Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi *spoilers from Post 2857*

Saruhashi

Disposable1 wrote: »

It certainly subverted my expectations because I expected it to be good. Just teasing. Look, the fan theories are nothing to do with the filmmakers. That's something that we did to ourselves, we formulated these ideas and they aren't, nor is servicing them the responsibility of the filmmakers.
My issue is that the Force Awakens laid the foundations of a story that was meant to continue, while also incorporating characters from the original trilogy and this film completely disregarded/threw out all of that. Rey's parents, a big fat nothing. Snoke, a big fat nothing. We know nothing about Snoke. We'll never get to see Luke actually do anything now. I feel the way Luke was unceremoniously "killed off" was disrespectful to the original films, the character, the actor and the fans. That being said, I liked what they did with Luke in this film, but after all that, we finally get him back and he turns into a fart and drifts away on the wind. Why bring the original characters back at all if you're going to turn them in to spooks of what they were and kill them off straight away, Leia seems to be an exception but of course Carrie Fisher died too.

I think it's pretty clear that this saga is about Kylo and Rey. But it ought not be an either or situation between them and Luke/Leia/Han. The originals could have co-existed and had their awesome hero moments while passing the torch so to speak. Instead they're just passing. Honestly I feel robbed

I think as time goes on people will come to the conclusion that having the original cast in these movies was a bit of a mistake.

They painted themselves into a corner from the very beginning by having Kylo kill Han. It makes it almost impossible to portray him as anything other than evil.

With Rey the fan reaction was so positive that it would feel kind of like a betrayal to turn the strong female character, with 100s of articles about how inspirational she is to women and girls, into a Dark Side villain. The backlash if they went there would be something to behold.

I don't think the endings for Han or Luke were satisfying but really how could they be? I think Leia will also be a very difficult passing to deal with for the writers. Then you've got Chewie and R2 and 3PO kind of hanging around all out of place.

I'd rather not see anyone come back as a force ghost and just let the last 2 to 3 hours of this trilogy belong to Rey, Finn, Poe and Rose. Let Abrams do his thing and they beat Kylo Ren and Hux and everyone lives happily ever after.

Beyond that someone needs to go through the old Star Wars books and pick out stuff that takes place before the prequels and do something based on the best ideas.

After 2019 we are left with, what? I have no faith in ideas like an Obi-Wan movie or a Yoda movie because generally speaking these kinds of spin-off films don't work very well.

Maybe it's right that TLJ exposes the Star Wars fandom as kind of angry and entitled nerds and maybe Star Wars does need to move beyond that fandom somehow. I don't know.

You'd end up asking what really makes a "Star Wars" movie because without the force and the lightsabers and the familiar worlds there isn't much there besides the prestige of the label "Star Wars".

The Extended Universe stuff back in the day had some good things, a few great moments and a big load of rubbish.

We're sitting at 9 movies now and by the time Episode 9 credits roll we'll have 11 Star Wars movies to look back on. Maybe 3 or 4 of them good ones?

Actually, can you really be a "fan" of something when you think that 3 out of 9 are hot garbage (the prequels) 3 out of 9 are amazing (ANH, ESB and I will give people TLJ for the sake of argument) and 3 that are just "OK"?

For me the biggest take away from the last 3 years has been that I have become increasingly less hopeful for the future of Star Wars.

I can say I'm a fan of the originals but outside of that? Not so much.

I do think the new ones have been kind of disrespectful to the originals but in 10 years from now the originals will be a very very small part in a probably 20 movie series.

I just hope they don't try to do anything crazy with the Lord of the Ri- http://www.telegraph.co.uk/on-demand/2017/12/18/ian-mckellen-would-love-play-gandalf-amazons-lord-rings-tv-series/

Sad Professor

pixelburp wrote: »

I have full, unblemished faith that Abrams will find a way to jam in some more open-ended mysteries into the Episode IX script.

On the flipside, I suppose there's the presumption that the next film will cap off the "main" arc, thus constricting any narrative eyebrow wiggling from its director; I'm guessing Disney will then shoot off into other corners of the galaxy, and other time periods, leaving the Sklywalker saga finished. Maybe Abrams will be under orders to simply round everyones respective arcs off.

I'm hopeful. In fairness to him, his Star Trek films were generally free of mystery box stuff, but he didn't write them and he is co-writing episode 9.

Osmosis Jones

JJ knows he has to end the trilogy, I'm sure he's been somewhat instructed to not introduce more loose ends

johnny_ultimate

Sad Professor wrote: »

I like JJ in spite of his faults. Probably because of my Lost obsession, though, I knew not to take any of the mysteries in TFA too seriously.

Yeah, I really like TFA still (still think the final half hour in particular is thrillingly realised), but the things I like about it aren't the mysteries.

I mean, Snoke was a CG big bad right out of a Marvel film in TFA. Seeing him disregarded as the bull****, distracting character he is was immensely satisfying.

Hux was lame and snivelling, but in an uninteresting way. Johnson dials those traits up to 11, which I was more than pleased with: if you have to keep him, have some fun with it.

And Rey's parentage... there's no possible 'twist' or reveal that could deliver the goods in a series that has the mother of 'paternity reveals'. That Johnson understands that but also manages to weave the inevitable anti-climax into the film's broader narrative tapestry is a pretty graceful trick as far as I'm concerned.

Gbear

Sad Professor wrote: »

JJ and his fcuking mystery box is to blame for all this. Fans spent 2 years theorising about stuff that had pretty straight-forward answers but which JJ had turned into big mysteries to disguise his characteristic bad plotting and now everyone blames Johnson for playing the hand he was dealt.

[...]

By turning all JJ's mystery box nonsense on its head, Johnson improved TFA. He also got most of the backstory that JJ was too lazy to deal with in TFA out of the way, freeing up episode 9. which JJ will hopefully be able to get through without introducing a bunch of other "mysteries" into the equation.

It's not just the mystery box. It's also the plot and worldbuilding.
The approach they've taken is that they've basically endloaded all the actual story into the last film in the trilogy.

TFA felt like a series of fun action scenes with quirky dialogue and good characters, but it didn't actually do much for those characters and it's world building was pants.

Johnson inherited things more or less as they were in TFA.
Destroying the New Republic had no impact. We didn't lose anything concrete so he may as well have blown up a bunch of random deserted planets with Starkiller base for all the difference it made.
The loss of Han was huge, but not in the world-building sense. It didn't chance the state of the galaxy. It was character-focused rather than plot-focused.

The OT didn't have that problem - from the first scene the state of the galaxy is made abundantly clear, then you see the destruction of a planet but it's so clearly tied to Leia that it has an impact. Finally, that thread is followed to a direct threat against the Rebellion on Yavin.
Then, they're free to mostly explore the characters in Empire even if from perspective of the overall plot of the Rebels vs the Empire, they're spinning their wheels a bit.

This had more in common with the prequels, where they **** around in the first film, the 2nd film has to kick off the plot, and then we get "there were clone wars by the way", between Episodes 2 and 3, when that or it's aftermath should've been the backdrop of entire trilogy.

The upshot of this is that Johnson basically had to kill everyone again in this film, so that we could get to a stage where we actually felt the desperation rather than just being told that there was desperation and get the universe to the point where we can stage a fight back from.

It also means we'll probably have to have a similar thing to the prequels where there's a x year gap and we see "there was a rebellion", because they won't have time for running around and building one, which is probably what should've been the backdrop to this film.

Of course, something I hadn't considered given the nature of the previous trilogies, is that this doesn't actually need to be a trilogy. We've seen the scale of the MCU, the willingness to churn out massive franchises of films from Harry Potter to endless The Fast and the Furious guff, so there's no particular reason why they can't have more than three films (six is an option, if they want to stick with the trilogy convention).

If this is film 2 of 6, rather than 2 of 3, the issues around the slow start will be far less pronounced.

Given where Rey and Kylo Ren are, those characters certainly have room to grow over that length of time. Even if that was the plan, I'm yet to be convinced it'd work in most other respects however - keeping the cast on board for that length of time and maintaining quality, pacing and having the scale of plot to fill such a saga would all be massive stumbling blocks.

I'd still watch the **** out of all of them, and they'd make like 10 billion dollars.

pixelburp

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Yeah, I really like TFA still (still think the final half hour in particular is thrillingly realised), but the things I like about it aren't the mysteries.

I mean, Snoke was a CG big bad right out of a Marvel film in TFA. Seeing him disregarded as the bull****, distracting character he is was immensely satisfying.

Hux was lame and snivelling, but in an uninteresting way. Johnson dials those traits up to 11, which I was more than pleased with: if you have to keep him, have some fun with it.

And Rey's parentage... there's no possible 'twist' or reveal that could deliver the goods in a series that has the mother of paternity reveals. That Johnson understands that but also manages to weave the inevitable anti-climax into the film's broader narrative tapestry is a hell of a graceful trick as far as I'm concerned.

Reys parentage was the best trick pulled in pulling out from under the weight of a trailing plotline; it neatly took the quasi-mystery, put it in front of the audience and boldly claimed "it doesn't matter, Rey is a self made person". Or at least that's how I took that entire scene in the Dark Side hole/dream/limbo. She demanded to know her parents, and the Force basically pointed out (by way of a mirror image) she was her own person and it didn't matter. She made herself, and it also nicely tied into the larger theme of lineage, and the weight of inheritance - both familial and mythological, culminating in Rens own spoken kick to the pants by snapping her out of her yearning for a parent figure.

I could be way off base mind you ....

Disposable1

Sad Professor wrote: »

JJ and his fcuking mystery box is to blame for all this. Fans spent 2 years theorising about stuff that had pretty straight-forward answers but which JJ had turned into big mysteries to disguise his characteristic bad plotting and now everyone blames Johnson for playing the hand he was dealt.

Rey's parentage - JJ knew the answer to this question and even shot it. Maz: "Who are you?" Rey: "I'm no one". Sound familiar? It's from the second TFA trailer but was cut from the film. Ridley was mystified in early interviews when people kept asking her who Rey's parents were. She thought it was explained in the film, apparently not realising initially that JJ had cut out the scene in question, probably after he saw everyone theorising that she was a Skywalker.

Why is Luke on the island? - JJ explained this in interviews: Luke is on the island because JJ didn't know what else to do with him. In early drafts of TFA, Luke entered the story early on but he was too powerful, causing problems for the development of the new characters. JJ didn't want to make Luke weak, so what did he do? He passed the buck to the next guy yet insisted on including a final scene of Luke looking like a badass. However, by sticking Luke on that island while his former pupil was on the rampage and his friends were being murdered, Abrams put Johnson into a corner. The only satisfactory explanation for why Luke would sit out the events of TFA is because he was spiritually broken and disconnected from the Force.

Who is Snoke? - again, this was obvious: Snoke is re-hash of the Emperor. Johnson had two choices: play it out or kill him off, subverting everyone's expectations and allowing Kylo (a far more interesting character) to become what Vader wanted to be: the ruler of the galaxy.

The Knights of Ren - a totally unnecessary element that JJ stuck in there because he thought it was cool. Fittingly enough he now has to deal with it.

By turning all JJ's mystery box nonsense on its head, Johnson improved TFA. He also got most of the backstory that JJ was too lazy to deal with in TFA out of the way, freeing up episode 9. which JJ will hopefully be able to get through without introducing a bunch of other "mysteries" into the equation.

Look, I agree with you to an extent, but you seem to be blaming JJ for doing his job. This is the function of a first film in a trilogy, to establish storylines and questions that are going to teased out and resolved in a satisfying way over the course of the three films. This film throws all that work out. If I was in JJ's position I think I would be extremely angry. It renders quite a lot of The Force Awakens redundant.

I think JJ did a great job with the first film. He gave us characters that are loved, which is exceptionally hard. He gave us a thrilling, action packed film that also served to lay the groundwork for a trilogy, which is also exceptionally hard.

expectationlost

PhiloCypher wrote: »

Its almost like you've never watched TFA. Kylo quite clearly cares a great deal about his lineage or he wouldn't have spent so much time talking to his gramps helmet/mask. To use an analogy it would be like how one might feel the weight of the sacrifice a grandparent who you never met made in WW2 or in this case of Kylo the analogy is finding out your Grandad was Heinrich Himmler.

we're obviously talking about what set him on the path long before TFA

if I found out my grandpa was a nazi, but that my parents generation rebeled against that, maybe I would think they it shows that what your parents do doesn't matter in regards to what you do.

Foxtrol

Just about to read through the thread but my impression was that it was far from what I expected and if I had my way I’d have less of the stupid humour, more background details (i.e. Snoke) and, a generally darker tone (more akin to Rouge One) but I overall loved it. That list of issues are a problem throughout all the other episodes, so I feel it would be hypocritical of me to slate this one because of them when the rest was so good.

The casino trip was another concern for me but by the end it felt justified, between the final kid scene and the additional impression you get of the impact on the universe outside of the rebellion which I don’t feel the originals really provide.

I enjoyed the nostalgia of TFA but I don't think it would have played well again. The pushed me outside of my comfort zone for the universe and after my first viewing I'm happy they did.

fryup

can't believe this has 93% on RT and 7.9/10 in imdb, Disney must be paying people to put up fake reviews

thought it was a big let down after FA and R1

the scene where

princess leia comes back to life was preposterously laughable yeah i know its sci-fi but come on..it was too long too disjointed and when heineken man appeared i just gave up...and as for the "crystal critters" jesus wept

don't know how they're going to salvage it for the 3rd installment, lets hope Johnson has nothing to do with it cause he was way out of his depth with this one

i give it a charitable....2/5 :cool:

Osmosis Jones

Yeah Disney must be paying critics to write good reviews, I mean, how else are they going to get people to go see A STAR WARS MOVIE?

Disposable1

Yeah but look the audience rating on rotten tomatoes is 56%. There's often inflated reviews when a film like this comes out first. That will go down with time

Osmosis Jones

Disposable1 wrote: »

Yeah but look the audience rating on rotten tomatoes is 56%. There's often inflated reviews when a film like this comes out first. That will go down with time

Yeah because review sites like RT are inherently flawed. If a movie is at, say 8/10, and someone thinks it's a 5/10, then they're likely to give it a 1/10 score just to bring the average down, and vice versa.

Disposable1

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Yeah because review sites like RT are inherently flawed. If a movie is at, say 8/10, and someone thinks it's a 5/10, then they're likely to give it a 1/10 score just to bring the average down, and vice versa.

Yeah, we can use statistics to prove anything, 67% of people know that.

.ak

Sad Professor wrote: »

JJ and his fcuking mystery box is to blame for all this. Fans spent 2 years theorising about stuff that had pretty straight-forward answers but which JJ had turned into big mysteries to disguise his characteristic bad plotting and now everyone blames Johnson for playing the hand he was dealt.

Rey's parentage - JJ knew the answer to this question and even shot it. Maz: "Who are you?" Rey: "I'm no one". Sound familiar? It's from the second TFA trailer but was cut from the film. Ridley was mystified in early interviews when people kept asking her who Rey's parents were. She thought it was explained in the film, apparently not realising initially that JJ had cut out the scene in question, probably after he saw everyone theorising that she was a Skywalker.

Why is Luke on the island? - JJ explained this in interviews: Luke is on the island because JJ didn't know what else to do with him. In early drafts of TFA, Luke entered the story early on but he was too powerful, causing problems for the development of the new characters. JJ didn't want to make Luke weak, so what did he do? He passed the buck to the next guy yet insisted on including a final scene of Luke looking like a badass. However, by sticking Luke on that island while his former pupil was on the rampage and his friends were being murdered, Abrams put Johnson into a corner. The only satisfactory explanation for why Luke would sit out the events of TFA is because he was spiritually broken and disconnected from the Force.

Who is Snoke? - again, this was obvious: Snoke is re-hash of the Emperor. Johnson had two choices: play it out or kill him off, subverting everyone's expectations and allowing Kylo (a far more interesting character) to become what Vader wanted to be: the ruler of the galaxy.

The Knights of Ren - a totally unnecessary element that JJ stuck in there because he thought it was cool. Fittingly enough he now has to deal with it.

By turning all JJ's mystery box nonsense on its head, Johnson improved TFA. He also got most of the backstory that JJ was too lazy to deal with in TFA out of the way, freeing up episode 9. which JJ will hopefully be able to get through without introducing a bunch of other "mysteries" into the equation.

Fair points... Always felt Snoke in particular would have no back story, just a force-adept bad dude that snook (get it?) into the void left by the Emperor's death and picked up the pieces. This is Star Wars, doesn't need to fancier than that.

Still reckon Rey has a legacy story. This is the Skywalker saga, and whilst Ben Skywalker if obviously taking up the torch I reckon the main character (Rey) still has to be a Skywalker. No way Luke kept it in the pants this whole time, Jedi or not...

In fairness I think having Luke on the Island is brilliant. Worked really well for me, I really believed the shame and angst of a man who totally ****ed over his sister and best friend and ruined their only child. It's a really complex story of pain and understanding that I feel is going to be under appreciated because of the many flaws of TLJ.

Would love a directors cut to cut out some of the Disney toy nonsense.

.ak

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

I enjoyed that. Could have had just a tiny bit less of the porgs. They didn't annoy me but just thought just one less scene would have been nice. Nice bit of humour (Compare with the Prequels.... Shudder). Exciting and nice leadup to the finale.

Liked

• Rose. Thought she was a great addition.
  
• Her medallion/was that a hark back to Rogue 1 about the Force as a religion?
• Space battle at the start. Fantastically exciting
• Red Guards
• The silent hyper jump. Was PURE silence in the cinema when that happened. Was fantastic use of (non) sound
• Jakku? Uh, yeah, ok that is pretty much nowhere
• "Holding for General Hux?"
  
• Domhnail Gleeson's hilariously OTT scenery chewing. Really funny (If only partially intentionally funny)
• I actually liked that Rey's parents WEREN'T anyone special. That they weren't connected to the main cast at all. Expanded the universe a bit
• YODA, BABY!!!!!! YODA!!!!!
• The Diamond Dogs. They looked great.
• The kid at the end force-grabbing the broom

Didn't like/Could have done without.

• Just a little bit too long. Not much but just a little.
• Del-Toro criminally underused
• BB-8 over-use. Seems he can do EVERYTHING from be a slot machine to AT-ST pilot
• Phasma. Why hype her up SO MUCH and get such a high-profile actor to play the part if she is going to be in it for such a short period each time and go out like a punk each time.
• Snoak: Facial animation spot on. Walking movements like Mars Attacks
• Kid with the broom: Loved him force grabbing the broom. Hated him displaying the Resistance Ring. Too on the nose

.... What's wrong with you?

.ak

Drumpot wrote: »

Tarkin was killed off in the first movie. Every other empire baddy was mocked and choked to death by Vader. I’d say there is a star destroyer full of skeletons floating somewhere, with empire soldiers killed by Vadar!

That aside Krennic was a more interesting character with more depth then cardboard sterotype Tarkin so let’s not pretend Tarkin was some genius. I am only speaking from the movies, so if Tarkin was expanded in the comics I am not familiar with it.

Plenty of slimey gits get to Hux’s Position, have you ever worked in a big company? Snoke even mentions Hux capacity to thrive under the right motivation when saying “and you wonder why I keep him in such a high position”. Hux has the rebels “dangling on string”. He has oversaw the rebels being forced to their knees so he can’t be that stupid!

Being a cartoonish character does not equate to being stupid or incompetent. He falls for the Poe trick , so what, even intelligent and brilliant people can be caught out at times. Why do people demand that all characters act in a rigid format? All baddies must act like x and wear y! The first order should be more like the empire! Luke shouldn’t act silly even after 2 decades in isolation! Disney are just milking this franchise (like that should matter when going to see this!!!). We need to care about Derns character! We need to know more about Snoke/Rey!People say they want change but when they explain their issues it more points to the wanting the same and their movie to follow a prescribed formula.

That aside I still think people need to accept that these movies are primarily targeted for children. Many of us have nostalgiac fondness for the originals whereby we forgive the very same kind of goofy ness or story/character choices because we want to.. You don’t have to like it, but it’s just a fact that many of us have grown up and the issue isn’t so much the movies (that aren’t perfect) it’s that people have outgrown Star Wars and they want/demand Star Wars to move on with them which they are not going to get. You can channel your inner child and try to enjoy these or be cynical and hyper critical which will leave you disappointed. It’s that simple .

I get the movies are for children thing. I just think they went far too 'Rebels' with Hux's character in this.

I don't get what you're getting at regards to Tarkin? In Rogue 1 and ANH he's clearly a very intelligent bad guy. Can Cushing play any other role really?

Hux seemed to be a bumbling idiot in this. It made no sense to me. We're not talking about a stupid CEO of a haircut tech company, we're talking about one of the largest militaries in the known galaxy.

At the end of the day thought Gleeson is a poor choice, way too hammy with the accent and over the top scowling just didn't sit right with me. Maybe it was the red hair... I can understand why they went that way tho, think it's important all the characters were young adults. Makes it more interesting for kids.

TerrorFirmer

Disposable1 wrote: »

Yeah but look the audience rating on rotten tomatoes is 56%. There's often inflated reviews when a film like this comes out first. That will go down with time

Christ, how often does this have to be said.

People making a huge deal of RT scores, while essentially sticking their fingers in their ears and screaming when faced with other metrics.

IMBD - 8/10

CinemaScore - A

Reddit - 8/10

Yet we're supposed to belive RT is some sort of isolated infallible metric?

.ak

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

I like that there's no Tarkin-type, we don't need these movies to run parralel to the OT, there's a different dynamic

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you there. But I can't help but feel they just picked someone quite different looking to play a Tarkin like character.

Some of the other New Order officers were quite cool I thought, I liked the Captain of the dreadnaught... He'd be more interesting for me in that role, the sorta 'gruff veteran admiral' character.

.ak

Sudden Valley wrote: »

Surprised Adam Driver is getting so much praise for this movie. Sure his fights were very impressive and some of his scenes were interesting/funny but he is still an emo-anakinesque character whining about how he doesn't want to be bad but has to be, for reasons he can't even articulate. I still have no idea what his motivation is, after watching two movies of him as a villian.

I really enjoyed the movie but was disappointed that they have made Hux a full-blown comic relief character (he was already weak in the first movie) and Snoke totally irrelevant. The writing may be better in these two new movies compared to the hated prequels but the villains are as rubbish.

Driver is brilliant in it, simply brilliant. His struggle is so well potrayed, not just as some stupid emo-anakin like role, it's actually brilliant how he wanders between uncontrollable rage and calm but threatening tone. I loved his control over the 'connection scenes', gave us a little insight as to how strong he is, mentally speaking.

Driver is also a weird dude, his voice is totally alien. He's completely unique and it's insane to compare him to Anakin from the prequels. He nails the role and makes it his own, the only actor I've seen that actually portrays the struggle of temptation of the dark side properly, and makes it believable when he's fully seduced.

Anakin in the prequels is the exact opposite, even when he's turned it doesn't make sense because he just couldn't act it. I never once believed he was fully seduced by the dark side, Palpatine just starts calling him Vader and then he's all like like 'OKAY'

.ak

molloyjh wrote: »

Who goes to see a film they hate 9 times?

Don't argue, just do it.

Osmosis Jones

Yeah Driver does have that voice on his side, he sounds like he's using a voice modifier even when speaking normally

fryup

on a plus note.. skellig michael looked gorgeous in it

tourism kerry will be rubbing their hands in glee

expectationlost

captain phasma's voice should have been more distorted/muffled/lowered.

Osmosis Jones

expectationlost wrote: »

captain phasma's voice should have been more distorted/muffled/lowered.

Hands down my favourite nitpick so far

.ak

molloyjh wrote: »

But I'm talking about his first instinct being to kill Ben Solo before he became Kylo Ren. That doesn't fit at all with what we know of him as a person from the end of ROTJ. You can't just expect an audience to see a massive shift in a characters behaviour and not question it.

I can totally get his motivations after Bens turn to the dark side. It's the role he plays in that happening that doesn't make sense. And that leaves the whole thing built on foundations of sand for me. If the key point in the history of the 2 characters doesn't make sense then it doesn't really matter how logical everything after that is.

That bit sat well with me. For me, there was always a bit of the dark side in Luke, always a bit of Anakin. And it's subtle, but it's there in RoTJ... the dark clothing, the sort of renegade Jedi style, and then ofcourse the rage that comes out of him during the epic battle against Vader in the throne room. Then after he's all about finding that jedi zen, white robes etc.

I think he's always had a bit of fear in him, and he's just looked into what was apparently a deep, dark, nasty mind full of death, horror, and angst... So yeah, for me that was believable. And it was a brilliant little nod to the idealogy of the dark side; fear is a disease, a sickness, once it's in you it'll rot you from the inside out. I think Luke has a bit of fear inside him, and probably put it to the back of his mind, but that day it come to a fore, the fear of not bringing balance to the force, not doing the job Anakin was supposed to do, and instead bestowing his own flesh and blood with the ability and danger of sinking into the darkside with ultimate power.

Personally that's my favourite bit of the film, that fear flickering in his eye, the igniting of the lightsaber, and then the shame... Brilliant. It's moments like that that made the movie decent despite the Rose and Hux BS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8ibl4nPmRE

.ak

Tony EH wrote: »

Have to say that didn't really work for me.

Kinda think it would have been a better send of if he'd actually gone to Krait to duel with Ren, but lost.

Possibility they wanted to do that.

But how did he get there? The dude is stranded.

Foxtrol

.ak wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you there. But I can't help but feel they just picked someone quite different looking to play a Tarkin like character.

Some of the other New Order officers were quite cool I thought, I liked the Captain of the dreadnaught... He'd be more interesting for me in that role, the sorta 'gruff veteran admiral' character.

I think the gruff veteran admiral type character wouldn't play as well with Kylo. I think Hux could be a better character but the two young men trying to get the approval of Snoke was a good dynamic. They somewhat lost Hux by not having someone that can pull off gravitas a bit better at certain points.

.ak

I know the movie is littered with plot holes, but has the fight scene with two extremely force sensitive individuals, one a dark lord essentially, NOT using their force powers against non-force sensitive individuals been explained?

I loved the fight scene, but when I said it to the lads who hated the movie they can't get past the whole fact neither Rey or Kylo used a force push even to get out of head locks or anything. Had to hold up my hands there, haven't a clue...

Disposable1

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Christ, how often does this have to be said.

People making a huge deal of RT scores, while essentially sticking their fingers in their ears and screaming when faced with other metrics.

IMBD - 8/10

CinemaScore - A

Reddit - 8/10

Yet we're supposed to belive RT is some sort of isolated infallible metric?

Christ? Yes we're all very aware of those thank you. You ignored the core message though, and the fact that it was part of a conversation or series of posts.

That being said, to answer your original question, I reckon 8 more times should be enough

Just to be clear, I don't actually use rotten tomatoes at all, I only checked that because I was shocked to hear it, I thought there was universal praise for the film because I was avoiding as much media as possible until I saw the film.