SAT>IP (general discussion)

Johnboy1951

I am looking for information from anyone who has a SAT>IP set up presently.
I have a quasi set up myself, with tuner cards in a backend PC and tvheadend managing the tuners, epg, recording etc.
All SAT & DTT channels are available on the LAN for any device that connects.

What I am interested in is something like this
http://www.selfsat.com/02_satip/home.html

where the IP streams are generated in the 'dish'+LNB combination, and also the option of a couple of normal LNB connections for tuners ....... most have 8 IP channels out for instance.
Brochure of products here
http://www.selfsat.com/download/04_satip_home/SELFSAT(no5-8)Catalog%20-%20SAT＞IP.pdf

This greatly reduces the amount of cabling needed from 'dish' into home.

So, does anyone have such a set up or something similar?

Have you considered this and why did you decide one way or the other about implementing it?

There are other manufacturers of course, I only used the links above as an example because they provide a decent amount of information about the scheme.

I would like to hear opinions, thanks.

kaisersose77

I'd try and find out that the device is working fine for other tvheadend users first if possible (on tvheadend forum) before splashing out as the sat>ip devices dont all appear to work the same. It seemed to take a while before the inverto ilnb worked ok with tvheadend.

Just googling selfsat and tvheadend, this user seems to have an issue

https://tvheadend.org/boards/4/topics/18253?r=18259



I'm using the Telestar DIGIBIT R1 with tvheadend (but with 4 cables) and it works fine. Think it might be unicable compatible.

Sat>IP seems to have gone very quiet unfortuntately though as the likes of the ilnb are no longer available and most of the existing devices have been 2 or so years by now.

Johnboy1951

When using a system with the SAT>IP server built in to the 'dish/LNB' device, I guess tvheadend could be used on the client device ..... but I feel sure that setting up a .m3u file with the favourite channels would also work.
I am unsure about the use of tvheadend in this situation TBH.

It is my understanding - open to correction here - that the only connection required from such a dish is a Cat5e/Cat6 cable to a router.

I have read from other posts that multiple channels from each mux tuned can be viewed from such a device.
So the only limitation would be quantity of channels on the tuned muxes and the hardware capabilities of the devices & LAN.

With 8 tuners, that means 8 muxes tuned is possible and maybe 10 or 12 channels available per mux (SD/HD/Radio).
So an m3u list of some 90 entries would seem easily attainable.

Still trying to get my head around the practicalities.

kaisersose77

Oh my bad, i wrongly assummed you were going to continue with tvheadend. So yes playlist files will probably work. You wont get all the benefits of tvheadend though such as 7 day epg, recordings etc if you dont stick with it (either by tvheadend managing the device or adding the streams to tvheadend and adding xmltv epg).

Ye its probably just the cat5/cat6 cable. In the case of the inverto ilnb they have a power over ethernet adaptor that i think is connected to the lnb first and then the network cable is connected to that. Not sure if its the same with those dishes.

Johnboy1951

kaisersose77 wrote: »

Oh my bad, i wrongly assummed you were going to continue with tvheadend. So yes playlist files will probably work. You wont get all the benefits of tvheadend though such as 7 day epg, recordings etc if you dont stick with it (either by tvheadend managing the device or adding the streams to tvheadend and adding xmltv epg).

Ye its probably just the cat5/cat6 cable. In the case of the inverto ilnb they have a power over ethernet adaptor that i think is connected to the lnb first and then the network cable is connected to that. Not sure if its the same with those dishes.

I believe the one above also uses PowerOverEthernet ..... probably injected at the user end of the Cat 5e/Cat 6 cable (just guessing).

I would love to hear from someone who has a system like this running ....... only using the ethernet cable from the dish.
It would be nice to read a first hand account of how well it works and pros & cons of such a scheme.

BTW, I am happy with my present set up using tvheadend as the backend with tuners.
It would be nice not to have to bring in coax cable from the LNB and only route ethernet cable.

I picked up one tip from my reading which was new to me ..... how to get a full playlist of all my channels from tvheadend.

http://<IP address of backend PC>:9981/playlist

Saved as a .m3u file it can be used by VLC or other to play the channels.
Strange I suppose that this was news to me

Wabbit Ears

I used to use Sat > PC tuners but used DVB logic instead of TV headened. http://dvblogic.com/en/

Basically the same setup though, the more users you have the more SAT cards and RF cabelling you need.

I really like the look of the setup you posted, seems like a really smart solution if you have up to 8 users.

HOWEVER My setup had several DVB-T tuners also so I could pickup ans distribute RTE, TV3 etc also. With te above setup you're restricting yourself to Free-to air sat channels.

One more thing, I had a CAM installed for polish Channels off Hotbird that worked fine with the DVBlogic software, This may be an issue with the setup posted above also.

Johnboy1951

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

I used to use Sat > PC tuners but used DVB logic instead of TV headened. http://dvblogic.com/en/

Basically the same setup though, the more users you have the more SAT cards and RF cabelling you need.

I really like the look of the setup you posted, seems like a really smart solution if you have up to 8 users.

HOWEVER My setup had several DVB-T tuners also so I could pickup ans distribute RTE, TV3 etc also. With te above setup you're restricting yourself to Free-to air sat channels.

Yep, mine has two DTT tuners so that all Saorview channels are always available to all who might connect.

One more thing, I had a CAM installed for polish Channels off Hotbird that worked fine with the DVBlogic software, This may be an issue with the setup posted above also.

I think it likely that decryption can be achieved on the IP stream.
I read only a little reference to that as I do not have the requirement.

Wabbit Ears

You would find the standard SAT (nagravison, mediaguard conex etc) encryptions would be hell to decrypt from IP. I honestly don't know of any system to do that!!


What would normally happen in Cable or large scale IPTV is the feed would come from satellite (like sky services), be decrypted on the Sat receiver using a card with the decryption keys and then re-encrypted into something the company's STB is setup to decrypt again. In a household distribution you would skip the re-encryption but you wouldn't skip the decryption on the incoming feed.

BTW for hotbird cards/cams I used satsklep.

Johnboy1951

I only came across this device today.
TBH, if I was starting out again I think I would seriously consider this in place of building a rig of tuners to achieve the same ends.

https://www.satellitetv.ie/iptv-hd-receivers/xbox-xti-3340

Dual DVB-S and dual DVB-T tuners.

gfoster

Hey, is there any update on your progress?

I'm looking into either going with DVB-T/S over the network.

I've been testing out a loaner hdhomerun DVB-T and really liked the IP functionality rather than having a DVB-T/S tuner box in each room.
Just install the app on all the android boxes or tablets in the house and that's it.

Ideally it would be nice to have a system with freesat and saorview as there are some differences in the channels.

I see you can now get soarview with a satellite dish ''saorsat'', so by getting a dish and adding an addition lnb receiver you can pull in the saorview channels.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmOWa0UXoIY

Some of the new tuner boxes support dvb-t & dvb-s, either they have 2 inputs or you can combine into a single input with this http://www.freetv.ie/tv-aerial-and-satellite-combiner/

I'm using a plex server on my HP microserver gen 8 which has PCI or usb expansion.
So i could probably get a compatible usb dvb-t just for the terrestrial channels.

Too many options, head is done in with all this

Any idea's?

Johnboy1951

Saorsat is only recommended where it is impossible to get a terrestrial signal to receive the Saorview channels.
Additionally, Saorsat does not have the full complement of Saorview channels.
So, definitely an aerial and a dual DVB-T receiver to ensure all Saorview channels are available to all client devices simultaneously, is what I suggest.

If you are enamoured by the idea of TV>IP on your LAN, then the box I linked above (XTi 3340) would seem to fit the bill admirably.
I would probably use the likes of tvheadend to take the streams, arrange them and manage them including time shift and recording etc etc on a small server box with storage.
After that each client device would get Kodi to interface with the backend tvheadend, and all recordings would be saved centrally to the tvheadend server.
For me I would have LibreElec on all dedicated client devices because it is created for that purpose.
I would probably use LibreElec on the server too, as the OS is very small and efficient.
It is a huge boost to have the same OS on all devices (so much easier to maintain) and the same user interface on everything (Kodi) means there is no confusion when viewing in different rooms.

I have heard nothing from anyone who has installed the SelfSat receiver, unfortunately, so I have no new info
At this time in my own house I would get one should the present system ever fail me. Unfortunately I have no excuse to change at present and money is tight.
Maybe someone will buy me a pressie
(I have some further renovation work I hope to do later this year and I might be able to incorporate a new set up in the costing )

For someone setting up a system where none exists at present, TV>IP should be seriously considered IMO. It has been working here for a few years now with only minor glitches.
It is notable also that last year Sky went this route with their Sky Q, using a mesh wireless LAN.
There are some LNBs available for standard Sat dishes, which also do Sat>IP in the LNB, only requiring a Cat6 cable similar to the SelfSat system.

Yes, there are a large number of options available, particularly for anyone that has no previous set up of any value.
IMO they should seriously consider TV>IP on a LAN if possible.

gfoster

Cheers for the reply and info,

I think investment wise, i would be better going with a SAT>IP receiver.
The megasat/selfsat units with with integrated antenna seems to cost alot. €400 plus.
http://www.selfsat.com/02_satip/home.html


But i see the receiver alone go for €150 plus.
https://www.megasat.tv/produkte/megasat-satip-server-2-2/

Does anyone know from experience, what kind of lnb dish i would need to work with these receivers?
Will a sky dish work for this?

As for saorview, i can just buy a compatible usb dvb-t device that is compatible with synology/tvheadend and that will look after them few channels.

Johnboy1951

I believe if the items are costed then the SelfSat unit comes out comparable (and better) than alternatives, from the price point of view.
In addition the SelfSat unit has more IPTV outputs available than any competitor I have found.
You can take its output directly to a smart TV or PC or such device if you wish, or can feed it through a management device which will arrange channels and EPG etc etc.
The traditional set up requires cabling and tuners at each viewing point, which in addition to dish, LNB, multiswitch etc to get as many outputs would be about the same cost or more, remembering the amount of labour required.
My backend server has two dual tuner cards and together they cost about as much as the Selfsat

Inverto do a standard LNB with SAT>IP output, which fits to a standard dish (not Sky dish), but it does not have the two 'legacy' outputs of the Selfsat, so if you want to add a Sky box or similar later you have additional cost of a suitable LNB to be added in. (Not that Sky are supplying their Sky box anymore, having moved to Sky Q)

I'm not familiar with that Megasat device ..... how many individual outputs does it provide?

Whichever system you go for, if you have the capability of a wired LAN then IPTV is the better choice. A wireless LAN is not as robust and you might have to get boosters or repeaters or such to get full solid coverage.
A price comparison here for Selfsat IP36
http://suche.guenstiger.de/Selfsat-IP36-3303107663/nextagdeg/preise-html

Inverto LNB for Sat>IP
https://www.satshop.tv/Inverto-IDLI-8CHE20-OOPOE-OSP-8-Sender-SATIP-LNB-mit-PoE-Adapter