Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi *spoilers from Post 2857*

Kiith

Leia's space flying bit was pretty stupid. I guess if you can force pull something, you should be able to force move yourself in space? And you don't die immediately in space, as i discovered recently (not from personal experience thankfully :pac:), so i guess she could have survived.

I had assumed Leia died in the original script, and it was re-written after Carrie Fischer's death. But i'm guessing that's not the case.

Tony EH

While you can survive in space for a very short period (and if you have no air in your lungs), the violence of the explosion on the bridge, coupled with being sucked into the vacuum would probably have smashed every bone in her body and crushed a number of her organs into the bargain.

Of course, physics has never been a strong point of Star Wars. However, it's the sheer absurd nature of the concept and execution of that scene that's woeful. Plus, it's absolutely and completely unnecessary.

Leia could simply have been injured on the bridge and brought directly to sickbay.

Or, she survives the bridge attack and sacrifices herself in the hyperspace rocket attack. No need for Holdo.

That gives her a brilliant send off (the best of all the OT characters), eliminates and unnecessary character and wipes out one of the worst scenes ever committed to film.

DrWu

Yep that was cringe! I could live with the idea but the execution was poor. I agree it would have been a perfect send off and lent more weight to Ren's decision not to fire. But then we wouldn't have that great scene at the end with Leia and force luke. Pity it wasn't just filmed better.

Tony EH wrote: »

While you can survive in space for a very short period (and if you have no air in your lungs), the violence of the explosion on the bridge, coupled with being sucked into the vacuum would probably have smashed every bone in her body and crushed a number of her organs into the bargain.

Of course, physics has never been a strong point of Star Wars. However, it's the sheer absurd nature of the concept and execution of that scene that's woeful. Plus, it's absolutely and completely unnecessary.

Leia could simply have been injured on the bridge and brought directly to sickbay.

Or, she survives the bridge attack and sacrifices herself in the hyperspace rocket attack. No need for Holdo.

That gives her a brilliant send off (the best of all the OT characters), eliminates and unnecessary character and wipes out one of the worst scenes ever committed to film.

The Nal

This EMPIRE STRIKES BACK movie doesn’t make any sense at all. So they blow up the Death Star but the Empire’s just like NOT AFFECTED? They can still show up anywhere and do anything? Glad so many rebel pilots sacrificed themselves in A NEW HOPE, I guess. Plus uuuhhhh I don’t think humans can survive in the arctic overnight with just a coat or some animal intestines. It’s called Biology 101. And since when can smugglers use lightsabers?? Oh and I guess now we have ghosts in this universe too. Ugh. To make no mention of the tiny insane frog person who’s apparently the galaxy’s GREATEST JEDI MASTER?! Gimme a break. And while Luke is training, Han and Leia (who have NO IMPACT on the overall plot) get captured in like two seconds, so when Luke goes to rescue them, he’s done his massive grand Jedi training in, what, forty-eight hours?! Makes no sense. And don’t even get me started on this “I am your father” horse****. A whole entire galaxy and Vader JUST HAPPENED to be passing over his freaking ESTRANGED SON’S home planet when he lost the Death Star plans one movie earlier??? SMH. And OHMYGOD the ultimate cheap-ass-machina when Leia just kinda INTUITS they should turn around and go pick up dangling Luke. The franchise has officially jumped the shark. Hoping Marquand can turn it around for Episode VI, but I’m not holding my breath.

Foxtrol

DrWu wrote: »

Yep that was cringe! I could live with the idea but the execution was poor. I agree it would have been a perfect send off and lent more weight to Ren's decision not to fire. But then we wouldn't have that great scene at the end with Leia and force luke. Pity it wasn't just filmed better.

I wonder if they originally had a plan for her to use her force powers at some point in IX and wanted to give the audience a demonstration of them as we'd only seen them in a very small way previously. Either way it should have been done better or the scene removed after her death and just have her ending up in the sickbay.

david75

Hector Savage wrote: »

Hopefully!

There’s definitely more goin on with Snoke. From the visual dictionary, about the pool with the mosaic in it which seems to be a force amplifier of some kind. Looks like Snoke or one of his species.

‘It’s an image of the prime Jedi, first of the order, in a state of meditation’

Foxtrol

david75 wrote: »

There’s definitely more goin on with Snoke. From the visual dictionary, about the pool with the mosaic in it which seems to be a force amplifier of some kind. Looks like Snoke or one of his species.

‘It’s an image of the prime Jedi, first of the order, in a state of meditation’

I'd suspect we'll hear more about him at some point but will possibly have to wait until the next trilogy.

david75

There’s a Solo poster

https://twitter.com/realronhoward/status/943308403174096896

Saruhashi

Foxtrol wrote: »

It's the hyperbole that is the issue for me anyway. If people come out saying 'it's a jarring uncomfortable and awkward mess because of x, y, z' but in the same breath saying you like movies that have the same 'x, y, z' in them it makes no sense. No one is calling you a liar but what I'm trying to understand is how these issues can absolutely ruin a movie (or kill a franchise in some cases) for you in one instance but be overlooked in another.

For me anyway I would say that the prequels inadvertently taught people who previously never cared that much how to pick apart a movie.

As soon as they added "Episode IV - A New Hope" to the original Star Wars there was a question of what happened in Episodes 1, 2 and 3.

My experience of the originals was not that these are movies on which you can do a post-mortem examination. They were legendary movies and growing up you were exposed to them and the massive impact they had on western pop culture. There was never an "i'm going to pick this apart" aspect because there was no platform really on which to do that.

Episodes 1, 2 and 3 came along at pretty much exactly the wrong time. It was 16 years after the originals and it was just when the internet was starting to grow exponentially.

We packed into the theater to watch episode one and came out thinking "what the F did we just witness"? In the mid 80s to early 90s you may have just gone home and talked about it with friends for an hour and then move on while remembering that podracing and darth maul were awesome.

Instead the Internet provided a platform to comprehensively answer "what the F did we just witness" and that was the fate of the prequels.

Put a ten year old in front of the prequels and my experience is that they will enjoy the hell out of those 3 films. Maybe even watching them again and again for a few years. I've seen it first hand.

Then expose those kids to The Internet and watch the online community tell them "see that thing you love? well it's total f**** *** ******* ***** ****** *********". That's the way it goes.

So Star Wars takes a break for a decade or so and then JJ and Disney come in and they have a job to do. They have to make a Star Wars that kicks off a new successful era BUT they have to avoid making something that is seen as just as bad as, or worse than, the prequels.

They punt all of good old George's ideas into the bin and come up with something safe. Something to remind people of the good Star Wars and to redeem, to some extent, the bad Star Wars.

Job done, in my opinion. TFA is lesser than the OT but greater than the prequels. The title of movie might as well be Star Wars Episode VII - Do You Remember STAR WARS? To which the audience response seemed to overwhelmingly be "Hell yeah I remember Star Wars".

Rogue One is kind of the same. "Hey, do you want to know how the Death Star plans were stolen?" Yes. Yes, I do. It looks like Star Wars, feels like Star Wars etc etc.

The problem is that TLJ was supposed to carry on the story and it kind of didn't. I totally get that it's meant to be a deconstruction or a subversion of the Star Wars tropes but it just comes across as WAY too goofy and way too self-aware. Like it's constantly giving a wink to the audience. I GET IT! You are a Star Wars movie but you are also a commentary on Star Wars movies!

It's a movie that is not quite as smart as it thinks it is and this is a bit of a disaster in the context of Star Wars cos it might not be that much of a "smart" story anyway. It's a dumb movie trying to pretend it's hinting at something deeper when you can totally still see that it's dumb.

It has all the same elements of the originals that I like. It has some of the same elements as TFA and RO, which I like.

The thing with The Last Jedi is that despite having those similar elements it's not "the same". It has elements of Star Wars in it BUT it has also added it's own weird twists and turns. Those differences just didn't work, for me.

I could show my grandmother an episode of Friends and she'll laugh away at it . Then show her an episode of Family Guy and she won't laugh at all. I don't get to then turn round and say "what the hell grandma! you seem to like comedy but then I show you more comedy and you don't like it!? I don't understand you!"

The thing I would say is that there are different "flavors" of the various commonalities between the originals and TLJ. Yes, they both have moments that they play for laughs but these moments "taste" different here in TLJ. It's the same with dialogue or plot or even plot holes.

You could point out the similarities between Captain Phasma and Boba Fett and I would say yes but Boba Fett just appeals to me more, for some reason. I don't know why, it just feels different.

Strawberries are 92% water and watermelons are 92% water but I much prefer strawberries. Not only do I not know why, I'll be damned if you are going to force me to eat watermelon!

My point is that TFA and RO are basically "remember Star Wars" and I really love the taste of that.

TLJ is basically "remember the prequels" and my reaction is "peh". I spit it out and declare it the worst since the prequels.

The originals made a mark on modern pop culture. The prequels made a very different kind of mark. I feel like these new ones are simply going to "split the difference".

We'll get Episode IX in 2019, yeah? I predict that in 2029 when folks talk about Star Wars they'll be talking about Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker and X Wings and Death Stars. Maybe a you'll elicit a groan if you bring up Jar Jar Binks or Leia flying trough space. Remember that casino planet in Episode 8?

I fully expect that the legacy of the "Skywalker Saga" will be everyone loves the OT, everyone trashes the prequels and the sequels are seen as "meh". Despite the fact that all 3 trilogies share many common elements.

david75

Foxtrol wrote: »

I'd suspect we'll hear more about him at some point but will possibly have to wait until the next trilogy.

Yeah I’m hoping Rian goes back to the very first force users. Before they have any dogma or Jedi/Sith structure

Saruhashi

The Nal wrote: »

This EMPIRE STRIKES BACK movie doesn’t make any sense at all. So they blow up the Death Star but the Empire’s just like NOT AFFECTED? They can still show up anywhere and do anything? Glad so many rebel pilots sacrificed themselves in A NEW HOPE, I guess. Plus uuuhhhh I don’t think humans can survive in the arctic overnight with just a coat or some animal intestines. It’s called Biology 101. And since when can smugglers use lightsabers?? Oh and I guess now we have ghosts in this universe too. Ugh. To make no mention of the tiny insane frog person who’s apparently the galaxy’s GREATEST JEDI MASTER?! Gimme a break. And while Luke is training, Han and Leia (who have NO IMPACT on the overall plot) get captured in like two seconds, so when Luke goes to rescue them, he’s done his massive grand Jedi training in, what, forty-eight hours?! Makes no sense. And don’t even get me started on this “I am your father” horse****. A whole entire galaxy and Vader JUST HAPPENED to be passing over his freaking ESTRANGED SON’S home planet when he lost the Death Star plans one movie earlier??? SMH. And OHMYGOD the ultimate cheap-ass-machina when Leia just kinda INTUITS they should turn around and go pick up dangling Luke. The franchise has officially jumped the shark. Hoping Marquand can turn it around for Episode VI, but I’m not holding my breath.

I feel like I've told someone I love Salt & Vinegar Tayto and then they've handed me a packet of Prawn Cocktail Tayto and I've said they're gross.

Then in response to this they've dragged me to the Tayto factory in Ashbourne and forced me to watch the entire crisp making process then forced me to watch how the flavoring is created.

Finally I am berated endlessly until I admit that there is almost no difference between Salt & Vinegar Taytos and Prawn Cocktail Taytos and I agree to shut my damn mouth forever.

Lads there are some similarities between ESB and TLJ. WE GET IT!

If you boil classic movies down to basic (and borderline dishonest tbh) one line descriptions then they sound like a big pile of garbage. WE GET IT!

Consider it personal taste. I like ESB but I don't like TLJ.

If you think they are more or less the same thing then fair enough.

Tony EH

DrWu wrote: »

Yep that was cringe! I could live with the idea but the execution was poor. I agree it would have been a perfect send off and lent more weight to Ren's decision not to fire. But then we wouldn't have that great scene at the end with Leia and force luke. Pity it wasn't just filmed better.

I didn't think that was so great either.

I would have much preferred if Luke had actually appeared in person and not some astral projection nonsense.

It's a fake reunion. Plus, when he keeled over from using too much force, I laughed a bit. :pac: If was bloody stupid.

Plus how could Luke actually give Leia Solo's trinket from the Millennium Falcon, if he wasn't physically there?

Goodshape

Foxtrol wrote: »

'it's a jarring uncomfortable and awkward mess because of x, y, z' but in the same breath saying you like movies that have the same 'x, y, z' in them it makes no sense.

I like Monty Python's Life of Brian because it has jokes, the always-affable Python cast, and it pokes fun at religion.

Monty Python's Meaning of Life also has jokes, the always-affable Python cast, and it pokes fun at religion.

I do not like Meaning of Life. It's badly paced. A lot of the jokes don't really land. The 'poking fun at religion' feels a bit forced.


A film is more than the sum of it's "X, Y, Z" parts.

Saruhashi

Sad Professor wrote: »

I was listening to the BBC's Film Programme podcast about the film and Adam Rutherford described the Skellig islands as being off the coast of Scotland. :eek:

Sure, Ireland and Scotland are more or less the same right?

Zubeneschamali

david75 wrote: »

‘It’s an image of the prime Jedi, first of the order, in a state of meditation’

Long, long ago, before the prequels, this was how I imagined what Luke had learned in IV-VI: that there was no dichotomy between dark side and light. Vader was not all bad, and giving way to anger did not doom Luke to forever have his destiny ruled by the dark side or whatever Yoda said.

Obiwan and Yoda were wrong, and Luke could learn from their mistakes and be better.

The prequels showed that the Jedi were even wrongier than I imagined, but they did raise this idea of restoring balance to the force, a prophecy which implies that during the Republic, with the Jedi in power and the Sith in hiding, the Force is out of balance.

This image of the Prime Jedi, with dark on one side and light on the other, suggests we may see this idea again. And with Rey and Kylo the last ones standing, could the resolution be for both to move to the middle?

tylercheribini

I've decided I'm going to become the equivalent of a Jew when it comes to the Star Wars saga from now on, Ill only recognise The Old Testament of the original trilogy and all the subsequent sacrilegious New Testament/s (bar Rogue One which I actually quite liked) can be left to the heretics.

david75

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Long, long ago, before the prequels, this was how I imagined what Luke had learned in IV-VI: that there was no dichotomy between dark side and light. Vader was not all bad, and giving way to anger did not doom Luke to forever have his destiny ruled by the dark side or whatever Yoda said.

Obiwan and Yoda were wrong, and Luke could learn from their mistakes and be better.

The prequels showed that the Jedi were even wrongier than I imagined, but they did raise this idea of restoring balance to the force, a prophecy which implies that during the Republic, with the Jedi in power and the Sith in hiding, the Force is out of balance.

This image of the Prime Jedi, with dark on one side and light on the other, suggests we may see this idea again. And with Rey and Kylo the last ones standing, could the resolution be for both to move to the middle?

Did you read that article a page or two back about George’s idea for episode 7?
I’m a die hard TFA fan but George’s outline for Luke and the Jedi sounds so tasty. Shame we’ll never see it.

Saruhashi

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Long, long ago, before the prequels, this was how I imagined what Luke had learned in IV-VI: that there was no dichotomy between dark side and light. Vader was not all bad, and giving way to anger did not doom Luke to forever have his destiny ruled by the dark side or whatever Yoda said.

Obiwan and Yoda were wrong, and Luke could learn from their mistakes and be better.

The prequels showed that the Jedi were even wrongier than I imagined, but they did raise this idea of restoring balance to the force, a prophecy which implies that during the Republic, with the Jedi in power and the Sith in hiding, the Force is out of balance.

This image of the Prime Jedi, with dark on one side and light on the other, suggests we may see this idea again. And with Rey and Kylo the last ones standing, could the resolution be for both to move to the middle?

I think Kylo is not redeemable though.

In the world of Star Wars the Empire and the First Order have blown up planets killing probably many billions of people.

I kind of feel it's a bit of a cop out. Kind of like saying "well, Hitler liked dogs so is this really about good vs evil?"

I don't think the Sith or The Dark Side is simply a different point of view. The Sith are kind of genocidal lunatics and the Jedi are more pacifistic in nature?

I could maybe get on board with the idea of a Force user who basically wants to hoard all of The Force for himself both light and dark but that couldn't be Snoke on account of the First Order being a bit too enthusiastic about death and destruction.

Even Kylo Ren doesn't work so well as the "grey area" character. He threw his hat helmet in with the First Order who blew up several planets and tried to wipe out the resistance entirely. He also murdered Han Solo.

I dunno how they will play it in Episode IX but I think they balance between Sith and Jedi concept doesn't work very well when most of the Sith we have seen are irredeemably evil.

OwaynOTT

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Long, long ago, before the prequels, this was how I imagined what Luke had learned in IV-VI: that there was no dichotomy between dark side and light. Vader was not all bad, and giving way to anger did not doom Luke to forever have his destiny ruled by the dark side or whatever Yoda said.

Obiwan and Yoda were wrong, and Luke could learn from their mistakes and be better.

The prequels showed that the Jedi were even wrongier than I imagined, but they did raise this idea of restoring balance to the force, a prophecy which implies that during the Republic, with the Jedi in power and the Sith in hiding, the Force is out of balance.

This image of the Prime Jedi, with dark on one side and light on the other, suggests we may see this idea again. And with Rey and Kylo the last ones standing, could the resolution be for both to move to the middle?

So basically, Star Wars does Inside Out.

brevity

https://twitter.com/OnePerfectShot/status/943466441667416064

‘Star Wars: The Last Jedi’ Blu-Ray Will Contain Over 15 Minutes Of Deleted Scenes https://t.co/C8bw3BtpJh https://t.co/Qj5MDfAQe9

PhiloCypher

Kiith wrote: »

Leia's space flying bit was pretty stupid. I guess if you can force pull something, you should be able to force move yourself in space? And you don't die immediately in space, as i discovered recently (not from personal experience thankfully :pac:), so i guess she could have survived.

I had assumed Leia died in the original script, and it was re-written after Carrie Fischer's death. But i'm guessing that's not the case.

I don't have a problem that she could survive vacuum for a short time or that she could force pull herself back to the ship. Where the problem lies, is it just looks kinda daft. Could they not just have had her deflect a dozen torpedos away from the bridge or something more visually interesting ?

david75

This was a good read if you enjoyed the film.

Star Wars: The Last Jedi – Analysing The Misunderstood Masterpiece Of 2017

https://hype.my/2017/149941/star-wars-last-jedi-analysis/

TerrorFirmer

david75 wrote: »

Did you read that article a page or two back about George’s idea for episode 7?
I’m a die hard TFA fan but George’s outline for Luke and the Jedi sounds so tasty. Shame we’ll never see it.

It would have been really, really interesting to see a Lucas Ep7.

I'd have no confidence in it, but at the very least his vision is good and I think we would have gotten a pretty fresh trilogy - none of the recycled Empire v Rebellion stuff.

The prequels had wonderful world building and the core narrative of the Confederency of Independent Systems fighting the Republic all across the Galaxy was quite good.

What Lucas really needed for those movies was to put his ego aside and bring a good writer onboard to bring his vision and story treatment to life in a credible way.

Foxtrol

Saruhashi wrote: »

For me anyway I would say that the prequels inadvertently taught people who previously never cared that much how to pick apart a movie.

As soon as they added "Episode IV - A New Hope" to the original Star Wars there was a question of what happened in Episodes 1, 2 and 3.

My experience of the originals was not that these are movies on which you can do a post-mortem examination. They were legendary movies and growing up you were exposed to them and the massive impact they had on western pop culture. There was never an "i'm going to pick this apart" aspect because there was no platform really on which to do that.

Episodes 1, 2 and 3 came along at pretty much exactly the wrong time. It was 16 years after the originals and it was just when the internet was starting to grow exponentially.

We packed into the theater to watch episode one and came out thinking "what the F did we just witness"? In the mid 80s to early 90s you may have just gone home and talked about it with friends for an hour and then move on while remembering that podracing and darth maul were awesome.

Instead the Internet provided a platform to comprehensively answer "what the F did we just witness" and that was the fate of the prequels.

Put a ten year old in front of the prequels and my experience is that they will enjoy the hell out of those 3 films. Maybe even watching them again and again for a few years. I've seen it first hand.

Then expose those kids to The Internet and watch the online community tell them "see that thing you love? well it's total f**** *** ******* ***** ****** *********". That's the way it goes.

So Star Wars takes a break for a decade or so and then JJ and Disney come in and they have a job to do. They have to make a Star Wars that kicks off a new successful era BUT they have to avoid making something that is seen as just as bad as, or worse than, the prequels.

They punt all of good old George's ideas into the bin and come up with something safe. Something to remind people of the good Star Wars and to redeem, to some extent, the bad Star Wars.

Job done, in my opinion. TFA is lesser than the OT but greater than the prequels. The title of movie might as well be Star Wars Episode VII - Do You Remember STAR WARS? To which the audience response seemed to overwhelmingly be "Hell yeah I remember Star Wars".

Rogue One is kind of the same. "Hey, do you want to know how the Death Star plans were stolen?" Yes. Yes, I do. It looks like Star Wars, feels like Star Wars etc etc.

The problem is that TLJ was supposed to carry on the story and it kind of didn't. I totally get that it's meant to be a deconstruction or a subversion of the Star Wars tropes but it just comes across as WAY too goofy and way too self-aware. Like it's constantly giving a wink to the audience. I GET IT! You are a Star Wars movie but you are also a commentary on Star Wars movies!

It's a movie that is not quite as smart as it thinks it is and this is a bit of a disaster in the context of Star Wars cos it might not be that much of a "smart" story anyway. It's a dumb movie trying to pretend it's hinting at something deeper when you can totally still see that it's dumb.

It has all the same elements of the originals that I like. It has some of the same elements as TFA and RO, which I like.

The thing with The Last Jedi is that despite having those similar elements it's not "the same". It has elements of Star Wars in it BUT it has also added it's own weird twists and turns. Those differences just didn't work, for me.

I could show my grandmother an episode of Friends and she'll laugh away at it . Then show her an episode of Family Guy and she won't laugh at all. I don't get to then turn round and say "what the hell grandma! you seem to like comedy but then I show you more comedy and you don't like it!? I don't understand you!"

The thing I would say is that there are different "flavors" of the various commonalities between the originals and TLJ. Yes, they both have moments that they play for laughs but these moments "taste" different here in TLJ. It's the same with dialogue or plot or even plot holes.

You could point out the similarities between Captain Phasma and Boba Fett and I would say yes but Boba Fett just appeals to me more, for some reason. I don't know why, it just feels different.

Strawberries are 92% water and watermelons are 92% water but I much prefer strawberries. Not only do I not know why, I'll be damned if you are going to force me to eat watermelon!

My point is that TFA and RO are basically "remember Star Wars" and I really love the taste of that.

TLJ is basically "remember the prequels" and my reaction is "peh". I spit it out and declare it the worst since the prequels.

The originals made a mark on modern pop culture. The prequels made a very different kind of mark. I feel like these new ones are simply going to "split the difference".

We'll get Episode IX in 2019, yeah? I predict that in 2029 when folks talk about Star Wars they'll be talking about Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker and X Wings and Death Stars. Maybe a you'll elicit a groan if you bring up Jar Jar Binks or Leia flying trough space. Remember that casino planet in Episode 8?

I fully expect that the legacy of the "Skywalker Saga" will be everyone loves the OT, everyone trashes the prequels and the sequels are seen as "meh". Despite the fact that all 3 trilogies share many common elements.

I agree with a lot of the above but what you've said here is very different to your previous post where it was 'a jarring uncomfortable and awkward mess'. It is understandable to not like aspects of the movie and the turns they decided to take but there's a level of hyperbole when describing them that is difficult to understand when the elements they didn't like were also in the movies they liked, even if it is a different 'flavor'.

What we are seeing on this thread from some posters is (to take from your bolded piece) 'This watermelon is the most disgusting, horrible thing because of its red colour I had to eat and has now ruined fruit for me'. Posters then point out that they just said how much they liked strawberries and the response is 'well I can ignore the fact that it is red' or even that 'a strawberry isn't red'.

david75

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

It would have been really, really interesting to see a Lucas Ep7.

I'd have no confidence in it, but at the very least his vision is good and I think we would have gotten a pretty fresh trilogy - none of the recycled Empire v Rebellion stuff.

The prequels had wonderful world building and the core narrative of the Confederency of Independent Systems fighting the Republic all across the Galaxy was quite good.

What Lucas really needed for those movies was to put his ego aside and bring a good writer onboard to bring his vision and story treatment to life in a credible way.

Absolutely. He seemed happy to let anyone and everyone play in his world in every other medium books to comics but when it came to writing it was his alone. Seems like nobody around him wanted to step in and say reign it in. Which all his peers and colleagues did actually tell him when he was making each of the original films. Brian de palma especially tore into him about it and made him reconsider a lot of it. But he allowed those peers to help him shape it and hone it.

That collaborative openness was definitely gone by the prequels.

Tony EH

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

It would have been really, really interesting to see a Lucas Ep7.

I'd have no confidence in it, but at the very least his vision is good and I think we would have gotten a pretty fresh trilogy - none of the recycled Empire v Rebellion stuff.

The prequels had wonderful world building and the core narrative of the Confederency of Independent Systems fighting the Republic all across the Galaxy was quite good.

What Lucas really needed for those movies was to put his ego aside and bring a good writer onboard to bring his vision and story treatment to life in a credible way.

What the good ship George Lucas needs is a steady hand on the tiller.

That was noticeably absent during the prequels. He was surrounded by sycophants and yes men who merely nodded at every single thing he came up with and were afraid to challenge him, like somebody like Gary Kurtz would have done.

"Jar Jar...he's the key to all this."

"Ya know George, he really shouldn't be...and here's why..."

Saruhashi

Foxtrol wrote: »

I agree with a lot of the above but what you've said here is very different to your previous post where it was 'a jarring uncomfortable and awkward mess'. It is understandable to not like aspects of the movie and the turns they decided to take but there's a level of hyperbole when describing them that is difficult to understand when the elements they didn't like were also in the movies they liked, even if it is a different 'flavor'.

What we are seeing on this thread from some posters is (to take from your bolded piece) 'This watermelon is the most disgusting, horrible thing because of its red colour I had to eat and has now ruined fruit for me'. Posters then point out that they just said how much they liked strawberries and the response is 'well I can ignore the fact that it is red' or even that 'a strawberry isn't red'.

I don't feel like ANH or ESB are jarring uncomfortable awkward messes though.

I feel like The Last Jedi is.

You are portraying this like I've said "I love strawberries because they are red" then I am following that with "I hate watermelons because they are red". That's not what anyone has said though.

Maybe bowls of porridge would be a better analogy?

The prequels are too hot.
The sequels are too cold.

The originals are just right.

Foxtrol

Goodshape wrote: »

I like Monty Python's Life of Brian because it has jokes, the always-affable Python cast, and it pokes fun at religion.

Monty Python's Meaning of Life also has jokes, the always-affable Python cast, and it pokes fun at religion.

I do not like Meaning of Life. It's badly paced. A lot of the jokes don't really land. The 'poking fun at religion' feels a bit forced.

A film is more than the sum of it's "X, Y, Z" parts.

That comparison would only be valid if those complaining about the humour ruining TLJ found the humour in the OT as being the reason why they liked them.

Goodshape

Foxtrol wrote: »

That comparison would only be valid if those complaining about the humour ruining TLJ found the humour in the OT as being the reason why they liked them.

Hm, not really.

Seemed to me that you were arguing "but ANH/ESB had humour too, so how can you hate it now?"

But all things are not equal. The comedy sprinkles in ANH/ESB worked for me. It didn't at all in TLJ.

A cake is more than a list of ingredients. It's in the measurements, the prep, the execution, even the presentation.

It's perfectly okay to like eggs and chocolate and flower in one cake and think they ruined another.

Saruhashi

david75 wrote: »

This was a good read if you enjoyed the film.

Star Wars: The Last Jedi – Analysing The Misunderstood Masterpiece Of 2017

https://hype.my/2017/149941/star-wars-last-jedi-analysis/

I love how the article says it's "the most polarizing movie of the year" but then says most people like it with only a small group hating or disliking it.

Most people love this polarizing thing. Bit of a contradiction there.

Most people love this movie but I think it's misunderstood. OK. So they mistakenly love it? :P

I don't get why "it's a deconstruction of Star Wars" automatically means it's good.

My favorite part I think is the idea that the movie says the idea of good guys and bad guys is a load of nonsense.

Didn't the First Order like blow up a bunch of planets?

The movie literally ends with a scene of objective good taking on objective evil with no grey areas at all.

I don't even know how we could say the Jedi are "wrong" in comparison to Vader and Palpatine or Kylo and Snoke. Clearly these are basically "Nazis in Space" and it's a bit odd that anyone thinks TLJ is "deconstructing" that idea.

The original and ESB are whacky space adventures about good vs evil.

TLJ is a less enjoyable whacky space adventure that pretends to not to be about just good vs evil but actually kind of is.

It doesn't really "deconstruct" anything.