Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi *spoilers from Post 2857*

Osmosis Jones

My only problem with Rose is how she stopped Finn by crashing into him, which ended up having no consequences at all. Finn had to sacrifice himself to save the rest of them, she stops him from sacrificing himself, but there's no collateral whatsoever.

david75

Saruhashi wrote: »

I'm not saying I don't like it though.

I am saying that there is no proof of some conspiracy to drive the audience score down.

You have tried 4 or 5 times now to show that Russians or bots or trolls are responsible for the low rating.

I am saying you are wrong and I am showing you why you are wrong.

You shared that incorrect tweet about the "bot" putting negative Star Wars reviews on the wrong movie. I showed you the same movie had positive Star Wars reviews on it too and you didn't even acknowledge you got it wrong.

You just came back a few hours later and took another run at it.

Oh god. It’s apparent bots are being used by who knows to affect the films ratings both ways. I don’t care. As well as two active campaigns online against it as covered in that article above and others. It’s now a matter of record. And I still don’t care. It doesn’t affect me or any enjoyment I have either way. You have a fixation with stats and RT good for you. I really don’t care. It’s a thread about Star Wars. Really all I do care talking about in this instance.
Happy to talk with you about Star Wars. all day. Zero interest in talking about reaction to it online. It makes no difference to me. It clearly does to you. But I have no interest in listening to it tbh.
Second or third post explaining this to you. Maybe I’ll just copy and paste it like you’re so fond of doing:)

Gbear

The fact that a few of the criticisms of Rose on this thread have lead by calling her fat, as if that had any bearing on her character, reveals more about the people who made those comments than about the film or her character.

Foxtrol wrote: »

I'm not sure I'm overly keen on the lightsaber-light weapons that the guards and some of the storm troopers have. Seems like an excuse to give characters lightsabers without them being Jedi. They're probably worth the add just for how cool the guards looked with their versions in the throne room.

It's a long standing notion in the EU.

The alternative is that Rey and KR just massacre them.

It was definitely worth it to see the fight.

I think most of the criticisms I've seen are similar to this.
Just nitpicks that had no bearing on the film to me.

If you go into a film wanting to hate it you'll get caught up trying to spot these things and that's what I'm seeing a lot of. If you're willing to let go and enjoy the ride you won't care.

It doesn't matter about the hyperspace thing with Laura dern. It doesn't matter about there happening to be another slicer in Finn and Rose's prison cell, it doesn't matter that the film contrives to have 3 separate plot points all converge exactly at the time when the fleet gets exploded by the suicide attack, it doesn't matter that the lasers from the ships bend towards the cruiser a bit, it doesn't matter that Laura Dern witholds her plan.

It's much the same as how the Star Destroyer didn't fire on the escape pod in Ep. IV, presumably to save on lasers, or how a giant 1 mile long worm can survive in an asteroid, and how they flew down into it without encountering any organs, flesh, a digestive system, or anything else, or how asteroid fileds aren't a thing, for that matter, or how they managed to get to Cloud City in less than a geological time frame despite having only sublight drives, or how space teddy bears defeated the Empire, or the repeated sucidal blunders of the Empire in how they operate their giant battle stations, etc, etc.

None of these kinds of things are plot holes. Not everything has to be completely explicit.
You'd wonder are people just not capable of enjoying films any more.

I'd take most of the criticisms from RLM as reasonable, but as with Rogue 1 and TFA, I disagree with their general conclusions and I think they've ended up getting the wrong end of the stick.

david75

Gbear wrote: »

The fact that a few of the criticisms of Rose on this thread have lead by calling her fat, as if that had any bearing on her character, reveals more about the people who made those comments then about the film or her character.



It's a long standing notion in the EU.

The alternative is that Rey and KR just massacre them.

It was definitely worth it to see the fight.

I think most of the criticisms I've seen are similar to this.
Just nitpicks that had no bearing on the film to me.

If you go into a film wanting to hate it you'll get caught up trying to spot these things and that's what I'm seeing a lot of. If you're willing to let go and enjoy the ride you won't care.

It doesn't matter about the hyperspace thing with Laura dern. It doesn't matter about there happening to be another slicer in Finn and Rose's prison cell, it doesn't matter that the film contrives to have 3 separate plot points all converge exactly at the time when the fleet gets exploded by the suicide attack, it doesn't matter that the lasers from the ships bend towards the cruiser a bit, it doesn't matter that Laura Dern witholds her plan.

It's much the same as how the Star Destroyer didn't fire on the escape pod in Ep. IV, presumably to save on lasers, or how a giant 1 mile long worm can survive in an asteroid, and how they flew down into it without encountering any organs, flesh, a digestive system, or anything else, or how asteroid fileds aren't a thing, for that matter, or how they managed to get to Cloud City in less than a geological time frame despite having only sublight drives, or how space teddy bears defeated the Empire, or the repeated sucidal blunders of the Empire in how they operate their giant battle stations, etc, etc.

None of these kinds of things are plot holes. Not everything has to be completely explicit.
You'd wonder are people just not capable of enjoying films any more.

I'd take most of the criticisms from RLM as reasonable, but as with Rogue 1 and TFA, I disagree with their general conclusions and I think they've ended up getting the wrong end of the stick.

This bears little relation to regular people just not liking the film. It is however ranting endless hatred to a whole new totally unnecessary level.

https://twitter.com/swankmotron/status/943171540312453120

Wedwood

A lot of the disappointment seems to be from those fans who wanted to see the all powerful Luke Skywalker that was portrayed in the now defunct 'extended universe' stuff.

I liked the way TLJ instead gave us a broken Luke who in his final moments summons one final heroic effort that wows friend and foe alike and becomes a legend revered by the kids of the Galaxy.

Some people are complaining it takes away from the triumph of ROTJ, but I think this portrayal is far more emotional and powerful and elevates Luke to a level never achieved by any other Jedi.

It also sets the scene for his intervention to herald the full restoration of the Jedi Order by Rey in Episode 9, which will give an epic finale to the entire saga and tie the three trilogies together.

What's the odds that kid at the end of TLJ becomes one of the first new padawans in the restored Jedi Order.

PhiloCypher

Foxtrol wrote: »

Think they specifically mentioned that they were too close for a jump. I don't think anywhere in a Star Wars movie where we've seen such a short jump.

I agree they could have picked a better basis but you have yet to punch a hole in it so it is far from nonsense.

Yet the Raddus does just that, right into Snokes ship .

david75

PLus on RLM They are slavishly devoted to a certain idea of what Star Wars is and what they demand it should be. I Can’t stand his sidekicks on the review show. They are never insightful and walking embodiments of nerd fanboy destructive privelage

Goodshape

Gbear wrote: »

If you go into a film wanting to hate it you'll get caught up trying to spot these things and that's what I'm seeing a lot of. If you're willing to let go and enjoy the ride you won't care.

I certainly didn't want to hate it. I think I just expected a fun smooth ride if nothing else. And I'm not even talking about plot points, TFA had it's share of faults in that regard too – but it was a very enjoyable watch, well paced, and exciting. TLJ felt, to me, like THINGS HAPPENING!!!, very little of which amounted to anything substantial, and the tonal shifts from comedy to, what I think was supposed to be, tense drama was very jarring.

To be honest though too, I did see it in the LieMAX in Dublin, with those feckin' 3D glasses and not too many rows from the front, and I think that really didn't help with the enjoyment factor. 3D needs to get in the damn sea already.

If I do go see it again it'll be in a comfortable, decent, 2D screen.

It doesn't matter about the hyperspace thing with Laura dern. It doesn't matter about there happening to be another slicer in Finn and Rose's prison cell, it doesn't matter that the film contrives to have 3 separate plot points all converge exactly at the time when the fleet gets exploded by the suicide attack, it doesn't matter that the lasers from the ships bend towards the cruiser a bit, it doesn't matter that Laura Dern witholds her plan.

Well... that's kinda the problem . None of it mattered a damn (outside the Luke, Ray, Kylo stuff which I did enjoy). It was just stuff happening.

pixelburp

david75 wrote: »

PLus on RLM They are slavishly devoted to a certain idea of what Star Wars is and what they demand it should be. I Can’t stand his sidekicks on the review show. They are never insightful and walking embodiments of nerd fanboy destructive privelage

If you think RLM constitute nerd privilege you really live a sheltered YouTube life They are as honest and contradictory as anyone here, and of all their faults, being fanboys ain't one of them. They consistently get flack on YouTube comments precisely because they don't fawn over certain properties .

Osmosis Jones

What's funny is that RLM fanboys are as unbearable as the fans of any of the movies they critique. BOTW is a brilliant series though.

Sad Professor

pixelburp wrote: »

If you think RLM constitute nerd privilege you really live a sheltered YouTube life They are as honest and contradictory as anyone here, and of all their faults, being fanboys ain't one of them. They consistently get flack on YouTube comments precisely because they don't fawn over certain properties .

So fanboys love everything about the property? I don't think that's right.

alchemist33

I feel like I'm the only person who doesn't care about the humour. It wasn't LOL-funny but it didn't fall flat either. In fact I probably got some giggles from it. But I certainly didn't feel it was distracting or took away from the drama. And it wasn't remotely as prominent an MCU films, particularly GOTG which I've seen mentioned a lot.

Tony EH

david75 wrote: »

Yeah because I should listen to someone with a youtube channel to inform my opinion and validate it.

Right.

I’d rather avoid bottom feeder level attempts at criticism thanks all the same.

Who said that?

Tony EH

pixelburp wrote: »

Also also: I think I'm going against the grain here, but I loved Rose. Her whole arc was a little useless true (indeed, her sister had a greater impact on the film really, and if I'm honest was genuinely hoping she would survive her increasingly suicidal attempts to get the bombs to drop), but what I think I loved was that for the first time in the franchise, we got a truly ordinary person as a main character.

Sure, she's "ordinary" and that's great.

But she's pointless, belonging to an utterly redundant side plot, with an incredibly smushy finale...and that's not.

Seriously her crashing into Finn while he's on some suicide run, gushing some ****e and then dying/going unconscious is something a 9 year old girl would write.

Fucking terrible.

david75

That moment when Luke is sitting n the dark on the falcon and R2 wakes up and he goes R2??

So many feels. They had to have lifted that audio from the OT. It sounds like young excited Luke Skywalker. And that entire scene of them is just powerful

But either way. .

Hamill ****ing brought it in this film. He’s brilliant.

fryup

the thing is..with carrie fisher passing away i thought to myself what a fitting way to mark her passing by having her float away into space...and then they had to spoil it by doing a mary poppins and have her come to life ...it looked daft, why did they do it?

McDermotX

Tony EH wrote: »

Sure, she's "ordinary" and that's great.

But she's pointless, belonging to an utterly redundant side plot, with an incredibly smushy finale...and that's not.

Seriously her crashing into Finn while he's on some suicide run, gushing some ****e and then dying/going unconscious is something a 9 year old girl would write.

Fucking terrible.

That is a truly dreadful moment - one which beggars belief that it was allowed to be part of the film. It would have been an ideal way for the redundant character of Finn to go out in a good way. Wouldn't even have have had to substantially change further events with Luke facing down Kylo etc
Would have been a powerful way for a drawn out character to end - but the removal of a Rey-Finn reunion precluded any idea around that.

david75 wrote: »

That moment when Luke is sitting n the dark on the falcon and R2 wakes up and he goes R2??
So many feels. They had to have lifted that audio from the OT. It sounds like young excited Luke Skywalker. And that entire scene of them is just powerful

But either way. .

Hamill ****ing brought it in this film. He’s brilliant.

By comparison, that is one of the great scenes of the last couple films, with even the timbre of Luke's voice absolutely nigh-on perfect.
Even contained one of the few bits of humour that actually landed with me - 'hey...watch your language' to R2




It really is a film of moments - some fantastic, some heartwarming, some dreadful, some cringeworthy.
It is the definition of a mixed bag.

Foxtrol

Gbear wrote: »

The fact that a few of the criticisms of Rose on this thread have lead by calling her fat, as if that had any bearing on her character, reveals more about the people who made those comments than about the film or her character.



It's a long standing notion in the EU.

The alternative is that Rey and KR just massacre them.

It was definitely worth it to see the fight.

I think most of the criticisms I've seen are similar to this.
Just nitpicks that had no bearing on the film to me.

If you go into a film wanting to hate it you'll get caught up trying to spot these things and that's what I'm seeing a lot of. If you're willing to let go and enjoy the ride you won't care.

It doesn't matter about the hyperspace thing with Laura dern. It doesn't matter about there happening to be another slicer in Finn and Rose's prison cell, it doesn't matter that the film contrives to have 3 separate plot points all converge exactly at the time when the fleet gets exploded by the suicide attack, it doesn't matter that the lasers from the ships bend towards the cruiser a bit, it doesn't matter that Laura Dern witholds her plan.

It's much the same as how the Star Destroyer didn't fire on the escape pod in Ep. IV, presumably to save on lasers, or how a giant 1 mile long worm can survive in an asteroid, and how they flew down into it without encountering any organs, flesh, a digestive system, or anything else, or how asteroid fileds aren't a thing, for that matter, or how they managed to get to Cloud City in less than a geological time frame despite having only sublight drives, or how space teddy bears defeated the Empire, or the repeated sucidal blunders of the Empire in how they operate their giant battle stations, etc, etc.

None of these kinds of things are plot holes. Not everything has to be completely explicit.
You'd wonder are people just not capable of enjoying films any more.

I'd take most of the criticisms from RLM as reasonable, but as with Rogue 1 and TFA, I disagree with their general conclusions and I think they've ended up getting the wrong end of the stick.

I've stated that I enjoyed the movie, someone mentioned the guards and I said I wasn't sure if I was overly into the faux lightsabers.

Agree with you completely on the rest and have been arguing similar though usually not as eloquently.

Blackhorse Slim

I think the biggest problem here was that TFA set up a"bunch of cool stuff" that made no sense in terms of the Star Wars saga, and couldn't possibly be pulled together in a satisfying way. If you're only going to tell part of a story in one movie you really have to have the rest of the story mapped out or it's going to fall flat.
You need to either tell a different story with each movie (e.g. Indiana Jones) or tell one long consistent tale (Lord of the Rings). When you set up stuff in one movie without any thought to how it will be resolved, and it subsequently gets dropped, ignored or waved away people feel cheated, and angry.At least people who are invested in the story and the characters do.
Lucas somehow pulled it off after the success of the first Star Wars movie, but these were his characters, his vision. And he got lucky. JJ was never going to be able to do it, and another director coming in after Ep VII had no chance. Johnson knew this, so he made no attempt and just told his own story. Probably the right thing to do, from his point of view, but the fan reaction is understandable.
I won't be waiting for Ep IX. These aren't the film's I'm looking for.

Tony EH

McDermotX wrote: »

That is a truly dreadful moment - one which beggars belief that it was allowed to be part of the film. It would have been an ideal way for the redundant character of Finn to go out in a good way. Wouldn't even have have had to substantially change further events with Luke facing down Kylo etc
Would have been a powerful way for a drawn out character to end - but the removal of a Rey-Finn reunion precluded any idea around that.

If there's one thing Disney don't care about, re:Star Wars, it's reunions of characters.

Look, Finn's story is done. He's served his purpose. He's was an audience usher, of sorts, into this new trilogy. But there's nothing for him to do now, except go off on redundant tangents.

Rose was put in so he'd have someone to talk to, as someone on here said.

These characters might as well have just shot themselves in face and no part of the story would have really changed.

Finn really should have died at the end of TFA at the hands of Kylo Ren.

Foxtrol

PhiloCypher wrote: »

Yet the Raddus does just that, right into Snokes ship .

But that was a suicide mission. We've no idea if that was something that was ever attempted before as it wasn't even her original planned suicide mission and we've never heard of someone using the hyperdrive as a weapon.

It is nit picking. The first order had no reason to waste ships or energy when their safer plan looked like it was going to work.

geecee

Watched TLJ for the second time tonight... hoping it would be better on second viewing as some have suggested....

Well.... It wasn't! In fact it was worse! Found myself fidgeting and yawning all the way through the middle third.

Some of the creatures in the casino scene were like something out of sharknado.

The only thing I like about this time around was spotting Adrian Edmonson's character... haven't seen much talk of him on this thread but thought he made an excellent cocky Imperial navy Character... and is probably Hux's successor once Kylo finally bashes his head in!

I would also love to have seen more of the guy in the white Krennic type uniform who is in the party that arrested Fin and Rose on Snokes ship

Foxtrol

Tony EH wrote: »

If there's one thing Disney don't care about, re:Star Wars, it's reunions of characters.

Look, Finn's story is done. He's served his purpose. He's was an audience usher, of sorts, into this new trilogy. But there's nothing for him to do now, except go off on redundant tangents.

Rose was put in so he'd have someone to talk to, as someone on here said.

These characters might as well have just shot themselves in face and no part of the story would have really changed.

Finn really should have died at the end of TFA at the hands of Kylo Ren.

I wouldn't have complained if he died at the end of TFA but I think they needed him around as he was the only person outside of Leia who can speak that knew or gave a crap about Rey. Depending on how they decided the story would go he could have been required as a potential driver go get/help her route or to integrate her back into the rebellion group.

david75

McDermotX wrote: »

That is a truly dreadful moment - one which beggars belief that it was allowed to be part of the film. It would have been an ideal way for the redundant character of Finn to go out in a good way. Wouldn't even have have had to substantially change further events with Luke facing down Kylo etc
Would have been a powerful way for a drawn out character to end - but the removal of a Rey-Finn reunion precluded any idea around that.



By comparison, that is one of the great scenes of the last couple films, with even the timbre of Luke's voice absolutely nigh-on perfect.
Even contained one of the few bits of humour that actually landed with me - 'hey...watch your language' to R2




It really is a film of moments - some fantastic, some heartwarming, some dreadful, some cringeworthy.
It is the definition of a mixed bag.

A film that manages to tick every single box from both extremes, the supremely fantastic to the utterly ridiculous.

For doing that alone it’s a new step in storytelling and cinema.


Still can’t get over him throwing the away saber over his shoulder though. Story aside Playing that moment for comedy when it could have been even more important to depict it any other way is a huge dent. Just drop it and say no. Walk off. . And I say that and I love the film.

But it’s in there. Nothing we can do.

Tony EH

Foxtrol wrote: »

I wouldn't have complained if he died at the end of TFA but I think they needed him around as he was the only person outside of Leia who can speak that knew or gave a crap about Rey. Depending on how they decided the story would go he could have been required as a potential driver go get/help her route or to integrate her back into the rebellion group.

But Rey doesn't need any of that.

At the end of TFA, the folk of the resistance are all waving goodbye. So they all know where she's gone and how important a mission she's been sent on.

So, it's not like nobody knows her or where she is.

Plus, if hugs at the end were needed, Leia is still there (somehow).

Foxtrol

Tony EH wrote: »

But Rey doesn't need any of that.

At the end of TFA, the folk of the resistance are all waving goodbye. So they all know where she's gone and how important a mission she's been sent on.

So, it's not like nobody knows her or where she is.

Plus, if hugs at the end were needed, Leia is still there (somehow).

Which speaking main character besides Leia had interaction with her previously?

Wedwood

Oh, just to add, that sequence of TLJ where the First Order were chasing down the last of the Resistance ships was brilliant. The amount of twists and turns throughout was great and the finale where Holdo turns her ship into the First Order fleet and presses hyperspace was as good as any sequence in the entire saga.

You genuinely felt Leia was going to be finished off after being outsmarted until Holdo plays one final card.

Just to say my initial reaction to seeing TLJ was I wasn't quite sure I liked what I'd just seen as it more or less broke every expectation I had having watched Star Wars for the last 40 years. But over the day or two afterwards, I found I can't wait to see this again precisely because it broke with those expectations.

Tony EH

david75 wrote: »

Still can’t get over him throwing the away saber over his shoulder though. Story aside Playing that moment for comedy when it could have been even more important to depict it any other way is a huge dent. Just drop it and say no. Walk off. . And I say that and I love the film.

But it’s in there. Nothing we can do.

Stangely enough, I have zero problem with that. I actually don't even take it as a "comedy" moment.

He's chucking it into the ocean behind him (or at least thinks he is). He's done with all the Jedi rubbish.

I kind of snorted and thought it turned expectations on their head, but it didn't take me out of the film, like Poe's on hold crap, porgs flying into windows, nonsense on Canto Bight, etc.

conorhal

Well.. I just saw the movie...

If it has any theme, it's Kylo Ren's, 'burn it all down'.
Clearly, Disney's mandate to Johnson was 'burn it all down' so that we can start from scratch and pump out a couple of these a year, unencumbered by it's history or fan base until it runs out of steam. In that regard he did a good job.

I'll say this for the film, it gave me a new appreciation for the hack show that was The Force Awakens that's for sure. I'd heard some people say they were were disappointed with the film and so I kind of expected another uninspired film like TFA, but this was a complete sh1tshow from start to finish. Jesus, it opens with a prank call to a star destroyer that ends with a 'yo mamma' joke and it wen't down hill from there.

This wasn't just a bad Starwars movie, this was easily the worst film, and waste of money I've seen all year. Certiantly I've no interest in the next episode.

Tony EH

Foxtrol wrote: »

Which speaking main character besides Leia had interaction with her previously?

Who cares though?

If that's all Finn is worth, it just speaks even more to the redunancy of the character.