LOI Talk, Rumours, Gossip, Transfers etc 2018

dan1895

SantryRed wrote: »

I'd love to see a calculation done on how much clubs give to the FAI during the year to what they get out of it:

So that'd be fines, entry fee, split of the cup games gates that go to them etc.

John O'Sullivan wrote an article for the 42 last year about this subject and got hassle from the FAI's legal team. Backed everything he said up with figures too. I'll try dig it out later.

Paz-CCFC

topmanamillion wrote: »

There's a few factual inaccuracies in this.
The league Prize money was increased because Bwin started paying to stream LOI. They were already showing Irish league games for a few years. They would have approached the FAI.
I don't see how either the FAI or the PCA can take credit for that.

The FAI also reduced the affiliation Fees and contributed to a small increase in league prize money. It was a minuscule increase/decrease. Also when articles start appearing showing the FAI are making a gross profit on the league change was inevitable.

From what I heard, the PCA were involved in negotiations which led to the increase. I believe clubs also agreed to let the Bwin money be used towards the prize money instead of each taking €10k each, as it was meant to be originally. That's €120k out of the €160k. So, the FAI put in the €40k. Or, rather, they took €40k less out of the league than they previously did. I don't think it was "inevitable", to be honest. I think they would have been happy to hold onto that money, it's not like they've have much shame when it comes to the league.

I forgot that they had decreased the affiliation fees. From €19k to €17k for Premier Division clubs and from €11k (I think) to €8k for First Division sides. The minimum prize money in either division is your money back.

dan1895 wrote: »

John O'Sullivan wrote an article for the 42 last year about this subject and got hassle from the FAI's legal team. Backed everything he said up with figures too. I'll try dig it out later.

Are you thinking about this article he wrote for the website he had before he was writing for the42.ie? In the 2014 season, PD clubs paid €252k for a prize fund of €241k. The prize fund has been increased to €371k, but you'd think with sponsorship and UEFA grants (the latter, as I recall, adds up to about €1M) for the league that the FAI are still making a healthy profit.


On the topic of the grants, it seems Dundalk, Cork City and Shamrock Rovers have all said that they'd be accepting the sum. Given that most clubs probably aren't in much of a position to reject it, it looks like Derry and Pats are out on their own with turning it down. I don't necessarily disagree with their stance - Pats, in particular, gave two very hard hitting, but thoroughly professional statements. But all clubs really should have agreed on a collective stance. We're much better all sticking together on matters like this, regardless of what road we choose to go down.

Also, there was a suggestion by the Cork City chairman and, apparently, Fran Gavin on the radio today (different stations) that €5k was merely the first installment, not the max amount that will be paid over five years.

Sue Pa Key Pa

Darkglasses wrote: »

We'll take it too. We're not broke but 5k is good money.

Of course we will, but we shouldn't. Terrible that the league is in such a bad state that clubs will compromise principles for the cost of the lecky bill

pablomakaveli

I'm pretty sure that the 5 grand is paid over a few years and not in a lump sum. The offer is derisory and I'm not happy that we havent rejected it too.

We shouldnt be letting Delaney dangle carrots like Glanmire in exchange for keeping our mouths shut. If they pull the plug on that it'll be a stick to beat him with. We're not the only ones who would be using those facilities and it would turn a lot of people against the FAI. Fair play to Pats and Derry for telling the FAI where to go with their 5 grand.

dan1895

Paz-CCFC wrote: »

From what I heard, the PCA were involved in negotiations which led to the increase. I believe clubs also agreed to let the Bwin money be used towards the prize money instead of each taking €10k each, as it was meant to be originally. That's €120k out of the €160k. So, the FAI put in the €40k. Or, rather, they took €40k less out of the league than they previously did. I don't think it was "inevitable", to be honest. I think they would have been happy to hold onto that money, it's not like they've have much shame when it comes to the league.

I forgot that they had decreased the affiliation fees. From €19k to €17k for Premier Division clubs and from €11k (I think) to €8k for First Division sides. The minimum prize money in either division is your money back.



Are you thinking about this article he wrote for the website he had before he was writing for the42.ie? In the 2014 season, PD clubs paid €252k for a prize fund of €241k. The prize fund has been increased to €371k, but you'd think with sponsorship and UEFA grants (the latter, as I recall, adds up to about €1M) for the league that the FAI are still making a healthy profit.


On the topic of the grants, it seems Dundalk, Cork City and Shamrock Rovers have all said that they'd be accepting the sum. Given that most clubs probably aren't in much of a position to reject it, it looks like Derry and Pats are out on their own with turning it down. I don't necessarily disagree with their stance - Pats, in particular, gave two very hard hitting, but thoroughly professional statements. But all clubs really should have agreed on a collective stance. We're much better all sticking together on matters like this, regardless of what road we choose to go down.

Also, there was a suggestion by the Cork City chairman and, apparently, Fran Gavin on the radio today (different stations) that €5k was merely the first installment, not the max amount that will be paid over five years.

That's the article good man. No wonder i couldn't find it.

johnnyryan89

pablomakaveli wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that the 5 grand is paid over a few years and not in a lump sum. The offer is derisory and I'm not happy that we havent rejected it too.

We shouldnt be letting Delaney dangle carrots like Glanmire in exchange for keeping our mouths shut. If they pull the plug on that it'll be a stick to beat him with. We're not the only ones who would be using those facilities and it would turn a lot of people against the FAI. Fair play to Pats and Derry for telling the FAI where to go with their 5 grand.

Apart from Cork and clubs in Cork who else would be using Glanmire? Also the building of Glanmire is probably the FAI getting a club like Cork to back them up when situations arise like this. The facilities they are looking to build are already located in the University of Limerick which has better facilities actually then what they are looking to build in Glanmire so if the FAI were only interested in a Centre of Excellence then they could have easily used UL but a place like Glanmire benefits Cork City and keeps them sweet with the FAI. The same way you probably see Wexford Youths going along with Cork after what the FAI did for them and the same with Bohs.

Zebra3

Why do people think the FAI are behind the redevelopment of Dalyer which is now owned by DCC and will be paid for in full by them?

SantryRed

Zebra3 wrote: »

Why do people think the FAI are behind the redevelopment of Dalyer which is now owned by DCC and will be paid for in full by them?

I thought the FAI were funding it with the 'legacy' money they'll receive for hosting some of the Euro 2020 games?

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Darkglasses

Athlone's social media and website have disassociated themselves from the club. Solid #GreatLeagueintheWorld material

dfx-

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/dundalks-bonus-territory-brings-welcome-boost-34944573.html

each of dundalk's squad gets 40,000 each. A squad of around 20 players means that's €800,000 or so gone already?

Zebra3

SantryRed wrote: »

I thought the FAI were funding it with the 'legacy' money they'll receive for hosting some of the Euro 2020 games?

See how good Delaney is at fooling people?

Dalyer is all DCC's.

Delaney throws a few comments to the media and suddenly he gets associated with good news.

He's like a real Irish politician the way he operates.

The_Kew_Tour

Hopefully he gets the Olympic job very soon.

Problem is more crawlers are behind him

joeysoap

CSF wrote: »

I'd hazard a guess at the 2 figures bring similar enough.

From Dundalk's 2014 season

It was recently revealed that while Dundalk won €100,000 for landing their first Premier Division title in 19 years last year, they only received €66,000 of this from the FAI, who deducted the club’s annual registration fee and fines from it.

A fair indicator on how much the FAI take out of the league.

johnnyryan89

Zebra3 wrote: »

See how good Delaney is at fooling people?

Dalyer is all DCC's.

Delaney throws a few comments to the media and suddenly he gets associated with good news.

He's like a real Irish politician the way he operates.

What's the story with Tolka Park? Didn't DCC want to get the lease back from Shels and possibly have both teams ground share once Dalymount was redeveloped.

johnnyryan89

dfx- wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/dundalks-bonus-territory-brings-welcome-boost-34944573.html

each of dundalk's squad gets 40,000 each. A squad of around 20 players means that's €800,000 or so gone already?

Not bad for a nights work, 40,000 would be a year's wages.

joeysoap

dfx- wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/dundalks-bonus-territory-brings-welcome-boost-34944573.html

each of dundalk's squad gets 40,000 each. A squad of around 20 players means that's €800,000 or so gone already?

Agreed it looks like a lot of money 'gone already' but I imagine that if they didn't win players wouldn't have gotten such a bonus. Dundalk win, players get decent bonus, Dundalk move up in prizemoney from €1.25m to guaranteed €5.4m , and if they were by some chance to remain in the CL why wouldn't they increase the bonus significantly?

A lot of commentators were saying that Dundalk got nothing for Towell and that is true but his 25 league goals probably won the league and his cup goal definitely won the cup, so Richie contributed to the initial €550k for qualifying for the CL in the first place.

I hope Dundalk now sign new 2 year contracts, that way = no more freebies from English preditors

Zebra3

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

What's the story with Tolka Park? Didn't DCC want to get the lease back from Shels and possibly have both teams ground share once Dalymount was redeveloped.

My understanding is DCC want the lease back, but it's taking longer than expected due to the mess Ollie left behind.

DCC expect Bohs to be in Tolka during the redevelopment of Dalyer, and then both clubs move there when it's ready.

blingrhino

dfx- wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/dundalks-bonus-territory-brings-welcome-boost-34944573.html

each of dundalk's squad gets 40,000 each. A squad of around 20 players means that's €800,000 or so gone already?

The story going round Dundalk is they got paid for the closed season which would probably be an extra 16 weeks but i cant imagine that would equate to €800000 ?

SantryRed

Zebra3 wrote: »

My understanding is DCC want the lease back, but it's taking longer than expected due to the mess Ollie left behind.

DCC expect Bohs to be in Tolka during the redevelopment of Dalyer, and then both clubs move there when it's ready.

We might as well wind our club up if this ever happens. The club would be dead within 10 years. We badly need our own community to get into, either Ringsend or on the outskirts of Dublin, ala Swords.

Bateman

I don't see what the realistic options are for Shels though, beyond what is described above.

Going cap in hand to DCC wasn't anyone's preference in D7, but you do it when it has to be done...

topmanamillion

SantryRed wrote: »

We might as well wind our club up if this ever happens. The club would be dead within 10 years. We badly need our own community to get into, either Ringsend or on the outskirts of Dublin, ala Swords.

This seems bang on from my point of view (Outsider looking in).
There'd be zero potential for Shels to grow a fan base playing out of Dallymount.
Tolka obviously isn't sustainable longterm either.
As you correctly say out to Ringsend or Swords are the only options.
Is irishtown stadium an option?

dan1895

topmanamillion wrote: »

This seems bang on from my point of view (Outsider looking in).
There'd be zero potential for Shels to grow a fan base playing out of Dallymount.
Tolka obviously isn't sustainable longterm either.
As you correctly say out to Ringsend or Swords are the only options.
Is irishtown stadium an option?

No interest from the locals down there. Very few people down that way give a f*ck about Shels anymore. We've been out of the area for far too long.

The_Kew_Tour

What are Shels crowds like these days? I'm guessing still poor

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

CSF

You'd be talking between 350 and 500 which is abysmal based on what was there in our previous spells in the First Division. The fact that most Shels fans have grievances with the way the club is run, combined with the fact that we've been left with little to play for early on in the last 2 seasons has seen the crowds drop so low.

I think what's left now is the hardcore who'd go see Shels play in the Leinster Senior League, so that's probably what you'd be looking at taking to Dalymount with you. Not a good present, means that probably wouldn't be such a good future in Dalymount and it would take a lot to turn the club's fortunes around.

The_Kew_Tour

While I always enjoyed beating Shels, don't like hearing that either. LOI needs Shels.

topmanamillion

dan1895 wrote: »

No interest from the locals down there. Very few people down that way give a f*ck about Shels anymore. We've been out of the area for far too long.

In fairness where does give a **** about them?
Wherever Shels end up they'll have to try and build a fan base.

pablomakaveli

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

While I always enjoyed beating Shels, don't like hearing that either. LOI needs Shels.

I disagree. I remember a lot of Shels fans gloating on here and elsewhere when we were up in the high court. I remember them refering to us as FORAS when doing interviews up at Tolka when we were in the First Division. They've been pretty spiteful to other clubs too.

Good riddance I say.

The_Kew_Tour

pablomakaveli wrote: »

I disagree. I remember a lot of Shels fans gloating on here and elsewhere when we were up in the high court. I remember them refering to us as FORAS when doing interviews up at Tolka when we were in the First Division. They've been pretty spiteful to other clubs too.

Good riddance I say.

You look back and we were well able give it back too. (Me included).

Them not being in LOI does league no favours.

pablomakaveli

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

You look back and we were well able give it back too. (Me included).

Them not being in LOI does league no favours.

Well it does. They struggle to get numbers to games, in a city that already has 3 Premier Division clubs, one of whom they'll be groundsharing soon. They're past the point of being relevant or useful to the LOI. I'd happily swap out Shels if we could have kept Monaghan, Kildare or Kilkenny. Teams in areas that could do with a team.

dan1895

pablomakaveli wrote: »

I disagree. I remember a lot of Shels fans gloating on here and elsewhere when we were up in the high court. I remember them refering to us as FORAS when doing interviews up at Tolka when we were in the First Division. They've been pretty spiteful to other clubs too.

Good riddance I say.

Whats a lot? 3? 4?

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

SantryRed

pablomakaveli wrote: »

I disagree. I remember a lot of Shels fans gloating on here and elsewhere when we were up in the high court. I remember them refering to us as FORAS when doing interviews up at Tolka when we were in the First Division. They've been pretty spiteful to other clubs too.

Good riddance I say.

Can you really blame Shels fans for being spiteful towards clubs who can just get their debts removed and think they're the exact same club, whilst we have to go through the crap we are due to not being able to do the exact same thing?

Like I'm completely ambivalent to Shels these days and I go and enjoy it and hope they win, but it's much more a social thing these days and I can't be bothered with away games outside of Dublin.

But if things were flipped the other way, you cannot say that there'd be no spitefulness to have Cork and Rovers have gotten off scott free in comparison to us?

kksaints

Maybe a move to Swords or Lusk might work for Shels because ground sharing with Bohs certainly wont.

Zebra3

pablomakaveli wrote: »

I disagree. I remember a lot of Shels fans gloating on here and elsewhere when we were up in the high court. I remember them refering to us as FORAS when doing interviews up at Tolka when we were in the First Division. They've been pretty spiteful to other clubs too.

Good riddance I say.

Please do accept my humblest apologies on behalf of everyone at Tolka for what you lot decided to call your new club in 2010.

SantryRed

kksaints wrote: »

Maybe a move to Swords or Lusk might work for Shels because ground sharing with Bohs certainly wont.

For me, it's the only thing that is going to work. Get involved with Fingal County Council and discuss what plans they had for Sporting Fingal and see if there's any way we can take up any discussions that occurred. I don't even know if we're entitled to any money from the sale of Tolka though, a lot of it will go towards the debts of 2005 and before.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

I agree with the posters saying that Dublin can only really sustain 3 Premier League clubs, add in UCD who could get promoted and it probably is at saturation point. Would much prefer a regional team in the league like Limerick to have as big a spread of teams geographically as possible.

Cork City are the only team from Munster currently playing top flight football in the country and that doesn't feel balanced enough to me. Especially considering Munster has about the same amount of people as Dublin.

The_Kew_Tour

In a City that has around 1.4 million to say 5 clubs is not sustainable is bit OTT.

They're room for Shels, just pity way it's gone for them.

I doubt their hardcore are going support another LOI team just like that

pablomakaveli

Zebra3 wrote: »

Please do accept my humblest apologies on behalf of everyone at Tolka

Are all 5 of you in the same room right now then?

Paz-CCFC

SantryRed wrote: »

Can you really blame Shels fans for being spiteful towards clubs who can just get their debts removed and think they're the exact same club, whilst we have to go through the crap we are due to not being able to do the exact same thing?

Like I'm completely ambivalent to Shels these days and I go and enjoy it and hope they win, but it's much more a social thing these days and I can't be bothered with away games outside of Dublin.

But if things were flipped the other way, you cannot say that there'd be no spitefulness to have Cork and Rovers have gotten off scott free in comparison to us?

You mean Shels never did the same thing? Because a list of dissolved companies on the CRO would suggest that they did, back when the league and company law were much more forgiving to phoenix clubs. That gets highlighted a lot less, just because the internet wasn't around when they were going bust/getting kicked out of the league and being refounded.

And if I recall correctly, the thing that's stopping ye from winding up and starting again now is that ye'd lose the lease on Tolka. Which, correct me if I'm wrong, was the same thing ye were able to use as security to borrow all that enabled ye to dominate in the league in the early 00s and nearly get in the Champions League.

Zebra3 wrote: »

Please do accept my humblest apologies on behalf of everyone at Tolka for what you lot decided to call your new club in 2010.

Much like the new club at Tolka formed in 2007.

SantryRed

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

In a City that has around 1.4 million to say 5 clubs is not sustainable is bit OTT.

They're room for Shels, just pity way it's gone for them.

I doubt their hardcore are going support another LOI team just like that

UCD are never gonna get a hardcore following, I feel it's as simple as that.

However, the best way for me that the league has potential in expanding is:

Rovers = Tallaght
Bohs = North inner city
Pats = South inner city
Shels = Swords

It's the best shot it's got to be honest. This is all so hypothetical though. We're all as doomed as each other :pac:

topmanamillion

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

In a City that has around 1.4 million to say 5 clubs is not sustainable is bit OTT.

They're room for Shels, just pity way it's gone for them.

I doubt their hardcore are going support another LOI team just like that

Spot on.
I believe 4/5 clubs in Dublin is more than sustainable but just not in their current make up.
If you look around every league in Europe there's usually a high percentage of clubs from the capital city area.

As for what the correct make up is, Shels need to find an area where they can grow and build the club.
Swords, Fingal, Ringsend etc should all be on the table.
Currently the plan from the FAI/The council seems to be we're sorting out Bohs so we'll bring you along.
There needs to be a bit more thought put into where Shels go next.

As for UCD & Cabinteely, a merger seems sensible there. UCD have the facilities & Cabinteely have the club structures.
Possibly get another large junior club or two on board and let them really tap into Dunlaoighre/Rathdowne which is one of the largest urban areas in the country.

Pats probably need to move out of Inchicore too as their fan base seems to be stuck at 1200.
There's also a large loan leveraged on the ground,
Somewhere like Swords may be an option.

Of course some of that would take some serious investment, but to say 4 or 5 clubs aren't sustainable in Dublin is a bit mad. We're talking about an area with a quarter of the countries population.

Corholio

Paz-CCFC wrote: »

You mean Shels never did the same thing? Because a list of dissolved companies on the CRO would suggest that they did, back when the league and company law were much more forgiving to phoenix clubs. That gets highlighted a lot less, just because the internet wasn't around when they were going bust/getting kicked out of the league and being refounded.

And if I recall correctly, the thing that's stopping ye from winding up and starting again now is that ye'd lose the lease on Tolka. Which, correct me if I'm wrong, was the same thing ye were able to use as security to borrow all that enabled ye to dominate in the league in the early 00s and nearly get in the Champions League.



Much like the new club at Tolka formed in 2007.

Ah lads ffs

Paz-CCFC

Corholio wrote: »

Ah lads ffs

It's been years since there's been a City v Shels bitch-fest on Boards. Sometimes ya just gotta do it for the nostalgia.

SantryRed

Paz-CCFC wrote: »

It's been years since there's been a City v Shels bitch-fest on Boards. Sometimes ya just gotta do it for the nostalgia.

Not gonna lie. This is probably the most passionate I've felt for Shels in about 3 years :pac: Get relegated again lads, the First Division is fun I swear.

Darkglasses

SantryRed wrote: »

Not gonna lie. This is probably the most passionate I've felt for Shels in about 3 years :pac: Get relegated again lads, the First Division is fun I swear.

I do miss it sometimes

joeysoap

I don't. Exactly 10 years this year We came 2nd (behind Rovers), won the playoff against Waterford and were then told you'r now behind the 3rd placed team, so having come 3rd Galway were promoted, without a playoff. And Waterford were let stay up too. You couldn't make it up.

I think shels could start again in Swords too. Swords has a massive young population and if shels tapped into the schools in the area they would in time build up a community spirit. The club if they did it right could become a focal point in Swords.

howiya

What are Shels doing in their current area? Other than a different audience what would change if they relocated?

topmanamillion

howiya wrote: »

What are Shels doing in their current area? Other than a different audience what would change if they relocated?

They wouldn't be 10 mins from Dallymount and would have their own patch to operate out of.
Of course you're correct that Shels will have to work to build a fan base but that just won't happen in their current area.
A few years ago, they were 90 minutes away from the CL and winning all around them and they were struggling to get 1,200 people in for league games. In fairness, Pats also have similar problems due mostly to poor location.

There are massive population bases in Ringsend, Fingal, Swords that Shels could tap into.