LOI Talk, Rumours, Gossip, Transfers etc 2018

artanevilla

And 5 copies of Fifa 2018 for either PS or XBOX, but not both.
5 copies of Fifa 2017 for PS3 for the runners up.

I think the FAI withholds the copies though in lieu of licencing fees.

Smell the glove

In all seriousness I think it's €25,000 since a few years back. Still a pittance.

joeysoap

The FAI ‘advertise’ €110,000 for winning the PD. (In reality it’s €500,000 +)

And I think the Daily Mail cup is worth €50,000 + a place in Europe (that place has been taken by the 4th side in the PD for the last number of years)

Lyle Lanley

joeysoap wrote: »

The FAI ‘advertise’ €110,000 for winning the PD. (In reality it’s €500,000 +)

And I think the Daily Mail cup is worth €50,000 + a place in Europe (that place has been taken by the 4th side in the PD for the last number of years)

Where's the 500k figure coming from? Minimum European winnings?

Zebra3

https://www.donegaldemocrat.ie/news/sport/309929/breaking-minister-confirms-funding-support-for-new-harps-stadium.html

Some good news for Harps (and the league) it would seem.

joeysoap

Lyle Lanley wrote: »

Where's the 500k figure coming from? Minimum European winnings?

According to this it was about €580k in 2017. Afaik it’s bigger this year, and if city don’t make it past their first matches they have a parachute drop into the Europa league 2nd round.

http://www.the42.ie/loi-earnings-from-europe-2017-3507782-Jul2017/

So probably closer to €600k. And Delaney and Co. are aware of this, hence I can’t see the winning LOI prizemoney being increased anytime soon. But they really have to do something about the clubs that don’t qualify for Europe.

joeysoap

Zebra3 wrote: »

https://www.donegaldemocrat.ie/news/sport/309929/breaking-minister-confirms-funding-support-for-new-harps-stadium.html

Some good news for Harps (and the league) it would seem.

Good to see, hopefully work can resume soon. There was probably never any need for an all seater stadium in Stranorlar/Ballybofey anyway.

Plastic pitch perhaps? :pac:

doncarlos

joeysoap wrote: »

and if city don’t make it past their first matches they have a parachute drop into the Europa league 2nd round.

It'll actually be easier for the league winners to qualify for the Europa League now but much harder to qualify for the Champions league.

The League winners will only be playing the other losers from the Champions league qualifiers so with a bit of luck only one decent team may need to be beaten. I think we will see Irish teams in the group stages of Europa league on a semi regular basis now following this route. Hopefully it doesn't start with Cork this season.

overshoot

joeysoap wrote: »

Good to see, hopefully work can resume soon. There was probably never any need for an all seater stadium in Stranorlar/Ballybofey anyway.

Plastic pitch perhaps? :pac:

There was an announcement months ago about the goal ends becoming terraces. No real issue there, main stand still 1954 seater, too far built to be changed. Opposite was meant to be the same but may be reduced capacity, remain seated.
Goals terraced. Would probably still leave you c6,000 capacity.

It be curious what the "sequence & manner of events" is. Theres absolutely nothing from the club being put to the public. Hard to be optimistic about work at this stage. Been enough false dawns. Its sitting like that since September 2014. Even the wording of the quotes would suggest the above is stretching expectations.

I'd take any pitch tbh

Paz-CCFC

Last season, Dundalk got €580,000 for getting knocked out of the Champions League in the round they started in.

Second round - €320k
Solidarity payment - €260k (all champions who don't qualify for the group stages get this)

Based on these figures, City would be guaranteed €705k.

First round CL - €220k (LoI teams start a round earlier this year)
Solidarity payment - €260k
Second round EL - €225k

That's assuming the prize money for the qualifers will be the same next season. But it'll probably be a good bit more. UEFA announced that the total prize pool would increase by nearly 50% next season compared to this year, from €2.3bn to €3.4bn. While we'll be getting the scraps of this, it'll still be probably be a significant sum compared to what we're used to here (haven't been able to find the breakdown for the qualifiers).

Qualifying for the EL group stages when starting in the CL is easier in some ways, but tougher in others. You get the second bite of the cherry from the start instead of having to win one round, but you have to win three rounds instead of two to qualify now. This creates a bit more fixture congestion. The EL side of things is a bit easier by having only champions eliminated from the CL, but you're still going to get some bigger sides in the latter rounds. Group stage qualification for teams starting in the EL is much tougher, although Dundalk will be seeded for both the first and second round, so they have a great chance of making it to the third. In the third round, though, the lowest ranked sides (as the leagues currently stand) include Eintracht Frankfurt and Burnley, while the biggest sides are Sevilla, Zenit and Olympiakos. Even a "lucky" draw would be very difficult.

Co-efficients have been increased for EL sides as well, so teams consistently qualifying have a better chance of being seeded. For the last three years, City got 1.75 points (0.25 - 1st round, 1 - 3rd round and 0.5 - 2nd). If we had performed the same with the new calculation, we'd have gotten 4.5 (1, 2 and 1.5).

MD1990

Bar Dundalk I think the rest of the teams will struggle in Europe this season.

AGC

UEFA earnings nothing to do with the FAI so they should not be used in the same bracket

Omackeral

MD1990 wrote: »

Bar Dundalk I think the rest of the teams will struggle in Europe this season.

I don't know, Rovers have been in a fair few cup finals the last few weeks and that could stand to them.

joeysoap

AGC wrote: »

UEFA earnings nothing to do with the FAI so they should not be used in the same bracket

You think City,Dundalk, Derry, Rovers and perhaps Waterford and Pats haven’t factored European money to their playing budgets?

AGC

joeysoap wrote: »

You think City,Dundalk, Derry, Rovers and perhaps Waterford and Pats haven’t factored European money to their playing budgets?

I’m sure they have and more fool them. 1 round of Europa League in Ukraine you won’t be long seeing your budget go down the jacks

artanevilla

joeysoap wrote: »

You think City,Dundalk, Derry, Rovers and perhaps Waterford and Pats haven’t factored European money to their playing budgets?

You're not allowed factor in prize money into your budget when applying for a licence as far as I know.

Loop

AGC wrote: »

I’m sure they have and more fool them. 1 round of Europa League in Ukraine you won’t be long seeing your budget go down the jacks

There's a seperate travel allowance to cover those kind of costs.

Cape Clear

AGC wrote: »

I’m sure they have and more fool them. 1 round of Europa League in Ukraine you won’t be long seeing your budget go down the jacks

I think this is a fair point. The headline money looks great but the costs of chartering a plane and booking accommodation for c. 25 people in the height of summer at short notice are quite significant. Along with extra security and costs of holding the home leg are not to be sneezed at either.

AGC

artanevilla wrote: »

You're not allowed factor in prize money into your budget when applying for a licence as far as I know.

Loop

There's a seperate travel allowance to cover those kind of costs.

Since when?

Zebra3

I’d assume you can add European money into your budget if you’ve actually qualified for it!

AGC

Zebra3 wrote: »

I’d assume you can add European money into your budget if you’ve actually qualified for it!

So how much do you include? You can’t budget for the unknown

doncarlos

MD1990 wrote: »

Bar Dundalk I think the rest of the teams will struggle in Europe this season.

I think Cork could get through a round in Champions league and maybe another one or two in Europa league. Rovers or Derry could do OK if draws are favorable.

Any team could get screwed though if they get the top team on the seeded or non seeded sides of draw.

Paz-CCFC

AGC wrote: »

So how much do you include? You can’t budget for the unknown

A budget is a forecast of income and expenditure, so none of it is 100% known. Some of it, you'll be fairly sure of (minimum prize money), other things are a bit more unpredictable (attendances). You're essentially giving the best estimates you can, based on experience. I would think clubs communicate with one another as well, re costs that some may be more familiar with than others.

Prize money, both FAI and UEFA, are incomes that you can be fairly sure are going to come in. I don't see why you couldn't put that into your income, because it's income that you're going to get. Now, in your expenditure, you'd have to take into account the associated costs, such as travel, and you'd want to be prepared for the potential of drawing a far-away team. This applies to local level, as well - the bus you end up hiring for an away match might end up more expensive than you forecasted in your budget. Not all figures are going to be bang on, but hopefully you have enough leeway in your figures to make this up (not all clubs would have such a luxury, though).

If you chose to exclude prize money and associated costs with Europe, you could end up being caught by not planning for a potential overdraft that you might need to cover temporarily cover costs while you're waiting for money to come in. Income and expenditure doesn't all come in and go out at the same time, so you need to account for as much as you can from a cash-flow point of view.

doncarlos wrote: »

I think Cork could get through a round in Champions league and maybe another one or two in Europa league. Rovers or Derry could do OK if draws are favorable.

Any team could get screwed though if they get the top team on the seeded or non seeded sides of draw.

I don't think we'll get through in the Champions League. A lot of tough teams in there. Even the lower seeded sides like TNS, while giving us a chance, would be favourites. Think we have a decent chance of getting through one round in the Europa League, though. Some decent possible draws in there like the Gibraltar, Andorra or Faroe Islands champions. Might end up getting drawn against a bigger side in the CL as well and take their seeding from into the EL (the draws for the first and second rounds are all made at the same time).

Dundalk have a great chance of getting to round 3. A lot of decent unseeded sides in the second round, none that you'd really consider a banker, like some of the sides in the first round, but at least you're avoiding all the big sides. Not sure about Derry and Rovers. Some good seeded sides to get, but some very tough ones like Copenhagen or Legia.

List of teams and their seedings for both competitions here, based on European league standings as they are now.

major bill

I am all for Teams doing well in Europe (Bar Rovers ) But with the money involved now compared to a few years ago it's becoming or will become impossible for any team outside of Dundalk and Cork to compete for the league or any team outside of top 4 to even compete for that. A two tier league is developing and it's only going to get worse as the years go by.

While it would be great to see teams regularly compete in the Europa League group stages the Bohs man inside me is thinking ''**** that'' hope they go out in first round

soar grapes or do others feel the same?

Mr_A

Agreed completely. The money is skewing the league and it's losing its traditional turnover of teams at the top. Also the league schedule is too focussed on Europe given that the clubs involved should have the resources to cope with it.

I don't think having clubs progress a few rounds in Europe does much for anyone but the clubs involved.

Oat23

major bill wrote: »

I am all for Teams doing well in Europe (Bar Rovers ) But with the money involved now compared to a few years ago it's becoming or will become impossible for any team outside of Dundalk and Cork to compete for the league or any team outside of top 4 to even compete for that. A two tier league is developing and it's only going to get worse as the years go by.

While it would be great to see teams regularly compete in the Europa League group stages the Bohs man inside me is thinking ''**** that'' hope they go out in first round

soar grapes or do others feel the same?

Not sour grapes at all. I'm sure Cork/Dundalk fans aren't bothered but for the rest of us it's more about the competitiveness of the league being taken. Look at Scotland for example. It's sh*te.

In Ireland it'll be even worse as the gap between league money and europa league qualifier money is even bigger than the SPL. The top 4 teams will be far ahead of the rest of us. I think it'll be Cork, Dundalk and Shams (when they get a competent coach) in the top 3 for many years to come. Waterford may be the 4th if they continue to get investment in the next 2-3 years.

Omackeral

major bill wrote: »

But with the money involved now compared to a few years ago it's becoming or will become impossible for any team outside of Dundalk and Cork to compete for the league or any team outside of top 4 to even compete for that.

Heard the same when Rovers made the Europa League group stages. Dominate for a decade was what they said. Sligo Rovers won the league and a couple of cups. A few years on when Dundalk did it had euro succes, we heard it again. It was over for the foreseeable... until Cork did the double. This league is nothing if unpredictable. 10 years ago, Cork were all but a phoenix club and Dundalk were in the First Division. In 2028, Cabinteely will win the re-established Intertoto cup, chalk it down.

major bill

Omackeral wrote: »

Heard the same when Rovers made the Europa League group stages. Dominate for a decade was what they said. Sligo Rovers won the league and a couple of cups. A few years on when Dundalk did it had euro succes, we heard it again. It was over for the foreseeable... until Cork did the double. This league is nothing if unpredictable. 10 years ago, Cork were all but a phoenix club and Dundalk were in the First Division. In 2028, Cabinteely will win the re-established Intertoto cup, chalk it down.

Dundalk had a set back last season with the loss of very talented players to England, took them awhile to get going but still managed to finish second comfortably and weren't far off the title.
Point being made is the Money on offer now is making the league very uncompetitive to the point I no longer want the likes of Cork or Dundalk to have any further success in Europe as it will bridge the gap even more. The money Rovers received in 2011 is much lower to what a club can make now if they were to qualify for Europa League.
I take the point its been said before and teams have dominated in the past Shels/Bohs in the early 00s , Bohs/Rovers late 00s , Cork/Dundalk now but its different now, a lot more money on offer.

TLDR : I am a bit jealous but its slightly worrying.

joeysoap

AGC wrote: »

I’m sure they have and more fool them. 1 round of Europa League in Ukraine you won’t be long seeing your budget go down the jacks

I accept what you are saying, however the clubs that have qualified for Europe should be in a position to sign the *’better’ players in advance of the season starting. * better is subjective and does not necessarily work out.

major bill wrote: »

I am all for Teams doing well in Europe (Bar Rovers ) But with the money involved now compared to a few years ago it's becoming or will become impossible for any team outside of Dundalk and Cork to compete for the league or any team outside of top 4 to even compete for that. A two tier league is developing and it's only going to get worse as the years go by.

While it would be great to see teams regularly compete in the Europa League group stages the Bohs man inside me is thinking ''**** that'' hope they go out in first round

soar grapes or do others feel the same?

As a Dundalk fan I can symphatise with that. We were in the 1st division when Drogheda were PD champs, and yes, we looked on with green eyes. I think if Dundalk had beaten Legia in 2016 every premier division club would have received European money. But they didn’t.....

And costs can add up with no money coming in: in 2016 Dundalk went something like 76 days with no home game, great in Europe but no money coming in, they had to borrow money off their bank twice as far as I know. They applied to UEFA for an advance which I believe was forthcoming. Ther final payment wasn’t received until 2017. Ticketmaster sold the tickets for the Legia and Europa League matches and they don’t settle accounts for something like 30 days after the event is over. The Aviva cost around €200k.

osarusan

As long as LOI clubs continue the noble tradition of pissing away their money on overpaid players and hare-brained schemes that fail, it'll be grand.

diusmr8a504cvk

Nobody talks about being part-time more than Bohs, it's draining. I'd be inclined to agree with Kenny Shiels' opinion on them.

Zico !

MD1990 wrote: »

Bar Dundalk I think the rest of the teams will struggle in Europe this season.

Plastic pitch may catch out a few of the turd teams theyll be playing in the prelim rounds allright

artanevilla

Colson Few Peak wrote: »

Nobody talks about being part-time more than Bohs, it's draining. I'd be inclined to agree with Kenny Shiels' opinion on them.

But Bohs are part-time, no two ways about it no matter what your opinion is.

Omackeral

Colson Few Peak wrote: »

Nobody talks about being part-time more than Bohs, it's draining. I'd be inclined to agree with Kenny Shiels' opinion on them.

Shiels is a crying kunt himself.

Derry City boss Kenny Shiels claims he would rather play matches in a public park than on some League of Ireland pitches.
He felt compelled to substitute two players - Aaron McEneff and Ben Doherty - in Monday’s 0-0 draw at Galway United because of the Eamonn Deacy Park surface.

tayto lover

Zico ! wrote: »

Plastic pitch may catch out a few of the turd teams theyll be playing in the prelim rounds allright

There was no plastic pitch in Tallaght when Dundalk stroked it around like Brazil.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xArJcX6D2uk

Lyle Lanley

artanevilla wrote: »

You're not allowed factor in prize money into your budget when applying for a licence as far as I know..

Bray were granted a licence factoring in money they are due to recieve from the prince of Nigeria.

joeysoap

tayto lover wrote: »

There was no plastic pitch in Tallaght when Dundalk stroked it around like Brazil.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xArJcX6D2uk

Or against Maccabi

https://youtu.be/ESi9jA18B_M

How about away to friendly Legia ( I know it was only a draw on their grass). The FAI could pay Delaneys wages from the fines they would impose on a LOI club for the flares here.

https://youtu.be/zGpcjLCjrHs

Or maybe the Dutch have a different meaning for grass :eek:

https://youtu.be/0_oXBrbpN6o




Stop it Zico, your making me nostalgic for the old days!

Did you start on that wall yet

peteeeed

Lyle Lanley wrote: »

Bray were granted a licence factoring in money they are due to recieve from the prince of Nigeria.

gerry mulvay is nigerian ?

doncarlos

peteeeed wrote: »

gerry mulvay is nigerian ?

Great... Another lad for the Cork fans to wave their confederate flags at

Gavin "shels"

artanevilla wrote: »

But Bohs are part-time, no two ways about it no matter what your opinion is.

70% of the Premier teams are part time, no? Aside from Dundalk, Cork, Waterford what teams are fully full time?

AGC

Gavin "shels" wrote: »

70% of the Premier teams are part time, no? Aside from Dundalk, Cork, Waterford what teams are fully full time?

Rovers

Zebra3

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bray-wanderers-sanctioned-for-missing-state-funds-9xkhq90nk

Funny goings on at Bray shocker.

peteeeed

Zebra3 wrote: »

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bray-wanderers-sanctioned-for-missing-state-funds-9xkhq90nk

Funny goings on at Bray shocker.

yeah that's from 2006 , can't believe that investigation is still going on or just finished

joeysoap

peteeeed wrote: »

gerry mulvay is nigerian ?

He’s in Panmunjom today.

artanevilla

Gavin "shels" wrote: »

70% of the Premier teams are part time, no? Aside from Dundalk, Cork, Waterford what teams are fully full time?

Rovers are. Pat's and Derry are mostly full time as well I think. Open to correction.

Charliebull

artanevilla wrote: »

Rovers are. Pat's and Derry are mostly full time as well I think. Open to correction.

yes sligo rovers are full time

artanevilla

Charliebull wrote: »

yes sligo rovers are full time

I know that three teams were part time last season so there was a worry around Bohs as three were going down.

To be honest, part time suits us, we can offer good players a chance to work on their careers outside football/full time study etc, being based in Dublin is oviously an incentive.

I think we attract better players by this system, a lot of our part timers are better than full time players in the league.

joeysoap

In 2016 the four biggest budgets reportedly were Rovers , Pats and Limerick and Dundalk.I assume City were in the mix. Limerick were relegated on a apparently budget. I vaguely recall on soccer republic one of the panel last year saying Sligo Rovers were full time and shouldn’t be in the position they were at that stage.

I don’t understand where Shamrock Rovers form has gone. They were 50:50 with Dundalk in Oriel, couple of misjudgments by the keeper only real difference that night.

artanevilla

Losing their last three cup finals obviously had a huge effect on morale.

dfx-

artanevilla wrote: »

I know that three teams were part time last season so there was a worry around Bohs as three were going down.

To be honest, part time suits us, we can offer good players a chance to work on their careers outside football/full time study etc, being based in Dublin is oviously an incentive.

I think we attract better players by this system, a lot of our part timers are better than full time players in the league.

I think this is very arguable, Bohs only have three wins (would be more if they could play Rovers every week). It's perhaps more that it suits them as Bohs fans are ok with where they are, but you definitely don't get better players.

artanevilla

It's been a slow start to this season but the last few seasons have show that part time works in our case. Okay we're not challenging for titles but in our financial position we've done exceptionally well particularly with no major backer behind us.

It's sustainable in the long term and I think the club has learned from past mistakes that the club comes first, lashing money at the playing budget might win the league but the club may suffer when things take a turn.