Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi *spoilers from Post 2857*

Foxtrol

PhiloCypher wrote: »

Yeh , with Snoke dead we're left with a buffoon who they've done their best to emasculate by making him the butt of jokes from the very first scene and Kylo, who while I think is the best thing about the's sequel films, is basically played as a temper tantrum throwing teen and not someone with the tactical nous to run an Empire.

I think this is the only way it would work. The rebels are down to a handful of people so the death of Snoke leaves a vacuum where these inexperienced and flawed young characters are likely going to have serious problems keeping their new empire together. These should leave windows for them to make mistakes and allow the rebellion to re-establish itself after Luke's sacrifice.

Osmosis Jones

.ak wrote: »

Possibility they wanted to do that.

But how did he get there? The dude is stranded.

He's not stranded, when he throws the lightsaber away and Rey goes to get it she looks down towards the water and sees an X-Wing submerged. Maybe it doesn't work but I'd assume Luke would be able to Dagobah it out of there if he needed it and it did work.

In saying that I'm glad we didn't see him fight with a lightsaber, it'd be a bit like watching Yoda use one, Yoda was so powerful that he didn't need to fight with one and I feel like Luke at that age is the same way.

Foxtrol

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Having Ackbar do it is certainly nice in theory, but purely cinematically speaking I think it's fair to say having a human (and an actress as talented as Laura Dern) do it makes it a little bit easier to persuade the audience of the emotional weight of the decision compared to a googly-eyed calamari

Agree with this as a reason but I think they also had to get rid of Ackbar when they did. He surely would have been next in line when Leia went down and if he had given the order to stand down I don't think Poe or the others would have mutinied, given their experiences with him. They could have done this with a male or alien character stepping into the leadership role but I feel they wanted to make a point of the lack of respect with Poe remarking that Vice Admiral Holdo didn't look like what he expected and then wouldn't accept orders from her.

.ak

Also the one thing that really annoys me about the sequels is the 'Alliance'. Why is there a rogue group fighting the New Order? Surely the Republic was re-setup in order to ensure the Empire never happens again. Yeah, that's the one thing that really, really sticks out for me. Sure it's the Republic vs the New Order, not some random separatist splinter group? I hate the way they had to reset everything and make it Rebels vs Empire again, or atleast the way they did it makes no sense.

Should've had the Republic death scene at the begining of the movie, with most of their fleet being destroyed somehow, THEN the whole little guy vs big bad empire thing would've worked better.

.ak

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

He's not stranded, when he throws the lightsaber away and Rey goes to get it she looks down towards the water and sees an X-Wing submerged. Maybe it doesn't work but I'd assume Luke would be able to Dagobah it out of there if he needed it and it did work.

In saying that I'm glad we didn't see him fight with a lightsaber, it'd be a bit like watching Yoda use one, Yoda was so powerful that he didn't need to fight with one and I feel like Luke at that age is the same way.

Ah cmon, that X-Wing had coral and all that growing on it, not like an x-wing stuck in a swamp for a day then being fixed up.

Also I kinda disagree with the no sabre thing... Am I correct in saying there was no clash of sabres during the whole movie? Kinda weird. Felt it needed one last epic duel, and I thought the little stick fight between Rey and Luke showed they could've gone down the subtle fencing style road instead of the CGI stupid kung-fu road.

Osmosis Jones

.ak wrote: »

Ah cmon, that X-Wing had coral and all that growing on it, not like an x-wing stuck in a swamp for a day then being fixed up.

Also I kinda disagree with the no sabre thing... Am I correct in saying there was no clash of sabres during the whole movie? Kinda weird. Felt it needed one last epic duel, and I thought the little stick fight between Rey and Luke showed they could've gone down the subtle fencing style road instead of the CGI stupid kung-fu road.

idk how the X-Wings work :pac:

No saber fight is correct, first of the numbered Star Wars movies to do it, I don't feel like it suffered from it really, we still got the team-up moment with Rey and Kylo which I thought was great.

Wedwood

Interestingly, 80% of Google users liked Last Jedi. It's also suggested that Rotten Tomatoes low audience score may be skewed by trolling.

At this stage, I don't have any faith in online movie review sites, they all descend into "10 things wrong with ....", or those idiotic Mr Plinkett 'reviews'

I miss the simpler days when going to the movie was informed by those TV "Making of Star Wars" hour special documentaries, a few trailers on Blue Peter and Barry Norman's proper movie review.

Foxtrol

.ak wrote: »

Also the one thing that really annoys me about the sequels is the 'Alliance'. Why is there a rogue group fighting the New Order? Surely the Republic was re-setup in order to ensure the Empire never happens again. Yeah, that's the one thing that really, really sticks out for me. Sure it's the Republic vs the New Order, not some random separatist splinter group? I hate the way they had to reset everything and make it Rebels vs Empire again, or atleast the way they did it makes no sense.

Should've had the Republic death scene at the begining of the movie, with most of their fleet being destroyed somehow, THEN the whole little guy vs big bad empire thing would've worked better.

They did but the main planets were destroyed by the the super planet death star thing in TFA. I don't think the Empire ever went fully away, I'm not sure about the new cannon but in the old books it pulled back and held some systems which I presume in the new cannon is where the New Order springs up from. After so many years the New Republic probably fell into the same issues of the Old Republic as far as hesitancy to arm and keep up the offensive so the alliance kept up the fight. The rest were overrun or gave up once those planets were taken out in TFA.

EDIT - Found this on wiki which goes along with most of my guess above https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Order_(Star_Wars)

judeboy101

This film broke my heart.

Chris_Heilong

Somehow Disney wants to fool us all into believing that New Coke is better than Classic Coke but we all know the truth.

Osmosis Jones

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Somehow Disney wants to fool us all into believing that New Coke is better than Classic Coke but we all know the truth.

This isn't an OT vs New Movies thing, they're not trying to say they're better than the originals, they're just making new movies.

D.Q

2nd viewing this evening. A lot more enjoyable second time around. Pacing seemed better.

Such a shame there are certain moments that are truly hard to watch. I'm going to go through what I don't like about it, but this is coming from someone who loved the film. Third favourite star wars I'd say. (empire, R1)

The holding for general hux bit at the start is horrendously framed. We get the famous star wars music and crawl, pans down to a huge, threatening ship. Then they do the classic avengers style cutting all music and sound effects for a comedic beat, but it just doesn't land. No need for it there and really sets the film off on a flat note. Struggles to recover but it does eventually get the correct tone back.

Unfortunately this leads us nicely to leia floating through space. Not even bothered breaking this down. Looked ridiculous, made no sense. Another cringey moment.

Thankfully it gets back on track again, Luke and rey drama ramping up a bit on the island.

Finn/Rose is the last issue I have with it. Really clumsy, on the nose, mushy ****e. I absolutely hated the actress that played Rose. She was so hard to take seriously. Looked half porg. Gormless face, awful dialogue and worse delivery. The initial interaction with Finn made my skin crawl and only got worse from there. Her and Finn finishing each others sentences to explain their convoluted plan to the audience, her interaction with the horse creatures (Disneyland ride in 3,2,1) and finally with her "save the things we love" line. A definite contender for one of the worst star wars characters ever. Took me out of the moment every time she was on screen.

Loved everything else. Kylo Ren is right up there as one of the most compelling characters of the entire saga. I'm right behind Rey as a hero. Lukes demonstration of power was amazing, as was his final scene. Some genuinely lovely heartfelt moments between Luke and leia, the two sun's appearing. The porgs and caretakers provided genuine comedy. Cinematography and score was absolutely flawless.

8/10 for me.

If Leia could have dragged Rose out into space with her and stayed there, it would have been 9.5.

shamrock55

I agree with rose,I don't even think there was a need for that character in the first place,I hated all the scenes with her in,casting got it badly wrong but she shouldn't have been in it anyway I don't think

Oh and those horse things,sweet mother of god wtf

q2xv9rjei4awgb

Apart from the casino scene, I do have one other complaint..

That scene with Leia... We all know the one I'm talking about..

Mr E

Saw it last night (after successfully avoiding spoilers since last week).

Really enjoyed it. The Leia scene was silly (how?) and the Rey/Kylo chats were a bit dumb, but everything else landed for me.

Really great movie and I'll go again next week.

The nerdrage (now that I can read it) is hilarious.

Gizmodo have ranked the 10 funniest change.org petitions about TLJ.
Number 1 is "Rian Johnson has to admit that the Last Jedi is awful"

https://io9.gizmodo.com/hilariously-dumb-change-org-petitions-about-the-last-je-1821394256

py2006

Ok, this is gonna sound silly. So feel free to call me...silly!

In the few days before release and subsequently I have watched some interviews with the cast and noticed (to my mind anyway) that Daisy wasn't her normally smiley and chirpy self and looked more serious and withdrawn.

I was thinkin to myself, is she fed up with SW or unhappy with this movie and then I saw this reaction: (starts at 0.33)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VGsJSX_YDc

Sad Professor

She's exhausted from doing press. She's also talked in interviews about being very nervous and self-critical of her performance during the making of this film, how she kept second guessing herself because she knows how much Star Wars means to people now which she was mostly oblivious to during the making of TFA. She's also undoubtedly heard of the various "Rey is a clone of Palpatine", "Rey is Obi-wan's daughter", "Rey is the reincarnation of Anakin" theories, so she knew the film wasn't going to satisfy fans in this regard. And listening to Hamill, who knows how crazy fans are, probably hasn't helped.

Like Ford, I'd imagine she'll be happy to move on from Star Wars.

Nettle Soup

I am a life long Star Wars fan. It was the 2nd movie I ever went to. And to be honest I am easily pleased when it comes to Star Wars but I left the cinema yesterday confused and deflated. I think the director was trying too hard and it was a little too long. I almost stopped caring. I thought Luke's character and ending was handled poorly. As a childhood hero, it was tough to watch. I would even say some parts of the story were just silly and boring. I will watch it again to see if I missed anything. That Leia scene needs to be cut out, it totally disengaged me - I thought it was a piss take!

Zubeneschamali

Nettle Soup wrote: »

I will watch it again to see if I missed anything.

I will not. Worst SW film I've seen at the cinema since Attack of the Clones.

I skipped Revenge of the Sith until it was on DVD, will probably do the same for IX.

Chris_Heilong

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

This isn't an OT vs New Movies thing, they're not trying to say they're better than the originals, they're just making new movies.

Really? I dont agree, The reason he said Luke had to die:

“I had huge hesitance. I was terrified. It was a growing sense of dread when I realized this was going to make sense in that chapter … I think the hero’s journey of Luke Skywalker concluded in Return of the Jedi. This [trilogy] is the hero’s journey of Rey, and Finn, and Poe. The [ongoing] story of Luke is one that has to play in tandem with that of Rey.”

https://screenrant.com/star-wars-8-luke-death-explained-rian-johnson/

bullvine

The film is an absolutely terrible film. Basic story telling has gone out the window, the limp excuse for Rey's Family Background and the treatment of Snokes Character. Wheres the reward in that?

I know around 10 people who have seen it now, and at least 8 of them thought it was terrible, maybe its a generation thing because my generation grew up on the original series.

The tone was set when Luke threw the Lightsaber away, it completely crapped all over the mystery and excitement from the ending of the Force Awakens.

Christy42

I enjoyed it. The Leia scene could have been subtler but we have seen plenty of weird things with the force before.

The casino scene was a bit weird, I disliked the chase on the rabbit horse things more though. Hardly a killer for a film. The acting was great from plenty of the actors as well.

The last half hour was brilliant in my view. Certainly the Finn arc was weaker but it was nice to see a long shot plan not end up all sunshine for the good guys. Yoda looked weird I thought but didn't see an issue with the scene.

Saw some comments on "diversity" hires. Honestly I feel like people are looking to be offended at that point if they are complaining that there is an actor of Asian decent (no idea where she is actually from). Her role was not the strongest ever written but hardly badly played.

Obviously others disagree which is fair enough. I can certainly see some of the points. I guess I just don't weight them as heavily in my mind.

Giruilla

If anyone thinks the RT audience reviews are just 'trolling' and not a true indicator of fans reactions... I suggest going onto the message boards and actually reading a few pages of the reviews.

Look at the detail the 1/2 star reviews go into compared with the 4/5 star reviews. You'll notice a severe disparity.

I've yet to talk to anyone IRL who thought it was good. I still can't get over how appalling it was. I can't see myself going to see another star wars film, think I'm done. I get it, I'm not the target audience anymore. It's sad that this new trilogy is actually increasing my respect for the prequels.

Giruilla

bullvine wrote: »

The tone was set when Luke threw the Lightsaber away.

You could condense the entire turd of a film into that one scene.

py2006

Sad Professor wrote: »

She's exhausted from doing press. She's also talked in interviews about being very nervous and self-critical of her performance during the making of this film, how she kept second guessing herself because she knows how much Star Wars means to people now which she was mostly oblivious to during the making of TFA. She's also undoubtedly heard of the various "Rey is a clone of Palpatine", "Rey is Obi-wan's daughter", "Rey is the reincarnation of Anakin" theories, so she knew the film wasn't going to satisfy fans in this regard. And listening to Hamill, who knows how crazy fans are, probably hasn't helped.

Like Ford, I'd imagine she'll be happy to move on from Star Wars.

Oh I'm sure she is exhausted etc. But when asked was she happy with outcome of movie she said, "emmmm....sure". I took it as a polite no.

Drumpot

Giruilla wrote: »

If anyone thinks the RT audience reviews are just 'trolling' and not a true indicator of fans reactions... I suggest going onto the message boards and actually reading a few pages of the reviews.

Look at the detail the 1/2 star reviews go into compared with the 4/5 star reviews. You'll notice a severe disparity.

I've yet to talk to anyone IRL who thought it was good. I still can't get over how appalling it was. I can't see myself going to see another star wars film, think I'm done. I get it, I'm not the target audience anymore. It's sad that this new trilogy is actually increasing my respect for the prequels.

Those shouting the loudest aren't necessarily a reflection of the wider audience. In many cases, people who are happy enough with the movie don't feel the need to share their opinions or open themselves up to criticism by those spitting fire.

The assumption seems to be that your opinion needs validation by a rating system voted by people. As I mentioned, not all people feel the need to validate their opinions online so its a reflection of supporters, not movie goers. Generally, people going to enjoy this movie as a fantasy movie will not be upset by the moments that are being highlighted as issues.

Depending on your point of view, it can be very enjoyable or very disappointing. It is really that simple.

Sabre0001

Seen it twice now and it's a 7 or 8 from me; good, but not great.

Humour for the most part I found decent. We've had Poe crack wise in tense situations before ("Who talks first?"), so that wasn't out of place. When Leia and Luke meet for the first time though! Hmmm...

Complaints I have echo that of many other posters - the Leia flight scene, the casino planet (possibly setting up other franchise opportunities - now anyone can be Force sensitive, which also makes it more believable that Rey comes from nothing), the entire usage of Finn...I think Poe is a poor character too - as he's such a good pilot, why put others at risk - just send the one man army in!

One more thing on the Finn/Rose story. She somehow loops back around to stop him driving into the battering ram - OK, these things happy in movies. Her reasoning - she saved him / that's how we win; saving what we love...Riiight. Except you're in the shadow of an AT-AT and the door covering the rest of the rebels has just been destroyed, so now everyone is odds on to die...

Lots of issues with the space chase scene. Kylo was told to pull back as he couldn't be covered - couldn't be covered from what? He had destroyed the hanger and there didn't seem to be any other defensive capabilities. The lightspeed weaponry scene certainly looked cool, but there was no need for her to be on the ship in the first place; it was doing a grand job steering itself in a straight line. And I hope there's a How It Should Have Ended cartoon that starts with the cannon aiming at the main ship rather than the base - what good is an evacuation if you have nowhere to go?!

Captain Phasma - ugh. Waste of a character. And why was she so intent on fighting Finn hand-to-hand? Just shoot him! Also, she has a knack for just appearing - in TFA, she appeared beside Finn when he took off his helmet / in TLJ she emerges through the smoke when she couldn't have been that far away.

Really enjoyed Luke, Rey, and Kylo. The throne room scene was great. Not too bothered with Snoke being written off; we've been told he's a big bad and incredibly powerful and the story here is more about Kylo's ambition. As Rey said, he would not kneel before Snoke.

I think it makes more sense for Rey to turn dark than Kylo to be saved though. She was drawn to the dark side of the island, quick to rage - attacks Luke (from behind, no less), any of her fights against Kylo...While it might have been obvious, it may have given us a more interesting story. Especially now that everyone can be Force sensitive - sure, there are two powerful dark side forces...but the light bands together as one. Blah blah (I'm not a Star Wars writer ).

Wasn't in a rush back to see it after the first time, but ended up going with a group who hadn't seen it. That's me done though, I think.

fluke

Giruilla wrote: »

If anyone thinks the RT audience reviews are just 'trolling' and not a true indicator of fans reactions... I suggest going onto the message boards and actually reading a few pages of the reviews.

Look at the detail the 1/2 star reviews go into compared with the 4/5 star reviews. You'll notice a severe disparity.

I've yet to talk to anyone IRL who thought it was good. I still can't get over how appalling it was. I can't see myself going to see another star wars film, think I'm done. I get it, I'm not the target audience anymore. It's sad that this new trilogy is actually increasing my respect for the prequels.

Regardless of the OT or PT, I feel that as a fan of the characters presented in TFA, pretty insulted/trolled. Only Poe and Kylo came away unscathed.

Hector Savage

Out of curiosity - what stage would IX be at ? rough draft of a script ? fully written script and starting to prep. for shooting ??

I know it's a bit of an open question, but would be interesting to know.
I know TLJ started filming in Jan. 2016.

TerrorFirmer

bullvine wrote: »

The film is an absolutely terrible film. Basic story telling has gone out the window, the limp excuse for Rey's Family Background and the treatment of Snokes Character. Wheres the reward in that?

While I wasn't wild on the direction they took Luke, far more so than the original trilogy the entire strength of this trinity rests heavily on what Ep9 delivers.

I like TLJ but Ep9 will make or break everything up to this point and has the power to bring it together.... or break it like the prequels.