Debra Wicklow Mountains Challenge Half Marathon 2016

annapr

I can't find a thread for this on here so thought I might as well start one. Signed up for it in a recent moment of irrational exuberance. It certainly looks like a challenge!

I found an old thread from a couple of years ago that has some good advice on the course and training from the A/Rtist formerly known as T Runner.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=88496737

Any current advice on the course? Anybody signed up?

ThisRegard

I'd love to do it, and it's a great cause, but the minimum amount to fund raise means I won't be. All well and good if you're in a large office or have plenty of colleagues, but if there's only a small amount of you or you work alone it's not so easy.

It's not just this race, but a few are like this. I think that if the entry amount was reduced they may actually get more entrants and raise more due to people paying the full amount out of their own pocket, I've done it anyway for other charity events. Anyway, probably a more general rants than solely related to this event.

denis160

ThisRegard wrote: »

I'd love to do it, and it's a great cause, but the minimum amount to fund raise means I won't be. All well and good if you're in a large office or have plenty of colleagues, but if there's only a small amount of you or you work alone it's not so easy.

It's not just this race, but a few are like this. I think that if the entry amount was reduced they may actually get more entrants and raise more due to people paying the full amount out of their own pocket, I've done it anyway for other charity events. Anyway, probably a more general rants than solely related to this event.

Was signing up for it too until I seen the cost. I can appreciate it's for a good cause but knowing ild be paying the full cost myself, I had to rethink it, still sitting on the fence about entry!

fletch

I signed up...missed out on it last year so really looking forward to it this year.

tHE vAGGABOND

Signed up, good cause and I know someone who did it last year and said it was a good course - will make tag on a few miles and make it onto a long run with Conn in mind

Enduro

denis160 wrote: »

Was signing up for it too until I seen the cost. I can appreciate it's for a good cause but knowing ild be paying the full cost myself, I had to rethink it, still sitting on the fence about entry!

The Wicklow Way Trail is on not too afterwards and is a similar enough race. Being IMRA, entry fees are kept to a minimum.

nop98

I have signed up too. Really looking forward, and off to get some trail runners.

demfad

annapr wrote: »

I can't find a thread for this on here so thought I might as well start one. Signed up for it in a recent moment of irrational exuberance. It certainly looks like a challenge!

I found an old thread from a couple of years ago that has some good advice on the course and training from the A/Rtist formerly known as T Runner.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=88496737

Any current advice on the course? Anybody signed up?

I'm signed up again.

Its a great race and when it's done and dusted you'll have a great base of strenght in the legs for the Spring/summer running.

There are three main climbs. The second climb is the longest, the third is not as long but steeper. I usually do training for it that would benefit road running too.

The first thing to say is everyone runs the first climb too fast. Pacing is crucial in these races and people lose huge chunks of time over this error. The way I look at it is if I can acquit myself well in the last climb then I've paced it well. For me that means going at a very controlled steady intensity up the first climb, always with the rest of the race in mind. Thats the most important piece of advise I could give relating to that course.

These hill races require strenght, so training with this in mind is key. That means in general, controlling the sessions so more pressure comes on the legs. These less intense sessions will allow a slightly bigger volume of work which again helps the legs.

You can easily tweak an existing running plan to suit this race. (happy to make suggestions) If a runner was training 100% especially for it, Id think the below sessions would be best

Long run: First phase Id start by being able to run the predicted race time easy on flat or lightly undulating ground. Now add hills, initially add a decent one (up/down) to the end of the run and work back (add a hill per long run till 3 big hills). Evolve the long run the whole way through the training.

Hill Reps: For leg strenght. Controlled reps of 1-2 mins (slightly less recovery). Start these at LT effort. 15% incline if using treadmill. These are for strenghtening the legs and getting used to climbing endurance, NOT for inducing a heart explosion.

LT runs: Controlled start at 20 mins continous. add 5 mins per week. break these up if it improves quality. eg 15' then 3' rest then 5' etc.


Another important run is the steady run. This is at a pace slower than a normal tempo run start at 40 mins and build up to 90 or more again on flat then undulating ground. This run is more specific than the Lt run because the pace of this run will be close to the pace and intensity of flat/downhill sections of race itself. Alternates with LT and then replaces it.
Like the long run eventually fire in some hills. The hill reps from earlier would do (drop thats ession at this stage) . Youre practising running while being tired form hill work so stick it in at the middle this time. say 30 mins steady 5 hill reps then 30 mins steady. I'd do them outdoors if possible. If there is time then add more hill reps to further resemble the race. Alternate the LT/Hill reps/steady run to keep them maintained.

Best thing to take from it is that the long hilly run and steady run is key. Other sessions are there to make you do these runs better. If your tweaking your training start with those.

Also, Even if its paced well 99% of the field will walk some (a lot) of the second climb, and some of the early steep part of the third. Ideally, Id recommend practising hill walking once during a long run. Then having a race trial that will involve 3 hills and hill walking. Walking takes about 25% of the average race time (at least). Practising it will be worth several minutes.

We can fire the course up here and look at it in detail again. Any questions on anything there, fire away.

annapr

Thanks Demfad, that's a really helpful post. How important do you think it is to train on the right terrain too? I'm thinking training on trails/hills to get used to what might be underfoot.

demfad

annapr wrote: »

Thanks Demfad, that's a really helpful post. How important do you think it is to train on the right terrain too? I'm thinking training on trails/hills to get used to what might be underfoot.

You don't have to do every long run on terrain but some is advisable. The climb and descent for the first and last hill is on fire road, which is untarred forest road, good enough quality. The middle climb is on grass, with some road near the top (at the Wicklow gap). A long road climb would do the job for most long runs e.g Howth (if Dublin based). You can get some terrain in there too. Initially at least (unless you are already conditioned to long climbs) Id do the uphills on tarmac. Just to get the legs used to running up for long periods.

The place I use for the specific long runs for this race is a triangle just above Marley Park. The triangle goes from Taylors Pub under the M50 flyover up to Ticknock wood and 3 Rock mountain. Then just before the masts you take a right down a long descent on fireroad all the way to Kilmashoge carpark, Down and under the other flyover and back along the road to Taylors.
The climb and descent from Ticknock up to the masts can be done on road intitally and then off road. Ill post up a map of that loop.

A nicer run probably involves Massey woods, Cruagh and Hellfire. Steep climbs there to practice the mountain-walking. Ill try and suss out a course there, I know Peterx did some serious secret training in there over the years. I think a boards group may have had a trail run there last year?
If theres enough folk up for a training run for this race or even to have another boards training run in that area id be on for it.

So to cut a very long story short. Terrain training is beneficial but the important ones should be done after you are strong enough to include a few big road climbs in a longish run. The technical aspect of the Debra race would be easily covered by those few training runs. Second descent of the race is a bit technical in parts but that's all

Peterx

Turlough's triangle is within this run (km 3 to 11)
https://www.strava.com/activities/23036325

The Masseys Cruagh Tibradden loop is within this run(km 1 to 18)
https://www.strava.com/activities/39740532

The back Carpark in Marley Park is a good place to park for both these runs. Or Taylors if you are running late and the park is closed.

demfad

Peterx wrote: »

Turlough's triangle is within this run (km 3 to 11)
https://www.strava.com/activities/23036325

The Masseys Cruagh Tibradden loop is within this run(km 1 to 18)
https://www.strava.com/activities/39740532

The back Carpark in Marley Park is a good place to park for both these runs. Or Taylors if you are running late and the park is closed.

Fantastic Peter, thanks very much.

Peterx

demfad wrote: »

Fantastic Peter, thanks very much.

https://www.strava.com/activities/443287924
This is Turlough's triangle run starting and finishing in Taylors.

demfad

Here is some figures on the race course:

Up/Down|dist km|grad ave|grad. max|% of distance|Walk/run/both
1st Climb|1.9|3.6%|7%|9%|run
1st Down|2.6|-6.7%|-|12%
2nd Climb|5|4%|9%|23%|both-mostly run
2nd Down|7.1|-4.7%|15%|33%
3rd Climb|1.4|10.7%|13%|7%|both-mostly walk
Undulating|1.8|0%|2%|8%
3rd Down|2|3.6%|7%|-5.6%


Note:

54% of the course is downhill. When doing hilly runs make sure to run slightly faster than easy on the downhill. The strenght you get running up is enough for the downs, but on fast ground (most of the downs) you need to practice running faster as you will on race day. Running faster will force better technique and will reduce and toughen the legs up to the jarring of running downhill.

The first climb and descent is all good fireroad.
Second climb is on grass and can be boggy. There are steep bits which will most likley require you to walk. Walk early. Don't run till your legs burn out on the steep bits. Look at its gradient: If your going to be walking the majority of a steep bit, maybe walk all of it.

Most technical downhill section is just after the Carpark at 10k (top of Wicklow gap). It can be wet and slippy there. After that it is dry and better, some stone steps to get you down into Glendasan valley and then its good trail/fireroad all the way.
Last climb is a walking job in all liklihood. Toughish undulating section, keep working. Then 2km descent to finish.

aoboa

I signed up for the 10k (currently on the waiting list for the half).
Is it all runnable? Or are there some sections that are best walked up?

demfad

aoboa wrote: »

I signed up for the 10k (currently on the waiting list for the half).
Is it all runnable? Or are there some sections that are best walked up?

The short section climbing up the Wicklow way from the visitor section in the second half of the race is steep and most will walk it (its the first part of the 3rd climb in the table above). My rule would be if you realise you are going to have to start walking sooner or later on the climb it might not be a bad idea to do it sooner.

aoboa

Did the 10k route yesterday.
Pretty sure we got the route right. Garmin seems to match the map on the site.
Tough enough.
One really brutal descent through the forest besfore you rejoin the road to Glendalough and then a really brutal climb up over loads of styles from the village up to rejoin the Wickow way.
Lots of the start and end are on decent paths or trails.
Great fun altogether but I'll be walking a chunk of that last big climb for sure

FeenaM

I had really wanted to do this so if anybody has signed up for the half and won't be doing it, maybe get in touch and I'll buy your number (tut tut)...

Dubgal72

FeenaM wrote: »

I had really wanted to do this so if anybody has signed up for the half and won't be doing it, maybe get in touch and I'll buy your number (tut tut)...

So this is where you are! Was wondering how you are getting on All good?

FeenaM

Dubgal72 wrote: »

So this is where you are! Was wondering how you are getting on All good?

All going well! Have just been keeping myself ticking over during the winter and looking forward to get back into a nice training plan

How are you keeping?

Dubgal72

FeenaM wrote: »

All going well! Have just been keeping myself ticking over during the winter and looking forward to get back into a nice training plan

How are you keeping?

Ah great. What's the focus going to be? You know it would be much easier to discuss this over your training log...;) hint hint

All good thanks. Just busy persuading the body to stick together and run, the usual!

jfk247

Has anyone been out around the area, along St Kevins way lately????

I'd imagine the ground is going to be very soft especially on the part behind the forest just after the water stop.....

aoboa

jfk247 wrote: »

Has anyone been out around the area, along St Kevins way lately????

I'd imagine the ground is going to be very soft especially on the part behind the forest just after the water stop.....

We've got about 4 days of dry weather forecast so fingers crossed it'll dry up a little.

demfad

jfk247 wrote: »

Has anyone been out around the area, along St Kevins way lately????

I'd imagine the ground is going to be very soft especially on the part behind the forest just after the water stop.....

It should be OK. That part is always a little tricky so care is needed. The descent just after the water area at the Wicklow gap is hazardous when wet.
The 4 dry days should also dry the ground out a little for the big climb up to the water stop which is energy sapping at the best of times.

nop98

Hi all - allow me to ask a dumb question. Any advice on what to wear / bring - assuming it's going to be a reasonable day, and dry?

I have tried to do a bit of online recce, reading reports and pictures, and I see all sorts, varying from singlets to full winter-gear... and the organizers suggest bring a wind-jacket. I have little experience with races in this type of environment, so any advice would be appreciate.

I had simply planned on a long-sleeved top over a t-shirt, and shorts - and I'll bring a hat and gloves.

demfad

nop98 wrote: »

Hi all - allow me to ask a dumb question. Any advice on what to wear / bring - assuming it's going to be a reasonable day, and dry?

I have tried to do a bit of online recce, reading reports and pictures, and I see all sorts, varying from singlets to full winter-gear... and the organizers suggest bring a wind-jacket. I have little experience with races in this type of environment, so any advice would be appreciate.

I had simply planned on a long-sleeved top over a t-shirt, and shorts - and I'll bring a hat and gloves.

I think the jacket is essential. After the bus drops you off there is a long enough period before race starts with a couple of speeches etc. You'll need the jacket here too as it will be chilly. Ill be most likely wearing a short sleeved cycling top and a pair of running shorts with the jacket tied around my waist.

What you suggest sounds fine, but the jacket is mandatory (and needed before the start). See can you tie it around your waist easlily or use a bumbag.

fletch

Yes jacket is mandatory
https://debraireland.org/debraevent/event-wicklow-mountains-challenge/faqs/ and for good reason as some people discovered a few weeks ago at Brockagh Burst...check out the pics here

jfk247

In previous years, I've not had a jacket with me on the route or at the start. Long Sleeve running top and running shorts.
I have brought jackets with me in the car just in case the weather changes though so I can bring it with me if needed.

DubOnHoliday

Another opportunity to show my photo from Brockagh of what can happen in 40 minutes....

demfad

Definately obligatory (potential disqualification for not carrying one) for this year, and last year also as I remember. Even if the weather doesn't change, If you get injured and have to stay put you will get very cold and potentially hypothermic without a jacket. If you don't have a jacket with you and you get injured it means taking a jacket from someone else.

Just tie a light wind jacket around your waist. It wont slow you down.

tHE vAGGABOND

Looking forward to this.

Been doing a bit, but only around 25 miles a week. Gonna do Conn Marathon, but for a laugh and to keep an eye on weight tbh and not for a time or anything like that. These hills will stand to me

The letter with race number suggests we car pool as space is at a premium up there [& 800 folks due to take part]. I was just going to bus or train to Rathdrum and taxi, but thought to ask here? I live in Clontarf, but can make it around the city if someone was driving and needed company [& coffee purchaser / petrol contributor !]