Head for them thar hills...

falan

A great video for anyone into hiking.
Three farmers talk about access rights and the mountains in general. Remember you do not have a God given right to be there. Every bit of land is owned by somebody. Get out and enjoy the mountains but remember to be respectful and leave no trace.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcigDRtaXpE

unkel

Most landowners in Ireland (are like those 3 farmers and) seem to be very friendly, welcoming and tolerant. Is it really to much to ask of us to:

1. Be respectful to their property and livelihood
2. Leave no trace
3. Bring no dogs

Sandwell

While I agree with the sentiment, as any responsible walker should, the idea that every bit of land is owned by someone is incorrect. It also ignores the fact that people walked the hills long before the concept of private land ownership even existed. Many landowners are extremely accommodating to walkers but there are plenty who are not. A right-of-way or 'right to roam' system is sorely lacking in this country. Unfortunately no Irish government will risk alienating the farmers' lobby to address this.

falan

Sandwell wrote: »

While I agree with the sentiment, as any responsible walker should, the idea that every bit of land is owned by someone is incorrect. It also ignores the fact that people walked the hills long before the concept of private land ownership even existed. Many landowners are extremely accommodating to walkers but there are plenty who are not. A right-of-way or 'right to roam' system is sorely lacking in this country. Unfortunately no Irish government will risk alienating the farmers' lobby to address this.

I agree with you unfortunately the law in Ireland doesn't. Dumb i know but the law states that walkers do not have the right of way. I can't find a link but i think read before that some woman in the 1990's fell off a ledge or a cliff on private land or something. She tried to sue the farmer for her injuries. She lost if i remember right but the high court strengthened its stance on rights of way in Ireland.

falan

http://www.mountaineering.ie/_files/20151021151825_37b856c3.pdf

A good read here about it..

Alun

falan wrote: »

http://www.mountaineering.ie/_files/20151021151825_37b856c3.pdf

A good read here about it..

Yes, that's a good summary of the current situation. One recurring problem is the interpretation by some landowners of the Occupiers Liability Act in the wake of incidents such as the one you quoted above, which I believe was subsequently overturned. As I understand it, after that case, clarification on exactly what is meant by the various terms used in the act and the responsibility of care towards users by landowners was given which means that in all probability a similar case taken today would not result in any liability, but the message doesn't seem to have gotten through.

falan

Alun wrote: »

Yes, that's a good summary of the current situation. One recurring problem is the interpretation by some landowners of the Occupiers Liability Act in the wake of incidents such as the one you quoted above, which I believe was subsequently overturned. As I understand it, after that case, clarification on exactly what is meant by the various terms used in the act and the responsibility of care towards users by landowners was given which means that in all probability a similar case taken today would not result in any liability, but the message doesn't seem to have gotten through.

I've just read through it , i was only going on memory before. Originally the landowner was deemed 75% responsible but then it was overturned.
So the law states we do not have right of way. If a walker hurts him/herself on private land then the landowner isn't liable unless he intentionally set out to cause harm. Its a mess and pretty complicated.
When i'm out, i try and take a wide berth of farm houses. There are farms out in remote places i've seen who do not want people crossing on any part of their land. They make this perfectly clear with the amount of keep out signs and barbed wire. I can understand farmers in the busier areas getting annoyed at a constant stream of people trampling over things, breaking fences and worrying sheep. Not to mention littering. Not everyone behaves like this but it only takes one.
More on access right http://insideireland.ie/2015/04/11/right-to-roam-debate-even-if-the-common-good-is-served-by-more-access-to-countryside-it-would-be-very-difficult-to-pass-into-irish-law-106172/

Even if the common good is served by more access to countryside, it would be very difficult to pass into Irish law

Alun

If you think the Occupier's Liability Act is a mess, try reading the law on rights of way! See PDF's below. It's no wonder LA's are avoiding the issue.

I think sometimes farmers make things unnecessarily complicated for themselves though. Most times walkers only need to walk near farm houses to gain access to upland areas, where they'll be out of sight and, with the notable exception of people who insist on taking dogs, out of mind. Instead of unnecessarily confrontational warning signs, a couple of finger posts, a stile or kissing gate or two to divert walkers along a route that would cause minimal impact on both the farmer and his livestock would be a better solution for everyone concerned in my view.

Rolllo

I prefer to go abroad for my outdoor fix if I can afford it these days, had way too many bad experiences with hostile land-owners in this country.

falan

Alun wrote: »

If you think the Occupier's Liability Act is a mess, try reading the law on rights of way! See PDF's below. It's no wonder LA's are avoiding the issue.

I think sometimes farmers make things unnecessarily complicated for themselves though. Most times walkers only need to walk near farm houses to gain access to upland areas, where they'll be out of sight and, with the notable exception of people who insist on taking dogs, out of mind. Instead of unnecessarily confrontational warning signs, a couple of finger posts, a stile or kissing gate or two to divert walkers along a route that would cause minimal impact on both the farmer and his livestock would be a better solution for everyone concerned in my view.

Thanks very much for the links, ill have a proper read of them later.

Alun

Rolllo wrote: »

I prefer to go abroad for my outdoor fix if I can afford it these days, had way too many bad experiences with hostile land-owners in this country.

Yes, and you don't need to go very far either. A short ferry ride away you can walk for over 1400 km, yes, one thousand four hundred kilometers without encountering a single "Keep Out" sign.

http://www.walescoastpath.gov.uk/?lang=en

The Welsh Government, unlike ours, understands the value of things like this to their economy.

laoch na mona

while I agree with the sentiment that walkers should be respectful of their enviornment, I also firmly believe that Ireland should have a freedom to roam law.

Rolllo

Alun wrote: »

Yes, and you don't need to go very far either. A short ferry ride away you can walk for over 1400 km, yes, one thousand four hundred kilometers without encountering a single "Keep Out" sign.

http://www.walescoastpath.gov.uk/?lang=en

The Welsh Government, unlike ours, understands the value of things like this to their economy.

Scotland also has great public access rights to the countryside.

RupertsHabit

Good video, well worth keeping in mind.