Are French cars really that bad?

carzony

I recently bought a 2005 citroen c4 1.4 petrol in fairness I have had some trouble with it but it was bought as a fixerupper so I expected a bit of trouble with it. It's a beautiful car with a nice digital dash, alloys, fog lights, sun roof, electric heated mirrors ect..Not bad for a 05 car..

The only problem is anyone I talk to is urging me to get rid of it before it gives serious trouble as they are a ''French heap of ****''. I'm shocked at the amount of people who have said this to me and I was wondering do they deserve their bad reputation? There seems to be loads of them on the road so I can't understand how they are seen as such a bad car.

Not sure wether to get rid of it while I can?

colm_mcm

Yes, its only weeks from catastrophic failure. It's a miracle it's lasted 11 years.

Atlantic Dawn

You do hear a lot about electrical issues but the French diesel engines have a good reputation, particularly the older models.

goz83

KEY-CARD

nuff said

pablo128

I used to work as a mechanic, up till maybe 10 years ago. French cars used to turn up with bizarre electrical faults, often requiring days to fault find. Compared to other makes, they can be twice as difficult to work on. Genuinely, you would think French manufacturers didn't actually want people to work on their cars.

I know of a main dealer who changed from Ford to a French make. Most of the mechanics left after 6 months.

TBH they used to have their merits, comfort and handling mostly. But IMO, they are no better than other models nowadays.

ianobrien

I'd keep it until its uneconomic to repair. The problem with French cars was the horrid reliability of Renaults, the complexity of Citroens (and mechanics who couldn't fix them) and Peugeots being so cheap second hand that proper maintenance went out the window. French cars all had their unique mechanical oddities that mechanics couldn't understand/fix.

Modern French cars are no worse than most other makes (Renault of the late 90's early 00's excepted)

vandriver

goz83 wrote: »

KEY-CARD

nuff said

? Could you elaborate ?

Toyotafanboi

I'd spend every minute of every drive fretting over that fixed hub steering wheel thingy.

As for the whole french car thing. Some are very very good, but a lot are very very bad. Kind of like cars from every other nation.

bazz26

Bit late asking now OP. :P

During the 2000s, French cars and electrics didn't go well together but they never really had major mechanical issues. The electrics in the likes of the Renault Laguna II and Megane II were a disaster. Peugeots of a similar vintage were not much better. However they have vastly improved in the last 7 or 8 years, to the point where they are as good as most other stuff out there.

JPNelsforearm

vandriver wrote: »

? Could you elaborate ?

If it goes it costs a heap to replace, I had a megane and the key card broke, luckily it only cost 60 odd to fix as it was fixable, to get a new one there was talk of 400 quid, a sixth the price of the car!

Sold the car shortly after for even money on what Id paid for it..

antodeco

Most of the "indicator break lights" I see are on French cars and vans. Mechanically wise don't give any more problems than alot of other cars. I'd rather crappy electrics than a crappy engine!

TallGlass

Myself have never drove one so couldn't comment. But from hearing some absoletly bizzare stories of failures I would keep away.

Most of the cars you see broken down on motorways to me seem to be nearly always French !

shietpilot

antodeco wrote: »

Most of the "indicator break lights" I see are on French cars and vans. Mechanically wise don't give any more problems than alot of other cars. I'd rather crappy electrics than a crappy engine!

Except an engine these days is as useful as a brick without good electrics :pac:

saabsaab

I'm sure if you get a good one you should keep it. I had a C5 but it cost a lot in repairs to keep going, good diesel engine though, wouldn't get another. I know someone who had a renault people carrier from new but it gave nothing but trouble and expensive trouble too he won't go back to them again. I know one guy who always gets citroens and he is pleased enough after 4, even then one of them had a gearbox expire suddenly on a motorway.

antodeco

shietpilot wrote: »

Except an engine these days is as useful as a brick without good electrics :pac:

Good point! Any of the electrical Gremlins I've had have been lights, windows, radio, heating, etc. "Non-essential" items. I haven't experienced any ECU craziness or immobiliser issues thankfully!

Bigus

goz83 wrote: »

KEY-CARD

nuff said

There is no key card in a citreon C4 , typical pub talk above

NomadicGray

Have an 08 megane, the back passenger side window stopped working for a few months, it's back now, but the drivers window now goes down when you push up or down on the switch, and only sometimes comes back up.
The heater blower had also stopped completely.
Not sure where to begin sorting things out.

megafan

antodeco wrote: »

Most of the "indicator break lights" I see are on French cars and vans. Mechanically wise don't give any more problems than alot of other cars. I'd rather crappy electrics than a crappy engine!

With "Crappy" electrics it can be difficult to find fault (time consuming/expensive) & electric parts can be expensive to replace.... some of the best (most reliable) French cars (for the time) were the likes of Renault 4's which were very basic & only extras were a heater & sliding windows!!!:D

sniperman

was thinking of going for a new renault (2016) clio in diesel,all this negativity towards french cars is making me think twice now:eek:

Arthur Daley

Engine management units on those citroens can give up the ghost and cost a few quid for a new replacement.
Once you get beyond the electrical issues you may have a sound motor if you stick with them as many will run a mile once they hear of french electrics keeping prices low but if you have a bit of patience and a good mechanic you may be able to run one cheaply and relatively reliably. The french run old french cars after all and the frenchman doesn't like to throw good money after bad anymore than the irishman does.

the dark phantom

French cars are great on French roads but utterly useless on Irish roads.

2forjoy

have a peugeot think its french and have no problem with it at all

pablo128

Bigus wrote: »

There is no key card in a citreon C4 , typical pub talk above

Take another look at the thread title.

catbear

Had a 205 and 309 in the 90s, absolutely loved them but then they started overcomplicating them in the early 00s, knew too many loyal Peugoet drivers having problems with the newer models that I moved away from them. Also one thing that used to annoy me was trying to do little jobs and coming across little screws that required a special screw head available only through Peugeot.

However a brother in law who's a taxi driver has been raving about how good the new renaults are.

Voodoomelon

From a practical stand point, what was the actual issue with French vehicles and their electrical problems?

Was it low quality wiring, poor connectors, bad solder joints etc? Or was the wiring scheme unnecessarily complex with knock-on faults from other circuits etc?

Bigus

pablo128 wrote: »

Take another look at the thread title.

Op bought a Citreon

catbear

Voodoomelon wrote: »

From a practical stand point, what was the actual issue with French vehicles and their electrical problems?

Was it low quality wiring, poor connectors, bad solder joints etc? Or was the wiring scheme unnecessarily complex with knock-on faults from other circuits etc?

From what I recall it seemed to be mostly software problems. Cars would leave the showroom and then after a few hundred miles the disco lights on the dashboard would show multiple errors etc.
It killed Peoguets dominant position in Ireland and the UK and gave the likes of Hyundai an opening.

pablo128

Bigus wrote: »

Op bought a Citreon

Thread is about French cars. It doesn't matter which model of French car the OP bought.

The keycard issue is a valid one. French manufacturer introduces gimmick, which is a disaster.

FrontDoor

I like PSA cars and will happily buy another one.

I've found them more reliable than the VWs in the house.

In a couple of years, I'd like to get a 508 SW with the 2.0 diesel, hopefully for buttons, based on the hearsay found on threads like this.

Lutecia

They've gone much much better during the past few years.
Their image isn't very good, means used car prices are quite interesting, and you can make good deals, should you know which ones to buy.
For example the Laguna3 is extremely reliable but stay away from the Laguna2/Megane2/Scenic2/307/407.
And engines are fine too, when you think that the 1.5 dCi powers over 10% of the Irish market, if there was a real trouble, we would know about it. In 2015, 1 out of 3 Mercedes sold in Ireland had a Renault engine (1.5 or 1.6 diesels). Doesn't seem to put off people

LIGHTNING

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Why get a small city car with a Diesel, its completely the wrong engine choice for a city car.

The cheap motor tax is the big attraction despite the usually higher purchase price meaning it would take most people the best of 5 years to break even before any savings on fuel are realised but the only thing people notice is the motor tax because it's an obvious saving they can see , say 200 euro's compared to 350-400 euro's.

calculating the fuel consumption is a much more difficult think for a lot of people and as long as they feel they're saving loads of money nothing can convince them otherwise.

My sister has an 08 308 1.6 90 HP Diesel and probably just over 100,000 miles. No problems with it apart from it blowing bulbs something awful.

The Diesel is very rough, jesus, why would someone drive one ?

GreatDefector

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The cheap motor tax is the big attraction despite the usually higher purchase price meaning it would take most people the best of 5 years to break even before any savings on fuel are realised but the only thing people notice is the motor tax because it's an obvious saving they can see , say 200 euro's compared to 350-400 euro's.

calculating the fuel consumption is a much more difficult think for a lot of people and as long as they feel they're saving loads of money nothing can convince them otherwise.

I bought a clio 2 years ago, no bother at all , grand family car for what it is. The built in "entertainment centre" (medianav) is a heap of ****e though

I got the 1.2 petrol... The 1.5 dci was €22k which to be honest is a bit nuts. clio is clearly a city car. If you're not doing the milage in the diesel you're in trouble, french, german, Italian or any other

notGill

I've had a 2006 c4 1.6hdi for over 2 years now. No big issues really other than usual service items like bearings and brake pads. Happy motoring as far as I'm concerned!

My dad is a Citroen fanatic too, he has either driven c5's or xantias for the last 20 years.

flutered

i have an o2 pug in the yard, when it gets hot the key will not engage, there is a click click near the back wheel, this is the reason that the battery runs down unexpectedly and embarresinly

GreatDefector

GreatDefector wrote: »

I bought a clio 2 years ago, no bother at all , grand family car for what it is. The built in "entertainment centre" (medianav) is a heap of ****e though

I got the 1.2 petrol... The 1.5 dci was €22k which to be honest is a bit nuts. clio is clearly a city car. If you're not doing the milage in the diesel you're in trouble, french, german, Italian or any other

Yeah, the Clio is a good example of where it usually makes 0 sense to buy the diesel, this is nearly 6K dearer than the petrols that I've seen on carzone at least.

Even the Electric Zoe doesn't sell well in Ireland because people compare it to the Clio costing 15/16K V maybe 20-25K when you add up the battery lease in the Zoe. It would take time to get a pay back because Clio owners don't tend to do big mileage and even if you did the difference in fuel consumption would probably take 5-7 years to break even before you even start to make a saving.

So many people are completely brainwashed into diesel.

flutered

notGill wrote: »

I've had a 2006 c4 1.6hdi for over 2 years now. No big issues really other than usual service items like bearings and brake pads. Happy motoring as far as I'm concerned!

My dad is a Citroen fanatic too, he has either driven c5's or xantias for the last 20 years.

the desiel xantias were a mighty yoke, except for the suspension provlems

pablo128

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah, the Clio is a good example of where it usually makes 0 sense to buy the diesel, this is nearly 6K dearer than the petrols that I've seen on carzone at least.

Even the Electric Zoe doesn't sell well in Ireland because people compare it to the Clio costing 15/16K V maybe 20-25K when you add up the battery lease in the Zoe. It would take time to get a pay back because Clio owners don't tend to do big mileage and even if you did the difference in fuel consumption would probably take 5-7 years to break even before you even start to make a saving.

So many people are completely brainwashed into diesel.

This thread is not about diesel! We get it. You hate diesels. We know. You are across a couple of threads even today beating down on diesels, how your sister has a diesel and it's really noisy and you don't understand why people drive them.

This thread is about french cars FFS.

And by the way, a new Clio diesel starts at 18k, which is 3k more than the petrol. Base model cars obviously.

coolbeans

NomadicGray wrote: »

Have an 08 megane, the back passenger side window stopped working for a few months, it's back now, but the drivers window now goes down when you push up or down on the switch, and only sometimes comes back up.
The heater blower had also stopped completely.
Not sure where to begin sorting things out.

In all fairness though these are hardly big issues on an eight year old car. How has it been apart from that? If it were a Passat the average Irish punter would likely say "shur it's a great yoke, only thing went wrong is the window and the blower." French car, "ball of scrap" neatly confirming the bias.

I do think people can be harder on French cars than others for whatever reason. I reckon it's cos the brands aren't prestigious therefore they're easily dismissed as cheap junk when something goes wrong. I mean Mercedes made a lot of expensive and electrically compromised junk from say 1995-2007 but their reputation seems to have recovered really well since.

Del2005

Arthur Daley wrote: »

The french run old french cars after all and the frenchman doesn't like to throw good money after bad anymore than the irishman does.

That's because of patriotism not common sense. The good thing about having no domestic car manufacturing is we can pick the best cars not the local one.

The Yanks swear by their cars but any European or Asian manufacturer is miles ahead of them, their sports cars where still using leaf springs till recently. I'd a Focus in the US a few years ago and even with a 2L engine the thing had no go and the interior felt like an 80s Escort as opposed to the equivalent Focus here.

And don't get me started on the jingoistic British car reviews saying that the UK made car is better because it has "soul".

coolbeans

Lutecia wrote: »

They've gone much much better during the past few years.
Their image isn't very good, means used car prices are quite interesting, and you can make good deals, should you know which ones to buy.
For example the Laguna3 is extremely reliable but stay away from the Laguna2/Megane2/Scenic2/307/407.
And engines are fine too, when you think that the 1.5 dCi powers over 10% of the Irish market, if there was a real trouble, we would know about it. In 2015, 1 out of 3 Mercedes sold in Ireland had a Renault engine (1.5 or 1.6 diesels). Doesn't seem to put off people

I reckon this is fairly accurate. The models mentioned all came out during the nougties and damaged the image badly.

runawaybishop

I had a 00 citreon for years, never once gave me an ounce of hassle. Most reliable car I've had tbh. Modern french marques do fairly well in reliability.

http://www.reliabilityindex.com/manufacturer

colly4211

My missus had a 05 megane from new.she put 330k on it before the injectors gave up. The only trouble she ever had with it was headlight bulbs and a drivers side window regulator and a bearing went on the alternator. Not bad I reckon for 330k on a French car.

goz83

vandriver wrote: »

? Could you elaborate ?

I could, but then he said...

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

If it goes it costs a heap to replace, I had a megane and the key card broke, luckily it only cost 60 odd to fix as it was fixable, to get a new one there was talk of 400 quid, a sixth the price of the car!

Sold the car shortly after for even money on what Id paid for it..

Bigus wrote: »

There is no key card in a citreon C4 , typical pub talk above

But there is in other French cars.

pablo128 wrote: »

Take another look at the thread title.

Thanks Pablo.

Bigus wrote: »

Op bought a Citreon

Irrelevant.

pablo128 wrote: »

Thread is about French cars. It doesn't matter which model of French car the OP bought.

The keycard issue is a valid one. French manufacturer introduces gimmick, which is a disaster.

And again.

Time for a whiskey I think.



Though in all seriousness, i'm sure there are some good french cars out there. I'm guessing they are the ones in the scrap yards, not blocking up our roads from constantly breaking down. They are the only cars i know that when you press the button to open the window, you might change the radio station instead. The key cards were a dreadful idea. I had a brand new megane convertible as a rental in Spain a few years back and I had a loan of a 4 year old regular megane when my own car was getting a service. Both times they gave issues, especially the older megane which needed the card removed and reinserted several times before reading. Never again!

CIP4

I have a Megane mk3 as most of you know but I bought it last summer and was shocked at the amount of people that when I told them I bought one straight out said they were a ball of scrap and was I mad changing from a VW to a Renault and that they hope I have a warranty as I'd spend most of my time in the garage with it. I always liked Renaults and don't really care what people think of it but I was still suprised that the brand still has such a negative name when now a days they are as reliable as VW's, skodas, toyotas, Hyundai's etc.

My car has 132k km on it and in the 8 months I've had it it's only needed one wheel bearing which was cover under warranty and would just as easily go on many of the other main brands. It's being serviced on Monday and outside of that its never been near a garage and has probably been the most reliable car I've had as I haven't spent a penny on it and it consistently runs well all the time.

The keycard works flawlessly on mine as did the ones on the 2 mk2 meganes we had in previous years. Literally has never failed to lock/ unlock the car or turn on the engine even turns on and off the lights from the key card everytime you press the lighting button.

Guy:Incognito

flutered wrote: »

the desiel xantias were a mighty yoke, except for the suspension provlems

The only suspension problems relate to the thing that sits in the drivers seat. It's a fairly simple set up. Like anything, proper maintenance is all thats needed.

JohnBoy26

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The only suspension problems relate to the thing that sits in the drivers seat. It's a fairly simple set up. Like anything, proper maintenance is all thats needed.

You are joking? The suspension setup was complex and where to put all the pipes seemed to be an afterthought.

pablo128

pablo128 wrote: »

This thread is not about diesel! We get it. You hate diesels. We know. You are across a couple of threads even today beating down on diesels, how your sister has a diesel and it's really noisy and you don't understand why people drive them.

This thread is about french cars FFS.

And by the way, a new Clio diesel starts at 18k, which is 3k more than the petrol. Base model cars obviously.

New years resolution for Pablo, need professional help to get over your issues in relation to my distaste of diesel cars.

Also the 308 is a French car !

Squidgy Black

Family member had had nothing but trouble with their Laguna, the key card went and then the internal electrics acted up.

Personally I'd avoid any french cars from the late 90s up until 2008 or so. Haven't heard of any issues with the new Clios which are quite popular.

And I dunno if you'd classify the Peugeot 206 with the rest of the French cars from the noughties but any friends with one ended up scrapping theirs, comparisons to fiat puntos and their reliability.....

Guy:Incognito

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

You are joking? The suspension setup was complex and where to put all the pipes seemed to be an afterthought.

I never had any issue working on my Xantia's.

As for the subject of the thread, my list of French cars that I've owned myself (Safrane x 2, Clio , Xantia x 2 , Scenic I (missus) and Scenic II (missus) have all been fine. Nothing major failed on any of them and normal preventative maintenance kept them all going for years. Also in the family have been a Laguna I , 2 other clios and the mothers current Megane III , all again incident free. My mates Megane II he bought new in 03 and kept for 12 years was grand.

All these cars were/are maintained by me. I never get the thing of French cars being hard to work on. All cars have their irritating issues when it comes to certain jobs (my recent brake servo change on my S80 that involves having to drop the engine 8-10 inches being one)

pablo128

Deleted User wrote: »

New years resolution for Pablo, need professional help to get over your issues in relation to my distaste of diesel cars.

If you could limit it to relevant threads, that would be great.;) Happy new year.:)