Are French cars really that bad?

sunnysoutheast

carzony wrote: »

If i'm honest, even though my c4 has been pretty reliable, I do feel they are overly complex. When you turn on the ignition the amount of lights that show is scary. I always think if even one of them light show it'll probably be a nightmare to fix:(

Pity they made them so advanced electrical wise. I've no doubt they would have been one of the best cars on the road if they simplified the electrical system.

My uncle had a Laguna "running around car" which was absolutely bulletproof. Based on this he bought a later model which had clearly been manufactured as some sort of joke on the English.

trixiebust

Have a 2011 C4, which I've owned since new. Never needed nothing more than service and tyres since then. Just hit the 100k mark and still delighted with it.

Think I paid 18k for mine, while a similar Focus / Golf was about 3.5 k more.

I'd quite happily buy another one, and keep the extra few grand for myself!!

CiniO

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy wrote: »

So 4 "minor" but seriously annoying issues in 4 months. I'd never tar all French cars with the same brush, but your one is starting to sound like a lemon!

Well I can hardly think I could have got a better one.
My seems to be in perfect nick.

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

CiniO wrote: »

Well I can hardly think I could have got a better one.
My seems to be in perfect nick.

It left you stranded for 2 hours, in the middle of the night! I dunno, whatever you think there yourself.

CiniO

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy wrote: »

It left you stranded for 2 hours, in the middle of the night! I dunno, whatever you think there yourself.

Even brand new car could left me stranded for whatever reason. Simple puncture if there's no spare wheel might be enough for that.

I said that problem was a relay which is very simple thing.

What makes it awkward, is that they are not changable on peugeots like on any other cars.

Also alloy wheel design without centre hole is a joke.

Same as tyre pressure sensors with valves which crack.

Simple stupid things it is...

But overall that's why they have bad name, and can be purchased for nothing.

My bicycle cost more than this car, and it's probably one of the most comfortable and safest cars I've had. What more to expect.

French cars are really that bad exactly as Germans are really that good.

Kristopherus

Deleted User wrote: »

French cars are really that bad exactly as Germans are really that good.

Absolute bull. The current range of Renaults are every bit as good as the other marques on the market here, with the possible exception of the so-called prestige marques.

Kristopherus

Kristopherus wrote: »

Absolute bull. The current range of Renaults are every bit as good as the other marques on the market here, with the possible exception of the so-called prestige marques.

Did you even read my post, much less understand it?

Kristopherus

Deleted User wrote: »

Did you even read my post, much less understand it?

Yes and it makes no sense:rolleyes:

bennya

Had a clutch slave cylinder go on my 508 a few weeks ago. €100 to replace at my local independent.

Same job on an '09 Passat belonging to a colleague, because the slave is internal to the box unlike the 508, cost well over a grand as the box had to come out, the clutch was contaminated, and the DMF was changed as a matter of course.

I've had all Peugeots except for my first car which was a VW Vento, the VW was the only one to leave me stranded. Go figure.

B

digger58

I don't believe there are any bad cars on the market! Every make has its niggles. A lot of the problems people have are down to zero maintenance. The other side is we here in Ireland live in a very damp climate, since we don't manufacture here, cars are not designed to deal with our climate, Water and electrics don't mix and damp will get in everywhere. I have run Fiats and Citroens for years, badge snobbery allows me to get great value 2nd hand and thankfully no major problems.

Seweryn

CiniO wrote: »

4. Also during above tyres change, mechanic couldn't balance the wheels, as alloys don't have centre hole which would allow them to be put onto balancing machine...

Your mechanic could not balance the wheels, because he did not have the tools to do it. It wasn't the car's fault .

CiniO

Seweryn wrote: »

Your mechanic could not balance the wheels, because he did not have the tools to do it. It wasn't the car's fault .

That's true.
However I got my phone and called most tyre places within 80km radius of my home, and no single place had a right equipment.
Only Peugeot dealer.

So it's not like really my mechanic's fault...

If car manufacturer decides to do something completely different than anyone else, then it will surely cause issues.

Special Circumstances

Kristopherus wrote: »

Yes and it makes no sense:rolleyes:

It's perfectly clear what the poster meant. Think harrrrrdurrrrr.

Seweryn

CiniO wrote: »

That's true.
However I got my phone and called most tyre places within 80km radius of my home, and no single place had a right equipment.
Only Peugeot dealer.

So it's not like really my mechanic's fault...

If car manufacturer decides to do something completely different than anyone else, then it will surely cause issues.

I used to drive a Volkswagen Beetle that had wheels bolted with five studs and no round centre, and the nearest garage from my location did have the right attachment to balance the wheels. I believe the attachment came in the package with the balancing machine. So I guess it may be a problem with the mechanics more than anything.

CiniO

Seweryn wrote: »

I used to drive a Volkswagen Beetle that had wheels bolted with five studs and no round centre, and the nearest garage from my location did have the right attachment to balance the wheels. I believe the attachment came in the package with the balancing machine. So I guess it may be a problem with the mechanics more than anything.

Maybe you were just lucky, as no garage around me has a right equipment, including the biggest and most famous tyre place in Castlebar which prides themselves as best tyre supplier for the whole region.

corks finest

Kristopherus wrote: »

Absolute bull. The current range of Renaults are every bit as good as the other marques on the market here, with the possible exception of the so-called prestige marques.

Maybe modern French cars are,as in the last 5/6 years,prior to that they all,had dire electric problems, but being cheaper than other brands ppl had little choice, but to buy and get on with it,most were comfy,stylish etc,but not reliable,,ex Renault,Citroen,Peugeot owner,now Honda owner,(no probs ,so far)

Gael23

Not anymore. But there was a time where I wouldn't touch one with a barge pole.

I had a 2006 407 that broke my heart. Problem after problem after problem.

My borther has had a 2003 Megane for the last 5 or so years. Had some problems with the windows not working, but that's about it. Apparently that car can give serious trouble, but from the experience he's had with his one, all has been relatively well. I'd say he spent less than a grand in 5 years on repairs. Not too shabby.


I've currently got a 2009 C5. I've had it about 10 months now. I've put heavy mileage on it (im not sure of the figure, but about 50km i think). The CV joints have both gone at the front, and I haven't had a horn in ages. CV issues are wear and tear and not something I'd blame Citroen for, but losing my horn has affected me, and is something I want to get fixed. Unsure if this is an electrical problem or not, though.


So my french car experience is pretty decent all in all. I wouldn't avoid them. Much like I wouldn't buy a german car thinking it'll be all sunshine and lollipops.

Mycroft H

I'm not even going to make a pun out of that post

monkeysnapper

monkeysnapper wrote: »

I bought a 2006 c4 2 months ago after looking for a car for few months . the dam car was like it was litraly just driven out of a showroom, low miles, has aircon ,cc, and seems as good on fuel as my Audi avant . she's nowhere near as good to drive tho but tax is lower and my commute is so small now my diesel was wasted.

Thing was the price I paid was 2k . Now I was as anti French car as loads on here and this is just a run around for couple of years but this car bang for buck is outstanding.

I've a drive from Kerry to UK next month so I may be back with different story yet .

My update .

The car never made it to UK . got it serviced 2 weeks before going over and my mechanic informed me there was oil in water .
I took my other car to UK

I got head fixed , belt and water pump and touch wood haven't had any further problems .

My bill was 650 which I thought was OK .

My verdict on French cars ........the jury's out !!!!

bennya

Thing is, I'll bet that most 407's that have given problems have had the 1.6 HDi engine. Same thing for the 01-07 Lagunas with the 1.9DCi.

My wife had a 03 Laguna 1.6 petrol for 5 years and apart from the inevitable coilpack replacement, it was perfect.

I've had two 1.8 petrol 407's, and apart from the ABS sensors (known weak point) they've also been reliable.

My brother had a 09 Focus 1.6 which ended up limping its way to a trade in due to issues with the engine, which I'd guess were due to lack of maintenance. As informed posters will know, the same 1.6 diesel engine is used by Ford, Peugeot and Volvo across their range. Funny how reliability issues caused by the same inherent issue (lack of prompt and/or servicing causes the turbo to sh1t itself) reflect more severely to certain marques

B

grogi

The Laguna II era was a disaster for Renault and French cars in general... The electronics era did surprise them - and they made stuff unprepared. Everything was braking down...

These days - not so much anymore... But the stigma is still there, which causes another problem...

Those cars depreciate really fast. Because of that, at some stage they are worth not more than a fridge from Lidl's commercial... Nobody really cares for them, as a one service cost and tank of petrol would double the value. Neglected they brake down... It's self fulfilling prophecy.

KingBrian2

The Renault are a good car. Having no experience of this fact but I reckon so.:o

ThisRegard

grogi wrote: »

These days - not so much anymore... But the stigma is still there, which causes another problem...

Those cars depreciate really fast. Because of that, at some stage they are worth not more than a fridge from Lidl's commercial... Nobody really cares for them, as a one service cost and tank of petrol would double the value. Neglected they brake down... It's self fulfilling prophecy.

That's incorrect.

CiniO

grogi wrote: »

The Laguna II era was a disaster for Renault and French cars in general... The electronics era did surprise them - and they made stuff unprepared. Everything was braking down...

These days - not so much anymore... But the stigma is still there, which causes another problem...

Those cars depreciate really fast. Because of that, at some stage they are worth not more than a fridge from Lidl's commercial... Nobody really cares for them, as a one service cost and tank of petrol would double the value. Neglected they brake down... It's self fulfilling prophecy.

I got my 10 year old 407 for peanuts, and when I asked here about timing belt replacement (which was due) most posters replied not to do it... Just drive until car dies...
So the self fulfilling prophecy is alive on boards as well

crasy dash

Just my two cents worth having grown up all my life surrounded by japanese cars from a 91 corolla all the way up to a 2012 auris.

The parents are now driving a Renault captur now due to the last two Toyotas we bought being rubbish.

Both cars were auris parents 1.3vvti and mine a 1.4d4d.

Havent heard the mother complain once about her car so far

The_Honeybadger

I had a xsara Picasso for nearly five years and about 80000 miles. It was a panic buy due to my car dying and needing something that could take three child seats in the back. It kind of grew on me over time and I was actually sad to see it go. It was quite reliable and I sold it on with nearly 170k miles on it. It was still on the original clutch and shocks and flew through the nct before I sold it. The interior held up really well and it looked new after a pre-sale valet. No major problems outside of the regular wear and tear stuff. No electrical issues whatsoever in 5 years.

I'd have no problem buying a French car again.

galwaytt

grogi wrote: »

The Laguna II era was a disaster for Renault and French cars in general... The electronics era did surprise them - and they made stuff unprepared. Everything was braking down...

These days - not so much anymore... But the stigma is still there, which causes another problem...

Those cars depreciate really fast. Because of that, at some stage they are worth not more than a fridge from Lidl's commercial... Nobody really cares for them, as a one service cost and tank of petrol would double the value. Neglected they brake down... It's self fulfilling prophecy.

The upside if depreciation is.....buying them. After many years of German cars we've gone back to Renault.
Bought a 12 reg Megane GT Tourer with EDC gearbox for about 6k less than a Skoda or 10k less than an Audi.

No contest.

bennya

bennya wrote: »

Thing is, I'll bet that most 407's that have given problems have had the 1.6 HDi engine.

Mine was a nightmare car, but it was the 2ltr diesel.

That said, engine itself never really hassled me, except for trying to start it on a cold morning (including after the glow plugs were changed), but it was all non-engine nonsense with that car that got me.

Screen on the radio fading in warmth, air-con being stuck on a particular heat (sweltering in the car), boot deciding it wouldn't open anymore, etc.


The C5 (2009) I have at the moment is a 1.6 Diesel. Not sure if its the same engine or not, but again, no engine related issues with it (C5 has actually been very good to me thus far).

grogi

Deleted User wrote: »

Mine was a nightmare car, but it was the 2ltr diesel.

That said, engine itself never really hassled me, except for trying to start it on a cold morning (including after the glow plugs were changed), but it was all non-engine nonsense with that car that got me.

Screen on the radio fading in warmth, air-con being stuck on a particular heat (sweltering in the car), boot deciding it wouldn't open anymore, etc.


The C5 (2009) I have at the moment is a 1.6 Diesel. Not sure if its the same engine or not, but again, no engine related issues with it (C5 has actually been very good to me thus far).

Tomorrow take your allen keys and tighten the injector injector retaining bolts. Simple fix, but can save you the majority of 1.6 HDI/TDCi hassle...

http://c4owners.org/plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?193674

Falcon L

I've had a 2008 Laguna 3 for the past two and a half years. The only time the mechanic saw it was for servicing, when he had to replace a droplink once. That's it. No other problems, it has been super reliable.

It's not like there is nothing to go wrong, this is a top spec car. All electric heated leather seats, dual climate, cruise, keyless entry and start, auto parking mirrors, LED rear lights, 4 electric windows, auto gearbox, auto wipers, auto lights, bluetooth radio, parking sensors, etc. ( probably more I can't remember)

Plenty of power at 180 horses and economy of average 6.7l/100km. What's not to like? Oh, and I only paid €6k for it.

I'll replace it next month.... with another Renault.

grogi

grogi wrote: »

Tomorrow take your allen keys and tighten the injector injector retaining bolts. Simple fix, but can save you the majority of 1.6 HDI/TDCi hassle...

http://c4owners.org/plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?193674

got a pic of what I should be looking for? not an engine wise person so not sure what injector seals do or look like..


EDIT: Sorry that link wasnt working for me. Working now and all makes sense again in the world.

Green farmer

grogi wrote: »

Tomorrow take your allen keys and tighten the injector injector retaining bolts. Simple fix, but can save you the majority of 1.6 HDI/TDCi hassle...

http://c4owners.org/plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?193674

The 1.6 diesel citroen need eolys fluid topping up every 100k. You'd be surprised how many mechanics don't know this and unnecessarily replace turbos, valves and remove dpfs, when all that's wrong is the topping up of the fluid.

What happens if you don't repalce it? what symptoms do you get to let you know it's (over)due? Or is it just like not putting oil in the car? you only find out when it's too late?

Green farmer

Deleted User wrote: »

What happens if you don't repalce it? what symptoms do you get to let you know it's (over)due? Or is it just like not putting oil in the car? you only find out when it's too late?

The car feels sluggish and you get warning notices up on dash saying risk to filter and risk of engine clogging. The car will be sluggish etc. What happens is the dpf filter will start clogging up, if used on sort journeys. ( long journeys clean it out ) . It's an issue with a lot of modern diesels. The fluid lowers the burning temperature of the diesel. I ain't a mechanic, but a Citroen owner.

vandriver

Green farmer wrote: »

The car feels sluggish and you get warning notices up on dash saying risk to filter and risk of engine clogging. The car will be sluggish etc. What happens is the dpf filter will start clogging up, if used on sort journeys. ( long journeys clean it out ) . It's an issue with a lot of modern diesels. The fluid lowers the burning temperature of the diesel. I ain't a mechanic, but a Citroen owner.

Not all PSA 1.6 hdi engines have a dpf,however.

Ahhh yes! I remember now. I was thinking here "what is eolys fluid.. how do i know that name". I was getting that exact issue on my C5, and had to do a forced regeneration with mechanic.

I chalked it down to the previous owner, as it happened fairly swiftly after I got the car.

I do fairly high mileage, and haven't seen anything on the dash or on the car to indicate it's throwing up issues again. There have been days where it went for 20 hours straight without a break, so i reckon anything thats in it that needs clearing out has well and truly been cleared out (or at least so i hope).

grogi

Green farmer wrote: »

The car feels sluggish and you get warning notices up on dash saying risk to filter and risk of engine clogging. The car will be sluggish etc. What happens is the dpf filter will start clogging up, if used on sort journeys. ( long journeys clean it out ) . It's an issue with a lot of modern diesels. The fluid lowers the burning temperature of the diesel. I ain't a mechanic, but a Citroen owner.

Eolys does reduce the temperature of soot burning (from 550 down to 450*C), not the diesel; it is much easier for the soot in the DPF to burn on its own.

This feature virtually reduces any need for active regeneration - as the passive happens much much much more often. The problem is it contain some elements (Caesium IIRC) that block the DPF on top of the regular ashes. After 150kkm it needs to be cleaned.

In fairness, if the DPF is blocked because of lack of Eolys, the turbo will be blown rather fast...

Green farmer

Grogi, what's the natural life expectancy of a dpf filter, cause they are expensive things if you had to replace one ?

In fairness, aside from the eolys fluid issue, been driving the same Citroen for a good few years and found it to be very reliable, comfortable, cheap to run and has a bit of personality. I'd actually say it's the most comfortable car I've ever driven. No sore back etc after a long journey.

FrontDoor

You may just need to top up with fluid, which is relatively inexpensive.

Also, at a certain mileage/usage combination, I reckon the car is programmed to pop up an error telling you to replace the filter. You can just have that error reset and off you go again, provided the DPF is working.