Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi *spoilers from Post 2857*

Drumpot

Totally off topic, but do Sith not come back as force ghosts?

And when Luke said “strike me down in anger and I will be with you forever” (or something to that effect) couldn’t Obi Wan come back and torture Vadar?

I keep picturing Obi Wan tormenting Vader when he’s trying to sleep, singing “I am Henry the 8th I am” with Vadar squeezing a pillow over his head ! Would be hilarious but as an extended story in the universe would not be tonally accepted!

expectationlost

where did rey learn her stick fighting?

Reg'stoy

Sweet mother of god but it was absolute torture sitting through this movie. It was like watching that lidl ad on loop where they do up the old man's house. Every schmatzie cliche was dragged out, kicked to death before been revived and recycled.
Disney has covered nearly every demographic in this movie and I fully expect them to have Hillary Clinton make a cameo appearance in place of Carrie Fisher.

So many things annoyed me, from "are you holding" to the sewage worker Finn knowing where a tracker would be located on the destroyer and for me the worst of all; 30 transport ships been uncloaked with 2 destroyed in seconds only for the empire's gunners to become really, really, really bad shots for the next 5 mins.
Why the f**k did Rose stop Finn destroying the battering ram cannon and come out with some nonsense about dying and love, when people would surely be killed when the shield wall was breached because she allowed it to be breached.

Why was every empire attack played out like a Bond villain taking the time to explain something while giving the rebels a chance to 'get away'.

Finally saw Thor in the last few days and I really enjoyed that because it was what it wanted to be, funny when it wanted to be funny, exciting when it was meant to be.

It used to be movies became theme park rides, now theme park rides and toys dictate what will be a movie.

Shakey_jake

The hate this movie is getting is insane!


People making crazy statements like the "prequels are better" Are smoking crack??


I loved it, once people's massive expectations subside i think they'll realise this is a really awesome movie up there with the best.

Disposable1

Nooooooooooooo, just ****ing no

Saruhashi

Reg'stoy wrote: »

Sweet mother of god but it was absolute torture sitting through this movie. It was like watching that lidl ad on loop where they do up the old man's house. Every schmatzie cliche was dragged out, kicked to death before been revived and recycled.
Disney has covered nearly every demographic in this movie and I fully expect them to have Hillary Clinton make a cameo appearance in place of Carrie Fisher.

So many things annoyed me, from "are you holding" to the sewage worker Finn knowing where a tracker would be located on the destroyer and for me the worst of all; 30 transport ships been uncloaked with 2 destroyed in seconds only for the empire's gunners to become really, really, really bad shots for the next 5 mins.
Why the f**k did Rose stop Finn destroying the battering ram cannon and come out with some nonsense about dying and love, when people would surely be killed when the shield wall was breached because she allowed it to be breached.

Why was every empire attack played out like a Bond villain taking the time to explain something while giving the rebels a chance to 'get away'.

Finally saw Thor in the last few days and I really enjoyed that because it was what it wanted to be, funny when it wanted to be funny, exciting when it was meant to be.

It used to be movies became theme park rides, now theme park rides and toys dictate what will be a movie.

Excuse me sir, but I think you'll find this movie has a 93% rating on Rotten Tomatoes and 86 rating on Metacritic and an A+ rank on Cinemascore!

Also why are you, a person with an opinion on Star Wars, posting such a negative opinion online? Don't you know this is just a dumb movie for kids centered around lazer swords?

Now excuse me, I have to go and watch the movie for the 7th time this week. I hear that you only REALLY appreciate the film on the 7th or 8th viewing.

Goddamn Russian spies talking trash about my Star Wars!

Gbear

Drumpot wrote: »

Totally off topic, but do Sith not come back as force ghosts?

And when Luke said “strike me down in anger and I will be with you forever” (or something to that effect) couldn’t Obi Wan come back and torture Vadar?

I keep picturing Obi Wan tormenting Vader when he’s trying to sleep, singing “I am Henry the 8th I am” with Vadar squeezing a pillow over his head ! Would be hilarious but as an extended story in the universe would not be tonally accepted!

They covered the force ghosts thing in Revenge of the Sith a little bit and also in the Clone Wars cartoon series.

Essentially, Qui Gon Jinn discovered some way to become a force ghost, got in touch with Yoda, post-mortem, who referenced it at the end of Revenge of the Sith.

That, of course doesn't explain Anakin.

In the EU there've been other bad guy force ghosts of various types.

Suffice it to say that they haven't given a particularly coherent answer to the mechanics of it, and they probably won't, so don't worry about it.


I don't think "See you around, kid" was a throwaway line and I'd imagine that won't be the last we'll see of Luke.
I think we'll see him in scenes with Kylo Ren and Rey in the next film.

Osmosis Jones

Saruhashi wrote: »

Excuse me sir, but I think you'll find this movie has a 93% rating on Rotten Tomatoes and 86 rating on Metacritic and an A+ rank on Cinemascore!

Also why are you, a person with an opinion on Star Wars, posting such a negative opinion online? Don't you know this is just a dumb movie for kids centered around lazer swords?

Now excuse me, I have to go and watch the movie for the 7th time this week. I hear that you only REALLY appreciate the film on the 7th or 8th viewing.

Goddamn Russian spies talking trash about my Star Wars!

Is there really any need to be this passive aggressive?

Disposable1

Saruhashi wrote: »

Excuse me sir, but I think you'll find this movie has a 93% rating on Rotten Tomatoes and 86 rating on Metacritic and an A+ rank on Cinemascore!

Also why are you, a person with an opinion on Star Wars, posting such a negative opinion online? Don't you know this is just a dumb movie for kids centered around lazer swords?

Now excuse me, I have to go and watch the movie for the 7th time this week. I hear that you only REALLY appreciate the film on the 7th or 8th viewing.

Goddamn Russian spies talking trash about my Star Wars!

93% is the critic score, the audience score is 56%. Critics are prone to bias early on with some big releases like this, I bet a lot of those same reviewers will give a worse score when the home video release.

Saruhashi

Shakey_jake wrote: »

The hate this movie is getting is insane!


People making crazy statements like the "prequels are better" Are smoking crack??


I loved it, once people's massive expectations subside i think they'll realise this is a really awesome movie up there with the best.

PhiloCypher

expectationlost wrote: »

why was kylo ren so troubled was it just because his parents sent im away to train to be a jedi?

if he hadn't been sent away would he have been ok or would he have had trouble dealing with the strong force inside him?

which might be soved by (sending him away to get ) training?

vicious circle.

if the galaxy needs balance but nature keeps churning out force filled good guys which begets bad guys and vice versa how do you ever avoid huge division in the galaxy?

will the third film answer that?

I'd imagine the Skywalker legacy weighed heavily on him . His grandfather brought down the Old Republic, wiped out the Jedi and ushered in the Empire, and his Uncle took down a deathstar , defeated Vader and ushered in the rebirth of the Republic. That's a lot to live down/up to, maybe being Vader grandson weighed on him, the question of nature or nurture, is it in the Skywalker nature to be predisposed to the darkside or was it circumstances .

Unlike Palpatine Snoke likely never met Kylo until after the Academy massacre and was likely just influencing him through his dreams, driving a wedge between him and Luke. Pushing the narrative already in a confused teenage Kylo/Bens head that he's just like his grandad, the dark side is in his blood and that he should give in to it .

Saruhashi

Disposable1 wrote: »

93% is the critic score, the audience score is 56%. Critics are prone to bias early on with some big releases like this, I bet a lot of those same reviewers will give a worse score when the home video release.

Sorry man, I was just messing around.

I actually thought it was a pretty bad movie too. At least I didn't think it was good.

Osmosis Jones

Disposable1 wrote: »

93% is the critic score, the audience score is 56%. Critics are prone to bias early on with some big releases like this, I bet a lot of those same reviewers will give a worse score when the home video release.

Don't care much for review scores as I know how I feel about a movie regardless, but I'd definitely argue that fans are way more biased in their reviews than professional critics.

Tony EH

Drumpot wrote: »

Totally off topic, but do Sith not come back as force ghosts?

And when Luke said “strike me down in anger and I will be with you forever” (or something to that effect) couldn’t Obi Wan come back and torture Vadar?

I keep picturing Obi Wan tormenting Vader when he’s trying to sleep, singing “I am Henry the 8th I am” with Vadar squeezing a pillow over his head ! Would be hilarious but as an extended story in the universe would not be tonally accepted!

The poor fella was already tormented by Jar Jar. One annoying Force ghost is enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdS2kCUGvfo

Disposable1

The Rey parents thing doesn't make any sense. She doesn't actually get any answers. Rey never thought her parents were "special"...we did. That was an audience expectation. The answer she receives still leaves her parents faceless. Her dad was some gambler or something, dead now. That's not an identity reveal from her point of view.

A plot point built up, comes to nothing.

Snoke, built up, comes to nothing.

We were and are robbed of Luke. Why bother having him in the film at all? He's just there long enough to poop all over his legacy. And that's exactly my problem with this film, it poops all over all the other movies especially The Force Awakens.

I'm glad other people enjoyed it, I just wanted to vent a little

py2006

Disposable1 wrote: »

it poops all over all the other movies especially The Force Awakens.

I'm glad other people enjoyed it, I just wanted to vent a little

A tad extreme but kinda agree about pooping on the end of TFA...kinda

pumpkin4life

Oh hai Mark!

Osmosis Jones

Disposable1 wrote: »

The Rey parents thing doesn't make any sense. She doesn't actually get any answers. Rey never thought her parents were "special"...we did. That was an audience expectation. The answer she receives still leaves her parents faceless. Her dad was some gambler or something, dead now. That's not an identity reveal from her point of view.

A plot point built up, comes to nothing.

Snoke, built up, comes to nothing.

We were and are robbed of Luke. Why bother having him in the film at all? He's just there long enough to poop all over his legacy. And that's exactly my problem with this film, it poops all over all the other movies especially The Force Awakens.

I'm glad other people enjoyed it, I just wanted to vent a little

The movie subverts expectations, everybody was complaining about how predictable it was all going to be after TFA and all the theories ended up being wrong.

SteM

Saruhashi wrote: »

I actually thought it was a pretty bad movie too. At least I didn't think it was good.

Jeez, we'd never have guessed. You've only said it a couple of dozen times on this thread and talked down to others who disagree while you're at it.

expectationlost

PhiloCypher wrote: »

I'd imagine the Skywalker legacy weighed heavily on him . His grandfather brought down the Old Republic, wiped out the Jedi and ushered in the Empire, and his Uncle took down a deathstar , defeated Vader and ushered in the rebirth of the Republic. That's a lot to live down/up to, maybe being Vader grandson weighed on him, the question of nature or nurture, is it in the Skywalker nature to be predisposed to the darkside or was it circumstances .

Unlike Palpatine Snoke likely never met Kylo until after the Academy massacre and was likely just influencing him through his dreams, driving a wedge between him and Luke. Pushing the narrative already in a confused teenage Kylo/Bens head that he's just like his grandad, the dark side is in his blood and that he should give in to it .

why does it matter that he is Vaders grandson he mever met him.

Saruhashi

SteM wrote: »

Jeez, we'd never have guessed. You've only said it a couple of dozen times on this thread and talked down to others who disagree while you're at it.

Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong.

Disposable1

py2006 wrote: »

A tad extreme but kinda agree about pooping on the end of TFA...kinda

Perhaps, this could be true. This is a knee jerk reaction. Again, I'm just venting.

PhiloCypher

expectationlost wrote: »

why does it matter that he is Vaders grandson he mever met him.

Its almost like you've never watched TFA. Kylo quite clearly cares a great deal about his lineage or he wouldn't have spent so much time talking to his gramps helmet/mask. To use an analogy it would be like how one might feel the weight of the sacrifice a grandparent who you never met made in WW2 or in this case of Kylo the analogy is finding out your Grandad was Heinrich Himmler.

Disposable1

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

The movie subverts expectations, everybody was complaining about how predictable it was all going to be after TFA and all the theories ended up being wrong.

It certainly subverted my expectations because I expected it to be good. Just teasing. Look, the fan theories are nothing to do with the filmmakers. That's something that we did to ourselves, we formulated these ideas and they aren't, nor is servicing them the responsibility of the filmmakers.
My issue is that the Force Awakens laid the foundations of a story that was meant to continue, while also incorporating characters from the original trilogy and this film completely disregarded/threw out all of that. Rey's parents, a big fat nothing. Snoke, a big fat nothing. We know nothing about Snoke. We'll never get to see Luke actually do anything now. I feel the way Luke was unceremoniously "killed off" was disrespectful to the original films, the character, the actor and the fans. That being said, I liked what they did with Luke in this film, but after all that, we finally get him back and he turns into a fart and drifts away on the wind. Why bring the original characters back at all if you're going to turn them in to spooks of what they were and kill them off straight away, Leia seems to be an exception but of course Carrie Fisher died too.

I think it's pretty clear that this saga is about Kylo and Rey. But it ought not be an either or situation between them and Luke/Leia/Han. The originals could have co-existed and had their awesome hero moments while passing the torch so to speak. Instead they're just passing. Honestly I feel robbed

Sad Professor

JJ and his fcuking mystery box is to blame for all this. Fans spent 2 years theorising about stuff that had pretty straight-forward answers but which JJ had turned into big mysteries to disguise his characteristic bad plotting and now everyone blames Johnson for playing the hand he was dealt.

Rey's parentage - JJ knew the answer to this question and even shot it. Maz: "Who are you?" Rey: "I'm no one". Sound familiar? It's from the second TFA trailer but was cut from the film. Ridley was mystified in early interviews when people kept asking her who Rey's parents were. She thought it was explained in the film, apparently not realising initially that JJ had cut out the scene in question, probably after he saw everyone theorising that she was a Skywalker.

Why is Luke on the island? - JJ explained this in interviews: Luke is on the island because JJ didn't know what else to do with him. In early drafts of TFA, Luke entered the story early on but he was too powerful, causing problems for the development of the new characters. JJ didn't want to make Luke weak, so what did he do? He passed the buck to the next guy yet insisted on including a final scene of Luke looking like a badass. However, by sticking Luke on that island while his former pupil was on the rampage and his friends were being murdered, Abrams put Johnson into a corner. The only satisfactory explanation for why Luke would sit out the events of TFA is because he was spiritually broken and disconnected from the Force.

Who is Snoke? - again, this was obvious: Snoke is re-hash of the Emperor. Johnson had two choices: play it out or kill him off, subverting everyone's expectations and allowing Kylo (a far more interesting character) to become what Vader wanted to be: the ruler of the galaxy.

The Knights of Ren - a totally unnecessary element that JJ stuck in there because he thought it was cool. Fittingly enough he now has to deal with it.

By turning all JJ's mystery box nonsense on its head, Johnson improved TFA. He also got most of the backstory that JJ was too lazy to deal with in TFA out of the way, freeing up episode 9. which JJ will hopefully be able to get through without introducing a bunch of other "mysteries" into the equation.

johnny_ultimate

The way Johnson disregards, twists or blatantly makes fun of many of the bad characters and narrative dead ends from TFA may be among my favourite things about this.

pixelburp

I have full, unblemished faith that Abrams will find a way to jam in some more open-ended mysteries into the Episode IX script.

On the flipside, I suppose there's the presumption that the next film will cap off the "main" arc, thus constricting any narrative eyebrow wiggling from its director; I'm guessing Disney will then shoot off into other corners of the galaxy, and other time periods, leaving the Sklywalker saga finished. Maybe Abrams will be under orders to simply round everyones respective arcs off.

JohnFalstaff

Sad Professor wrote: »

JJ and his fcuking mystery box is to blame for all this....JJ didn't want to make Luke weak, so what did he do? He passed the buck to the next guy yet insisted on including a final scene of Luke looking like a badass. However, by sticking Luke on that island while his former pupil was on the rampage and his friends were being murdered, Abrams put Johnson into a corner.

Thinking of JJ Abrams and his previous work involving mysterious islands, I think you've indentified one of main problems with how this trilogy is being handled.

Sad Professor

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

The way Johnson disregards, twists or blatantly makes fun of many of the bad characters and narrative dead ends from TFA may be among my favourite things about this.

He handles it brilliantly. And I think people will grow to appreciate this. But maybe it will take another round of JJ and his mystery box for them to realise it.

Lost is an interesting comparison. As with TFA, JJ created a bunch of mysteries he had no intention of answering then pissed off leaving others to deal with them. But where as Lindelof and Cuse foolishly believed they could answer those mysteries until the 11th hour, Johnson metaphorically and literally throws them off a cliff in the first 10 minutes of the film.

I like JJ in spite of his faults. Probably because of my Lost obsession, though, I knew not to take any of the mysteries in TFA too seriously.

Anita Blow

I enjoyed the film myself and would rate it a solid 8/10. The "worst film ever/ruined star wars" comments are hyperbole but I understand a good deal of the criticism. I did raise my eyebrows at the Leia scene and in a movie about a magical force and space battles it did still strain my suspension of disbelief.

The humour in places was quite inappropriate as it took the tension completely out of some scenes where it was necessary and it made characters like Hux mere caricatures. I thought Force Awakens struck a nice balance of humour and tension.

I didn't see the casino storyline as that bad, in fact I hadn't even thought about it until I read some of the criticisms online and it popped up frequently. At the very least it served to develop Finn's character but maybe it would've been more justified had Finn been allowed to die in the end and cement his transition from a coward to someone willing to sacrifice his life for the resistance.

Overall I don't think Johnson murdered the series but I don't think he did fantastic either