Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi *spoilers from Post 2857*

david75

Just catching up on all your thoughts. Some good takes guys.
As much as I like the TLJ
This film feels weirdly small. It’s like a season finale of a tv show rather than a Star Wars film.

It could be it that it echoes battlestar galactica a bit, the resistance being chased and even some of the shots of them popping out of hyperspace.

It’s a minor quibble but something that is definitely there. Hope it’s less apparent on further viewings.

david75

20 minutes of extra scenes for the DVD/BR released. Rian spoke about some of them recently:

“Again I will give the caveat that the movie is better as a whole without any of them, but yeah man, there was some great stuff. There’s a whole extended sequence where Finn and Rose and DJ sneak through the Mega Destroyer when they’re kind of, after they sneak in with DJ and they’re trying to find the tracker. There’s a whole extended sequence. It’s a full sequence of like stuff with them sneaking through this big office area of the Mega Destroyer and then having to fake out these Stormtroopers.”

“And then on the island there’s a massive sequence that we shot with Daisy and Mark, which is kind of an additional sort of trial/test that she goes through, that involves her and Mark, and then a big emotional scene between the two of them. I mean, it’s big stuff, it’s like actual real scenes.”

“There’s an extended sequence with Rey and the caretakers, which are the Nun-like fish creatures. That’s actually one of the biggest things that was taken out of the movie. And there’s this incursion on Snoke’s ship, I mean there’s a lot of stuff that was cut out of that, with Rose and DJ and Finn, and some of it is particularly fun.”

“There’s some really nice stuff in there, but we actually cut that stuff pretty early because it was very clear that that section of the movie was completely lopsided in favor of those three, and it just didn’t support it. But it’s good stuff. It’s really good stuff. I assume when you’ll see it, you’ll enjoy it because I mean, we all did. It was cut early, and how you always know is like my staff, there’s a decent number of assistants and collaborators that work in the cutting room, and they were all complaining when we cut the sequence. And that’s how you know that it was something that people like.”

“There’s a couple Finn scenes that—there’s one great Finn/Poe scene that’s kind of a set up scene at the beginning when Poe was kind of bringing Finn up to speed after he comes out of his coma. God, there’s a bunch of really fun stuff. Yeah, anyway, we talk more about them when the Blu-ray comes out, but I’m excited for folks to see them.”

Last but not least Johnson confirmed that yes, there will be a blooper reel.

david75

Sounds like most of Finns story is on the cutting room floor

Drumpot

nix wrote: »

I'm sorry but the reoccurring issues being pointed out as faults are far away from what anybody can deem nitpicking. I'm a fan of TFA and despite its flaws, the movie is fluid and the issues at hand dont stand out, at least not near to the extent of the issues/character changes in this movie.

Being a fan of a movie does not imply objectivity, if anything it implies a greater likelihood of prejudice and bias (good or bad). The "issues" and "flaws" being highlighted are not issues and flaws, they are story/character moments that some people didn't like and some people didn't mind.

People are qualifying their disappointment with points that certainly appear contradictory when benchmarked against the originals.


I don't dispute some of the negative things being said about the movie, I just don't think they warrant the vitriolic attacks some are making as if it was the Star Wars Christmas movie! Likewise, this was not amazing or the best star wars ever, it was a solid addition that was an enjoyable movie that my children also enjoyed. That's a success for me.

Goodshape

david75 wrote: »

It could be it that it echoes battlestar galactica a bit, the resistance being chased and even some of the shots of them popping out of hyperspace.

I thought they were going straight for the '33' episode of BSG when mentioned being tracked through hyperspace. That was a fantastic and tense episode of that show.

Zubeneschamali

david75 wrote: »

Sounds like most of Finns story is on the cutting room floor

Not enough of it.

Zubeneschamali

Maybe I missed a link - how does Fin get from under the guns of the AT-ATs on I-Can't-Believe-It's-Not-Hoth to inside the Millennium Falcon with the unconscious Rose? Did Scotty beam them up?

Why did Yoda blow up the Tree of Gondor telling Luke that it was cool to burn it all down when we find out later that Rey has the Jedi texts on the Falcon?

NIMAN

Another big disappointment for me was the progression, or lack of, of Kylo Ren character.

For me, he had the potential to be a great baddie, but he took a step backwards in this. So much time without the mask made him less ominous IMHO. He was a weak baddie, and hard to believe that luke saw such raw power in him, when he doesn't seem to show this in his fighting ability.

The scene with leia coming back into the spaceship had me thinking to myself, jesus what is this nonsense. It was tacky looking.

I had heard about this great new female character too, and when I seen her and the performance, I again hated her. A nothing character who spent so much time with the useless Find doing nothing except filling screen time. I was hoping we had seen the end of her and Finn, but alas.

I could go on!

py2006

Grown Man Doesn’t Like Laser Sword Movie

A CONDENSED ball of rage known locally as 42-year-old Martin Hanley has confessed to everyone following his social media channels that he did not care one bit for a movie released recently centering around laser swords.

Theboinkmaster

david75 wrote: »

It’s a minor quibble but something that is definitely there. Hope it’s less apparent on further viewings.

TBH I don't think there will be many repeated viewings as will just get worse after each viewing.

There's a few good things but they are far outweighed by the bad.

It's just a really bad film IMO.

The Nal

Main thing for me was the slow chase? The First Order ships cant outrun the rebels. Then why not light speed ahead for a sec and then turn around?!

nix

Drumpot wrote: »

Being a fan of a movie does not imply objectivity, if anything it implies a greater likelihood of prejudice and bias (good or bad). The "issues" and "flaws" being highlighted are not issues and flaws, they are story/character moments that some people didn't like and some people didn't mind.

People are qualifying their disappointment with points that certainly appear contradictory when benchmarked against the originals.


I don't dispute some of the negative things being said about the movie, I just don't think they warrant the vitriolic attacks some are making as if it was the Star Wars Christmas movie! Likewise, this was not amazing or the best star wars ever, it was a solid addition that was an enjoyable movie that my children also enjoyed. That's a success for me.

Right but my point, which you missed, is why would i be positively bias towards TFA but not TLJ? or why would i be negatively bias towards TLJ but not TFA?

I think you're talking alot of waffle mate, this isnt a benchmark against the originals thread, its a thread on TLJ which people are naturally highlighting the big issues with and i can comfortably say, the issues in this movie far outweigh anything from the originals... ANYTHING

Tony EH

Drumpot wrote: »

First rule when lambasting the reboot or new installments of a cherished franchise seems to be to ignore any negative similarities with the sacred originals. This wouldn’t be the first franchise where I have seen the exact same selective nitpicking.

Who's "ignoring" anything?

There's comparing and contrasting going on.

If you want to talk about the problems of the originals...I'm more than ready.

david75

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

TBH I don't think there will be many repeated viewings as will just get worse after each viewing.

There's a few good things but they are far outweighed by the bad.

It's just a really bad film IMO.

It’s just been pointed out that Empire is really small too. It only takes place on three planets. Its a shame this one is a bridge too far for some people. The canto bight sequence I had the most problems with. They could have easily dropped that and reworked it as them just getting onto the destroyer without the DJ character.
But watched it again few days back and it has a purpose and it’s place. It just could have been a tighter sequence.

Foxtrol

The Nal wrote: »

Main thing for me was the slow chase? The First Order ships cant outrun the rebels. Then why not light speed ahead for a sec and then turn around?!

Could the rebels not then just turnaround and go the other way then? They only had a limited number of big ships and their current plan had little risk to it (until it didn't)

Tony EH

Foxtrol wrote: »

You obviously haven't watched it recently.

"Don't blame me, I'm an interpreter how am I supposed to tell a power socket from a computer terminal".

Oh I forgot to add that C3PO had his head on backwards will spending his time as a backpack but I'm sure that was just to add to the tension of the scenes.

That's not even in the same realm as "I'm the boss now Phasma", or "yo momma".

Tony EH

kg703 wrote: »

Spoiler - what spoiler? Her parents - IMO that could still not be true.

I really hope it is though.

david75

Tony EH wrote: »

Who's "ignoring" anything?

There's comparing and contrasting going on.

If you want to talk about the problems of the originals...I'm more than ready.

Yeah comparing the new ones to the OT is a flawed approach.
We view those films through impenetrable rose tinted glasses and hardwired nostalgia.
Nothing is ever going to reach that gold standard in our minds. Ever.

Numerous and easier ways to critique or appreciate these films on their own merits and failings imo.

They’ll only ever fail if held against the OT yet at the same time being accused of simultaneously copying the ot to being too dramatically different to the established language of Star Wars as we understand it.

Zubeneschamali

nix wrote: »

Right but my point, which you missed, is why would i be positively bias towards TFA but not TLJ? or why would i be negatively bias towards TLJ but not TFA?

Don't forget Rogue One - it had some issues, but worked quite well internally (I had some problems with Jyn flipping from bad girl to heroine rather abruptly), and not only fitted seamlessly with the OT, it even fixed a big plot hole in the first movie.

Despite being made in a straitjacket (we all knew what would happen), despite Edwards getting the boot mid-movie, I still liked it a lot more than TLJ.

TerrorFirmer

Drumpot wrote: »

First rule when lambasting the reboot or new installments of a cherished franchise seems to be to ignore any negative similarities with the sacred originals. This wouldn’t be the first franchise where I have seen the exact same selective nitpicking.

It’s Almost like some people knew this was going to not meet their expectations and went to the movie to prove it wouldn’t! Finding all evidence that confirmed their suspicions, instead of just trying to enjoy it!

In fairness that seems to be your default defense for virtually everything.

If I'm not mistaken you were the same person defending Alien Covenant here, claming that people were somehow going out of their way to find fault with a great film.

Tony EH

david75 wrote: »

Yeah comparing the new ones to the OT is a flawed approach.

It's comparing and contrasting elements within. Not the entirety.

In this case, some people seem to think that because there were moments of levity in the originals, the humour on the new stuff is the same.

It's not.

Foxtrol

nix wrote: »

I think you're talking alot of waffle mate, this isnt a benchmark against the originals thread, its a thread on TLJ which people are naturally highlighting the big issues with and i can comfortably say, the issues in this movie far outweigh anything from the originals... ANYTHING

That's fine and you can make your points but at the same time it is confusing when people seem to have completely warped memories of the originals, claiming things are new to this movie when similar can be seen throughout the OT.

david75

Tony EH wrote: »

That's not even in the same realm as "I'm the boss now Phasma", or "yo momma".

The Mother joke is an in universe thing. From the new books.
Hux’s father was rescued from planet by some imperial woman and they had Hux out of wedlock so he’s been called bastard his whols life and it’s a trigger for him.


Funny enough there’s tons of stuff buried in TLJ that are payoffs if you’re following the books and comics.

david75

Tony EH wrote: »

It's comparing and contrasting elements within. Not the entirety.

In this case, some people seem to think that because there were moments of levity in the originals, the humour on the new stuff is the same.

It's not.

Quality of jokes aside, humour and cheesy humour is part of Star Wars top to bottom. Lot of the jokes didn’t work for me and they seem to be loved by friends of mine and others.
The film won’t live or die on the humour. Nor should it be judged by it I don’t think. It’s not really an important element of the story but it’s there in TLJ a little glaringly at times.

david75

Tony* would you say you enjoyed this more than TFA?

Tony EH

david75 wrote: »

The Mother joke is an in universe thing. From the new books.
Hux’s father was rescued from planet by some imperial woman and they had Hux out of wedlock so he’s been called bastard his whols life and it’s a trigger for him.

Funny enough there’s tons of stuff buried in TLJ that are payoffs if you’re following the books and comics.

I've probably said this before to you, but 90% of the audience (fans and otherwise) aren't reading the supplementary material.

In any case, it's still pretty awful and a terrible way to open a Star Wars film.

In the inevitable fan edit, I can see that being the first universal snip.

NIMAN

Are there any bad press reviews out there? I've only seen positive ones, which would nearly suggest there's foul work at play.

Always had my doubts about film critics and whether they get paid to say X is a great film. Again, I know it's subjective.

Goodshape

david75 wrote: »

It’s just been pointed out that Empire is really small too. It only takes place on three planets.

Three planets shouldn't feel 'small', though. And it doesn't really in ESB.

Hoth, Dagobah, and Cloud City all seem like unique places far away from each other. They journey to each place and the audience gets to soak up the atmosphere each time.

TLJ didn't feel small in the "only 3 planets" sense. It felt small in that everything was right on top of each other all the time. I don't remember anyone traveling anywhere, it all just seemed to happen all at once.

Space battle? No problem, everyone and their uncle is in the same patch of space now. Need to go to a random planet to find someone? BOOM! You're there! WOoop! And Back again!

Everyone loves a AT-AT's right? ZOOOM! We're on a planet! Let'd do AT-ATs for a bit! Wayhay! Here comes the Falcon from the far side of the galaxy, just in time!! Neat!!

Wasn't that fun?? WOOSH! Space again. Gang's all here! Wahooo!

It felt small.

Mitch Connor

I know this movie is about Failure...

Yoda's failure to see the rise of the sith.
Luke's failure to stop the darkness in Kylo.
Rey's failure to bring Kylo Back.

ETC...

But fook, Fin and Rose failed so badly they just made things so much worse.

If they had done nothing in the movie then there is a good chance the rebel fighters make it to the planet and hide without further issue - Finn and Rose, their mission, is how the FO find out about the cloaking plan and then blow them out of space.

I wonder will Finn/Rose/Poes direct involvement in the FO killing so many Rebel fighters be a central theme of the next one.

Tony EH

david75 wrote: »

Quality of jokes aside, humour and cheesy humour is part of Star Wars top to bottom. Lot of the jokes didn’t work for me and they seem to be loved by friends of mine and others.
The film won’t live or die on the humour. Nor should it be judged by it I don’t think. It’s not really an important element of the story but it’s there in TLJ a little glaringly at times.

But, it will when it overwhelms the good stuff contained within Dave. That's the problem.

It's so heavy handed in TLJ and in many other modern blockbusters, that it destroys drama and tension.

It just isn't subtle enough and very badly placed.

Tonally, TLJ is a train wreck and it's difficult to take the serious moments seriously.