have the book so I'll leave them to reflect on the merits of their policies.

They can sell your book again as you gave it to them. I really don't see any benefit for you in your action, you are one customer among perhaps thousands or even tens of thousands each year.

davo10

First Up wrote: »

Didn't care enough to look. Either they treat customers properly or they don't; the small print isn't the issue.

Its only a few Euro so no big deal. My question was about the legality of an item being devalued by 50% because they decided to put it on sale.

Legally they didn't have to give you anything, 50% is better than 0%.

DivingDuck

First Up wrote: »

Didn't care enough to look. Either they treat customers properly or they don't; the small print isn't the issue.

How are you defining "properly", when this is what all shops do?

Out of interest, do you (or does anyone) know of any shop where a customer can return non-faulty goods after they've been reduced and obtain the original purchase price?

I've never experienced this, and if there is such a place, I would be interested to shop there.

First Up

davo10 wrote:

They can sell your book again as you gave it to them. I really don't see any benefit for you in your action, you are one customer among perhaps thousands or even tens of thousands each year.

My action was not about getting benefit. I chose not to do business with a shop that placed a higher value on €7.50 than on having a satisfied customer.
Their choice - my choice.

drunkmonkey

First Up wrote: »

I don't think it childish to take my business to where it is appreciated.

They already know I'm disgruntled and they have the book so I'll leave them to reflect on the merits of their policies.

It's nothing to do with being appreciated, what you done was stupid and achieved nothing only make you look like a hot headed clown, seen it tons of times, throwing a strop like the person behind the counter gives a fiddlers, anyone who witnessed it probably passed comment at checkout about the rude person and how do you put up with people like that.
Not having a go but you could have really handled it better. I'd go to the manger if your a good customer, you'd be surprised they might do something for you. It's not to late to save face, they'll understand people can get lost in the rage when not getting their own way.

Colser

First Up wrote: »

Didn't care enough to look. Either they treat customers properly or they don't; the small print isn't the issue.

Its only a few Euro so no big deal. My question was about the legality of an item being devalued by 50% because they decided to put it on sale.

I would have thought that the small print would be the issue tbh.

DivingDuck

First Up wrote: »

My action was not about getting benefit. I chose not to do business with a shop that placed a higher value on €7.50 than on having a satisfied customer.
Their choice - my choice.

Policies are in place for a reason and apply across the board. Do you think you're the only person who wanted to return a marked-down item that day, that month, or that year?

It's not a case of one €7.50 transaction. If they do it for you, they'll have to do it for everyone, and it will work out far more costly than the loss of a single customer, as most customers understand that this is standard policy and are more than prepared to accept it.

First Up

DivingDuck wrote:

Out of interest, do you (or does anyone) know of any shop where a customer can return non-faulty goods after they've been reduced and obtain the original purchase price?

If an item can be returned, the refund should be for the amount paid. Mark downs are temporary selling ploys and prices go back up. In real terms the item was worth the same today as last Thursday.

mickmackmcgoo

DivingDuck wrote:

I've never experienced this, and if there is such a place, I would be interested to shop there.

Tesco will give you full purchase price as a refund. If you bought a product for 20 euro a week ago and it was 10 today and you wanted to return it you would get the full 20 back -they operate a 28 return policy . If it's faulty or you change your mind,once it's in perfect condition -in box etc they will give you a full refund not the new discounted price

Duckjob

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Your not entitled to any refund so you done ok under the circumstances. They could have just refused to return it.

L011 wrote:

100% legal, as would telling you to get stuffed.

Not necessarily correct.

The seller would not be obligated to take the item back under the Sale of Goods Act since what they sold is not defective.

However, if the seller has a published returns policy then they would be bound by this policy since its terms could reasonably be considered in law to form part of the contract of the sale. ie. the terms of the return policy may have helped induce the buyer to enter the transaction.

Apart from the fact that it's generally not considered good business to tell your customers to get stuffed :pac:

DivingDuck

First Up wrote: »

If an item can be returned, the refund should be for the amount paid. Mark downs are temporary selling ploys and prices go back up. In real terms the item was worth the same today as last Thursday.

That's not an example. That's your opinion.

mickmackmcgoo wrote: »

Tesco will give you full purchase price as a refund. If you bought a product for 20 euro a week ago and it was 10 today and you wanted to return it you would get the full 20 back -they operate a 28 return policy . If it's faulty or you change your mind,once it's in perfect condition -in box etc they will give you a full refund not the new discounted price

That is an example, and I am incredibly surprised to hear it!

jhegarty

First Up wrote: »

Didn't care enough to look. Either they treat customers properly or they don't; the small print isn't the issue.

Its only a few Euro so no big deal. My question was about the legality of an item being devalued by 50% because they decided to put it on sale.

You legal exactly was exactly €0

They did you a favor by offering the €7.50

First Up

DivingDuck wrote:

It's not a case of one €7.50 transaction. If they do it for you, they'll have to do it for everyone, and it will work out far more costly than the loss of a single customer, as most customers understand that this is standard policy and are more than prepared to accept it.

What is costly about giving someone their money back?

L1011

Duckjob wrote: »

Not necessarily correct.

The seller would not be obligated to take the item back under the Sale of Goods Act since what they sold is not defective.

However, if the seller has a published returns policy then they would be bound by this policy since its terms could reasonably be considered in law to form part of the contract of the sale. ie. the terms of the return policy may have helped induce the buyer to enter the transaction.

Apart from the fact that it's generally not considered good business to tell your customers to get stuffed :pac:

I'd be willing to lay money that if they have a published returns policy they were following it to the letter.

Retail staff have customers throw strops all the time in front of them - they rarely carry through their "never shopping here again!" threat though.

First Up

drunkmonkey wrote:

It's nothing to do with being appreciated, what you done was stupid and achieved nothing only make you look like a hot headed clown, seen it tons of times, throwing a strop like the person behind the counter gives a fiddlers, anyone who witnessed it probably passed comment at checkout about the rude person and how do you put up with people like that. Not having a go but you could have really handled it better. I'd go to the manger if your a good customer, you'd be surprised they might do something for you. It's not to late to save face, they'll understand people can get lost in the rage when not getting their own way.

drunkmonkey wrote:

It's nothing to do with being appreciated, what you done was stupid and achieved nothing only make you look like a hot headed clown, seen it tons of times, throwing a strop like the person behind the counter gives a fiddlers, anyone who witnessed it probably passed comment at checkout about the rude person and how do you put up with people like that. Not having a go but you could have really handled it better. I'd go to the manger if your a good customer, you'd be surprised they might do something for you. It's not to late to save face, they'll understand people can get lost in the rage when not getting their own way.

No rage; no strop was thrown and no rudeness. I simply said "then you can keep it", put the book on the counter and left.

First Up

jhegarty wrote:

You legal exactly was exactly €0

As they say, there are people (and shops) that know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

First Up

DivingDuck wrote:

That's not an example. That's your opinion.

I didn't say it was an example. It is just a fact. A retail price quoted is at the discretion of a retailer and is designed to maximise return - a combination of margin and turnover. Discounts are temporary.

If a shop has a refunds policy, it should honour it by giving the customer back what they paid.

At least they should do it if they want to keep the customer.

DivingDuck

First Up wrote: »

What is costly about giving someone their money back?

The shop expected to sell x units at €15 before reducing the item to €7.50.
If you return your item and get back your €15, they've sold x-1 units @ €15, and will have to re-sell the item for €7.50, so they're down €7.50 on their projected turnover. If one person does that, no big deal. If fifty people do that, they have a problem.

A shop that allows people to return reduced items for full price seems likely to lead to a slew of people returning their item, getting back the pre-sale price, then re-buying it in the sale at a lower price, guaranteeing the problem I mentioned in the previous paragraph on a large scale.

That's not what you were trying to do, which I completely understand. But how is the shop assistant to know you weren't one of those people?

...And if you think there aren't people out there who would do this, consider the physical fights which have occurred over the mark-down food items in Tesco. There are absolutely people who would take massive advantage of a system like this.

davo10

First Up wrote: »

What is costly about giving someone their money back?

Full amount is refunded then customer buys 2 books at 50% of normal cost. Shop has lost one book on the transaction. That costs.

mickmackmcgoo

DivingDuck wrote:

...And if you think there aren't people out there who would do this, consider the physical fights which have occurred over the mark-down food items in Tesco. There are absolutely people who would take massive advantage of a system like this.

Spot on there. I worked in Tesco electrical department and people often returned an item which had since been marked down ,they got a refund and simply bought the item again at the reduced price and were upfront about it as they were aware of the return policy