Pedestrian killed

dodzy

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Okay then, if you have such a grown up view of the world tell me, in what circumstances is speeding not speeding? In what very grown up situation is going over the speed limit not going over the speed limit?

The relevance of the difference in injuries sustained makes no sense to me? If you're hit by a car that's speeding you've been hit by a car that's speeding. Are you saying if you were hit by a car going 60 kph you wouldn't really mind because it was only 10 kph over the speed limit? Hit you at 30 over the speed limit though and you'd be really annoyed!

Of course speeding is speeding but ......

Speeding on the Hartstown road carries a far greater risk than speeding on the N3, particularly for pedestrians. To deny this is ridiculous. And the road in question may not be in a housing estate per se, but it splits multiple estates along the entire stretch, with a massive pedestrian element. Unlike the N3 for example.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

dodzy wrote: »

Of course speeding is speeding but ......

Speeding on the Hartstown road carries a far greater risk than speeding on the N3, particularly for pedestrians. To deny this is ridiculous. And the road in question may not be in a housing estate per se, but it splits multiple estates along the entire stretch, with a massive pedestrian element. Unlike the N3 for example.

I never said that it wasn't dangerous to speed on that specific road, or roads like it. The idea that it's fine to speed on "better" roads is ridiculous though. There is never not an accident being cleared somewhere on the M50, for example. You cause an accident on the N3 or M1 or any road like it and you've no idea how much damage you're going to do or how many other drivers are going to end up involved.

Speed limits exist for a reason and should be followed for a reason, regardless of what kind of road they're on.

Be annoyed that there's no speed vans on the Hartstown Road, they're obviously required there, but to be annoyed that there's none there but there's one on a road where it's apparently okay to speed is a ridiculous attitude to have. If you're speeding on the N3 or wherever chances are you speed on other roads too. If you get pinged a few times doing 110 when you should be doing 100 maybe you'll cop on and not risk speeding elsewhere.

I would say the vast majority of people go over the speed limit. I've lost track of how many times I've been on a motorway/duel-carriageway doing the speed limit and had someone fly past me and then immediately cut back in because they're getting off at the next exit, or even just people who cut back in way too soon after flying past you. Why are you passing people who are doing the speed limit? And if you insist on doing it stay the f**k out of my lane until you're well past me. It's as dangerous doing it at 110/120 as it is doing it at 90.

Blump

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Okay then, if you have such a grown up view of the world tell me, in what circumstances is speeding not speeding? In what very grown up situation is going over the speed limit not going over the speed limit?

The relevance of the difference in injuries sustained makes no sense to me? If you're hit by a car that's speeding you've been hit by a car that's speeding. Are you saying if you were hit by a car going 60 kph you wouldn't really mind because it was only 10 kph over the speed limit? Hit you at 30 over the speed limit though and you'd be really annoyed!

Whether a pedestrian is hit at 60km/h compared to 90km/h is more a concern for the undertaker than the doctor.

The margin at which the limit is broken may not affect the ultimate outcome (dead/not dead) but it does greatly increase the chances of a collision occurring.

I can't post images as I'm a new user but just google image search "impact of vehicle speeds on pedestrian fatalities"

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Blump wrote: »

Whether a pedestrian is hit at 60km/h compared to 90km/h is more a concern for the undertaker than the doctor.

The margin at which the limit is broken may not affect the ultimate outcome (dead/not dead) but it does greatly increase the chances of a collision occurring.

I can't post images as I'm a new user but just google image search "impact of vehicle speeds on pedestrian fatalities"

I'm aware that different speeds cause different levels of damage. That's not the point though is it? And if it was the point then surely that makes it even worse to be speeding at 110 kph than it does to be speeding at 90 kph.

I'm not even trying to argue that it's worse to be speeding at 110 on a road with 100 limit. My point is speeding is speeding and if you're going to moan about the Gardai not doing enough in one particular spot it's highly hypocritical to then argue that it's okay, or less serious, to speed somewhere else.

chucknorris

Thanks to the survey that was ran at Hartstown/Huntstown, a speed van has now appeared last night at Hartstown community school. Hopefully one of many measures to slow that road down.

daymobrew

Blump wrote: »

Whether a pedestrian is hit at 60km/h compared to 90km/h is more a concern for the undertaker than the doctor.

The World Health Organisation says that both are likely to be for the undertaker (90% chance of death when hit at 60km/h, 100% chance of death above 75km/h).

95% will survive when hit by a car going 30km/h, 50% will survive when hit by a car going 50km/h.

digiman

The frustrating thing is that a lot of speed limits are just not correct. There are plenty of examples in rural Ireland where the speed limit is 100kmph and the road is not fit for 50kmph. Other examples of built up areas where the speed limit is 50kmph and around 30kmph would be much more appropriate.

Similar on some dual carriageways, the N11 in Dublin is 60kmph when it could easily be 80 or 100kmph.

On our national motorways there should be no speed limit in safe driving conditions. Having speed cameras on motorways and national roads is mainly a revenue generating method.

Our fines for speeding should also be much higher. Someone driving 90kmph in a 50kmph zone should be fine much more than someone doing 130kmph on the motorway.

ciaran76

Just jogged through Hartstown there and the Garda are measuring the roads with lasers etc. From the corner at Topaz down as far as the turn for Oakview.
Not sure what it's for but maybe someone here knows?

Gavin "shels"

ciaran76 wrote: »

Just jogged through Hartstown there and the Garda are measuring the roads with lasers etc. From the corner at Topaz down as far as the turn for Oakview.
Not sure what it's for but maybe someone here knows?

You'd imagine maybe a speed camera or possible plans for ramps.

dodzy

chucknorris wrote: »

Thanks to the survey that was ran at Hartstown/Huntstown, a speed van has now appeared last night at Hartstown community school. Hopefully one of many measures to slow that road down.

looks like it was a 'Chesney Hawkes' effort unfortunately.

billie1b

ciaran76 wrote: »

Just jogged through Hartstown there and the Garda are measuring the roads with lasers etc. From the corner at Topaz down as far as the turn for Oakview.
Not sure what it's for but maybe someone here knows?

Its supposedly part of the investigation for what happened, the driver of the car and his friends are saying that they weren't speeding and that the 2 ladies walked out in front of them causing the accident.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

billie1b wrote: »

Its supposedly part of the investigation for what happened, the driver of the car and his friends are saying that they weren't speeding and that the 2 ladies walked out in front of them causing the accident.

I thought they were hit on the footpath. That's what was said at the time anyway.

billie1b

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I thought they were hit on the footpath. That's what was said at the time anyway.

Yeah thats what I thought too but there is a story/rumour going around (im trying my best to not be insensitive as I dont know the truth either and I know the ladies were someones Mother, Wife, sister etc..) that they were struck on the road, with the impact and due to jamming on the brakes the car mounted the verge and dragged them along. Its a terrible situation for the family as the driver is really contesting the case. Thats why the lady in questions remains were not released for burial as the were performing toxicology tests as evidence for the driver

ejabrod

billie1b wrote: »

Its supposedly part of the investigation for what happened, the driver of the car and his friends are saying that they weren't speeding and that the 2 ladies walked out in front of them causing the accident.

Driver should have been in enough control of the car to avoid/stop.

Judging by the tyre marks and on the grass verge, it would appear that the driver was traveling at speed.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Does anyone know what happened to the other lady? Never heard anymore about her other than she was taken to hospital.

fletch

ejabrod wrote: »

Driver should have been in enough control of the car to avoid/stop.

If somebody was walking along the kerb and just as you were driving by stepped out on to the road, you can guarantee that you would always miss them?

billie1b

2 weeks ago was the last I heard about her, she was still in a critical condition in Intensive Care with crushed legs and other serious injuries. I'll ask my friend today and let you know

ejabrod

fletch wrote: »

If somebody was walking along the kerb and just as you were driving by stepped out on to the road, you can guarantee that you would always miss them?

If I was adhering to the speed limit (on that road), I would not have driven them across the road, into the oncoming lane, up on the kerb and uproot a tree stump in the process.

fletch

ejabrod wrote: »

If I was adhering to the speed limit (on that road), I would not have driven them across the road, into the oncoming lane, up on the kerb and uproot a tree stump in the process.

Fair dues to you although I think it's unfair to judge until the outcome of the investigation is known.

ejabrod

fletch wrote: »

Fair dues to you although I think it's unfair to judge until the outcome of the investigation is known.

Not judging.

If the two padestrians stepped off the kerb 'as I (or any other driver adhering to the speed limit (50k)) was passing', it would not result in crossing two lanes, mounting the kerb and plowing into a tree stump (and uprooting same).

The reality of the stretch of road in question is that it is used regularly by idiots without driving talent trying to be big men. (I live on that stretch of road and see/hear it regularly)

For the record - I drive a high powered car and have done for over 15 years - there is a time and place for driving at speed - it is called Mondello on a track day.

dodzy

fletch wrote: »

Fair dues to you although I think it's unfair to judge until the outcome of the investigation is known.

Honda civic. young lads. 3am. 2 lanes crossed and tree uprooted. Unfair you say ? Get real. Of course they were flying.

ongarboy

Just on an earlier post where someone suggested ramps to slow down traffic on this route,it was mentioned that it was not practical as it is heavily trafficked bus route also. I was just driving from Castleknock to Clonsilla today via Carpenterstown and noticed the main arterial route through the area that all the housing estates feed off of (possibly called Diswelltown road??) had ramps and is a bus route. Its not too unlike the main route through Hartstown/Huntstown/Blakestown and I noticed the ramps really controlled speed. Maybe it's something worth considering if speeding is a regular problem.

Larbre34

They're bus friendly ramps alright. Also car friendly. Waste of money. The electronic speed warning signs are the best thing along there.

Seanie_H

ongarboy wrote: »

Just on an earlier post where someone suggested ramps to slow down traffic on this route,it was mentioned that it was not practical as it is heavily trafficked bus route also. I was just driving from Castleknock to Clonsilla today via Carpenterstown and noticed the main arterial route through the area that all the housing estates feed off of (possibly called Diswelltown road??) had ramps and is a bus route. Its not too unlike the main route through Hartstown/Huntstown/Blakestown and I noticed the ramps really controlled speed. Maybe it's something worth considering if speeding is a regular problem.

I live off the Diswellstown Road. Those ramps are decent on the smaller cars but the large saloons and jeeps just fly past unhindered.

I'm actually reasonably new to the area and I'd say the general standard of driving is pretty aggressive, particularly on the roundabouts. The bus lanes are mostly used for undertaking! Only yesterday I saw an Audi - must've been close to 70kph, high revs, down the bus lane on Carpenterstown Rd right outside a creche 5pm. Outrageous stuff.

Anyways, my point I suppose is that Dublin 15 probably needs an area wide traffic management plan, the whole works... Ramps, chicanes, cameras. The Huntstown accident was a tragedy and probably is the most pressing road but more needs to be done. I'd say it's a cultural thing too. People need to accept that the inconveniences are necessary because of lack of care from others.

daymobrew

Seanie_H wrote: »

Anyways, my point I suppose is that Dublin 15 probably needs an area wide traffic management plan, the whole works... Ramps, chicanes, cameras.

Or aggressive enforcement by the Gardai. I've reported red light running, texting while driving (even one where a guy nearly crashed into a parked car), children without seat belts and Blanchardstown Gardai have done ..... nothing. They rarely even call you back :rolleyes:

Ramps punish the majority that obey the law and add extra wear to vehicles (and bicycles). That is unfair.

fletch

Just got an email from Leo Varadkar

Traffic Management - €250k

Pedestrian Crossings:
· On Old Navan Road at Blakestown Road, Mulhuddart - €50,000
· Ladyswell Road, Mulhuddart - €45,000

Traffic Calming Measures and Ramp Installation and repairs:
· Hartstown Distributor Road - Eurospar to School Traffic Calming Measures - €40,000
· Phibblestown Road Ramps Installation - €25,000
· Waterville Distributor Road Traffic Calming Measures - €25,000
· Sycamore Avenue, Carpenterstown Ramps Installation - €16,000
· Ramor Park, Blanchardstown -Ramp repair - €4,000
· Castlecurragh Distributor Road 1 ramp installation only - €4,000

Traffic Safety:
· Ongar roundabout /Allendale Anti-skid installation - €12,000
· Huntstown/Hartstown Ring Road – 4 Solar Flashing Signs - €8,000
· Porterstown Church and Playing Fields – 2 Solar Flashing Signs - €6,000

January

fletch wrote: »

Just got an email from Leo Varadkar

He's a bit behind... this info was published on david mcGuinness facebook and Paul donnolly asked people to email him if they wanted the info a few days after the election.

ejabrod

fletch wrote: »

Just got an email from Leo Varadkar

These are outrageous figures. No wonder the public finances are in shambles