Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi *spoilers from Post 2857*

branie2

Force Hologram? It felt like a Force version of Padre Pio aka bilocation to me

Tony EH

david75 wrote: »

I can’t take this guy seriously. He sounds exactly like the bloated obese troll that hates absolutely everything and has to let everyone know, all the time.
He’s so Nauseating.

But he's correct. So are the other two.

david75

"So basically, what we got from the Rey/Luke storyline in The Last Jedi was initially supposed to be the bones for George Lucas’ Episode 7."

I guess George Lucas doesn't understand Luke, either.
http://www.slashfilm.com/george-lucas-sequel-trilogy/

david75

Tony EH wrote: »

But he's correct. So are the other two.

He’s only correct in that you agree with him. I think he’s totally wrong. And this guys only purpose to exist is to make a living being controversial about Star Wars.

Kill the thing you love and milk it at the same time. Weird approach.

Shakey_jake

How good where the praetorian guards though!! Seriously the way they enter attack mode, just awesome!

Foxtrol

I'm not sure I'm overly keen on the lightsaber-light weapons that the guards and some of the storm troopers have. Seems like an excuse to give characters lightsabers without them being Jedi. They're probably worth the add just for how cool the guards looked with their versions in the throne room.

johnpatrick81

david75 wrote: »

He’s only correct in that you agree with him. I think he’s totally wrong. And this guys only purpose to exist is to make a living being controversial about Star Wars.

Kill the thing you love and milk it at the same time. Weird approach.

Did you even watch it? It’s a very fair and educated review of the movie. They essentially just say it’s a bit of a mess, kinda pointless, sporadically interesting, but leaves you a little non plussed bout iX.

Really great review. Funny too! I laughed more in those 45 minutes than the 150 of the movie.

david75

Foxtrol wrote: »

I'm not sure I'm overly keen on the lightsaber-light weapons that the guards and some of the storm troopers have. Seems like an excuse to give characters lightsabers without them being Jedi. They're probably worth the add just for how cool the guards looked with their versions in the throne room.

It’s not new. Grievous’ guards had similar tech in the prequels. Think they’re called vibro blades?
These ones in TLJ wouldn’t be lightsaber tech it’s just the same tech as the gibro blade. Just electricity focused. There’s a page on the guards in the new visual dictionary I’ll try find it. It’s got info on them

expectationlost

if po dameron was demoted was he replaced? should he not have asked his replacement and thus direct superior, what they plan was/

Tony EH

david75 wrote: »

He’s only correct in that you agree with him. I think he’s totally wrong. And this guys only purpose to exist is to make a living being controversial about Star Wars.

Kill the thing you love and milk it at the same time. Weird approach.

Actually, he liked The Force Awakens.

And he's correct, because he's right about the problems that plague The Last Jedi.

The three guys all have valid criticisms, independent of whether I agree with some of them or not.

david75

Yeah because I should listen to someone with a youtube channel to inform my opinion and validate it.

Right.

I’d rather avoid bottom feeder level attempts at criticism thanks all the same.

johnpatrick81

david75 wrote: »

Yeah because I should listen to someone with a youtube channel to inform my opinion and validate it.

Right.

I’d rather avoid bottom feeder level attempts at criticism thanks all the same.

Yet you’d rather entertain repeated random criticisms from nobodies on a forum. Most with far less insight or knowledge of the franchise than the guys in the video.

Right.

pixelburp

The 'Half in the Bag' reviews are many things, but 'bottom feeder' they generally ain't; they may lean towards a tired cynicism when it comes to blockbusters, and without watching the Last Jedi review I'm guessing that's how that one pans out, but they have a very obvious & honest love for film - and especially schlock or simple entertainment (they have an entire series where they watch and celebrate Z-movies) - where they'll call out films on bullsh*t while at the same time praising what works.

The real Bottom Feeders on YouTube are the hype & 'reaction' video culture Red Letter Media routinely lampoons.

Goodshape

david75 wrote: »

I can’t take this guy seriously. He sounds exactly like the bloated obese troll that hates absolutely everything and has to let everyone know, all the time.
He’s so Nauseating.

You're thinking of the Plinkett review series, by the same crowd, which are a bit of a laugh. The 'Half in the Bag' reviews are actual film reviews.

This one, in my opinion, is bang on.

david75

johnpatrick81 wrote: »

Yet you’d rather entertain repeated random criticisms from nobodies on a forum. Most with far less insight or knowledge of the franchise than the guys in the video.

Right.

If they were truly worth listening to they wouldn’t be on YouTube. People’s criticisms and appreciation here is relatable and it’s a dialogue. A YouTube video isn’t.

You want me to debate with them in their comments section? Jesus save us from that bvll****. Cmon now

johnpatrick81

david75 wrote: »

If they were truly worth listening to they wouldn’t be on YouTube. People’s criticisms and appreciation here is relatable and it’s a dialogue. A YouTube video isn’t.

You want me to debate with them in their comments section? Jesus save us from that bvll****. Cmon now

No, nobody is saying to debate them in the comments. You deem their opinion a waste of your time, yet read many here with gusto.

I never knew being on YouTube meant your opinion was automatically trash.

Sad Professor

Might have been posted already but good interview with Johnson in which he reacts to some of the backlash and explains his decision-making process re: Snoke and Luke. He says 80-90% of the responses he's received on Twitter have been very positive which I'm glad to hear, though I still feel bad for him reading all the nasty stuff.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/star-wars-rian-johnson-interview-about-the-last-jedi-fan-backlash-2017-12?r=US&IR=T

And good piece by David Ehrlich on how the film frees Star Wars from its past:

http://www.indiewire.com/2017/12/star-wars-the-last-jedi-new-hope-blockbuster-cinema-1201908623/

pixelburp

I loved it myself, but I can definitely see why it rubbed up some die-hard, nostalgic fans up the wrong way - but that's not to say either that outside of that demographic the film didn't have faults. It had some big ones, but ultimately I think it comes down to how destructive those problems were against all the good the film did. I should also add that the weird shift in humour was definitely one of the bigger issues for me.

But some jarringly misplaced moments of goofball humour weren't enough to derail something that felt like a sweeping & confident backdoor reset of the Star Wars universe: if Force Awakens came off like a comfort blanket through a blatant New Hope retooling, here this felt like a story that wanted to rid itself of some of the mythological baggage that has come to define the franchises grander themes and settings (not to mention some of the more annoyingly withholding mysteries from the Abrams scripted Force Awakens). There was a repeated message here - be it in the subtext or just plain spoken by the characters in one sense or another - about the subversion of myths, the suffocation of living up to past glories, and being obsessed with lineage or legend. In many respects this is what made the humour so intrusive, clumsily bookending these deep & meaningful explorations of the universe's key characters - a moment of clarity interrupted by some whacky humour. The Last Jedi came off like a match taken to the Jedi Legend, yet balanced with a respectful last hurrah for what came before.

Saruhashi

david75 wrote: »

There’s two different ‘campaigns’ from so called true Star Wars fans one hitting sites like RT to drag the score down, another running a petition to have Disney remove the last Jedi from Star Wars. Yes seriously.


Let another lazy, salacious narrative die a fiery death.

"But are audiences actually disliking The Last Jedi? One problem with Rotten Tomatoes’ audience score, along with IMDB, is there’s no vetting process. People don’t need to prove they’ve seen a movie and can vote multiple times through multiple accounts.

Instead, we should look to the movie’s CinemaScore, an America-based exit poll system that scientifically works out an audience score. Movies are marked between A+ and F, the score often accurately hinting at how much a movie will make at the box-office.

The Force Awakens earned an A score, with 90% of all respondents being positive, the average score being 4.5, while Rogue One earned an A, 91% positive feedback and the same score. By comparison, The Last Jedi also won an A CinemaScore, 89% positive feedback, and a five-out-of-five score."

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/star-wars-the-last-jedi-audience-cinemascore-rotten-tomato-user-score-a8116166.html

Seriously? You're taking ANOTHER run at this?

Did you already forget about being duped by some guy on Twitter's "evidence" of bots?

The Force Awakens
93% from 378 critics.
88% from 224,235 users.

The Last Jedi
93% from 313 critics.
55% from 114,675 users.

It's worth noting that TFA has almost twice as many individual user reviews. If there was some kind of "review bombing" campaign in process you'd expect to see unusually massive numbers of reviews for TLJ.

(for reference, Justice League currently has 117,402 user reviews @ 79% and Guardians of the Galaxy 2 has 103,836 user reviews @88%, Batman v Superman has 230,003 user reviews @63% and Captain America; Civil War has 175,030 user reviews @89%)


"BUT on Cinemascore The Last Jedi has an A"

Cinemascore for Transformers - Dark of the Moon = A
Cinemascore for Tyler Perrys Boo 2, A Madea Halloween = A-
Cinemascore for Jurassic World = A

The Last Jedi is in good company there.

Why can't you just accept that loads of people don't like the movie? You think if you can prove that the low rating is fixed by haters then Princess Leia flying through space will stop being one of the most cringe-worthy moments in cinema history?

pixelburp

Plus, anyone else feel the script cribbed a little from the Battlestar Galactica episode '33'? It was probably a coincidence, but I couldn't help but see the similarities between the Rebellions' limping away from the unshakeable First Order & the problems faced by the BSG's fleet in having to jump every 33 minutes (side, side note: that whole episode is still to me one of the greatest episodes in TV, ever. A masterclass of tension and drama in an episodic, serial drama)

Goodshape

pixelburp wrote: »

Plus, anyone else feel the script cribbed a little from the Battlestar Galactica episode '33'?

Yep:

Goodshape wrote: »

I thought they were going straight for the '33' episode of BSG when mentioned being tracked through hyperspace. That was a fantastic and tense episode of that show.

expectationlost

wouldn't an anti-midichlorien vacination be the best way to balance the force

pixelburp

Also also: I think I'm going against the grain here, but I loved Rose. Her whole arc was a little useless true (indeed, her sister had a greater impact on the film really, and if I'm honest was genuinely hoping she would survive her increasingly suicidal attempts to get the bombs to drop), but what I think I loved was that for the first time in the franchise, we got a truly ordinary person as a main character.

Not someone tethered to the Skywalker mythology or burdened by history; not some exceptional soldier / pilot / spy; not a clone defector or a victim of circumstance - just an ordinary engineer presumably trying to do her small part in what must have appeared to be an impossibly large series of events beyond her control. In many respects, Rose is the heart of the rebellion.

Goodshape wrote: »

Yep:

Great minds! Might have made a more exciting middle-act I guess if they fully copied '33' and went for the full 'cat and mouse' narrative, complete with possible sleeper agents...

falinn merking

Saruhashi wrote: »

Why can't you just accept that loads of people don't like the movie? You think if you can prove that the low rating is fixed by haters then Princess Leia flying through space will stop being one of the most cringe-worthy moments in cinema history?

I really enjoyed The Last Jedi but unlike some I do accept that many did not like it.
And Leia flying through space was not it's high point to be sure.:)

brevity

pixelburp wrote: »

The 'Half in the Bag' reviews are many things, but 'bottom feeder' they generally ain't; they may lean towards a tired cynicism when it comes to blockbusters, and without watching the Last Jedi review I'm guessing that's how that one pans out, but they have a very obvious & honest love for film - and especially schlock or simple entertainment (they have an entire series where they watch and celebrate Z-movies) - where they'll call out films on bullsh*t while at the same time praising what works.

The real Bottom Feeders on YouTube are the hype & 'reaction' video culture Red Letter Media routinely lampoons.

I have great time for them and regularly watch their videos - they just seemed fed up in this one which I was kinda surprised by.

It kinda echos Rian’s contempt for certain aspects of Star Wars

david75

Saruhashi wrote: »

Seriously? You're taking ANOTHER run at this?

Did you already forget about being duped by some guy on Twitter's "evidence" of bots?

The Force Awakens
93% from 378 critics.
88% from 224,235 users.

The Last Jedi
93% from 313 critics.
55% from 114,675 users.

It's worth noting that TFA has almost twice as many individual user reviews. If there was some kind of "review bombing" campaign in process you'd expect to see unusually massive numbers of reviews for TLJ.

(for reference, Justice League currently has 117,402 user reviews @ 79% and Guardians of the Galaxy 2 has 103,836 user reviews @88%, Batman v Superman has 230,003 user reviews @63% and Captain America; Civil War has 175,030 user reviews @89%)


"BUT on Cinemascore The Last Jedi has an A"

Cinemascore for Transformers - Dark of the Moon = A
Cinemascore for Tyler Perrys Boo 2, A Madea Halloween = A-
Cinemascore for Jurassic World = A

The Last Jedi is in good company there.

Why can't you just accept that loads of people don't like the movie? You think if you can prove that the low rating is fixed by haters then Princess Leia flying through space will stop being one of the most cringe-worthy moments in cinema history?

Why are you campaigning to convince people they’re wrong for liking it though?
What kind of purpose does that serve? I just wanna talk about the the story and the film as a Star Wars fan. Faults and all.

If I don’t like something I don’t spend countless hours ranting about it talking down to people about why they’re wrong for liking it and pulling bullsh!t RT stats out as if that magically makes the argument valid.(it really doesn’t. Streisand effect in fact) How many different ways can you say you don’t like something before it gets obnoxious? Or the one same way repeatedly in your case.
You don’t like it. I get it. I do. You’re not going to convince me otherwise by haunting my every post on it. So can you not? Thanks.

expectationlost

Sad Professor wrote: »

Might have been posted already but good interview with Johnson in which he reacts to some of the backlash and explains his decision-making process re: Snoke and Luke. He says 80-90% of the responses he's received on Twitter have been very positive which I'm glad to hear, though I still feel bad for him reading all the nasty stuff.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/star-wars-rian-johnson-interview-about-the-last-jedi-fan-backlash-2017-12?r=US&IR=T

And good piece by David Ehrlich on how the film frees Star Wars from its past:

http://www.indiewire.com/2017/12/star-wars-the-last-jedi-new-hope-blockbuster-cinema-1201908623/

dimissing the snoke backstory would have been ok if Reys story had been better, why would Rey join Kylo Ren?

Saruhashi

david75 wrote: »

Why are you campaigning to convince people they’re wrong for liking it though?
What kind of purpose does that serve? I just wanna talk about the the story and the film as a Star Wars fan. Faults and all.

If I don’t like something I don’t spend countless hours ranting about it talking down to people about why they’re wrong for liking it and pulling bullsh!t RT stats out as if that magically makes the argument valid.(it really doesn’t. Streisand effect in fact) How many different ways can you say you don’t like something before it gets obnoxious? Or the one same way repeatedly in your case.
You don’t like it. I get it. I do. You’re not going to convince me otherwise by haunting my every post on it. So can you not? Thanks.

I'm not saying I don't like it though.

I am saying that there is no proof of some conspiracy to drive the audience score down.

You have tried 4 or 5 times now to show that Russians or bots or trolls are responsible for the low rating.

I am saying you are wrong and I am showing you why you are wrong.

You shared that incorrect tweet about the "bot" putting negative Star Wars reviews on the wrong movie. I showed you the same movie had positive Star Wars reviews on it too and you didn't even acknowledge you got it wrong.

You just came back a few hours later and took another run at it.

david75

expectationlost wrote: »

dimissing the snoke backstory would have been ok if Reys story had been better, why would Rey join Kylo Ren?

I don’t think we’re finished with Reys parents in the story. Are we?
Imagine she had joined kylo after killed by Snoke.
That would have ramped up the hate for this one a whole lot more

johnny_ultimate

pixelburp wrote: »

Also also: I think I'm going against the grain here, but I loved Rose. Her whole arc was a little useless true (indeed, her sister had a greater impact on the film really, and if I'm honest was genuinely hoping she would survive her increasingly suicidal attempts to get the bombs to drop), but what I think I loved was that for the first time in the franchise, we got a truly ordinary person as a main character.

Not someone tethered to the Skywalker mythology or burdened by history; not some exceptional soldier / pilot / spy; not a clone defector or a victim of circumstance - just an ordinary engineer presumably trying to do her small part in what must have appeared to be an impossibly large series of events beyond her control. In many respects, Rose is the heart of the rebellion.

Yeah I think of all the various criticisms against the film, Rose is a character who gets a hard time I don't think is deserved, or particularly unfairly dismissed as mere diversity pandering. I'm sure someone could/will argue she's thinly drawn as a character (I think her characterisation is absolutely solid given the screentime available - strongly defined motivation, consistent ideals, clear resolution), but Tran is a bit of a force of nature here. Tales from the set suggest she went in 110%, and given what's on screen I have no reason to doubt that. Her charm & commitment alone would sell her character if the writing didn't keep up.

Which isn't even getting into the fact that the film without her would make a lot less sense. None of the inherited characters from TFA and certainly not the original trilogy can properly communicate what she does. She is in some key ways the film's beating heart - in a film about demythologising heroes and casting a wider net than just the 'heroes of legends', Rose is the personification of that. Appropriate that she's the one who asks Finn / us to 'look closer'.