Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi *spoilers from Post 2857*

nix

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Don't forget Rogue One - it had some issues, but worked quite well internally (I had some problems with Jyn flipping from bad girl to heroine rather abruptly), and not only fitted seamlessly with the OT, it even fixed a big plot hole in the first movie.

Despite being made in a straitjacket (we all knew what would happen), despite Edwards getting the boot mid-movie, I still liked it a lot more than TLJ.

I loved Rogue one, I'm baffled when people say they hated it. The only flaw ive heard people say of it was the characters lacked depth..

Well they aint gonna be around long, so lets not waste time on backstory

hah

Tony EH

david75 wrote: »

Tony* would you say you enjoyed this more than TFA?

I mentioned earlier, I think, that the good parts of TLJ were better than the good parts of TFA?

But, both films are severely hampered by inadvisable, unnecessary, attempts at comedy writing that's just intrusive and, the worst thing of all, just not funny.

There's a lot to like in each film. But they are a sum of their parts and not satisfying as a whole.

Both films needed a really good editor who understood how to work a dramatic strain through a film successfully.

Some of the laughs are ok. Porg guilt and the chopped up rock fucking up the caretakers day. But, the rest are terrible and ill fitting, going a long way to ruining the enjoyment of the film as, first of all a film and second as a Star Wars episode.

david75

NIMAN wrote: »

Are there any bad press reviews out there? I've only seen positive ones, which would nearly suggest there's foul work at play.

Always had my doubts about film critics and whether they get paid to say X is a great film. Again, I know it's subjective.

There’s two different ‘campaigns’ from so called true Star Wars fans one hitting sites like RT to drag the score down, another running a petition to have Disney remove the last Jedi from Star Wars. Yes seriously.


Let another lazy, salacious narrative die a fiery death.

"But are audiences actually disliking The Last Jedi? One problem with Rotten Tomatoes’ audience score, along with IMDB, is there’s no vetting process. People don’t need to prove they’ve seen a movie and can vote multiple times through multiple accounts.

Instead, we should look to the movie’s CinemaScore, an America-based exit poll system that scientifically works out an audience score. Movies are marked between A+ and F, the score often accurately hinting at how much a movie will make at the box-office.

The Force Awakens earned an A score, with 90% of all respondents being positive, the average score being 4.5, while Rogue One earned an A, 91% positive feedback and the same score. By comparison, The Last Jedi also won an A CinemaScore, 89% positive feedback, and a five-out-of-five score."

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/star-wars-the-last-jedi-audience-cinemascore-rotten-tomato-user-score-a8116166.html

Chris_Heilong

RedLetterMedia have put up there Half in the Bag review:

The Nal

Foxtrol wrote: »

Could the rebels not then just turnaround and go the other way then? They only had a limited number of big ships and their current plan had little risk to it (until it didn't)

The ships can come out of light speed within a few feet of the target, can land in ships coming out of light speed etc. The OJ slow Bronco chase - which took up half the movie - was nonsense.

david75

Tony EH wrote: »

I mentioned earlier, I think, that the good parts of TLJ were better than the good parts of TFA?

But, both films are severely hampered by inadvisable, unnecessary, attempts at comedy writing that's just intrusive and, the worst thing of all, just not funny.

There's a lot to like in each film. But they are a sum of their parts and not satisfying as a whole.

Both films needed a really good editor who understood how to work a dramatic strain through a film successfully.

Some of the laughs are ok. Porg guilt and the chopped up rock fucking up the caretakers day. But, the rest are terrible and ill fitting, going a long way to ruining the enjoyment of the film as, first of all a film and second as a Star Wars episode.

I’m with ye. the same way good jokes stop being funny once you’ve heard them in hoping the bad jokes won’t even be noticeable in this in time.

Drumpot

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

In fairness that seems to be your default defense for virtually everything.

If I'm not mistaken you were the same person defending Alien Covenant here, claming that people were somehow going out of their way to find fault with a great film.

You are correct about my aliens comments and it’s exactly what I am referring to because it’s a consistent issue people seem to have with reboots or additions to older franchises. They don’t like the fact that the movie is being made or the direction being taken. That in itself is a good enough reason to not enjoy a movie and more relevant then “this character wouldn’t do that” or “the story was bad”.

My default stance is that franchise movies like these unsettle some fans, not because of the movie made but how it fits into the world that was originally portrayed. The movie isn’t judged as a movie on its own but how it stands up to the others , whether people want to compare it to originals or not, that’s what we all do consciously and sub consciously. So comparisons with originals is inevitable.

For me that’s why I need to see these more then once. I seldom enjoy them as much on first viewing as I do on repeat when I soak them up as part of the movie universe. Accepting them as cannon and part of the universe is important for me and it lowers my bar which helps me enjoy them better.That’s not to say others need to feel that way or watch it again, that’s just my weird reaction! Prob cause I’m trying to get all in touch with my own force with meditation stuff and one part of that is accepting the world and people as they are instead of how I want them to be. I try to apply that to movies and it actually makes for a more rewarding movie experience when you focus on enjoying movies more then you do identifying the things you don’t like!

A person saying “there were silly moments or characters in originals” is not pissing on originals. They are finding it hard to see why it’s ok in originals but so angrily attacked in newer movies. Nostalgia bias is not the only factor but it’s defintely a major factor that seems to be flat out refuted.

I don’t dispute issues people have with the movies in that they don’t like the direction taken , the stories or the characters. I think of this like when I goto a football forum and some fans are entrenched in certain views, interpreting the same information differently (this player is crap - no he’s deadly). It’s the same here.

Not too many people are going over the top positive about TLJ (here) as much as people over OTT negative so I tend to default to challenge whichever side I feel is being a bit disingenuous with their reasons for not enjoying it. Doesn’t make me right, it’s just my not very popular default setting, like you said.

Foxtrol

The Nal wrote: »

The ships can come out of light speed within a few feet of the target, can land in ships coming out of light speed etc. The OJ slow Bronco chase - which took up half the movie - was nonsense.

Think they specifically mentioned that they were too close for a jump. I don't think anywhere in a Star Wars movie where we've seen such a short jump.

I agree they could have picked a better basis but you have yet to punch a hole in it so it is far from nonsense.

Foxtrol

I see that after a few days of complete heart break for all the Star War theory guys they are already back at it.

They're saying Snoke might not actually be dead and it somewhat makes sense.

brianregan09

https://theconcourse.deadspin.com/a-list-of-some-of-the-times-the-last-jedi-told-the-olde-1821396631

Here ya go haters

The Nal

Foxtrol wrote: »

Think they specifically mentioned that they were too close for a jump. I don't think anywhere in a Star Wars movie where we've seen such a short jump.

I agree they could have picked a better basis but you have yet to punch a hole in it so it is far from nonsense.

OK. Go back and bit so theyre not too close and then forward and stop within a few feet.

Or, put a driod in a small ship and light speed into it.

TerrorFirmer

Traffic Delay wrote: »

I saw this movie yesterday, I loved it, what a stunning movie, the best Star Wars movie made so far in my opinion.

Did you make it in time, or did you miss a few minutes?

david75

I don’t get the point of sniping at people for liking it. Seriously lads?

david75

Traffic Delay wrote: »

Just because you think a character will be a zen jedi of wisdom in 30 years time, doesn't mean that is what will happen, life doesn't go the way you think it will.

Agreed. It wouldve been so boring and predictable had they gone that way with Luke. And those most vocal hating the film would have been angry about that too no doubt.

Traffic Delay

Traffic Delay wrote: »

Fantastic movie, the thrown room scene is one of the best scenes in cinematic history, never mind Star Wars history. The chemistry between Kylo and Rey and their acting was stunning. Nothing in any of the other movies matches it. We've seen the standard lightsaber duels a million times, I love that we got to see something different and better.

I love that Kylo isn't just a vanilla Darth Vader type of villain, he actually says please to Rey in desperation for her to join him.

I completely agree with all of this. I just wish everything didn't go back to normal 5 minutes later.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Traffic Delay wrote: »

Fantastic movie, the thrown room scene is one of the best scenes in cinematic history, never mind Star Wars history. The chemistry between Kylo and Rey and their acting was stunning. Nothing in any of the other movies matches it. We've seen the standard lightsaber duels a million times, I love that we got to see something different and better.

I love that Kylo isn't just a vanilla Darth Vader type of villain, he actually says please to Rey in desperation for her to join him.

I don't even know where to start.

falinn merking

Traffic Delay wrote: »

Just because you think a character will be a zen jedi of wisdom in 30 years time, doesn't mean that is what will happen, life doesn't go the way you think it will.

How dare you.:mad:

Disney and Rian Johnson should have taken into account what obsessed fanboys and nerds had in their daydreams.

Now the fact you or I may have really enjoyed the movie is quite beside the point.

These boys have 6000 names and for their sake TLJ should be wiped from cannon and anybody involved in the making of the movie should be flogged.

I am sure these TRUE FANS know better then the rest of us and I will apologise for liking the movie we already got.

So when does work begin on the New Episode 8?:D

Sad Professor

Traffic Delay wrote: »

Fantastic movie, the thrown room scene is one of the best scenes in cinematic history, never mind Star Wars history. The chemistry between Kylo and Rey and their acting was stunning. Nothing in any of the other movies matches it. We've seen the standard lightsaber duels a million times, I love that we got to see something different and better.

I love that Kylo isn't just a vanilla Darth Vader type of villain, he actually says please to Rey in desperation for her to join him.

I wanted her to say yes even though I knew she wouldn't. I liked Kylo in the first, but Johnson really made me care about him.

That whole sequence is great. Especially loved the moment after he cuts Snoke in half. The lightsaber moves across the room and (in the same shot) Rey reaches up and grabs it. Then she stands up and they both look each for a very long moment before turning to face the guards.

david75

Sad Professor wrote: »

I wanted her to say yes even though I knew she wouldn't. I liked Kylo in the first, but Johnson really made me care about him.

That whole sequence is great. Especially loved the moment after he cuts Snoke in half. The lightsaber moves across the room and (in the same shot) Rey reaches up and grabs it. Then she stands up and they both look each for a very long moment before turning to face the guards.

That whole throne room scene but particularly the battle and the rey and kylo scene post battle is among the greatest scenes in all Star Wars. It’s fvcking fantastic on every single level.

falinn merking

So they killed Snoke and yes I did wonder who he really was but the way TLJ played out it is Kylo Ren who is the most important First Order character.

I hate the EU old and new so for me if it's not in the movies it does not count.

So missing back stories.

Sad Professor

david75 wrote: »

That whole throne room scene but particularly the battle and the rey and kylo scene post battle is among the greatest scenes in all Star Wars. It’s fvcking fantastic on every single level.

Yeah the battle itself is great. Felt quite different from anything we've seen before. I mean, we've seen Jedis fight together in the prequels obviously, but never like that. They are so in sync with each other and that makes the aftermath very intense. It was mentioned in reviews, but so much of the action in the film serves character.

Tony EH

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

RedLetterMedia have put up there Half in the Bag review:

Bang on.

david75

Verpiss dich wrote: »

So they killed Snoke and yes I did wonder who he really was but the way TLJ played out it is Kylo Ren who is the most important First Order character.

I hate the EU old and new so for me if it's not in the movies it does not count.

So missing back stories.

I don’t think Star Wars needs every character to have a backstory. Sure there’s a market for it and people would buy books and comics if they’d did it, but it’s not necessary to map out every single background characters story. It’s more powerful if they’re left as a myestery. It’s really Star Trek to map out and define every single character. It’s cumbersome if it happens for everyone that appears on screen

david75

Sad Professor wrote: »

Yeah the battle itself is great. Felt quite different from anything we've seen before. I mean, we've seen Jedis fight together in the prequels obviously, but never like that. They are so in sync with each other and that makes the aftermath very intense. It was mentioned in reviews, but so much of the action in the film serves character.

It’s so wonderful. Every shot judged perfectly and the slo mo was a shock initially and a first for a battle in Star Wars but man it worked to really elevate the whole.
Wonderful filmmaking and storytelling.
Him pleadin. With her to join him such a tasty brilliant call back to luke and Vader in Empire.

Nettle Soup

I did think Luke's character was ruined by this movie. I expected him to be more like Ben Kenobi and Yoda albeit with some regret and sadness.
Instead he acted like a spoiled angry child. He had somehow regressed from ROTJ. Throwing away the lightsaber at the start was stupid and initiated the downhill spiral. A real jedi would show more respect to his new guest.
And the death scene...a damp squib.

I am still astounded that Leia bridge explosion scene made the movie. A farce of a scene.

branie2

Not really, as he became one with the Force

david75

Tony EH wrote: »

Bang on.

I can’t take this guy seriously. He sounds exactly like the bloated obese troll that hates absolutely everything and has to let everyone know, all the time.
He’s so Nauseating.

Nettle Soup

branie2 wrote: »

Not really, as he became one with the Force

Why bother? Why did he have to die?
He seemed very much at one with the force to do what he did remotely!
Total lack of imagination.

david75

Nettle Soup wrote: »

I did think Luke's character was ruined by this movie. I expected him to be more like Ben Kenobi and Yoda albeit with some regret and sadness.
Instead he acted like a spoiled angry child. He had somehow regressed from ROTJ. Throwing away the lightsaber at the start was stupid and initiated the downhill spiral. A real jedi would show more respect to his new guest.
And the death scene...a damp squib.

I am still astounded that Leia bridge explosion scene made the movie. A farce of a scene.

I think you’ve missed the point.
He’s left the Jedi way. He’s closed himself off from the force.
His hand in creating kylo and the destruction that follows leaves him broken and self loathing and totally lost.

That’s the point of his character in the story.
It would have been soooo boring had he just been obi wan 2

Having said that I think he’ll be back in 9 as exactly that and will be a mentor to Rey in instructing her and advising her. And it will fit perfectly in that film. It wouldn’t have worked here.

Nettle Soup

david75 wrote: »

I think you’ve missed the point.
He’s left the Jedi way. He’s closed himself off from the force.
His hand in creating kylo and the destruction that follows leaves him broken and self loathing and totally lost.

That’s the point of his character in the story.
It would have been soooo boring had he just been obi wan 2

Having said that I think he’ll be back in 9 as exactly that and will be a mentor to Rey in instructing her and advising her. And it will fit perfectly in that film. It wouldn’t have worked here.

I didn't miss the point. It was a bad ending to an already poor character direction. He dies on a rock after performing a force facilitated hologram. Nuts. Kylo could kill Snoke and yet did not know he was looking at an unkillable hologram (after shooting a big crater around him).

I have no doubt we will see him again like Yoda but it still seemed all wrong.