LOI Talk, Rumours, Gossip, Transfers etc 2018

red sean

topmanamillion wrote: »

An awful lot of the stuff in the article didn't add up at all.
He says if he'd been renting it would cost him £800 /month or about E1000.
In Bruff???

He also says something like John O'Flynn spent years in the English. Championship (he never played a minute of Championship football)

Then there's the stuff about the ghost. He doesn't seem to be the full shilling.

Shocked he didn't get introduced to some leprechauns and fairies!

monkey9

The former LOI lads in the Irish squad were trying on their old club's jerseys today.

SantryRed

Things that bad that Waterford couldn't send a jersey over?

pablomakaveli

Imagine having Long and Meyler back in a City jersey. Would have been nice if we could have had Long playing for a season or two in the first team.

prodsc

monkey9 wrote: »

The former LOI lads in the Irish squad were trying on their old club's jerseys today.

Cheer up lads FFS! At least we sent ye on yer way!

Christy Browne

SantryRed wrote: »

Things that bad that Waterford couldn't send a jersey over?

That is the Waterford jersey, one of the big reasons for the financial problems is we couldn't get a sponsor for it!

Darkglasses

Just the away one has a sponsor (last year's I presume)?

topmanamillion

Christy Browne wrote: »

That is the Waterford jersey, one of the big reasons for the financial problems is we couldn't get a sponsor for it!

That's desperate bad.
Even an U12s team can get a sponsor.
Surely even a local pub giving a pittance for the season was better than leaving it blank and having no sponsor income.

Gavin "shels"

Our new jersey suits him...

AidySevenfold

Yeah was saying for the sake of 10-15k for jersey sponsorship, some business in Waterford missed out on some great exposure yesterday with that photo

cms88

Christy Browne wrote: »

That is the Waterford jersey, one of the big reasons for the financial problems is we couldn't get a sponsor for it!

Probably more of a case that no one came and offered to sponsor them so then they just didn't bother

topmanamillion

cms88 wrote: »

Probably more of a case that no one came and offered to sponsor them so then they just didn't bother

Very few teams, particularly LOI teams, have sponsors knocking on their door. Waterford should be out chasing sponsors. Even if it's only 5k,its better than nothing, or why not stick Unicef/Goal or some other charity on it?

I think it's endemic of the way Waterford is being run that they aren't arsed about things like this.

HalloweenJack

Wanderers had Volkswagen a few years back but it was really the local dealership. Even our current sponsors are tied to the owners.

topmanamillion

HalloweenJack wrote: »

Wanderers had Volkswagen a few years back but it was really the local dealership. Even our current sponsors are tied to the owners.

Its the same with Sligo Rovers down here. Nothing wrong with it. VW also built a stand for us so no complaints here.

cms88

With Alan Mathews stepping down where does that leave athlone? Will they even see out the season?

Darkglasses

cms88 wrote: »

With Alan Mathews stepping down where does that leave athlone? Will they even see out the season?

Wouldn't bet on it, sadly. Hope I'm wrong.

Apparently all 22 players have left and the Chairman didn't even bother meeting with the FAI investigator. Doesn't sound like there's much of a club left.

cms88

Darkglasses wrote: »

Wouldn't bet on it, sadly. Hope I'm wrong.

Apparently all 22 players have left and the Chairman didn't even bother meeting with the FAI investigator. Doesn't sound like there's much of a club left.

I can never understand why boards of clubs like that even bother when they clearly dont give a ****! It cant be for the money

Darkglasses

cms88 wrote: »

I can never understand why boards of clubs like that even bother when they clearly dont give a ****! It cant be for the money

Chairman sounds like a real piece of work if the rumours are true (and I think they are). Some nasty truths may come out later.

cms88

Ironic that 4 years on that thesame could happen during this Euros

http://leagueofireland.ie/index.php/2016/06/18/monaghan-united-league-of-ireland/

joeysoap

cms88 wrote: »

Ironic that 4 years on that thesame could happen during this Euros

http://leagueofireland.ie/index.php/2016/06/18/monaghan-united-league-of-ireland/

Reading that Monaghan's average was around the 180 mark. You cannot run a LOI club on those attendances. Remember the old joke 'how do you make a small fortune in the LOI- start with a big one'

hufpc8w3adnk65

Are Athlone gone?

namloc1980

MrMac84 wrote: »

Are Athlone gone?

Their U19 team will play the League game against Cobh on Friday apparently. Only a matter of time before they're gone.

CSF

joeysoap wrote: »

Reading that Monaghan's average was around the 180 mark. You cannot run a LOI club on those attendances. Remember the old joke 'how do you make a small fortune in the LOI- start with a big one'

The thing is, you can. You just can't go assembling a promotion chasing squad and have Roddy Collins as your manager.

Monaghan survived just fine until they got ideas above their station. And the maddest thing about it is if clubs didn't keep assembling squads that matched their income streams, then the cost of assembling a squad would be lower for everyone.

topmanamillion

CSF wrote: »

The thing is, you can. You just can't go assembling a promotion chasing squad and have Roddy Collins as your manager.

Monaghan survived just fine until they got ideas above their station. And the maddest thing about it is if clubs didn't keep assembling squads that matched their income streams, then the cost of assembling a squad would be lower for everyone.

+1

This is what happens when clubs bet the farm on promotion.
Even Limerick this year have done it. If this season hadn't have gone to plan they'd be dead and buried. No question about it. That's no way to run a club.

180 people X 10 Euro X 14 First Division games = E72000
That's ample to run a locally based amateur playing squad paying expense only.

Fair enough there won't be any promotions but Monaghan only spent 3 1/2 seasons out of their 25 seasons in the league in the Premier Division.

Saint_Mel

namloc1980 wrote: »

Their U19 team will play the League game against Cobh on Friday apparently. Only a matter of time before they're gone.

15 players signed for senior team since the weekend. Some from the U17/U19 and some from Junior football.

PP not offering odds on the game

Paz-CCFC

CSF wrote: »

The thing is, you can. You just can't go assembling a promotion chasing squad and have Roddy Collins as your manager.

Monaghan survived just fine until they got ideas above their station. And the maddest thing about it is if clubs didn't keep assembling squads that matched their income streams, then the cost of assembling a squad would be lower for everyone.

In fairness to Monaghan, they weren't like City, Shels, Bohs etc. racking up debts in the hundreds of thousands. They withdrew over the sum of about €10,000. Which, at the time, was less than the difference a club paid to the FAI in registration fees versus what they got in prize money if they finished in the bottom few spots of the Premier Division. It wasn't just their wage bill, but the many many other costs associated with a football club, which all add up. And the club didn't go bust. Withdrawing from the league actually allowed them to survive. They still enter underage teams at local level.

topmanamillion wrote: »

180 people X 10 Euro X 14 First Division games = E72000
That's ample to run a locally based amateur playing squad paying expense only.

I heard a few years ago that the minimum figure was more like €100,000. Given that you now need an under 19s and an under 17s national team, that's probably more, as well as slight general inflation. There are 101 expenses other than wages that a club has to pay and they all add up.

Kit for senior team (squad of 20ish)
Kit for U19s
Kit for U17s
14 buses for away matches plus cup games (if First Division - 16/17 for PD teams)
Buses for underage teams (~20 away matches between U19s and U17s)
Stadium rental (or maintenance if own ground)
Training pitch rental (or maintenance if own ground/training pitch - in pre-season, all clubs would need to use all-weather pitches, though)
Training/gym equipment
Pre-match meals for players
Office equipment, stationery etc.
Stewards, security and Gardaí on matchnight
Travel for club delegates to attend league meetings, cup draws etc.
Wages for manager and backroom staff (you might get a squad of amateur players, but I doubt UEFA Pro/A Licensed managers and coaches and qualified physios and doctors are going to work for free)
Wages for office staff
Referee and FAI delegate expenses

That's about 15 costs associated with running a national level football that I've thought of off the top of my head. No doubt that there are dozens of more. You wouldn't be long eating into that €70k which you feel would be more than enough.

CSF

In regards to the Monaghan/Shels/Cork comparison, it's all relative. Monaghan may not have been spending the same amount as those teams but they were getting probably less than 10% of income of those teams.

We all have our different amounts we can afford to spend relative to our income. Dundalk seem to be able to keep a good few of their players from going over to England without breaking the bank while other clubs need to have the majority of their players on amateur contracts.

Monaghan fitted the latter category and were still assembling a promotion squad to rival the best of us. And people still blame the FAI for this. I'll blame them for the lack of promotion they do for the league and general disinterest, but the blame for clubs not be able to run themselves falls solely on themselves.

Dodge

CSF wrote: »

And people still blame the FAI for this. I'll blame them for the lack of promotion they do for the league and general disinterest, but the blame for clubs not be able to run themselves falls solely on themselves.

The FAI are in charge of licensing. Monaghan's budget was presumably approved for 2012. Athlone's was presumably approved for 2016 (and every other club in between).

They have to take some responsibility. I'm not suggesting clubs aren't a problem, I'm just pointing out that there are supposed to be safeguards in place and the FAI either don't care enough to use them, or willfully ignore them.

(ps mightn't get too many post on here before the lock up the forum again)

joeysoap

All good posts. I would have thought a minimum of €200,000 to run a club anywhere near properly. In addition to PAZ-CCFC's list you would have to add insurance, both for players and public liability. Electricity costs and if you are supplying your players with any sort of refreshments on away days. I also think before the fixtures are finalised the league should have a look at them and see if they are fairly balanced. In the year Monaghan exited Dundalk almost exited with them( though I think there was enough support to rescue the club). That year Dundalk played Drogheda away twice (local derby - decent gate). Shamrock Rovers away twice, , Sligo away twice, Derry away twice - all potential decent home gates. Cork away twice (longest away trip twice) and were due to play Monaghan twice away as well. Home twice - UCD, Bray, Shels, Bohs and Pats. Shams were the holders and Sligo went on to win. I know Dundalk raised it the league, to be up informed that if they were in the premier the following year the fixtures would be reversed - which they were). Drogheda were dealt almost the same hand in 2013. I cannot see how the league would not recognise how a club would need at least three potential good gates twice at home to survive. Dundalk almost went under, new owners took over and as luck would have it Stephen Kenny had been fired by Shams and was nursing his wounds in Donegal when they approached him. Lucky.

overshoot

topmanamillion wrote: »

+1

180 people X 10 Euro X 14 First Division games = E72000
That's ample to run a locally based amateur playing squad paying expense only.

180 X 10 is €1800
remember seeing before officials for a home game €1500
(someone please say im wrong given the woeful standard of them)
That leaves €300 - less kids/OAP/Student discounts + whats made in the shops

I think Harps were run last year on €240,000. Thats pretty much just expenses to players, and the running of the club, 11,000 km of buses for the senior team alone, and underage national teams (academy is separate financially). Im sure it could be cut further but definitely not to €72,000. The only overnight was Limerick in the playoffs and i believe McGettigans put us up in their hotel for free. We would have broken even but for the playoffs so turned a five figure profit - which all went into premier upgrades

CSF

Dodge wrote: »

The FAI are in charge of licensing. Monaghan's budget was presumably approved for 2012. Athlone's was presumably approved for 2016 (and every other club in between).

They have to take some responsibility. I'm not suggesting clubs aren't a problem, I'm just pointing out that there are supposed to be safeguards in place and the FAI either don't care enough to use them, or willfully ignore them.

(ps mightn't get too many post on here before the lock up the forum again)

I agree with you. But could you imagine the uproar if the FAI had kicked Monaghan out of the league instead?

topmanamillion

Seeing as league clubs voted down a motion to regionalise the FD & also voted out the A Championship it's very hard to be sympathetic to clubs struggling with travel costs!

Dodge

CSF wrote: »

I agree with you. But could you imagine the uproar if the FAI had kicked Monaghan out of the league instead?

Yep, it needs to happen though. No licence if you don't pass the test. If that means 12 clubs left, then so be it.

topmanamillion

Dodge wrote: »

Yep, it needs to happen though. No licence if you don't pass the test. If that means 12 clubs left, then so be it.

12 clubs left is probably very optimistic!

Something drastic like that does need to happen.
The likes of Bray & Drogheda being allowed to play out of hovels in the PD for years while they tell fairytales about building a new stadium makes a mockery of club licensing.

The league needs minimum standards and no excuses from clubs that don't meet them.

dan1895

Remember other clubs like Bohs and Limerick had bucket collections to help out Waterford? Well they've spent the money on bringing in Robert Bayley.

overshoot

dan1895 wrote: »

Remember other clubs like Bohs and Limerick had bucket collections to help out Waterford? Well they've spent the money on bringing in Robert Bayley.

thats twice now they have gone out with the begging bowl and then signed players. frankly despicable, and could easily end up with a boy who cried wolf scenario

Left Back on the Bench

topmanamillion wrote:

This is what happens when clubs bet the farm on promotion. Even Limerick this year have done it. If this season hadn't have gone to plan they'd be dead and buried. No question about it. That's no way to run a club.

Limerick are very well run and get over 1000 attendance each home game. €15 for stand and €12 for terrace.

Dodge

Left Back on the Bench wrote: »

Limerick are very well run and get over 1000 attendance each home game. €15 for stand and €12 for terrace.

http://www.limerickfc.ie/statement-from-chairman-pat-osullivan

That's only last year so you can climb down from that high horse there

CHealy

Left Back on the Bench wrote: »

Limerick are very well run and get over 1000 attendance each home game. €15 for stand and €12 for terrace.

Hahaha

Left Back on the Bench

Dodge wrote:

That's only last year so you can climb down from that high horse there

I'm missing the point there. He said the club needs to be self sufficient and he was no longer financially backing it. He said all this in the middle of Thomond park 2 seasons ago at the last home game

Left Back on the Bench

CHealy wrote:

Hahaha

Can't all pull in big crowds like cork city but to say we're getting 180 like some other struggling clubs is wrong.

andekwarhola

Left Back on the Bench wrote: »

Limerick are very well run

In this league, that means temporarily rolling in money and winning things.

Dodge

Left Back on the Bench wrote: »

I'm missing the point there. He said the club needs to be self sufficient and he was no longer financially backing it. He said all this in the middle of Thomond park 2 seasons ago at the last home game

OK> You said you're well run and pulling in crowds of 1,000 in response to "Limerick would be in trouble".

Only last year Limerick were playing in front of a handful of people and losing buckets of money.

It's great that your crowds are good now, but EVERY club is one/two bad decisions away from the poorhouse, like Limerick were when Markets Field was put off for a number of months.

CHealy

Left Back on the Bench wrote: »

Can't all pull in big crowds like cork city but to say we're getting 180 like some other struggling clubs is wrong.

Thats grand but the smugness that came off your post was always going to get you a few comments. This time last year Limerick were on the brink, I remember going to one game in Thomand Park and there cant have been more than 200 Limerick fans there. Fantastic that ye are doing well now and have a nice ground but when there is one man pumping money into the club, it almost never ends well.

topmanamillion

Left Back on the Bench wrote: »

I'm missing the point there. He said the club needs to be self sufficient and he was no longer financially backing it. He said all this in the middle of Thomond park 2 seasons ago at the last home game

Pat O'Sullivan pulled the funding at the beginning of last year's Premier Division season.
Their budget is now multiples of what it was last year but yet they play in the second tier.
Players like John O'Flynn, Treacy, Greene & Hall are rumoured to be on a 4 figure sum per week.

Just as an example Greene was offered squad football at Cork City, the chance to compete for leagues and major honours but choose Cabinteely on a wet Friday night?
Something stinks rotten at Limerick. I suspect it will come to the boil soon.

Dodge

Think those "4 figure sums" rumours are way off. Most players in the top PD teams aren't earning 4 figures, let alone someone who was released by Pats and Rovers in the last 3 seasons

topmanamillion

Dodge wrote: »

Think those "4 figure sums" rumours are way off. Most players in the top PD teams aren't earning 4 figures, let alone someone who was released by Pats and Rovers in the last 3 seasons

Perhaps but those players I mentioned aren't there for a pittance.

Left Back on the Bench

CHealy wrote:

Thats grand but the smugness that came off your post was always going to get you a few comments. This time last year Limerick were on the brink, I remember going to one game in Thomand Park and there cant have been more than 200 Limerick fans there. Fantastic that ye are doing well now and have a nice ground but when there is one man pumping money into the club, it almost never ends well.

Definitely didn't mean it to sound like that. Thomond park and Jackman were major problems. People were hearing about markets field and it kept being delayed. Markets field is a nice ground in fairness and people seem to have bought into going.

Frogdog

Posted here earlier about becoming a LoI (and St Pats) fan for the first time this season. I'm now after getting the chance to write an article on a recent encounter I had with Dunphy regarding the LoI also:

http://leagueofireland.ie/index.php/2016/06/21/eamon-dunphy-league-of-ireland/

JoeyJJ

Fair play Pats need all the fans they can get

Think I am totally disillusioned this season, stories like Waterford and Athlone all to familiar.