Why do you hate Irish?

Pac1Man

This one sentence.

Léigh anois go cúramach ar do scrúdpháipéar na treoracha agus na ceisteanna a ghabhann le cuid A.

The horror.

syklops

ted1 wrote: »

You see, this is where a Gael scoil comes in. They don't do three hours of Irish, they do the other subjects just through Irish.

Cui bono?

martyos121

strelok wrote: »

i went to an all irish school for primary and secondary, even did my first year of college through Irish.

out of all the people I still keep in contact (or facebook contact) with, I could count on one hand with many fingers to spare the number of people who still use or probably even understand irish to even a moderate degree

And I'm guessing many if not all of these people don't live in a Gaeltacht? It isn't socially acceptable to speak Irish outside of them nowadays, which I find unfortunate. Obviously I don't know your friends but I'd imagine if they had the opportunity to use the language in everyday life, they'd be more inclined to speak it a bit. I only say this because I wish I had the opportunity to speak it everyday but I don't have the chance where I live, and as much as I love the language, I wouldn't trade my current living conditions for it by moving out to the sticks.

Sh1tbag OToole

martyos121 wrote: »

And I'm guessing many if not all of these people don't live in a Gaeltacht? It isn't socially acceptable to speak Irish outside of them nowadays, which I find unfortunate. Obviously I don't know your friends but I'd imagine if they had the opportunity to use the language in everyday life, they'd be more inclined to speak it a bit. I only say this because I wish I had the opportunity to speak it everyday but I don't have the chance where I live, and as much as I love the language, I wouldn't trade my current living conditions for it by moving out to the sticks.

I have never heard of it being socially unacceptable. Where have you seen this being the case?

The King of Moo

syklops wrote: »

We were taught Irish usually for 3 hours a day, followed by 40 mins of religion, and the rest of the day was English and Maths. Some days it was irish all day. Some days we got to English but never made it to maths. Once in a blue moon we would do a half hour of nature or geography, but it was very rare.

Are you seriously saying you think kids after 3 hours of Irish would not prefer to be doing something different?

I'm not saying that at all, as I never went to such a strange school. Was that primary or secondary school?

In primary school I remember it getting fairly equal treatment compared to other subjects, and in secondary it got the normal 40 minutes per day.

Unless those three hours were broken up and included engaging communication activities and lots of eliciting answers from students instead of being teacher-led it was a waste of time. I can understand why that would be painful, but I can't imagine it would be a typical scenario.

FloatingVoter

It's just irrelevant to me. A huge waste of schoolchildrens time that I didn't bother learning. Did Art to make up the lost honour in the leaving cert. I honestly thought it would have disappeared into the colleges and evening classes by now.
I'm pretty sure Irish is easier to drop officially now - just throw in an extra subject to make up the lost points. If you're good at languages, nobody ever failed to get laid speaking French or Italian.

ted1

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

I have never heard of it being socially unacceptable. Where have you seen this being the case?

It's kind of hard ordering a coffee in Starbucks through Irish when the staff is Polish.

syklops

The King of Moo wrote: »

I'm not saying that at all, as I never went to such a strange school. Was that primary or secondary school?

In primary school I remember it getting fairly equal treatment compared to other subjects, and in secondary it got the normal 40 minutes per day.

Unless those three hours were broken up and included engaging communication activities and lots of eliciting answers from students instead of being teacher-led it was a waste of time. I can understand why that would be painful, but I can't imagine it would be a typical scenario.

That was primary school and speaking to my friends and if you ask the boardsies here who do hate it with a passion, many of them came from schools with a similar organisation.

The King of Moo

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Then why don't you? PLenty of resources available to you.



That's not the problem. The problem (from the lanaguge's point of view) is that 12-year old's aren't sitting in a classroom during an Irish lesson thinking "ok - this is interesting - I could enjoy this".

I completely agree. I think people were mainly bored by Irish in school because it wasn't made engaging for them.
I don't think everyone sees that when they look back on their schooldays and rationalise their annoyance with Irish with explanations from their adult life.

martyos121

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

I have never heard of it being socially unacceptable. Where have you seen this being the case?

Well if you start speaking Irish to people down the street, they tend to give you an odd look. You can't walk into most restaurants and order as Gaeilge, you can't handle a lot of daily errands as Gaeilge, and most imprortantly, it's quite hard to chat up a woman as Gaeilge more often than not :pac:.

Maybe socially unacceptable isn't the correct term for it, but I perceive the language to be frowned upon in daily life, at least where I live.

Dughorm

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

I have never heard of it being socially unacceptable. Where have you seen this being the case?

Perhaps not so much as being socially unacceptable but perhaps the poster is describing the looks of shock (and probably admiration) people get from onlookers when Irish is spoken outside of the Gaeltacht?!

Iwasfrozen

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Given the other thread it was surprising to the level of hatred for Irish. Having been over in Wales recently the English speakers would generally be apathetic to Welsh. No one seemed to hate it. Why do people hate a language so much?


Cen faith mar is fuair a lán daoine Gaeilge?

I don't resent Irish. I resent the amount of tax payer's money we spend promoting it.

LeinsterDub

Crumpets wrote: »

I'd like to start learning it again. It's a beautiful-sounding language I think. I wasn't too fond of it as a subject in school though. I'd have liked it more if they had focused more on conversing as Gaeilge as opposed to making us learn off essays about drug problems

Memrise and duolingo are a free start so

Sh1tbag OToole

ted1 wrote: »

It's kind of hard ordering a coffee in Starbucks through Irish when the staff is Polish.

You get them used to it one word at a time. Each time they become confident with one word you substitute another. Better off doing this at a place that isn't Starbucks though, their coffee is sh1te

syklops

martyos121 wrote: »

Well if you start speaking Irish to people down the street, they tend to give you an odd look. You can't walk into most restaurants and order as Gaeilge, you can't handle a lot of daily errands as Gaeilge, and most imprortantly, it's quite hard to chat up a woman as Gaeilge more often than not :pac:.

Maybe socially unacceptable isn't the correct term for it, but I perceive the language to be frowned upon in daily life, at least where I live.

Well if you tried all those activities but in Russian, you would find it equally difficult. Not because Russian is frowned upon but because the majority of people don't speak it. Simple as.

strelok

martyos121 wrote: »

Well if you start speaking Irish to people down the street, they tend to give you an odd look. You can't walk into most restaurants and order as Gaeilge, you can't handle a lot of daily errands as Gaeilge, and most imprortantly, it's quite hard to chat up a woman as Gaeilge more often than not :pac:.

Maybe socially unacceptable isn't the correct term for it, but I perceive the language to be frowned upon in daily life, at least where I live.

well of course it's frowned upon, no one can speak it

ancapailldorcha

martyos121 wrote: »

Maybe socially unacceptable isn't the correct term for it, but I perceive the language to be frowned upon in daily life, at least where I live.

I suspect that this is down to the average Irish person not having a clue as to what you're on about more than a breach of social etiquette.

The King of Moo

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I was. We had a large computer room in our school that I barely got to use at all. Apparently, being just about able to string together half a dozen words as an adult was more important.

We had a weekly computer class which I was happy enough with. Especially because even back then in the mid-90s it wasn't obvious to all of us teens that computers would become such an everyday tool for non-nerds.

I'm starting to think that I was lucky in getting to go to a half-decent school!

ted1

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I don't resent Irish. I resent the amount of tax payer's money we spend promoting it.

I resent people being giving housrd and money for not working at the expense of the tax payer, but hey that's life. There's give and take

Sh1tbag OToole

martyos121 wrote: »

Well if you start speaking Irish to people down the street, they tend to give you an odd look. You can't walk into most restaurants and order as Gaeilge, you can't handle a lot of daily errands as Gaeilge, and most imprortantly, it's quite hard to chat up a woman as Gaeilge more often than not :pac:.

Maybe socially unacceptable isn't the correct term for it, but I perceive the language to be frowned upon in daily life, at least where I live.

I seen people speaking Irish outside the Gaelteacht and never see them getting odd looks. Where is this place?

irishguitarlad

Dont hate it but goddamn the romance languages are sexy as ****!

Dirty Dingus McGee

Orangebrigade wrote: »

It is state propaganda forced upon people. You should not have to learn Irish if you don't want to. Not everyone is Gaelic in thinking and thinks the Irish language is what defines them. You would be better learning Chinese and investing money into languages which are relevant in the world.

What good is Irish going to do in the 21st century? Keep it as a hobby but it should not be state funded.

What good is any subject in school.

Almost everything i learned in school was completely pointless including maths (and i work in the financial services industry).

ancapailldorcha

The King of Moo wrote: »

We had a weekly computer class which I was happy enough with. Especially because even back then in the mid-90s it wasn't obvious to all of us teens that computers would become such an everyday tool for non-nerds.

I'm starting to think that I was lucky in getting to go to a half-decent school!

We got to do an hour a week for the Leaving Cert years. However, our teacher was so abysmal that I picked up absolutely nothing so it made no difference.

martyos121

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I suspect that this is down to the average Irish person not having a clue as to what you're on about more than a breach of social etiquette.

Yeah, that's pretty much it. I just don't get how that's too different to saying I'm not able to go about my daily life as Gaelige outside of the Gaeltacht. That's what I was trying to say, maybe that damn Gaelscoil had a negative effect on my English! :pac:

Iwasfrozen

irishguitarlad wrote: »

Dont hate it but goddamn the romance languages are sexy as ****!

I'm currently learning some Spanish. Very beautiful language, in comparison Irish sounds like nails on a chalkboard.

ancapailldorcha

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

What good is any subject in school.

Almost everything i learned in school was completely pointless including maths (and i work in the financial services industry).

Until we have personalised education whereby each child receives lessons based on their individual strengths and needs then casting the net wide is the best that can be done. A lot of subjects while not obviously useful can teach one important life lessons. I was awful at Woodwork for example. However, I learned the importance of planning my work and patience from it.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

The King of Moo wrote: »

I completely agree. I think people were mainly bored by Irish in school because it wasn't made engaging for them.
I don't think everyone sees that when they look back on their schooldays and rationalise their annoyance with Irish with explanations from their adult life.

Well, there was kind of a point. I mean, as kids, you understand the point of English and Maths. You may not like them, but you understand why you need them. With irish, you don't understand why you need it.

As for other subjects like history and geogrpahy - at least they were being taught in a langauge I generally understood.

The King of Moo

syklops wrote: »

That was primary school and speaking to my friends and if you ask the boardsies here who do hate it with a passion, many of them came from schools with a similar organisation.

That's mental! I really hope your experience wasn't typical. At least nowadays it doesn't seem to be, from what I can see of my nephews' experiences.

Dughorm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I'm currently learning some Spanish. Very beautiful language, in comparison Irish sounds like nails on a chalkboard.

Perhaps they need to record some new voiceovers on the luas with sexy Gaeilge voices? If TG4 can manage it...

sky88

Because it's taught horribly in schools

LynnGrace

Stheno wrote: »

For me it's the way it was thought, over twenty years after I left school, I can still have a conversation in French or German, but Irish is beyond me, that's with five years of French and German and 13 of Irish.

I agree that the way that it is taught has a big influence. I was fortunate to have a good Irish teacher, at secondary school, and, in my opinion, that did make a difference.

Iwasfrozen

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Until we have personalised education whereby each child receives lessons based on their individual strengths and needs then casting the net wide is the best that can be done. A lot of subjects while not obviously useful can teach one important life lessons. I was awful at Woodwork for example. However, I learned the importance of planning my work and patience from it.

That doesn't work with all students though. When I was in 6th year I rebelled and refused to sit in Irish class any more. I still sat the leaving and got into my college course thanks to my grinds teacher but that should never have been an issue.

If an 18 year old doesn't want to waste time on a useless ugly language they shouldn't be forced to.

Dirty Dingus McGee

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Until we have personalised education whereby each child receives lessons based on their individual strengths and needs then casting the net wide is the best that can be done. A lot of subjects while not obviously useful can teach one important life lessons. I was awful at Woodwork for example. However, I learned the importance of planning my work and patience from it.

You could apply that principal to every single subject taught in school.

Nobody ever criticizes History being taught in schools even though it is probably the most pointless subject there is.It's great fun and everything and I loved it in school but Henry Ford was 100% right when he said it was nonsense as we're not going back to the past so why bother yourself thinking about it when you can't do anything to change it.

Iwasfrozen

Dughorm wrote: »

Perhaps they need to record some new voiceovers on the luas with sexy Gaeilge voices? If TG4 can manage it...

Ha, the TG4 girls are sexy in spite of their gutteral language, not because of it.

ancapailldorcha

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

That doesn't work with all students though. When I was in 6th year I rebelled and refused to sit in Irish class any more. I still sat the leaving and got into my college course thanks to my grinds teacher but that should never have been an issue.

If an 18 year old doesn't want to waste time on a useless ugly language they shouldn't be forced to.

Of course not! This is why the "if Irish is useless, we should get rid of anything else as well" argument holds no water with me. Irish has no value beyond providing fresh meat to the broken system which forces it down pupils' throats.

Dughorm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

If an 18 year old doesn't want to waste time on a useless ugly language they shouldn't be forced to.

Is that your stance regarding the need for a 3rd language for admission to several universities here also?

Dirty Dingus McGee

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

That doesn't work with all students though. When I was in 6th year I rebelled and refused to sit in Irish class any more. I still sat the leaving and got into my college course thanks to my grinds teacher but that should never have been an issue.

If an 18 year old doesn't want to waste time on a useless ugly language they shouldn't be forced to.

People are forced to do Maths even though leaving cert maths will be completely useless to the vast majority of people who study it.

irishguitarlad

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I'm currently learning some Spanish. Very beautiful language, in comparison Irish sounds like nails on a chalkboard.

Best thing you could ever do, it will give you lots of great experiences!

ancapailldorcha

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

You could apply that principal to every single subject taught in school.

Nobody ever criticizes History being taught in schools even though it is probably the most pointless subject there is.It's great fun and everything and I loved it in school but Henry Ford was 100% right when he said it was nonsense as we're not going back to the past so why bother yourself thinking about it when you can't do anything to change it.

Ah, that old strawman. I was wondering when it would appear. Maybe we should just have kids work in sweatshops then? Take back some of those jobs from China?

The King of Moo

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Well, there was kind of a point. I mean, as kids, you understand the point of English and Maths. You may not like them, but you understand why you need them. With irish, you don't understand why you need it.

As for other subjects like history and geogrpahy - at least they were being taught in a langauge I generally understood.

There's not an obvious or practical point to lots of subjects like English literature or history, but Irish bears the brunt of resentment because it was taught badly to a lot of people. If most people left school with a decent competence in the language, I don't think so many of them would complain about not using it in their daily lives. Very few people use their European language from secondary school in a meaningful way in their adult life, but you hear very few complaints about having French rammed down one's throat for five years.

Dughorm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Irish has no value beyond providing fresh meat to the broken system which forces it down pupils' throats.

But it does.... just not economic ones for the most of us.

ancapailldorcha

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Nobody ever criticizes History being taught in schools even though it is probably the most pointless subject there is. It's great fun and everything and I loved it in school but Henry Ford was 100% right when he said it was nonsense as we're not going back to the past so why bother yourself thinking about it when you can't do anything to change it.

I'm genuinely lost for words here.

Iwasfrozen

Dughorm wrote: »

Is that your stance regarding the need for a 3rd language for admission to several universities here also?

Yep

ancapailldorcha

Dughorm wrote: »

But it does.... just not economic ones for the most of us.

So the state should bear the absurd of propping up the scrounging Irish language lobby.

Dirty Dingus McGee

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Ah, that old strawman. I was wondering when it would appear. Maybe we should just have kids work in sweatshops then? Take back some of those jobs from China?

You've argued that teaching Irish was pointless but so are so many other subjects yet nobody ever suggests we should get rid of a wide range of subjects that are taught in school.Irish is about as pointless as any other subject in school and your suggestion of having an education tailored to each individual student isn't remotely practical.

Dughorm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

So the state should bear the absurd of propping up the scrounging Irish language lobby.

Lol, not quite where I was going....but anyway...

Not economic reasons, but for reasons of culture, history and heritage. Some might include political reasons but I don't personally.

Dirty Dingus McGee

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I'm genuinely lost for words here.

Why?

History is a pointless subject . I've not had one single practical benefit in my working life from my knowledge of the causes of world war 2 and all the other stuff I learned in history classes in school.

ancapailldorcha

Dughorm wrote: »

Lol, not quite where I was going....but anyway...

Not economic reasons, but for reasons of culture, history and heritage. Some might include political reasons but I don't personally.

So it's the "ah sure, it's our culture" nonsense then. Why not campaign for roof-thatching, farming, paganism and so on to be included in our curriculum given that it's so important then?

ancapailldorcha

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

You've argued that teaching Irish was pointless but so are so many other subjects yet nobody ever suggests we should get rid of a wide range of subjects that are taught in school.Irish is about as pointless as any other subject in school and your suggestion of having an education tailored to each individual student isn't remotely practical.

That's the point. The rest of the curriculum is based on estimating where pupils are most likely to go after school. It needs updating to include IT as well as allocating more time to science and engineering but until personalised education becomes commonplace this is the best approach.

ted1

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

So the state should bear the absurd of propping up the scrounging Irish language lobby.

You have an Interesting Username...