My dog attacked me

PlainP

Sweetemotion wrote: »

I feel sorry for this dog and also your father, it's like you want to put this dog down no matter what and just came to boards. To justify your actions so you can have peace of mind.

Did you read the full thread? Did you read all of the op's posts?

I really wonder why people bother posting in threads if they don't read them properly.

DBB

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Be honest op you hate this dog and he can feel that emotion.

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Do you think the op loves this dog? Op shouldn't have a dog and I hope never brings one into their home again.

Sweetemotion,
Please rein in such emotive posting. It does nothing for your argument, rather it will cause an argument. You're making a lot of assumptions about the op, and I'll remind you that there is an expectation in this forum that posters treat each other with respect. Argue your point by all means, but please refrain from making jibes at the op, or anyone else.
Do not reply to this post on thread.
Thanks,
DBB

nuckeythompson

Sweetemotion wrote:

Be honest op you hate this dog and he can feel that emotion.

Can you read? He is looking for help

Pkiernan

This dog needs to be put down.

Dog owners should be held civilly and criminally responsible for the actions of their animals.

Montgolfier

My 2 cents is watch the dog whisperer episodes. I don't buy into all the throw a load of money at the situation no matter how much you love the dog the bill could be in the thousands. The dog is male 4 year old he could agressive due to sexual frustration.
Have you considered neutering the poor fella or sent him to stud.

The only other way to guarantee it won't happen again is euthanasia. Tough option but might be the best and least stressful all round.

irish_goat

Interesting thread and some good responses in here. Would echo the other posters in recommending a trip to the vet as a starter and then enquire about a behaviourist in your area. The missus is a vet and is quite interested in behavioural issues but recognises she needs more training. To make up for it they organise a monthly clinic were an animal behaviourist comes in and gives some general talks on dog obedience and is then available to book for private sessions. Your local vet might have a similar set-up.

Mango Joe

Trust your instincts, some on here will gladly tell you to light incense, elevate his kennel by half a foot on the left side and only feed him organic Moose fillets - paper never refused ink and everyone else always knows what's best.

Fact is that in 5 years time if he rips the face off some poor passing Toddler none of these wise people will be in the dock with you.....

DBB

Montgolfier wrote: »

My 2 cents is watch the dog whisperer episodes. I don't buy into all the throw a load of money at the situation no matter how much you love the dog the bill could be in the thousands.

I think it would be foolish for an owner of an aggressive dog to (a) rely on a TV program to fix the dog, particularly when the program has to issue repeated on-screen warning "not to try this at home", and (b) when the presenter of said show is unqualified, untrained, and relying almost entirely on the outdated, disproven beliefs that have already been posted about here at length. He bears multiple scars to prove that his methods are dangerous, and why that on-screen warning pops up.

The dog is male 4 year old he could agressive due to sexual frustration.
Have you considered neutering the poor fella or sent him to stud.

Utter codswallop. Sexual frustration?!!!
Apart from anything else, you're recommending that the op use a dog with aggression issues to pass on his traits, remembering that fearfulness (and consequent aggression) is the most strongly heritable behavioural trait?

The above post pretty much sums up for me, why my blood runs cold when a thread on aggression comes up... They bring out the very worst advice from some people.

Stoner

OP 20 years ago I had a four year old boarder collie. We lived in a corner house and my mother was cleaning the front of the house.
A young lad climbed over the locked gate, using it as a shortcut he was delivering things door to door. He ran up the side of the house and our dog nipped him in the bum to take him away from my mother. The lads mother called up there was a commotion.
The postman complained about him.

About a year later I ended up in court as he allegedly bit a man in the process of separating him from another dog in a fight in our garden.

I have a number of young relatives, the dog started leaving the room when they came to visit. He showed his teeth a few times.
There were other indicators.

We put him to sleep. It broke my heart he was my dog I'd had him for 6 years but we couldn't take the risk he'd wouldn't bite a child's face. I'd failed him.

Many years later I have my own place and a 2 year old and a 9 year old collie dogs.

I never played any aggressive games with them. They have never slept on a human bed. I played no tugging games only retrieving frisbees etc.

They are two very friendly dogs. I've a 7 month old baby the younger dog get on very well, the older dog not so much, but he'd still lick him of he could. The dogs have never been alone with the baby, but I'm very confident that they would be fine.

I still miss the other dog. He was protective and very loving . I exercised him a lot.
But I believe that I'd made mistakes with him and the place he had in the house, the things we let him do , jobs he took on.

I've tried not to repeat these mistakes of the past. I dont think that behaviour treatment can fix every issue.
I've found some to be overconfident.

It's a very hard thing to do. Sometimes with that dog I listened to people who told me things I wanted to hear. But at the end of the day we had a responsibility to the Kids that visited the house.

DBB

Mango Joe wrote: »

Trust your instincts, some on here will gladly tell you to light incense, elevate his kennel by half a foot on the left side and only feed him organic Moose fillets - paper never refused ink and everyone else always knows what's best.

Fact is that in 5 years time if he rips the face off some poor passing Toddler none of these wise people will be in the dock with you.....

Why would you devalue the advice given here like that? There are pitifully few posts that come anywhere close to your withering description. Such hyperbole does nothing, absolutely nothing to help the op.

Montgolfier

DBB wrote: »

I think it would be foolish for an owner of an aggressive dog to (a) rely on a TV program to fix the dog, particularly when the program has to issue repeated on-screen warning "not to try this at home", and (b) when the presenter of said show is unqualified, untrained, and relying almost entirely on the outdated, disproven beliefs that have already been posted about here at length. He bears multiple scars to prove that his methods are dangerous, and why that on-screen warning pops up.




Utter codswallop. Sexual frustration?!!!
Apart from anything else, you're recommending that the op use a dog with aggression issues to pass on his traits, remembering that fearfulness (and consequent aggression) is the most strongly heritable behavioural trait?

The above post pretty much sums up for me, why my blood runs cold when a thread on aggression comes up... They bring out the very worst advice from some people.

Sorry you got so much to say....

DBB

Montgolfier wrote: »

Sorry you got so much to say....

No need to apologise. It's important, I feel, to challenge posts that would cause harm should the advice be followed

Montgolfier

DBB wrote: »

No need to apologise. It's important, I feel, to challenge posts that would cause harm should the advice be followed

As long as your right and we're all wrong. Thanks for putting me straight.

TG1

I'm so surprised by the amount of people going straight to putting a dog down before looking for the cause of the problem, and using the 'what if he bites a child'argument to justify it.

Yes there is always a worry a dog will bite again, but if you investigate the cause and modify your own behaviour with the dog the issue may never arise again!

Like I mentioned in a previous post, my dog bit people, we found a very specific cause, and don't let that particular situation arise again by telling people he has a sore back and hips, so just pet him on his shoulders. This works, and we don't let him interact with smallies who wouldn't understand the importance of that.

My niece (tiny baby) stayed with us and her parents (who know his history) were happy with her in a chair on the floor and him wandering round. I stepped in and put him out of the room because I was not happy with the risk level.It wasn't a big thing, and meant there was no risk to the baby. Good management cuts out a lot of the supposed risk people are talking about here!

A dog is for life, not just until an issue that requires a bit of effort to resolve crops up! I'm really shocked and dissapointed with the amount of people who seem to think a dog is disposable....

Op just to reiterate a point made earlier on this thread there are posters on here with more knowledge and experience than you could imagine, I'd advise taking their posts on board. I posted here when my guy bit me, and got the in depth responses you're getting from the experienced posters. This led to us all working through the issue. It's worth the time and effort to save a life.

nuckeythompson

Mango Joe wrote:

Fact is that in 5 years time if he rips the face off some poor passing Toddler none of these wise people will be in the dock with you.....

So true

AryaStark

coolhandspan wrote: »

just my two cents here, you need to put this dog down, i would have recommended this after first attack, a dog that bites a person can never be trusted again especially around children etc.

I find this very unfair and hope that you do not have a dog. I think anybody who thinks like that should never have a dog as a pet.
Any dog can bite and that is true. When you are a good owner and understand your dog and his body language they are very unlikely to bite you but they have big teeth and the potential is there... just like with humans, a big man should not hit you but the potential is there!!!

AryaStark

bilbot79 wrote: »

That dog needs to be taught who's boss. Talk of putting him down is ridiculous, he needs a smack on the nose to understand that humans are very very important.
As a family you need to talk about it and your dad is very culpable here too. I bet he secretly enjoys the dogs protectiveness but he'll really have to cop on and discipline him.

No that is so wrong. He may need understanding and to know that he is part of the family the same as everybody who lives in the house but he does not need to be hit or taught who is boss... that is very bad advice.

The people he lives with need to learn how to treat a dog. You don't lift an adult dog to take it out of a room especially if you are not the owner of the dog... dogs have very strong body language that is easy to read if you know what you are looking for.

njs030

When I think about it a normal reaction to a dog or anything lunging towards your face is to turn your head away to protect yourself, what could possibly have happened to create a situation where a dog bites someone's lip?
If they were simply sitting beside him or hugging ops dad there's a lot more accessible areas to bite then a lip -in fact if they were hugging ops dad wouldn't a lip be pretty hard for a dog to get to?
The only scenario that makes any sense is someone was kissing the dog and he didn't like it and the person ignored warnings to back off. There's just no way a lip rather than shoulder or jaw would have been closest in any other scenario.

The same goes for carrying him. They are big dogs, too big to be carried around like terriers. I can't imagine what way op was holding him but his grip must have been squeezing around the dogs belly creating pain. That could have a lot to do with it as well.

charlietheminxx

I've read through the whole thread and while I think there is a lot of valuable information here, I would personally put the dog to sleep.

I think behavioural experts are fantastic when a dog has shown hints of aggression or anxiety, they can nip things in the bud and retrain the dog before their behaviour becomes dangerous. In this instance though, you have a fully mature dog who has now gone far beyond warning nips and defensive behaviour all the way to latching on with a hard bite and nearly tearing it's owners nose off.

When I was 13, my dog bit through my sisters lip and left her with a scar which is still there to this day. She had been trained like every other dog that had been part of our family, had a half acre garden to run around and was still walked daily. She had been more jumpy and nervous around people and had started baring her teeth the odd time since she had a litter of pups the year before. We took advice on how to reassure her from the vet (behavioural experts were not a common thing then) and we thought she had adjusted ok, just a bit cagey around people she didn't know still. But that day, there we were, me sitting on a bench in the garden, my dad cutting back some hedging and my sister (who was 10 and has Down syndrome) dancing around by herself with her music and the lovely 5 year old dog we had from when she was 8 weeks old, ran straight up to my sister and bit through her lip.

We put her down. There was no way we could guarantee that she wouldn't do it again. She attacked someone from her family doing something innocuous and well away from her - had it been a smaller child, it would have been a lot worse.

I am not going to lie and say it didn't destroy me, I still feel terrible guilt because she was my dog and I loved her. I know I did the right thing though. I would feel a million times worse if she had done it again and really ripped someone up. Only you can decide what to do OP. People will tell you what they think the right decision is, but at the end of the day you know the dog and you will be the one to have to live with the consequences and the guilt either way, so make sure you really think it through.

fret_wimp2

TG1 wrote: »

A dog is for life, not just until an issue that requires a bit of effort to resolve crops up! I'm really shocked and dissapointed with the amount of people who seem to think a dog is disposable....

This, this and again this.

Its an owners job to train and manage a dog so that it knows its place in the household and family. Just like everyone here, a dog will have good days and bad days.

Managed and trained correctly, even so called "dangerous breeds" are fantastic, friendly, loyal family members.

Anyone who thinks the answer to a dog with a temper is to put it down, doesn't know how to manage or train a dog, and are too lazy to ask for help from a professional.

People take on bad behaviors all the time and they are either corrected in lots of ways, generally via sitting them down and talking to them, or they get worse. Its the exact same for a dog, you just need to deal with it in the appropriate manner, which is never putting it down.

This is your chance to help the dog, and to learn how to be a good, responsible owner in the process. Get help from a reputable trainer/behaviorist.

If thats too much effort & you put the dog down for this, you have failed that dog and i would hope you never get another, as you clearly dont know how, or want to learn how to manage a dog.

sillysmiles

What does your dad think of all this?
OP you say you got, trained and walk the dog but the dog is bonded to your dad. Why doesn't your dad remove him from the room if there a potentially stressful situation for the dog?

Also to be honest, there is nothing wrong with the dog sleeping in your dads room - if that's what your dad wants. To me that's not the trigger. The trigger appears to be - from what you've written - when you try to separate the dog from his space or husband person.

Do you live in the house full time?

borderlinemeath

Montgolfier wrote: »

As long as your right and we're all wrong. Thanks for putting me straight.

Your opinion is wrong. It may well have been thought of as right about 30/40 years ago. Many people who have "grown up with dogs" have the idea that the way it used to be done is still the right way, or even inherited their parents old methods.

DBBs is right.

Anybody who has any interest in/or has studied animal behaviour in the past decade knows DBB is right.

Don't forget, heroin was a precursor to morphine as pain relief. The doctors of the time thought it was a great medicine....

DBB

charlietheminxx wrote: »

In this instance though, you have a fully mature dog who has now gone far beyond warning nips and defensive behaviour all the way to latching on with a hard bite and nearly tearing it's owners nose off.

I think we need to rein in using phrases like the dog "nearly tore it's owner's nose off"... We don't know that. Yes, the op said there was blood, there always is when the nose is injured, but now that the dust has settled somewhat, was the injury so bad that stitches were required? Plastic surgery? A visit to the doc other than for an anti-tetanus shot? He hasn't said, I assume he would have had any of these happened.
I am not excusing the dog here, I am suggesting that maybe this was another warning nip, the dog just happened to hit a particularly sensitive part of the face, whilst he was being lifted up whilst already emtionally aroused, and forced out of the room. Remember, there is history with this dog and the op, the dog has indicated before that he's not comfortable with the op in certain circumstances, and here he is being picked up in what is an uncomfortable position for a dog his size, by a person he's a bit untrusting of. What I'm saying is... If the criteria to save the dog is that he hasn't progressed beyond a warning nip (and the prognosis is better when the dog is inhibiting the force of the bite), then it's quite likely that this dog has not crossed the line... Do you see what I mean? I'm just trying to get people to be objective, to look at the facts, and to stop using overly dramatic language unless it's warranted, because hyperbole kills dogs. Again, I'm not excusing this particular dog, just trying to be objective.
Having said all that, I'm really interested and, no harm to you op but I'm still waiting for a clear answer on this... How did it arise that the dog could bite people on the face whilst they were interacting with your father? As it stands, this is not making a lot of sense, so if you can, you might expand on exactly what happened. It's important. And whilst you may not want to post it here, you'll need to be able to be clear and factual with the behaviourist in explaining exactly what happened.

tk123

Jesus wept. Both my dogs would be dead if I had the attitude of some of the posters on here. One as a puppy when her leg got caught in a folding patio chair and she bit my brother when he freed her leg. Should have taken her around to the vets straight away for that.

"Put manners on the dog" - to me that means asking them to sit before they get a toy or treat or when we're crossing the road, coming back to me when I call them, lifting their paws in and out of their harness, coming to my side when people are passing.
It doesn't mean roaring at them or physically punishing them. If you make a dog afraid of you approaching or laying a hand on them WTF do you expect them to do when do actually need to touch them. How are they to know you're not going to hurt or frighten them this time!?

Make one mistake and you're dead - what a fantastic lesson to teach a child.

JJayoo

Keeping a sheepdog inside is a bad idea. A good sheepdog will have a certain level of aggression in their genetics,after all their function is to herd sheep which are much bigger than the dog itself. I have noticed on several occasions that if my dog isn't worked hard a few times a week she will get incredibly jumpy to the point that when she finally is used to round up sheep it's hard to control her.

AryaStark

tk123 wrote: »

.......

"Put manners on the dog" - to me that means asking them to sit before they get a toy or treat or when we're crossing the road, coming back to me when I call them, lifting their paws in and out of their harness, coming to my side when people are passing.
It doesn't mean roaring at them or physically punishing them. If you make a dog afraid of you approaching or laying a hand on them WTF do you expect them to do when do actually need to touch them. How are they to know you're not going to hurt or frighten them this time!?

Make one mistake and you're dead - what a fantastic lesson to teach a child.

This is a great post and I love your interpretation of "Put manners on the dog" ...

It is so important that we treat dogs and all other domestic animals in the right way and lifting an adult dog to remove him from a room he does not want to leave is never the right thing to do.
You Dad should have moved the dog from the room not you OP. I feel so sorry for the dog because he is obviously very confused and unsure of himself.

ihatewinter

JJayoo wrote: »

Keeping a sheepdog inside is a bad idea. A good sheepdog will have a certain level of aggression in their genetics,after all their function is to herd sheep which are much bigger than the dog itself. I have noticed on several occasions that if my dog isn't worked hard a few times a week she will get incredibly jumpy to the point that when she finally is used to round up sheep it's hard to control her.

What a load of rubbish. I have two sheepdogs inside and never a problem with aggression. My sisters has two nephews who were around the dogs from 6 months and they were no incidents. Once they are trained and exercised well then they will no be aggressive. The 15 year old dog lies on the ground and they run up and down the sitting room beside her and half the time the toys land on her and she doesn't react. The door is left opened, she is not forced to stay in there.

oppenheimer1

fret_wimp2 wrote: »

This, this and again this.

Its an owners job to train and manage a dog so that it knows its place in the household and family. Just like everyone here, a dog will have good days and bad days.

Managed and trained correctly, even so called "dangerous breeds" are fantastic, friendly, loyal family members.

Anyone who thinks the answer to a dog with a temper is to put it down, doesn't know how to manage or train a dog, and are too lazy to ask for help from a professional.

People take on bad behaviors all the time and they are either corrected in lots of ways, generally via sitting them down and talking to them, or they get worse. Its the exact same for a dog, you just need to deal with it in the appropriate manner, which is never putting it down.

This is your chance to help the dog, and to learn how to be a good, responsible owner in the process. Get help from a reputable trainer/behaviorist.

If thats too much effort & you put the dog down for this, you have failed that dog and i would hope you never get another, as you clearly dont know how, or want to learn how to manage a dog.

What total nonsense, sometimes the answer is to have the dog put down. Sometimes you get a bad dog, like a person, that all the managing and training won't change. Behaviorists are expensive and not everyone can afford them especially with no guarantee of success.

To label that owner a failure is extremely harsh, considering you do not know all the circumstances.

DBB

JJayoo wrote: »

Keeping a sheepdog inside is a bad idea. A good sheepdog will have a certain level of aggression in their genetics

Make no mistake. Every single dog, regardless of breed, that is ever born has the capability to become aggressive, which is pre-determined genetically and moulded by how the dog is treated, especially in those first few months. Unfortunately for the collie, along with a couple of other breeds, they're more likely to have been inadequately socialised and handled as pups by the nature of where they tend to be born and raised. It's entirely likely that poor early experiences are as much, if not more influential on the collie's adult behaviour than genetic influences are.
One of the loveliest pet dogs I had as a kid was a collie. She lived inside with us too. Her working needs were replaced/fulfilled via lots of play, and I cut my training teeth with her, she was a perfect starter dog for a kid. We cared for another underworked farm collie when I was very young who used to sneak into my room and snuggle under the blankets with me in my bed... I adored that dog
The thing is, there are loads of people out there who own collies who give them no bother, they are brilliant pets. I hate to see one breed being tarred with the same brush... As a breed they're right up there with greyhounds and lurchers as the most abused, neglected, cruelly treated breeds in Ireland.

Nody

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

What total nonsense, sometimes the answer is to have the dog put down. Sometimes you get a bad dog, like a person, that all the managing and training won't change. Behaviorists are expensive and not everyone can afford them especially with no guarantee of success.

To label that owner a failure is extremely harsh, considering you do not know all the circumstances.

Sorry but if someone can't afford the 100 to 200 EUR required for a behaviorist (which would be the evaluation of the situation) they should definitely not be looking at owning a dog seeing between vet visits, accidents etc. the bill will be far higher than that. How do you handle if the dog gets a condition that require vet care beyond the yearly visit? What if they need blood tests or stay over night and the vet bill is easily exceeding 500 EUR or even easily four digits (hip dysplasia springs to mind)? Have it euthanized?

Owning a dog or any other pet is not a right; in becoming an owner you take on a responsibility and that does include the requirement to be able to afford proper treatment of said animal which has a financial requirement tied to it. That is simply a fact of life; if you can't afford it then no, you should not own a pet.

oppenheimer1

Nody wrote: »

Sorry but if someone can't afford the 100 to 200 EUR required for a behaviorist (which would be the evaluation of the situation) they should definitely not be looking at owning a dog seeing between vet visits, accidents etc. the bill will be far higher than that. How do you handle if the dog gets a condition that require vet care beyond the yearly visit? What if they need blood tests or stay over night and the vet bill is easily exceeding 500 EUR or even easily four digits (hip dysplasia springs to mind)? Have it euthanized?

Owning a dog or any other pet is not a right; in becoming an owner you take on a responsibility and that does include the requirement to be able to afford proper treatment of said animal which has a financial requirement tied to it. That is simply a fact of life; if you can't afford it then no, you should not own a pet.

So only the rich should have dogs?

borderlinemeath

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

So only the rich should have dogs?

You know it also costs over €100 to euthanise a dog? The drugs and sedation aren't free you know.

Responsible owners should always budget for the unexpected, be that for a broken leg or a behavioural consultation. Dogs are like humans in that they have both physical and mental needs. Vets cater for physical, behaviourists for the mental assessment.

Nody

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

So only the rich should have dogs?

If you think having 200 EUR to pay for basic care for your pet makes you rich? Then the answer is yes, only rich should have a pet (inc. a dog) because that's known as being a responsible owner (I'll give you a hint, I know people on wellfare who can afford that so I guess they are rich as well).

oppenheimer1

Nody wrote: »

If you think having 200 EUR to pay for basic care for your pet makes you rich? Then the answer is yes, only rich should have a pet (inc. a dog) because that's known as being a responsible owner (I'll give you a hint, I know people on wellfare who can afford that so I guess they are rich as well).

€200 is more than a weeks dole payment. There's not many on the dole (and working!) that would be able to fork that out on healthcare for themselves let alone a pet.

Nody

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

€200 is more than a weeks dole payment. There's not many on the dole (and working!) that would be able to fork that out on healthcare for themselves let alone a pet.

Then let me introduce you to a new concept known as saving.

I never stated you had to pay 200 EUR from the latest salary on an ongoing basis but that you had to have 200 EUR available. If you can't save up 200 EUR over a couple of months (let's say four, so 50 a month) I strongly recommend sitting down and going through your economy in detail to understand your spend because you have more serious issues to worry about and yes, that would preclude from getting a pet at the time because you can't afford it. But we're moving away from the original topic here.

borderlinemeath

I spend way, way more on the dogs healthcare than I do for myself!

Cherry Blossom

Ah lads, this is getting a bit ridiculous now in all honesty. Even if you are on basic welfare €200 is about one fiftyith of your annual income. If you can't afford that as a one off payment for your pet then no, you really should not have one. If you have a large dog and you feed half decent dog food, you'd pay that every 6 months in dog food alone. It's the cost of 2 or 3 nights out or 3 weeks worth of smokes if you're a smoker.

I wonder how much the OP's family have spent so far on GP visits and tetanus shots.

I'm on a crappy fas allowance and I can still afford to pay €50 a month into my emergency vet fund.

pinkbear

Can we get back on topic please....

stefanovich

Dog is attacking humans. Dog needs to be put down before someone gets seriously hurt.

DBB

pinkbear wrote: »

Can we get back on topic please....

Pinkbear, if you're concerned about how a thread is going, you must use the report function, otherwise you will run foul of the site-wide rules against back-seat moderating by taking matters into your own hands.
Please do not reply to this post on thread.
Thanks

fret_wimp2

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

So only the rich should have dogs?

Rich is a relative term, to someone with no money, a person with 100 quid is rich.

I'd rather say that if you can't afford to care for an animal properly, then yea, you can't afford to have that animal. Proper care means vaccinations, vets fees, good food, and ensuring proper care in emergencies. Yea, that probably means having 200 quid or so aside for rainy days. If that's too much, then you can't afford a dog.

Back on topic, if the OP can't do the research on how to handle a dog(and lifting a large dog around the midsection, when it doesn't want to leave a room is not how to handle a dog), or get training for them and the dog then the OP should not have a dog in their house.

If they can't handle the dog correctly then they need to find someone who can. Killing it because they are cheap or lazy is outright cruelty based solely on laziness.

This issue, like most dog issues is down to an owner who doesn't know how to handle the animal, not a problem with the animal.

TallGlass

Guys I am reluctant to post this as the OP, but I feel like I am getting a serious bashing, and someone accused me of hating my dog and wanting him dead? I mean WTF, seriously.

I have him insured, and he did have an injury previously which covered him for that, so I know how much dogs cost to own and keep. And as much as some posters think, which I find sick I don't want him dead.

I am not going to post after this, but some posters and god help them have kept there cool on this thread and I will take there advise on board. I will leave with this, I won't give up on him but I won't also let this slide I need to deal with this and as a family work with him to help him feel less fear as a family.

DBB

I think that marks a good point to close this thread.
OP, if you want it re-opened at any stage, send one of the mods a pm.
The very best of luck